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I was sad they had to undo the changes Colossus underwent, and that they took out Archangelocalypse. I thought it would have been an interesting change to have heroes becoming new long term villains.
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Apr 18, 2014 19:18
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I really liked Gillen's UXM run. - The concept of the Extinction Team was great - the opening arc with Sinister was the freshest he's been in years and I look forward to his reappearance - the Fear Itself tie in was arguably the best part of that whole event - the AvX tie-in was a great use of the Phoenix Five before the end of the event inevitably un-Phoenixed them - the ongoing plot with Unit was interesting and I wish that could have continued - the moral decay of Magik, and her corruption of Colossus was dark as hell but also clever and fresh, and far superior to Bendis's take on Magik where she simply acts like a goth teenager - and Cyclops' rationalization of the events of AvX and his stance on the future and the possibility of redemption, as told in 5 issues of AvX: Consequences, far outshines anything Bendis has done in 20 issues of UXM and 25 of ANXM. Magneto's role in mentoring Cyclops, and their tense but necessary relationship after AvX was also much better realized. So yeah, more Gillen please.
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Apr 18, 2014 19:49
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Yeah, I like Gillen's Iron Man well enough but I would kill to have him back on a major X-title right now.
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Apr 18, 2014 20:10
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I thought Gillen's X-Men was incredibly bland and I didn't particularly like how he wrote most of the characters. I only read the 2nd half of it though (Vol. 2).
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Apr 18, 2014 20:14
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Gillen's Uncanny was great and fresh. I still prefer that "shaken up status quo" over the current "shaken up status quo".
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Apr 18, 2014 21:15
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Yeah Gillen did great work with Uncanny but got stuck with Land for a lot if it. Like he single handily tried to save both Fear Itself and AvX with his tie-ins and with maybe the exception of Aaron's last W&tXM no book has managed to come close to dealing with the Schism as well.
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Apr 18, 2014 21:19
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Looking back on it I don't feel it was the strongest run of something ever, and only when I really think about it do I realize how much Land held it back. It felt too stoic and posed. It felt like it was trying to be cinematic in a shallow way. I loved the ideas, the cast, and a lot of the dialogue. But funny fun stuff like Namor getting nasty with a fish queen was just... ruined by the "seriousness" of the art. Talking poo poo about Land isn't new, but I do feel like his style straight up ruined the atmosphere of the book.
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Apr 18, 2014 21:48
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Frankly, I just want to read 'The Ongoing Adventures of Unit'. Or just more X-Titles drawn by Clayton Crain or Mike Choi. I'm a sucker for both of their art. Unf. 
Shockeh fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Apr 19, 2014 |
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Apr 19, 2014 00:45
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I hated the AvX tie-ins but I hated everything about that event. Overall though I thought his run was pretty good, I really wanted to see where the Unit stuff went.
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Apr 19, 2014 02:07
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I enjoyed his reveal of what he actually planed and the half-hearted company line read when everyone called him out on it. "No AvX was always the planed culmination of the Hope storyline"
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Apr 19, 2014 06:29
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Shockeh posted:Frankly, I just want to read 'The Ongoing Adventures of Unit'. Allegedly Crain used an underage model at one point so he's been blacklisted from Marvel.
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Apr 19, 2014 07:09
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Rhyno posted:Allegedly Crain used an underage model at one point so he's been blacklisted from Marvel. For something erotic, or just in general, because if it's the first, good, but the second seems a little harsh.
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Apr 19, 2014 07:11
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Rhyno posted:Allegedly Crain used an underage model at one point so he's been blacklisted from Marvel. Kind of ironic, considering there's a legitimate problem about mainstream comics having teenage girls drawn like stacked supermodels.
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Apr 19, 2014 08:08
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SirDan3k posted:I enjoyed his reveal of what he actually planed and the half-hearted company line read when everyone called him out on it. They totally meant Hope to become Ignored Teenage X Character 54 rather than something significant? Rereading Messiah Complex, it really reads like she is supposed to be Jean.
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Apr 19, 2014 19:29
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notthegoatseguy posted:They totally meant Hope to become Ignored Teenage X Character 54 rather than something significant? Yeah, she was definitely changed at some point. The 5 lights have been completely forgotten now too and will almost definitely be killed off next time they need to show a villain as a threat. X-teens get completely ignored for a new group of characters the second the book they were introduced in ends.
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Apr 19, 2014 19:38
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That's too bad, Hope is an interesting character. A messiah that nobody likes all that much.
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Apr 19, 2014 19:51
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Didn't they change it because they didn't want 30 something Scott to be lusting after a kid?
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Apr 19, 2014 19:54
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So instead they bring back teenage Jean so EVERYONE can kinda lust after a teenager.
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Apr 19, 2014 19:55
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Chinaman7000 posted:So instead they bring back teenage Jean so EVERYONE can kinda lust after a teenager. In Bendis' defense, it's only been other teenagers lusting after teen age Jean Grey.
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Apr 19, 2014 20:39
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Skwirl posted:In Bendis' defense, it's only been other teenagers lusting after teen age Jean Grey. and teenagers lusting after adult Cyclops.
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Apr 19, 2014 20:40
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Genetic Toaster posted:and teenagers lusting after adult Cyclops. Well, yeah, he's ripped as hell and has that bad boy thing going on.
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Apr 19, 2014 20:44
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So I'm reading the early 2000s xmen run after Morrisons, and its pretty cool; Omega Sentinel, Mystique and Mastermind and Sabertooth kinda coming over to the other side. Crazy future people and all, its a good straight storyline then BAM suddenly everyone's all over the place and Cables running around with a baby and Bishop wants to shoot it. There seemed to be no easing into the Messiah Complex stuff. Its just there.
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Apr 20, 2014 22:53
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twistedmentat posted:So I'm reading the early 2000s xmen run after Morrisons, and its pretty cool; Omega Sentinel, Mystique and Mastermind and Sabertooth kinda coming over to the other side. Crazy future people and all, its a good straight storyline then BAM suddenly everyone's all over the place and Cables running around with a baby and Bishop wants to shoot it. There seemed to be no easing into the Messiah Complex stuff. Its just there. Some of that Messiah Complex stuff had pretext (specifically in the freelancing Cable department) in Cable and Deadpool. But yeah, that's one of my favorite X-Men rosters. Wish more lineups were just a mix of weird instead of "Wolverine/Cylcops + Some Claremeont faves + expendable X-kids who will be dead in 5 years."
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Apr 20, 2014 22:55
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notthegoatseguy posted:They totally meant Hope to become Ignored Teenage X Character 54 rather than something significant? This is correct. I forget who said it (I thought it was Gillen but others disagree) but she was absolutely going to be Jean reincarnated. AvX hosed up a lot of plans though. Dacap posted:Yeah, she was definitely changed at some point. The 5 lights have been completely forgotten now too and will almost definitely be killed off next time they need to show a villain as a threat. X-teens get completely ignored for a new group of characters the second the book they were introduced in ends. Teon just got shot in the newest issue of X-Men.
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Apr 20, 2014 23:20
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Probably Magic posted:Some of that Messiah Complex stuff had pretext (specifically in the freelancing Cable department) in Cable and Deadpool. But yeah, that's one of my favorite X-Men rosters. Wish more lineups were just a mix of weird instead of "Wolverine/Cylcops + Some Claremeont faves + expendable X-kids who will be dead in 5 years." Yeah, I really liked that lineup and I thought it had a lot of potential. It reminded me of the pre-adjective-less team, which was one of my favorite teams.
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Apr 20, 2014 23:44
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Probably Magic posted:Some of that Messiah Complex stuff had pretext (specifically in the freelancing Cable department) in Cable and Deadpool. But yeah, that's one of my favorite X-Men rosters. Wish more lineups were just a mix of weird instead of "Wolverine/Cylcops + Some Claremeont faves + expendable X-kids who will be dead in 5 years." Yea, the lineup of Rogue, Cable and that crew was great. Funny that Masterminds top is exactly the same as the current one worn by Emma. I'll have to track down ether some Messiah Complex trades or something to get the whole story, but I guess I know that the baby is hope, goes off to the future with Cable, comes back, and start starts the whole AvsX thing and she punches Wanda in the face and then joins their powers to vanquish the Pheonix forever. Then she just kinda falls off the map. Marvel did the same thing with Thane. OMG THE MOST IMPORTANT CHARACTER EVER *poof* who? We're busy sticking wolverine into every story. Speaking of Wanda, its kind of heartbreaking at this time with her hiding out in Transia and people who care for her looking for her and finding her, but she has no idea who these people are and what happened. Obviously just another aspect of her mental illness and refusing to take responsibility for what she did. Still seeing Hank and Clint go and be destroyed upon meeting her. Wasn't Children's Crusade her return to normalcy? Also I heard it was terrible. Fear Itself level terrible.
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Apr 20, 2014 23:53
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Children's Crusade was Age of Ultron-level terrible.
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Apr 21, 2014 01:22
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CapnAndy posted:Children's Crusade was Age of Ultron-level terrible. I'd say worse.
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Apr 21, 2014 01:27
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Yea, that was the impression I got from the general discussion. But the major plot points is something about the Wiccan and the other fake Wanda kid going and getting her from Transia and having her restore herself then bring her back and then Scott gets all pissy and says his dumb rear end "this witch will burn!!!".
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Apr 21, 2014 01:46
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There's nothing there relevant for the X-Men mythos other than Wanda returned to the Avengers and Rictor got his powers back. Wanda kids had a pretty cool mini-series written by Kieron Gillen called Young Avengers (v2?), which you may want to check out if you were a fan of his Kid Loki run.
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Apr 21, 2014 02:07
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I thought Children's Crusade started well but maybe it's just love for the characters involved. It lost me pretty quickly, though.
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Apr 21, 2014 02:30
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I liked the original Young Avengers series, and I still have a hard time believing they're also responsible for Children's Crusade. It would've been better off if they just didn't even run the series and just printed what few plot points got advanced. "Scott Lang's back, Stature's dead, Rictor has powers, Wanda is back, okay folks, see you in the other books!"
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Apr 21, 2014 05:46
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Probably Magic posted:I liked the original Young Avengers series, and I still have a hard time believing they're also responsible for Children's Crusade. It would've been better off if they just didn't even run the series and just printed what few plot points got advanced. "Scott Lang's back, Stature's dead, Rictor has powers, Wanda is back, okay folks, see you in the other books!" It's a serious case of being too close to a character, they were blinded by the need to "fix" Wanda to make the story good.
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Apr 21, 2014 05:52
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There is a point where they will move past schism and m-day and all that fallout and part of that will be a "fix" for Wanda, but its going to be part of a whole. I figured that Uncanny Avengers would deal with a lot of this, and it being a mending of sorts between Wanda and Rogue. But nope!
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Apr 21, 2014 09:57
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CapnAndy posted:Children's Crusade was Age of Ultron-level terrible. There's probably a worse individual comic or worse arc somewhere in the pile, but Children's Crusade is a major event blockbusting nine issue snoregasm of lovely retcons, out of character writing and just dogshit everything.
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Apr 21, 2014 11:00
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twistedmentat posted:There is a point where they will move past schism and m-day and all that fallout and part of that will be a "fix" for Wanda, but its going to be part of a whole. I figured that Uncanny Avengers would deal with a lot of this, and it being a mending of sorts between Wanda and Rogue. But nope! You need to wait about a year or so. Children's Crusade was the beginning with needing to absolve Wanda and bring back Scott Lang, for no reason at all. 12 months time it'll be all forgotten and Wanda and Pietro will be both on the main Avengers team.
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Apr 21, 2014 11:34
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You're probably right, but I think it bears repeating CC started (according to wikipedia, I barely remember) in 2010?
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Apr 21, 2014 11:41
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Children's Crusade started early to give it time to finish as it had to lead into AvX which was Marvel's plan to capitalize on the Avengers film and merge the X-Men and Avengers books into one rather than keeping things in their own separate lines and not really crossing over. There were different ideas for it and stuff was put on hold for ages because Marvel gave Heinberg the usual "film/tv writer deal" of not using characters or ideas until the writer "is ready". It's why you had various non important mini's and Bendis trying to do things for years and nothing happening with it. Waterhaul fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 11:45
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Rhyno posted:This is correct. I forget who said it (I thought it was Gillen but others disagree) but she was absolutely going to be Jean reincarnated. AvX hosed up a lot of plans though. Hope was going to be Jean at one point during the planning of Messiah Complex, but IIRC, that idea had been abandoned well before Second Coming, let alone AvX.
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Apr 22, 2014 04:27
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Yeah but she and the lights were supposed to begin the slow trickle of new mutants that they had to retcon away so Cyclops could catch a case of plot born idiocy that was "the phoenix will save us despite all repeated evidence to the contrary. I'm a rebel!"
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Apr 22, 2014 04:31
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