Ultra Street Fighter IV: Street Fighter Minus Tekken

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Ultra Street Fighter IV: Street Fighter Minus Tekken

Fenn the Fool!: Oct 24, 2006; woohoo

I teach a lot of new players and getting blown up by focuses is really common at low levels, so the thing I always tell them is: just charge your own focus. If your opponent lets go early you get a free crumple, and you know when their level 3 will come out so you can backdash (and theoretically whiff punish, but just avoiding the trap consistently is a good place to start). On paper it seems like the player that focused first is forced to backdash to avoid being punished, does that hold up in high level play? Do you think this is good advice for new players?

Fenn the Fool! fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Apr 26, 2014

# ? Apr 26, 2014 20:21

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 07:06

angel opportunity: Sep 7, 2004; Total Eclipse of the Heart

K trying to connect. It's really annoying I have to use my old PS2 hori cause my TE doesn't work on PC. For some reason I cannot slide Chun's legs on these buttons, but I can no problem on the TE

# ? Apr 26, 2014 20:22

Foodahn: Oct 5, 2006; Pillbug

Trykt posted:

Man I would fuckin love if Capcom put out a real strategy guide for USF4, Anniversary-Edition style with each section written by accomplished specialists for that character

That's why I love those PDFs earlier. I'm working on a Vega one right now (I'm not good at Vega but I am an S Tier copy/paster). I don't know enough about the matchups to make it fully fleshed out like the T. Hawk guide though.

# ? Apr 26, 2014 20:26

GET IN THE ROBOT: Nov 28, 2007; JUST GET IN THE FUCKING ROBOT SHINJI

systran posted:

lol... I don't... I will message my friend on Facebook and get a copy to give to you!

Gracias! Trying to do research on the SRK forums is such a slog. It can be tough to sift though actual useful, important information and all the garbage.

# ? Apr 26, 2014 21:09

khorma: Jun 23, 2011

It blows my mind that a Sakura bible exists, and is only circulated through email amongst a small group of individuals

# ? Apr 26, 2014 21:46

bebaloorpabopalo: Nov 23, 2005; I'm not interested in constructive criticism, believe me.

Fenn the Fool! posted:

On paper it seems like the player that focused first is forced to backdash to avoid being punished, does that hold up in high level play? Do you think this is good advice for new players?

It's a guessing game for both players and there's a ton of possible outcomes. Player 1 can focus, and in response Player 2 focuses. Player 1 can backdash without releasing, and Player 2 can whiff their focus and get punished, or vice versa. Or they can both backdash, or Player 1 can dash forward and Player 2 backdashes and Player 1 can punish Player 2's backdash, or vice versa. Or Player 1 can release into Player 2's focus and backdash, and Player 2 releases and gets punished, or Player 1 dashes forward after releasing and gets hit by Player 2's focus. Or he dashes forward and Player 2 dashes either way and Player 1 can punish.

The safest option is almost always to backdash without releasing but this is punishable if somebody dashes forward out of theirs.

# ? Apr 27, 2014 00:09

angel opportunity: Sep 7, 2004; Total Eclipse of the Heart

I got the Sakura Bible, it's less than I thought it was. It's just a list of the optimal combo on each character and also the unblockable/oki setups. Still pretty useful. I will just paste dump it here!

Abel
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (354/504) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (444/684)
-Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), b.Jump, Dash, j.FP -
Adon
- cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (333/456) -- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.MK, FP DP (389/574) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (414/664
) -
Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Pause, RH Oroshi(2hits), f.Jump, c.MP,
j.FP -
Akuma
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (379D/568)
-
- xx cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (355/565
) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP
(416/679) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Pause, RH Oroshi(2hits), f.Jump, c.MP,
j.FP - Unblockable
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -Balrog
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (398/558) -
- cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (354/504) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (444/684)
-
Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), b.Dash, LK Tatsu, j.FP
-
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -
Blanka
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (376/579
) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP
(416/679) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- sweep, s.LP, j.MK - Safe Jump
C. Viper
- cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (333/456) -- cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (355/552) -- xx cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (355/565
) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.MK, FP DP(
425/694) -
Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), b.Dash, LK Tatsu, j.FP
-
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -Cammy
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (379D/568)
-
- xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (374/564) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (
416/679) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), b.Dash, LK Tatsu, j.FP
-
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -Chun Li
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (374/549) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP
(416/679) -
Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- MP DP, j.MK - Unblockable
- f.Throw, c.LP, j.MK - Unblockable
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), f.Jump, c.MP, j.MK - Un
blockable
Cody
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP xx c.MK, FP DP (391/588) -- xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (374/549) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (414/664
) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), f.Jump, Dash, J.FP -
- EX Tatsu, Dash, cl.RH, LK Tatsu - Zonk Safe
Dan
- cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (333/456) -- cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (355/552) -- xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (354/504) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (414/664
) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- Point blank LK Tatsu - Unblockable
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), b.Dash, LK Tatsu, j.FP
-
Dee Jay
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (398/558) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (403/596) -
- xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (404/584) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (444/684)
-
Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- Point blank LK Tatsu - Unblockable
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), b.Jump, Dash, J.RH -- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -Dhalsim
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (398/558) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (379D/568)
-- xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (374/564) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (444/684)
-
Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), n.Jump, Dash, J.FP -
Dudley
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (398/558) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (404/584) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (444/684)
-
Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), b.Dash, LK Tatsu, j.FP
- Unblockable
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -
E. Honda
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (355/552) -- xx cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (355/565
) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (414/649)
-
Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -
El Fuerte
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (398/558) - Risky*
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (379D/568)
-
- xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (354/504) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (444/684)
-
Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- Point Blank LK Tatsu - Unblockable
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), b.Dash, LK Tatsu, j.FP
- Unblockable
Evil Ryu
- cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (333/456) -- cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (355/552) -- xx cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP, FP DP (355/550) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (414/664
) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- Point blank LK Tatsu - Unblockable
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), n.Jump, Dash, J.FP -Fei Long
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (355/565
) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP
(416/679) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), B.Dash, LK Tatsu, j.FP
-
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP - Corner Cross up
Gen
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (354/504) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (414/664
) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), n.Jump, c.MP, j.FP - Un
blockable
Gouken
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (374/564) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (414/664
) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), n.Jump, Dash, J.FP -
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -Guile
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (398/558) -
- cl.MK xx c.FP, FP DP (303/436) -
- xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (312/455) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (444/684)
-
Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), f.Jump, Dash, J.RH -Guy
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (379D/568)
-
- xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (374/549) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP
(416/679) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), n.Jump, c.MP, J.FP -Hakan
- cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (333/456) -- cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (374/564) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (414/664)
-Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), n.Jump, Dash, J.FP -- f.Throw, Dash, j.RH -
Ibuki
- cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (333/456) -- cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (355/552) -- xx cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP, FP DP (353/550) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP
(416/679) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- f.Throw, c.LP, j.MK - Unblockable
- EX DP, dash, LP DP, j.FP - Unblockable
- MP DP, j.MK - Unblockable
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), F.Jump, c.MP, J.FP - Un
blockable
Juri
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (398/558) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (404/584) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.FP xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (444/684)
-
Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- Point blank LK Tatsu - Unblockable
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), B.Dash, LK Tatsu, j.FP
-
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -Ken
- cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (333/456) -- cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP, FP DP (344/522) -- xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (354/504) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (414/664
) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- Point blank LK Tatsu - Unblockable
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), B.Dash, LK Tatsu, j.FP
-
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -M. Bison
- cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (333/456) -- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (379D/568)
-- xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (374/549) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP
(416/679) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), B.Jump, Dash, j.FP -
- EX Tatsu, Dash, cl.RH, LK Tatsu - EX PC Safe
Makoto
- c.LP, s.MP, c.FP xx c.MK, FP DP (315/476) -
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -- cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -
- xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (374/549) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP
(416/679) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -Oni
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (379D/568)
-
- xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (374/549) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (414/664
) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), B.Jump, Dash, j.FP -
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -Rose
- cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (333/456) -- cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (355/552) -- xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (354/504) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (414/664
) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), B.Dash, LK Tatsu, j.FP
-
Rufus
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (374/564) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (
416/679) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), n.Jump, Dash, J.FP -
Ryu
- cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (333/456) -- cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP, FP DP (344/522) -- xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (354/504) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (414/664
) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- Point blank LK Tatsu - Unblockable
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), B.Dash, LK Tatsu, j.FP
-
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -Sagat
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (374/564) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (414/664
) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- f.Throw, Dash, j.RH -
- Sweep, Step Forward, s.LP, j.FP
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), n.Jump, Dash, j.FP -
Sakura
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP, FP DP (344/522) -- xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (354/504) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (414/664
) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), B.Dash, LK Tatsu, j.FP
-
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), f.Jump, c.MP, j.MK - Un
blockable
- EX Tatsu, Dash, cl.RH, LK Tatsu - EX DP Safe
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -Seth
- cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (333/456) -- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx cl.MK xx cl.MK xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (355/565
) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP
(416/679) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), B.Dash, LK Tatsu, j.FP
-
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP - Cross up
T. Hawk
- cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (333/456) -- cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx c.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (354/504) -
- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx c.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (
416/679) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), f.Jump, Dash, J.RH - *M
K won�t cross up*
Vega
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (368/538) -- xx cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (376/579
) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP
(416/679) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), f.Jump, Dash, J.FP - Cr
oss up
- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -Yang/Yun
- cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (362/516) -
- cl.FP, xx s.LP, c.FP xx c.MK, FP DP (361/534) -
- cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (379D/568)
-
- xx cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (376/579
) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx cl.FP xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP
(416/679) -Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), n.Jump, Dash, J.FP -- f.Throw, c.LK, j.FP -Zangief
- cl.FP xx c.FP, FP DP (333/456) -- j.FP/j.hk, cl.MK xx c.FP xx s.LK, FP DP (384/629)
-
Unblockables/Oki/Mixups:
- EX Tatsu, Otoshi(2 hits), n.Jump, Dash, J.FP -

# ? Apr 27, 2014 01:14

Foodahn: Oct 5, 2006; Pillbug

I gotta say that's a strange mix of old terminology (FP) and new (LK).

Actually looking at it now it's obvious more than one person worked on it (roundhouse and HK), yet they've all come to a consensus that the strongest punch button will always be FP.

Thanks though, for posting that.

Foodahn fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Apr 27, 2014

# ? Apr 27, 2014 02:56

bebaloorpabopalo: Nov 23, 2005; I'm not interested in constructive criticism, believe me.

At least they didn't use FK (fierce kick) which is something I've seen before.

# ? Apr 27, 2014 03:31

Static Rook: Dec 1, 2000; by Lowtax

Who are some good Makoto players to look up? I never really used her before, but re-doing her trials and practicing stuff from that Rindokan Bible has got me interested. I'd like to see somebody good use her while I flail away and try to get decent.

Also, looks like her biggest changes in Ultra are to EX Fukiage. It gains the ability to hit standing opponents, but loses some damage and stun. Her U1 also loses some damage. Doesn't seem like too much to adjust to, aside from all the other system changes anyway.

# ? Apr 27, 2014 06:07

Roguelike: Jul 29, 2006; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Haitani is probably the most well known Mak player and he's who I would go watch matches of if I wanted to learn the character. There's probably some American Makotos too, but Americans are, by and large, bad. Don't learn from Americans. Unless you're learning like Rufus. Or Guile. Or Ryu. Maybe Balrog. Zangief. But not Makoto.

The Ex Fukiage change supposedly gives her really good midscreen damage and mixup potential since it's really easy to combo into off pretty much any hit and it leads to a left/right crossup when they land. Some folks are saying it's the best single buff any character got, in a release that made Ken's c.mk hit from like half screen and Condor Spire -2 on block. Oh, and I guess Guy got a 2 frame reversal, that seems like a pretty good buff.

# ? Apr 27, 2014 06:36

cams: Mar 28, 2003

Roguelike posted:

Haitani is probably the most well known Mak player and he's who I would go watch matches of if I wanted to learn the character. There's probably some American Makotos too, but Americans are, by and large, bad. Don't learn from Americans. Unless you're learning like Rufus. Or Guile. Or Ryu. Maybe Balrog. Zangief. But not Makoto.

ETR plays a passable Makoto at WNF and various other tournaments, but I wouldn't recommend studying his play much. He's not BAD but does a lot of very questionable things. If you just want to see her played at that level you can track it down.

# ? Apr 27, 2014 07:15

Mio Bison: Dec 14, 2005; violence is who I am, loser

Haitani's the golden standard but Kelvin Jeon is quite good.

EX Fukiage, Condor Spire, EX Scissors, autocorrect 5f Guile U1 and Evil Ryu's 50 bonus health are all high up there on the "huh" list. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of those tweaked Sentinel-style along with Guy's EX tatsu (supposedly they meant to add two frames of startup, not remove two) when they patch Decapre in. Ken's cr.MK didn't have its hitbox changed, it recovers 3F faster, and as silly as it looks he paid for it with the multihit DP nerf and his setups/EX tatsu escape getting hosed.

# ? Apr 27, 2014 07:17

Partial Octopus: Feb 4, 2006

Speaking of Haitani. Here's a fantastic match featuring him and Juso. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc2fJC-8Se4 Really great play from both ends.

# ? Apr 27, 2014 07:36

Zombiecop: Jul 2, 2007

I played Misse's Makoto during Evo pools last year. He had the grossest setups I've ever seen. I especially liked when he get ground combos against my ex headbutt reversals with meaty axe kicks. IIRC correctly he took top 24.

# ? Apr 27, 2014 07:43

Foodahn: Oct 5, 2006; Pillbug

Foodahn posted:

That's why I love those PDFs earlier. I'm working on a Vega one right now (I'm not good at Vega but I am an S Tier copy/paster).

I put in like 8 hours of work (literally) and I found one that is kinda complete. https://docs.google.com/document/d/16hf3X6-j51TMDccewCCy1OXOOD9jBbySVHphrEnUJ-8/edit

# ? Apr 27, 2014 09:04

polish sausage: Oct 26, 2010

While we are on the topic is kara-karakusa still a thing thats worth knowing? I remember people were making a thing of it when super just came out. I tried to do it recently and it was a bitch. I generally dont have an issue doing karathrows either.

# ? Apr 27, 2014 11:50

Volty: Jul 25, 2013

polish sausage posted:

While we are on the topic is kara-karakusa still a thing thats worth knowing? I remember people were making a thing of it when super just came out. I tried to do it recently and it was a bitch. I generally dont have an issue doing karathrows either.

Definitely. Landing Karakusa is arguably one of the best things you can do as a Makoto, and iirc you can get the range to be kinda ridiculous with the right buttons.

# ? Apr 27, 2014 13:47

Woden: May 6, 2006

systran posted:

edit: O speaking of, since I main Chun and just watched Infiltration using her. Here are things he does that I didn't do before, which I tested out last night and they are really good.

Why does neither he nor that French Chun player ever use ultra? From the matches I've seen they both had plenty of chance to let it rip and carry a juggle to the corner but never did. I haven't played SF4 in forever so I probably forgot who drops out of U1, but it looked to me they were saving it just in case they got a chance to raw punish something later as it likely wouldn't have killed if they comboed it.

quote:

3) He seems to use a lot of meter on stuff like EX SBK follow ups to jumping fierce juggle, or often doing raw EX legs as a frame trap. I still never do this for some reason; it feels like a waste of meter to me and I like having super, but I understand why it's good and should try doing it.

Raw EX legs also does chip, Infiltration also almost always did a meaty fireball with hazanshuu follow up after a knockdown. Pokes and chip seemed to be his MO, having super is cool and all but there a plenty of matchup I remember where I'd rather be walking forward and back to get into the right poke range rather than try charging super.

quote:

4) I almost never see him use st. mk as an anti-air, and I didn't even see a lot of sweep anti-air. In some matchups he was doing jump back RH anti-air, which I have not managed to try in a match because it feels weird as poo poo and I'm so used to anti-airing with st. mk, sweep, cr. mp, and jumping fierce. I think watching how he anti-airs and forcing myself to use those would be a nice step up in my game.

I'd have to rewatch but I honestly think he just doesn't know her AA options well enough and so would rather lose or trade in the air than risk throwing out something wrong.

# ? Apr 27, 2014 16:13

angel opportunity: Sep 7, 2004; Total Eclipse of the Heart

Combo into U1 is usually pretty lovely damage. I think it's usually better to shut down their fireball game and also the other stuff you mentioned. Even if you don't ever land it, since they can't fireball freely once you get it, it's an advantage just having it as a threat.

quote:

I'd have to rewatch but I honestly think he just doesn't know her AA options well enough and so would rather lose or trade in the air than risk throwing out something wrong.

That seems unlikely to me. Chun's ground-based anti-airs are easy to do: st. mk or cr. mp are pretty straight forward, and then sweep you use to punish too-far away jumpins. The air to air stuff Infiltration was doing was harder to know when it would work, and some of them like the jumping roundhouse anti-airs looked almost character specific or specific to certain jumping attacks.

# ? Apr 27, 2014 16:29

Shockeh: Feb 24, 2009; Now be a dear and
fuck the fuck off.

There really is no lower form of life than the Blanka player, is there.

Gouken comedy moment #271,862: Jumpin j.HK st.HP xx EX.Sengokusha dash HK.Tatsu, then having Vega fall out of the Tatsu randomly, tech on fall, and Ultra 2 you for it. -106 frames on block!

# ? Apr 28, 2014 09:58

rednecked_crake: Mar 17, 2012; srsly who wants to play this lamer?

Shockeh posted:

There really is no lower form of life than the Blanka player, is there.

Gouken comedy moment #271,862: Jumpin j.HK st.HP xx EX.Sengokusha dash HK.Tatsu, then having Vega fall out of the Tatsu randomly, tech on fall, and Ultra 2 you for it. -106 frames on block!

There's a 1500pp Blanka I sometimes get in my Endless lobbies who will literally hold down-back for the entire round and mash the poo poo out of up-balls or ex-electricity after a knockdown, so every single round is a slow process of inching him towards the corner, watching out for random slides / balls and anti-airing jump-ins.

I really hate bad players who play defensive. I just want to beat them and kick for a better player, but they drag it out twice as long as it needs to be.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 10:16

Chocobo: Oct 15, 2012; Here comes a new challenger!; Oven Wrangler

The guys I play with are starting to get more serious about SF4, and we've collectively caved in and are ordering fight sticks to take things to the next level. I went with a HORI Real Arcade Pro VX SA Kai after a few recommendations. I should have done this years ago.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 11:44

Static Rook: Dec 1, 2000; by Lowtax

polish sausage posted:

While we are on the topic is kara-karakusa still a thing thats worth knowing? I remember people were making a thing of it when super just came out. I tried to do it recently and it was a bitch. I generally dont have an issue doing karathrows either.

As a scrub and newbie Makoto player, my totally relevant advice is that yes, kara-karakusa is worth it.

Really though, the normal range of a karakusa is throw range, but adding in the kara~ increases it to like two steps away (official technical term). The trick that helped me from that Rindokan Bible was using the input:

F, QCF+LK xx B + HK

The timing is strict, but there's a definite rhythm to it. Makoto will start the F+LK but then step forward and grab before the leg is fully extended. If you start it too close the LK will connect, and if they block it and throw out something quick you're boned. Pulling off a couple of TC1s will (hopefully) get people trained to block the LK and then you can mix the karakara in.

I need to work on keeping up pressure after the Karakusa. Since I still suck I usually just use HP xx HP Hayate for the guaranteed damage. But that leaves the opp. standing and pushed away. If I have meter I'll use EX Hayate to push them to the corner, but that's the extent of my craftiness at the moment. I need to work on my Hayate Cancels but they're a pain to pull off online.

Such is the life of a scrub with no offline scene.

EDIT
Fixed the LK to F+LK.

Static Rook fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Apr 28, 2014

# ? Apr 28, 2014 14:39

angel opportunity: Sep 7, 2004; Total Eclipse of the Heart

I've tried playing online again (I have played offline only for like three years) and I basically cannot do any hit confirms online. As Chun for instance on oki I will do cr. lk OS sweep~cr. lp, then if I see a hit on the first cr. lk I mentally queue up cr. lk xx EX legs; if I see a block I will queue up a frame trap, throw, etc. I basically will never just do the full input without looking at the hit, so even the slight degree of input lag is causing me to almost never land anything. The time I wait to see the hit confirm is just enough to drop the two-in-one portion of the combo. I'm having the exact same problem as Zangief as well. I don't have problems with any of this offline at all.

I've been against some people that are very very good, and they are hit confirming everything with the same latency as me, so I know it's just me not being used to it.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 14:53

Rudger: Feb 20, 2006; i will mess you up

systran posted:

I've tried playing online again (I have played offline only for like three years) and I basically cannot do any hit confirms online. As Chun for instance on oki I will do cr. lk OS sweep~cr. lp, then if I see a hit on the first cr. lk I mentally queue up cr. lk xx EX legs; if I see a block I will queue up a frame trap, throw, etc. I basically will never just do the full input without looking at the hit, so even the slight degree of input lag is causing me to almost never land anything. The time I wait to see the hit confirm is just enough to drop the two-in-one portion of the combo. I'm having the exact same problem as Zangief as well. I don't have problems with any of this offline at all.

I've been against some people that are very very good, and they are hit confirming everything with the same latency as me, so I know it's just me not being used to it.

If you're playing on PC, turn Vsync off. It should feel a trillion times better.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 16:23

angel opportunity: Sep 7, 2004; Total Eclipse of the Heart

Yeah I did turn off vsync, but just the latency alone is throwing me off really bad. I'm on a wired connection too and I'm often getting pretty decent connections for being online...it just is enough to throw all my hit confirms off.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 16:25

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

Well, it took me like 3 hours, but I finally beat someone online :v:

. Also, I was watching the VesperArcade tutorial in the OP, and he says you shouldn't use the shortcut motion for doing DP's - any particular reason why? He said not to but didn't go into it.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 19:21

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

S.J. posted:

Well, it took me like 3 hours, but I finally beat someone online . Also, I was watching the VesperArcade tutorial in the OP, and he says you shouldn't use the shortcut motion for doing DP's - any particular reason why? He said not to but didn't go into it.

I'm sure there are more specific reasons, but for one, they aren't in every game and at some point you may well wish to play another fighting game that makes you do the motion for real. You may well run into some issues with overlapping motions as well, and end up with the wrong move coming out.

The shortcut to dp without standing(df,d,df I think) is an exception, sometimes you gotta do that to anti-air without getting hit.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Apr 28, 2014

# ? Apr 28, 2014 19:24

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

I just picked this up after not playing for a while, used to play super a bit. Why the gently caress can I not land Ibukis target combos anymore :smith:

# ? Apr 28, 2014 21:07

Manoueverable: Oct 23, 2010; Dubs Loves Wubs

I haven't seen it used in most of the exhibition videos or loctest footage so far, but what's the consensus on Red Focus? Doesn't seem like there's been a lot of material on it, so does that mean it's just useless? Considering that I think someone posted a couple of pages ago that people are already adapting vortex strategies for delayed wakeup, it doesn't sound like either of the new mechanics are going to alter the metagame very much.

Note that I'm basing this purely off what little I've seen of Ultra so far, so feel free to correct me if I'm way off base.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 21:18

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

Jesus christ I haven't won a single fight with either Ibuki or Akuma who I used to main what the gently caress is wrong with me.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 22:11

AnonSpore: Jan 19, 2012; "I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

Manoueverable posted:

I haven't seen it used in most of the exhibition videos or loctest footage so far, but what's the consensus on Red Focus? Doesn't seem like there's been a lot of material on it, so does that mean it's just useless? Considering that I think someone posted a couple of pages ago that people are already adapting vortex strategies for delayed wakeup, it doesn't sound like either of the new mechanics are going to alter the metagame very much.

Note that I'm basing this purely off what little I've seen of Ultra so far, so feel free to correct me if I'm way off base.

If nothing else red focus will enable nice new combos for characters who previously didn't have many options outside of just super off a full meter.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 22:14

iPodschun: Dec 29, 2004; Sherlock House

Manoueverable posted:

I haven't seen it used in most of the exhibition videos or loctest footage so far, but what's the consensus on Red Focus? Doesn't seem like there's been a lot of material on it, so does that mean it's just useless? Considering that I think someone posted a couple of pages ago that people are already adapting vortex strategies for delayed wakeup, it doesn't sound like either of the new mechanics are going to alter the metagame very much.

Note that I'm basing this purely off what little I've seen of Ultra so far, so feel free to correct me if I'm way off base.

I haven't seen much about Red Focus' use for absorbing multiple hits but from talk over twitter I've seen people talk about using EX Red Focus cancels off of pokes to get full combos being a pretty good tactic so far. Kim1234, a Bison/Dictator player, was tweeting earlier about doing Scissor Kick into EX Red Focus which sounds pretty awesome but doesn't work at every range.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 23:13

Mio Bison: Dec 14, 2005; violence is who I am, loser

There's some mild vortex stuff kicking around in Ultra like Ibuki doing a jump-in normal or kunai on reaction to you delaying/not delaying but nothing comparable to AE2012. A couple of characters can sometimes work hard to get a setup that's not as good as the one they had before, oh no. If anything delayed wakeup is too good right now.

Two bars is a lot for red focus but you can see people using it as intended to blow through stuff like cr.MK xx fireball and Dictator scissors. It's not immediately, obviously game-changing like DWU but it's a viable tool that hard counters players who mindlessly throw two-hit stuff out at midrange. It's an easy way to maximize damage on a big punish/stun combo too, 50% more damage on a level 3 focus is 200-250 damage for most of the cast.

Three bars is a bargain for EX red focus for characters who weren't already good at converting meters into damage, watch any Ultra Zangitan match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAMFMtZlZXw&t=80s

# ? Apr 29, 2014 00:04

angel opportunity: Sep 7, 2004; Total Eclipse of the Heart

anyone east coast want to play on pc now?

add systranerror

# ? Apr 29, 2014 03:06

Periodiko: Jan 30, 2005; Uh.

S.J. posted:

Well, it took me like 3 hours, but I finally beat someone online . Also, I was watching the VesperArcade tutorial in the OP, and he says you shouldn't use the shortcut motion for doing DP's - any particular reason why? He said not to but didn't go into it.

You need to eventually be able to do proper DP's because walking forward into a DP-motion is an incredibly useful thing to be able to do, but there's really no reason not to use the shortcut if you feel comfortable with it. Not having to break crouch to input a DP is super useful too.

# ? Apr 29, 2014 03:35

Foodahn: Oct 5, 2006; Pillbug

Assuming I can do it reliably, should I always kara-throw?

Non-shortcut DPs are pretty hard for me to do (hitbox) but you'll eventually run into a character where you need strict inputs to beable to perform the move. Shortcuts don't work on T.Hawk's Condor Spire and I think only the crouching shortcut works for Hakan's oil, also removing Vega's mask/claw takes a strict DP as well. I'm sure there are others.

Foodahn fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Apr 29, 2014

# ? Apr 29, 2014 03:39

Mio Bison: Dec 14, 2005; violence is who I am, loser

Foodahn posted:

Assuming I can do it reliably, should I always kara-throw?

The kara input adds an extra frame of startup during which you can't tech (you can even kara yourself into the other dude's throw which is either sad or very funny). 4f can be very different from 3f when people are trying to mash out on you too. If you're ticking off of blocked jabs or similar frame advantage moves there's no reason not to kara throw but it's a bad idea if you're close in at neutral.

Periodiko posted:

You need to eventually be able to do proper DP's because walking forward into a DP-motion is an incredibly useful thing to be able to do

Real men can do real DPs but F->DF->F is hilarious. DP out of loving nowhere.

# ? Apr 29, 2014 04:30

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 07:06

Thwack!: Aug 14, 2010; Ability: Shadow Tag

systran posted:

anyone east coast want to play on pc now?

add systranerror

When I'm not busy with Dark Souls 2 I can definitely play. Add "T H Whack" on GFWL or "ThwackCorp Ltd." on Steam.

Thwack! fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Apr 29, 2014

# ? Apr 29, 2014 05:04

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