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CZE guy in the chat mentioned that they were hoping for tournaments to be up "in roughly 24 hours".
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Apr 27, 2014 23:19
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Thoom posted:Which basically means they're covering their asses and you can do what you want as long as you don't flaunt it and don't blame them if you get screwed. Yeah, this is the correct translation from corporate cover our asses speak.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:35
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Cory was in chat for a bit. Some tidbits:
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Apr 27, 2014 23:58
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Hard to have any faith in those claims when existing stuff isn't working. Get me rock solid tournaments and drafts, then worry about all the other stuff. All I want is to be able to do a draft, and be 99.99% confident I can finish all games in it without them ending due to bugs.
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Apr 28, 2014 00:34
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At least messing around vs. the AI is still fun. Combining The Transcended with Replicator's Gambit leads to all kinds of hilarity.
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Apr 28, 2014 00:53
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Rex said they plan to have tournaments up by mid-tomorrow, barring miracles or disasters.
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Apr 28, 2014 01:01
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Mugaaz posted:Hard to have any faith in those claims when existing stuff isn't working. Get me rock solid tournaments and drafts, then worry about all the other stuff. All I want is to be able to do a draft, and be 99.99% confident I can finish all games in it without them ending due to bugs. Have you ever been in a beta? Everything was working fine in Alpha before we switched to beta and the servers got pounded. It's probably a load issue that they're sorting out. The code is most likely not the problem.
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Apr 28, 2014 01:05
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Karnegal posted:Have you ever been in a beta? Everything was working fine in Alpha before we switched to beta and the servers got pounded. It's probably a load issue that they're sorting out. The code is most likely not the problem. This. The end of alpha was rock-solid. The switch to beta brought a massive surge of people and tested some new systems that hadn't been used before (redeeming codes, actual monetary transactions, etc), which anyone who has any experience with actual honest-to-god beta tests knew would cause instability. Expecting everything to be perfectly stable in the first 4 days of transition from frankly sparsely populated alpha to beta is sheer naivete. Zurai fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 01:41
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Karnegal posted:Have you ever been in a beta? Everything was working fine in Alpha before we switched to beta and the servers got pounded. It's probably a load issue that they're sorting out. The code is most likely not the problem. Yes, I've been in tons of betas. Game being unplayable in the main gameplay modes is not a "Beta". The fact that it was working before is great, but it also means they really don't know what they're doing either. They know the exact number of users that can exist, as they sent out the codes to these people. So load issues = tech incompetence issue. Obviously I have faith in this game, or I wouldn't of backed it. However, I'm not gonna make up fake fanboy excuses for it though. Again, you can't excuse the stuff not working when they're in total control of choosing to launch the beta now with exact knowledge of how many users there could be. There is no surprise here, they had perfect knowledge going in and it still went south. They shouldn't be bragging about AH in 2 weeks in OB in 4 weeks, WHEN PEOPLE CANT EVEN PLAY THE GAME AS IS. LOL!
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Apr 28, 2014 01:44
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Mugaaz posted:They know the exact number of users that can exist, as they sent out the codes to these people. So load issues = tech incompetence issue. These two statements are monumentally, offensively ignorant.
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Apr 28, 2014 01:48
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Zurai posted:These two statements are monumentally, offensively ignorant. Normally I'd tell you to calm down, but you're 100% right here.
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Apr 28, 2014 02:09
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Mugaaz posted:Yes, I've been in tons of betas. Game being unplayable in the main gameplay modes is not a "Beta". The fact that it was working before is great, but it also means they really don't know what they're doing either. They know the exact number of users that can exist, as they sent out the codes to these people. So load issues = tech incompetence issue. Obviously I have faith in this game, or I wouldn't of backed it. However, I'm not gonna make up fake fanboy excuses for it though. Again, you can't excuse the stuff not working when they're in total control of choosing to launch the beta now with exact knowledge of how many users there could be. There is no surprise here, they had perfect knowledge going in and it still went south. They shouldn't be bragging about AH in 2 weeks in OB in 4 weeks, WHEN PEOPLE CANT EVEN PLAY THE GAME AS IS. LOL! Look, you're just wrong. Maybe you should talk to some people who work in the video game industry if you think your genius solutions are going to resolve all of these issues because you'll make a fortune if they do (they won't). In a world where Blizzard backed by EA can't make a launch without server issues, what on earth makes you think that CZE who is operating on a wildly tighter budget is going to overbuy on server infrastructure during beta? Its not that everyone else is a fan boy, it's that you have no idea how operating an online game works. If you don't like it, go away and come back a week after launch. Then you have a right to complain about server stability. Right now you're just coming off as whiny douche.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:13
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Karnegal posted:...you think that CZE who is operating on a wildly tighter budget is going to overbuy on server infrastructure during beta? You mean a beta where they are already collecting money and plan on ramping into open beta as quickly as they possibly can? Well yes, they should.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:26
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Karnegal posted:Look, you're just wrong. Maybe you should talk to some people who work in the video game industry if you think your genius solutions are going to resolve all of these issues because you'll make a fortune if they do (they won't). Holy fanboy Batman. You're right, I'm a douchebag for complaining game in beta is feature incomplete and 100% unplayable. My bad. It's 100% not their fault. They were forced to choose inadequate hardware for a known quantity of players they were inviting. Also, I didn't propose any solutions to any of these issues. No idea what you're referring to. The only thing I proposed is maybe they should work on making the game playable instead of bragging AH and open beta is in 2 weeks to a chat room full of people who can't play the game. I'm obviously insane. Ignore me.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:35
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I imagine they were answering questions that customers were asking them in chat about planned ETAs for those upcoming features rather than bragging.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:45
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Mugaaz posted:game in beta is feature incomplete PvP is feature complete. Tournaments just happen to be down at the moment while they resolve bugs. Magic Online had to take their tournaments offline not that long ago; it happens in MMOs. quote:They were forced to choose inadequate hardware for a known quantity of players they were inviting. Knowing the maximum number of players is only vaguely relevant to knowing the maximum server load. In addition, maximum server load at launch is always vastly higher than maximum server load post-launch, usually by 100% or more. It would be absolutely irresponsible of them to buy enough servers so that literally every player could play tournaments simultaneously, because that is a situation that will never happen and it would be huge quantities of wasted money, which would be passed on to the players. Furthermore, it would be bad to massively increase the servers for another reason: more servers actually increases the complexity of the system and can cause more, previously unfindable, failures. That's why betas of new MMOs gradually increase the number of servers as they go on and invite more people; it lets them solve server instability iteratively instead of jumping into the deep end and having to solve literally ever server problem all at once, leading to the game being actually unplayable for that whole time (as opposed to only one specific element being unplayable, like now). People who aren't programmers have no idea how complex netcode and server architecture is. Aside from maybe manually multithreading a very complicated program, it's the most difficult thing to learn and will always have oodles of bugs that need to be dealt with. The best server and net programmers in the world still make oodles of bugs that cause the servers to crash and hang because it really is that complicated. quote:bragging AH and open beta is in 2 weeks to a chat room full of people who can't play the game. This didn't happen. Maybe you should go back and re-read what was actually said instead of GOING OFF IN ALL CAPS about your fantasy? I actually find it pretty funny that you're not even trying to be honest about the open beta thing, by the way. Just in your previous post you claimed it was supposed to be in 4 weeks, now it's in 2? Nevermind that no date has been given and even Cory (the one who was optimistic about the AH and trading) said several features need to be implemented first.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:52
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Hopefully sometime tomorrow this will all be a moot point and maybe we'll get a few extra boosters out of the tournament downtime.
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Apr 28, 2014 04:06
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I've been in a number of MMO betas and nearly every single one of them has had load/capacity issues, so that is not out of the ordinary. What is strange in this case is why they decided to monetize/soft launch so early on, with several major game features missing (trading/ah/pve/etc), and other parts incomplete. By the time most other MMOs are in the "no wiping" betas, they are basically feature complete and only have load/bugs to work out.
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Apr 28, 2014 04:08
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How about you compare it to Hearthstone closed beta. Hearthstone closed beta was monetized, had random crashes and game breaking bugs and they didn't reimburse poo poo. The only people in HEX closed beta have a giant pile of product, so they aren't pumping them for random packs - if it were open beta, I could see the complaint, but in closed everyone there already has product. As people have pointed out, the game works as well as any comparable game at this stage in development. The issue is severs. If you don't want to deal with reimbursement then gently caress off and do something else for a couple weeks and come back. You kickstarted it, the game isn't out yet, what do you want? You look like an rear end when you get mad that a beta isn't launch ready. The whole point of the beta is working this stuff out for launch. If you don't want to deal with the issues that go along with that process, GO AWAY. Wait until launch and then come back. Then if the game is feature-light and buggy, we'll all support your complaints. Mugaaz posted:Holy fanboy Batman. You're right, I'm a douchebag for complaining game in beta is feature incomplete and 100% unplayable. My bad. It's 100% not their fault. They were forced to choose inadequate hardware for a known quantity of players they were inviting. Also, I didn't propose any solutions to any of these issues. No idea what you're referring to. The only thing I proposed is maybe they should work on making the game playable instead of bragging AH and open beta is in 2 weeks to a chat room full of people who can't play the game. I'm obviously insane. Ignore me. Dude, if you didn't understand kickstarter and you're bitter now, submit a ticket and see if they'll still refund your account. Or just sell it since people are paying over cost for them. Karnegal fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 04:21
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mightygerm posted:I've been in a number of MMO betas and nearly every single one of them has had load/capacity issues, so that is not out of the ordinary. What is strange in this case is why they decided to monetize/soft launch so early on, with several major game features missing (trading/ah/pve/etc), and other parts incomplete. By the time most other MMOs are in the "no wiping" betas, they are basically feature complete and only have load/bugs to work out. The speculation is that the Kickstarter money is running out. Which makes sense; even $3M (being optimistic of their slacker backer proceeds) is a tight budget for an MMO, and they have exceeded their original pre-massive-success timeline.
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Apr 28, 2014 04:26
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Stop feeding the trolls guys. On another topic, I looked at all of those tournament decks someone posted a link to a bit ago. They have crazy amounts of control in them, and far fewer troops than I expected. Is this a common trait of high-end decks? Just whip up enough control to totally freeze the game?
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Apr 28, 2014 04:49
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Afgad posted:Stop feeding the trolls guys. Really pointless to try and judge the metagame of Hex or HS when the entire pool of cards consists of 1 core set and nothing else. Tons of deck archetypes need a certain quantity of cards to exist that just cannot possibly exist in a pool this limited. It's really just a waste of time to try and compare MTG constructed to Hex/HS until those games have a card pool that approaches a normal constructed format.
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Apr 28, 2014 04:55
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Mugaaz posted:Really pointless to try and judge the metagame of Hex or HS when the entire pool of cards consists of 1 core set and nothing else. Tons of deck archetypes need a certain quantity of cards to exist that just cannot possibly exist in a pool this limited. It's really just a waste of time to try and compare MTG constructed to Hex/HS until those games have a card pool that approaches a normal constructed format. I wasn't comparing Hex to anything. I also don't think it a waste of time to discuss what decks are viable. When drafting I want to be able to cherry-pick cards that will help me build a solid constructed deck.
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Apr 28, 2014 05:02
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Afgad posted:Stop feeding the trolls guys. It seems to be the popular strategy right now. I haven't really tried that kind of mega-control deck myself, but I haven't dived into competitive tournaments at that level either. Just messing around in the proving grounds the most consistently winning decks I put together were a fast aggro blood & red orc deck and a blood/white lifedrain/righteous paladin deck with Dimmid.
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Apr 28, 2014 05:06
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^^^ I've played against Righteous Paladin decks several times in drafts and they can be really aggravating. Righteous Paladin and Cosmic Totem are two cards I try always have an answer for.Afgad posted:Is this a common trait of high-end decks? Just whip up enough control to totally freeze the game? Set 1 is considered pretty control-heavy and blue is generally considered the best color, so yeah, control decks are the most popular at the moment. Aggro decks can still win, but (especially in limited) it's an uphill battle. In draft, the strongest decks are either hyper-aggressive red if you get the cards for it or really control and flier heavy blue and/or white decks. Black and green are kind of weak, comparatively. Black has OK-ish control but (aside from Inquisitor and the 3/3 intimidate lifedrain guy) fairly poor troops. Mono-blue artifacts is also extremely strong if you get support for it. It needs at least a couple Pterobots and Plans: War Hulk plus a smattering of decent artifact-centric dwarves and some Time Ripples/Buccaneers/Mesmerizes to buy you time. If you can manage to nab several Hulks and Pterobots plus an Ingenuity Engine and/or Slaughtergear, you're almost certainly going to make it to the finals, in my experience. Zurai fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 05:08
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Afgad posted:I wasn't comparing Hex to anything. I also don't think it a waste of time to discuss what decks are viable. When drafting I want to be able to cherry-pick cards that will help me build a solid constructed deck. I misunderstood. I heard multiple people make complaints in HS about how metagame sucks not enough deck types etc. Most of the time a 1 set meta looks like this: Deck 1- What are the top 10 most powerful cards in the set? What shell can play the most of these cards well? Deck 2- What deck beats Deck 1? I played constructed for a couple weeks in Alpha with a friend and haven't followed it since then. The most powerful deck I could come up with was Pact Of Pain/Life Siphon/Eternal Youth as the engine. Then basically all removal. You just killed their guys, resolved a Pact, then stayed afloat with Eternal Youth. You go infinite on card draw/life pretty quick, but you just want to make enough land drops then Life Siphon to the face 3 times to kill them, which is easy to do with infinite draw. I had trouble finishing games due to bugs, but in the week I played I lost 1 week total to another deck playing Eternal Youth, because I couldnt deal lethal and would of decked out. Looks like they nerfed some of these cards since then, but it doesn't seem to be overwheleming nerf.
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Apr 28, 2014 05:11
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Mugaaz posted:I misunderstood. I heard multiple people make complaints in HS about how metagame sucks not enough deck types etc. Most of the time a 1 set meta looks like this: Yeah, the first few months of alpha were basically "ok, how the gently caress do I deal with a Fist?". Once the AH opens up and I can fill in the holes in my collection, I'd like to play around more with a white/blue card draw deck using The Transcended, Replicator's Gambit, Ancestor's Chosen, etc., plus the incantation of ascendance and eternal youth. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 05:17
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Karnegal posted:How about you compare it to Hearthstone closed beta. Hearthstone was basically feature complete in closed beta, they also tested transactions before they moved to a no-wiping stage. It sucked that they didn't reimburse bugged arenas however, so good on CZE for that. But the state of Hearthstone and Hex when they started taking people's money is miles apart. Take for example trading and the AH, this was not in alpha and when it gets released it will be on the live servers. Major trading bugs could be disastrous and it really doesn't make sense that a key game feature like this will be openly tested for the first time post soft launch. Major issues could require rollbacks or mass reimbursements, neither of which make much sense. Karnegal posted:As people have pointed out, the game works as well as any comparable game at this stage in development. The issue is severs. If you don't want to deal with reimbursement then gently caress off and do something else for a couple weeks and come back. You kickstarted it, the game isn't out yet, what do you want? You look like an rear end when you get mad that a beta isn't launch ready. The whole point of the beta is working this stuff out for launch. If you don't want to deal with the issues that go along with that process, GO AWAY. Wait until launch and then come back. Then if the game is feature-light and buggy, we'll all support your complaints. Again, I'm not bitching that the game is down, no MMO "launch" goes well for the first week or so. The game just seems very unfinished from a feature perspective to be soft launched, compared to other games out there. And I have to play the game at this point no matter what state its in, lest I risk my weekly draft tickets expiring.
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Apr 28, 2014 05:34
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Playing with such a tiny card pool is really weird when you move over from Magic or something similar. I just started Netrunenr a couple months ago, and though I bought all the sets, I've been working up through the core and just adding a data pack occasionally. My Hex experience has been similar to my Netrunner one in that each faction/color has a couple things that it can do, and some things have promise in the future but aren't viable right now. I imagine that we won't see more than 2-3 tier decks in a few months. It's sort of only an issue for the core set because once expansions start rolling the card pool will be changing frequently enough to ward off stagnation, but the gap between the core set and the first expansion will be the biggest gap in the game's lifecycle.
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Apr 28, 2014 05:37
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mightygerm posted:Hearthstone was basically feature complete in closed beta, they also tested transactions before they moved to a no-wiping stage. It sucked that they didn't reimburse bugged arenas however, so good on CZE for that. But the state of Hearthstone and Hex when they started taking people's money is miles apart. That was not my experience with the Hearthstone closed beta. I pretty much stopped spending any real money on the game because I was getting hit by bugs too often until like December. I agree that the lack of testing the AH/trading is a bit weird. I would have assumed that they wanted to see some external testing on that prior to distributing rewards. I assume it's probably a calculated risk. I assume CZE sees Open Beta to be no more than 1-2 month's away and they want the kickstarter backers to be in and generating buzz in advance of open beta. mightygerm posted:
Well, you can always draft and drop if you just want the free packs. If the features aren't there enough for it to be fun, you can essentially just log in, rare draft, and drop. It seems like a totally reasonable approach, and unlike the Alpha, most people won't care if their round one opponent drops and guarantees them prizes.
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Apr 28, 2014 05:42
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Mugaaz posted:Holy fanboy Batman. You're right, I'm a douchebag for complaining game in beta is feature incomplete and 100% unplayable. My bad. It's 100% not their fault. They were forced to choose inadequate hardware for a known quantity of players they were inviting. Also, I didn't propose any solutions to any of these issues. No idea what you're referring to. The only thing I proposed is maybe they should work on making the game playable instead of bragging AH and open beta is in 2 weeks to a chat room full of people who can't play the game. I'm obviously insane. Ignore me. "Maybe they should work on making the game playable?" You mean like... how they worked through the entire weekend on fixing tournaments? Like, I'm really not sure what more you want them to do. Look, I totally understand the sentiment of "the game released too early". I agree, though I think the overall impact of doing so is going to be pretty minor in the long run. But there's no reason to be a dick about it, calling people fanboys and over-exaggerating their counterpoints. There's not much reason to jump on Cory either since I doubt he has experience with servers and couldn't help if he wanted to. The dude just wanted to take the time to stop by and chat and let people know what was going on and give people some neat info to help make up for the issues. It's hard to know what is going on on the business side and what decisions they should have made or whatever. We can speculate endlessly, but what's done is done, and the options are there to bail if you decide that it's too much for you.
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Apr 28, 2014 11:46
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, the first few months of alpha were basically "ok, how the gently caress do I deal with a Fist?". I don't know if it was in this thread or elsewhere, but I saw a neat decklist that let you basically combo infinite turns that basically goes right in your planned deck. Replicator's Gambit a Time Bug, retrieve it with The Transcended, take four free turns. Then go get your Gambited bug again. It's a janky combo, but if it goes off, that's basically game. This was the proposed list: 1 Loregoyle 4 The Ancestors' Chosen 4 Ascetic Aspirant 4 Solitary Exile 4 Mastery of Time 1 Mimic 4 Countermagic 4 Repel 4 Oracle Song 4 Peek 2 Inner Conflict 4 Shards of Fate 11 Sapphire Shard 9 Diamond Shard
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Apr 28, 2014 12:20
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Go RV! posted:I don't know if it was in this thread or elsewhere, but I saw a neat decklist that let you basically combo infinite turns that basically goes right in your planned deck. Replicator's Gambit a Time Bug, retrieve it with The Transcended, take four free turns. Then go get your Gambited bug again. It's a janky combo, but if it goes off, that's basically game. Yeah, I was thinking something more like this: Troops 4x The Ancestors' Chosen 4x Cerulean Mirror Knight 2x Lord Benjamin, the Wise 4x Protectorate Defender [Prime Sapphire of Mind] 4x Time Bug 2x Loregoyle 4x Ascetic Aspirant 4x Bird o' Plenty Spells 4x Replicator's Gambit 4x Stoneskin 4x Air Superiority Resources 8x Diamond Shard 8x Sapphire Shard 4x Shards of Fate Reserves 4x Repel 4x Eternal Youth 4x Inner Conflict I don't know how it would play in practice but it could be fun to mess around with.
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Apr 28, 2014 13:24
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, I was thinking something more like this: Time Bug has always seemed really bad to me. How often does that actually work out in a game? Also, replicator's Gambit is working against ancestor's chosen. You want your deck to be as small as possible with a lot of draw if you're playing gambit, but chosen makes your deck bigger (even if the guys cantrip, you can only cast so many in a turn, eventually you're going to need that mana for other stuff).
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Apr 28, 2014 14:01
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Karnegal posted:Time Bug has always seemed really bad to me. How often does that actually work out in a game? Also, replicator's Gambit is working against ancestor's chosen. You want your deck to be as small as possible with a lot of draw if you're playing gambit, but chosen makes your deck bigger (even if the guys cantrip, you can only cast so many in a turn, eventually you're going to need that mana for other stuff). Transcended is a tutor effect, and it's a constant tutor effect; every card you draw, you get to pick what you draw. The idea isn't to rely on randomly re-drawing the gambit, it's to only use the gambit if you already have a tutor in play. And yeah, Ancestor's Chosen is going to work against any combo deck to some extent, but it does have the draw effect on the specters, and the deck needs some sort of bomb in it and that seemed to fit with the theme due to the draw effect on spectre. The other option might be some Incantations of Ascendance. I mean yeah of course this is a gimmick deck though. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 14:06
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Transcended is a tutor effect, and it's a constant tutor effect; every card you draw, you get to pick what you draw. The idea isn't to rely on randomly re-drawing the gambit, it's to only use the gambit if you already have a tutor in play. The build for this is probably to try and get your Transcended out ASAP, and then use that as a toolbox to lock up the rest of the game. Time Bug/Gambit as one or two-ofs, along with other corner use cards (Eternal Guardian, Eternal Youth, etc) Also, if you're running an Ascetic deck, you need lots of card draw. Might want to look at Secret Lab, for instant speed draw. You'll need a full hand to get to Transcended, so Oracle Song and maybe Bottled Vitae would be good. e: Basically I'm thinking the Enduring Ideal deck from M:tG. I like this idea. I'll try and make a list later. Go RV! fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 15:05
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My favorite deck so far, that I unfortunately haven't been able to fully remake yet since beta, was pretty much entirely troopless, half removal and the other half life drain/zombifying wincons. Champion: Gozzog 3x Solitary Exile 3x Repel 3x Inner Conflict 3x Murder 3x Terrble Transfer 3x Extinction 3x Life Siphon 2x Chimes of the Zodiac 3x Corrupted Afterlife 2x Zombie Plague 2x Pact of Pain 3x Surge Mechanism 3x Soul Marble Basically kill everything and bring 'em back in one fell swoop as a zombie army with Chimed Corrupted Afterlife for 6 2/2s, or 4/4s with Soul Marble, or use Soul Marble as a backup troop if you can't get the zombies, or use Surge Mechanism/Chimes with Life Siphon for an alternate wincon altogether. The only unfortunate thing is it looks like I need more than 24 lands, because you want typically 3-4 lands in your first hand so you can play the majority of your removal, but that's all I have space for, so I wind up going to 64 with more lands. DMW45 fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 16:39
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How long does changing your email take? I put in a ticket on thursday morning, and the only reaction so far has been: quote:Your ticket has been assigned to the next processing level by our team.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:47
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Tamba posted:How long does changing your email take?
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Apr 28, 2014 16:57
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So, I'm looking to actually get started with this now that I have a bit more time. Is there a "Hex deckbuilding for people who are OK at magic" out there somewhere?
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Apr 28, 2014 21:02
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