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The Lies of Locke Lamora is an absolute ton of fun and very low-fantasy, not much supernatural stuff in it at all unless I'm misremembering. I haven't read the follow-up books because I've heard bad things but I absolutely loved this as a standalone. I'm also going to toss out a recommendation for Joe Abercrombie's First Law trilogy, which absolutely fits your criteria of not having lots of extraneous characters and being a good story. It does have some supernatural stuff in it (and it's not really subject to rules) but it's not a dominant element, I wouldn't say.
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Apr 27, 2014 13:45
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VagueRant posted:
It sounds like you like world-building in the sense of alternate history or mysteries but not so much in the sense of "weird" cultures or alien worlds. Is that fair? I second Hieronymous Alloy's recommendation of Guy Gavriel Kay but I would start with Tigana. People I know who aren't really into fantasy tend to love it -- it's got all the political machinations and backbiting a fan of GRRM would crave, it's all character-driven, and it's beautifully written. Lions of Al-Rassan is also good but I don't know if it has the same power to sweep you off your feet and leave you breathless. I think Locke Lamora will probably be right up your alley; it's essentially fantasy Venice, but there's a nice mysterious air around the ruins and artifacts of a dead civilization that the city is built upon. Counterpoint, however -- the "magic" in the story is pretty arbitrary. You might enjoy The Red Knight by Miles Cameron. The author has a background in historical fiction and it shows -- the "culture" is pretty much straight medieval England and there are references to real-world people like Aristotle. There's also a fair bit of magic that is reasonably explained, I guess -- but if you enjoy swords and armor you will definitely enjoy this.
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Apr 27, 2014 14:05
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VagueRant posted:
Welp, I haven't read any of them except for Name of the Wind and Mistborn. Was not a fan of NOTW. It's basically bad anime in reading format. Rothfuss can write amazingly well, and the scenes flow together terrifically, but the overall story is just boring as poo poo, and when it "ramps up" in the second book it's literally just wish fulfillment of how awesome the lead is at sex. Mistborn is... not gonna lie it's pretty good BUT you can easily describe it as fantasy anime as well. I started reading it when I was NOT a fantasy fan. Sanderson has sort of a D&D manual going on in his head, so the descriptions can be a bit dry, and I wasn't a fan of how the last book in the trilogy paid off, but like I said, it was readable and I feel safe recommending it to people who want a fantasy novel of good vs bad with magic in it that kinda makes sense. It's not GREAT, but it's definitely readable. I'm sort of the opposite of you though. I haven't read GRRM, and kinda hate the political aspects of fantasy (also hate GRIMDARKRAPE fantasy but for different reasons) because I like to read to escape, and something like David Gemmell is my go to drug for that. Big guys smashing poo poo with axes and very little political stuff. Best advice I can give you is to keep on with Discworld. 90% of them are good, 60% of them flat out rock, and only like 10% kinda suck. That's going to vary person to person, but the Death stuff is my favorite , guard stuff is my 2nd favorite, followed by Rincewind. The books about the witches or the wee free men are not my cup o tea. I don't plan to read Mazalan because it seems to be a series with no payoff. From the bits I have tried to read it just sort of... meanders around. Dunno if that's cause the sample chapters suck or the book sucks, but it's enough to have me not want to grab em. Not going for Wheel of Time because it's so loving long it's insane, and from what I understand there are entire books you can just ignore because it's a rehash of previous books. I do plan to read Lies one day, just not anytime soon. Nothing against it (it's one of the few books that I haven't spoiled myself on over the years), it's just a bit down the reading list. I read a book or two of the Black Company series, and I gotta say it's more along the lines of Gemmell than any sort of big political thing. It was fairly decent, but just not something I was in the mood for at the time. I do plan to come back to it.
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Apr 27, 2014 14:28
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Not going for Wheel of Time because it's so loving long it's insane, and from what I understand there are entire books you can just ignore because it's a rehash of previous books. Wheel of Time is also fantasy anime in a lot of ways. Think of the middle books as the episodes where Goku and Buu just scream at each other and "power up" for thirty minutes while nothing of importance actually happens.
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Apr 27, 2014 14:47
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Read A Wizard of Earthsea because it's great and it inspired so much else.
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Apr 27, 2014 17:14
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General Battuta posted:Read A Wizard of Earthsea because it's great and it inspired so much else.
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Apr 27, 2014 17:21
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Cardiovorax posted:Just remember to stop after the first three. Tehanu is a steaming turd. That is not true. It is, in some ways, one of the most profound stories in the series. It is safe to say it's very different in tone from the first trilogy. There is a good discussion of why Tehanu was so jarring in the Ursula Le Guin Megathread. While you are absolutely entitled to your own opinion, something is not garbage just because you don't like it.
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Apr 27, 2014 18:22
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You might also want to check out Joe Abercrombie. There's a thread.
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Apr 27, 2014 18:54
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Zola posted:That is not true. It is, in some ways, one of the most profound stories in the series. It is safe to say it's very different in tone from the first trilogy. There is a good discussion of why Tehanu was so jarring in the Ursula Le Guin Megathread.
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Apr 27, 2014 19:21
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VagueRant posted:Malazan Book of the Fallen series (seems super popular but also guilty of a lot of stuff I hate) Malazan: I really like it, but it sounds like it's everything you hate about fantasy. Name of the Wind: An A+ writer telling a C story. I like the worldbuilding, but the main draw here is Rothfuss' prose, because it's nothing special otherwise. I think it's polished, flowing, and the most wonderfully readable prose in fantasy; others think it's overly purple, excessively wordy, and overdone. Those people may have a point. gently caress 'em, though, I still like the books. Wheel of Time: As a fan, I consider these books a guilty pleasure. They're not that good, but I started reading them when I was 13, so I couldn't tell that at the time. Jordon has strong worldbuilding and plotting skills, but his characters fall short of them. Combine the characters with some of his personal issues that keep raising their head in the books and I'd skip these if I were you. Mistborn: Bleh. Wooden characters and an overly technical magic system that's explained with all the subtlety and wonder of a Player's Handbook. The Lies of Locke Lamora: The Lies of Locke Lamora is the best book written in the last decade of SF/F, possibly the last two. If I had to point out any book in the genre and call it flawless, it would be this one. It is fantasy mafioso in fantasy Venice and it is awesome. The sequels fall short of Lies, but really, that was inevitable; every SF/F book in the past decade or more falls short of Lies. They're still good books and worth reading. The Black Company: Read the first three(Black Company, Shadows Linger, The White Rose), skip the rest. The first three are very good and they make up a self-contained arc. The others get a bit weird. These are also some of the most influential books in the genre and they're well worth reading just for that, imo.
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Apr 27, 2014 20:24
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fookolt posted:I forgot about The Revolutions; thanks for reminding me! I also initially thought the whole sentient guns vs trains thing was dumb as hell but I absolutely loved Half Made World. Are there any other weird fiction books that sort of face off chaotic evil against orderly evil like that (if that description makes any sense)? It brings back good memories of Perdido Street Station Not necessarily what you're looking for, but you might like Finch by Jeff Vandermeer and Dream London by Tony Ballantyne, which are both stylistically very similar to Mieville's books. regularizer fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Apr 27, 2014 |
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Apr 27, 2014 22:02
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You should really read the First Law series by Joe Abercrombie. It is really really really good. You can see where he draws upon Lord of the Rings from, but he takes those bits and makes them way better
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Apr 27, 2014 22:14
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Cardiovorax posted:Just remember to stop after the first three. Tehanu is a steaming turd. Nah, I think Tehanu is when the series cements itself as really great. Especially as - Cardiovorax posted:In the context of being a Wizard of Earthsea novel it's utter crap. If you liked the first three books and expect more of the same you'll hate it, because it's a completely different kind of story. As a story of its own it could be a good book, but it isn't, so you may as well pretend the series ended with The Farthest Shore and spare yourself the disappointment. - if you stop at Tehanu you'll never read The Other Wind, which is such a lovely and natural conclusion to the series that it feels like it was planned all along.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:08
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The first book was kinda interesting, earthsea bored me after that and tbh, I think its overrated in a lot of ways. I ended up kind of hating ged by the end of the trilogy (I don't think I ever got round to reading the other one you lot are talking about).
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Apr 28, 2014 00:03
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uberkeyzer posted:You might enjoy The Red Knight by Miles Cameron. The author has a background in historical fiction and it shows -- the "culture" is pretty much straight medieval England and there are references to real-world people like Aristotle. There's also a fair bit of magic that is reasonably explained, I guess -- but if you enjoy swords and armor you will definitely enjoy this. I gave up 50% through The Red Knight because the novel was one battle after another that all melded together into blandness and boredom. I liked the historical basis for the setting but the constant fights were too much. Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:
The Malazan series certainly isn't everyone's cup of tea but I found the endings of Malazan novels satisfying and almost always thrilling; like a Guy Ritchie movie where all the plot threads converge at the end into a great conclusion, both within individual novels and over the series as a whole. The first novel is so weak though I don't usually recommend it to people unless heavily into the genre, and even then it can be a bit much. The Black Company, though, was one ebook I returned after a few days - I was really annoyed at how it's written, skipping over events, for example: "Hey we got to kidnap this guy it's going to be really dangerous!" next line "Boy that was tough, only a few of us died getting him." I would really look at a sample first.
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Apr 28, 2014 04:59
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PlushCow posted:
Yeah, I'm not really going to touch anything else about them but I don't know where anyone could get the idea that Malazan is a series with no payoff. Erikson actually knows how to properly plot and carry out story and character arcs and provide actual payoff to them, it's what puts him miles ahead of the likes of Martin who writes a lot of words whose sum total adds up to jack and poo poo. The series certainly isn't for everyone but the assertion that they have no payoff is  as gently caress to me. The payoffs are how most of us who enjoy the series came to love it.
Oh Snapple! fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 05:21
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regularizer posted:Not necessarily what you're looking for, but you might like Finch by Jeff Vandermeer and Dream London by Tony Ballantyne, which are both stylistically very similar to Mieville's books. Already read all the Ambergris books and while I liked them, I really loved Annihilation. I can't wait for the next one in the series to come out. I'll definitely check out Dream London; thanks!
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Apr 28, 2014 05:42
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VagueRant posted:I wasn't too sure whether to ask for recommendations in here, or in the big rec' thread, but I wanted to ask specifically about the fantasy genre. I've recently finished ASOIAF (bandwagooooon!) and basically given up on LOTR. (I'm not even past Tom Bombadil yet. Oh, you failed where everyone else fails when it comes to LOTR. The first 100 pages of LOTR is commonly known to be rather tedious. Also, it is kinda hard to finish a series (ASOIAF) that will never be finished. gently caress GRRM. VagueRant posted:To help out, I should say that I enjoy the characters and the political side of ASOIAF and the medieval setting. I guess I just really like swords and armour. I used to like JRPGs a lot, but never really dungeons and dragons. That weird generic fantasy - where it's really clichéd and has dragons and dwarves (the kind that aren't like Tyrion Lannister) has never done it for me. Easy, you want Lies of Locke Lamora and Abercrombie. You will also like Brandon Sanderson. The first Black Company trilogy is good and then it goes slightly downhill from there. Also, if you don't like Colour of Magic you have no heart. I read it as a teenager and 20 years later I still enjoy it. Also, I have read everything on your list (well only first Mistborn, cause gently caress Sanderson and his magic systems). What is wrong with me.  Zola posted:That is not true. It is, in some ways, one of the most profound stories in the series. It is safe to say it's very different in tone from the first trilogy. There is a good discussion of why Tehanu was so jarring in the Ursula Le Guin Megathread. I was sorely disappointed by Tehanu as well, so he is not alone of feeling that. The first part of the series is really good and should be read by everyone. Sadly enough, it spoiled me about the rest of LeGuins books, that I never found as enjoyable as Earthsea. On something else, I just finished The Grim Company by Luke Scull based on recommendations in this thread. Sure, it was enjoyable and a good page turner, but it was painfully obvious the author had been massively inspired by Glen Cook and Abercrombie. None of the characters was really interesting or original and the story was more a mash up of "look how cool these characters are". The concept of the world was good, but his execution of the story line was so so. If the sequel gets sterling recommendations here, I might consider it.
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Apr 28, 2014 07:39
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I'm reading Sanderson for the first time (Way of Kings) other than his Wheel of Time books. He's good at setting up try/fail cycles and putting characters into situations with a lot of tension, but when he tries to write witty banter it is so incredibly painful to read. I also find that his physical descriptions are very weak: I never get a real feel for a location, just a bare bones idea of what it is (it's a cavern with water, it's a big field with no grass, it's a plateau, etc.) I'm just about halfway through the first book and still enjoying it though. It's entertaining, but there's still time for me to sour on it. I read the first Earthsea book, and I really didn't care for it. I usually am pretty into the kind of tone where it feels almost like a fable or myth, but it didn't work for me here. It always felt like Le Guin was just telling me what the protagonist felt, or narrating a summary of stuff he did. The "shadow" was too directly and obviously symbolic to me, and by the time I finished it I had almost no interest in reading the second book. I still want to give Le Guin a shot and will probably try one of her scifi novels next.
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Apr 28, 2014 13:33
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Whats weird is he's so bad at "witty" but his regular dialogue is decent enough. Its always the characters you are told are witty that are terrible. Theres plenty of funny dialogue from other characters.
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Apr 28, 2014 13:40
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Hmm...I'm rarely getting "funny," from any of his dialogue or characters, but I agree that he's pretty good at regular dialogue. If anyone hasn't read Way of Kings yet, the most unintentionally hilarious thing is a character who is actually named, "Wit," and all he does it make "witty" jokes that are painful to read because they just come off as forced and trying to be clever.
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Apr 28, 2014 14:56
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Thanks for all the recommendations, guys. The Lies of Locke Lamora has definitely gone to the top of my list thanks to the praise it got here. And Guards! Guards! is up there with it. I'm thinking about The Black Company (glad to hear the first trilogy is enough!) after them since that sounds like it's got some stuff I'm looking for. That's my immediate list, anyway. Sucks to hear the Dark Tower series is so unpopular, but at least I've ordered the one that is apparently the peak of the series! Safety Factor posted:Malazan Book of the Fallen, on the other hand, is pretty much comprised of everything you said you dislike. Crazy names tossed around as if you already know them, magic, ancient races, gods, dragons, etc. Personally, it's my favorite fantasy series overall, but I'm a huge sucker for world building. It has its fair share of flaws and I recognize the series isn't for everyone. John Charity Spring posted:I'm also going to toss out a recommendation for Joe Abercrombie's First Law trilogy, which absolutely fits your criteria of not having lots of extraneous characters and being a good story. It does have some supernatural stuff in it (and it's not really subject to rules) but it's not a dominant element, I wouldn't say. uberkeyzer posted:It sounds like you like world-building in the sense of alternate history or mysteries but not so much in the sense of "weird" cultures or alien worlds. Is that fair? On the other hand, I probably haven't read enough books to really say one way or the other! uberkeyzer posted:You might enjoy The Red Knight by Miles Cameron. The author has a background in historical fiction and it shows -- the "culture" is pretty much straight medieval England and there are references to real-world people like Aristotle. There's also a fair bit of magic that is reasonably explained, I guess -- but if you enjoy swords and armor you will definitely enjoy this. Cardiac posted:Also, I have read everything on your list (well only first Mistborn, cause gently caress Sanderson and his magic systems). What is wrong with me.
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Apr 28, 2014 15:37
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If you read instead of going on the internet you'd be amazed how much you can read. I normally can't do it, but I notice that whenever I go on vacation to my in-laws place in China, where they don't have wifi and one lovely/slow computer, I end up reading like four novels in a week.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:10
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Your immediate list should have First Law on it for sure. Maybe even before Lies. I mean Lies is my favourite fantasy ever I think but your original post just screamed Abercrombie to me.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:13
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VagueRant posted:Thanks for all the recommendations, guys. Another one you might like is The Prince of Nothing by Bakker. Huge caveat: read some of the thread first, link: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3440065 (stuff is mostly spoilered well) because it's more polarizing than Malazan. It does have a lot of politics, and the magic system is slowly explained (although some parts are kept secret for plot reasons). It also has a lot of grimdark and misogyny, and whether it's "makes you think and is there for a reason" misogyny or just the regular variety is one of the big debates about it. FWIW it's worth, I like it, although my feelings have swung back and forth about it over the years. It's not everyone's cup of tea and I am hesitant to recommend it sometimes.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:22
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systran posted:Hmm...I'm rarely getting "funny," from any of his dialogue or characters, but I agree that he's pretty good at regular dialogue. If anyone hasn't read Way of Kings yet, the most unintentionally hilarious thing is a character who is actually named, "Wit," and all he does it make "witty" jokes that are painful to read because they just come off as forced and trying to be clever. That's the point. Wit is the local equivalent of a court jester.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:26
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Jedit posted:That's the point. Wit is the local equivalent of a court jester. Except Sanderson thinks the things he is saying are actually clever and witty, but they aren't.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:28
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VagueRant posted:Ah, there's (probably) nothing wrong with being well read. But I do absolutely wonder where everyone finds the time to read all these series. ASOIAF took me a good six months and I was unemployed for most of that! Weird. I believe the average reading spead is around 60 pages/hour (page being between 250 and 300 words). The first 5 books of ASOIAF together is as such about 71 hours of reading material if you don't take into account that these kinds of books tend to read a lot faster than normal. For it to take you 6 months, you probably read an average of about 23 minutes/day. Of course, that's fine and you can choose your own hobbies, but that's honestly very little. Compaire it to how much time you spend surfing the internet daily on average, or how much time you spend watching tv, etc... edit: pagecount ASOIAF is per wikipedia, which claims it's 4273 pages. Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 16:30
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Shallan is the best example because at least people are annoyed by Wit, everyone just falls over Shallan to tell her how clever she is.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:38
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VagueRant posted:Ah, there's (probably) nothing wrong with being well read. But I do absolutely wonder where everyone finds the time to read all these series. ASOIAF took me a good six months and I was unemployed for most of that! I read in preference to watching TV. I watch an hour or two of TV a week rather than the average, which is 34 hours.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:42
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Speaking of First Law, it's 1.99 on Amazon Kindle edition. Not sure if that's a standard thing; thread got me interested enough to look into and I was pleasantly surprised at how cheap it was.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:45
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VagueRant posted:Thanks for all the recommendations, guys. Chronicle of a wasted youth, for me. I grew up in a household with no cable tv or VCR and a massive library, with a used bookstore that took exchanges within walking distance. Then in college and grad school I got in the habit of taking books to coffee shops and reading while I waited to see if anyone interesting would walk by. Over time my reading speed grew and now I can knock out a thousand pages or so of pulp fantasy in a day pretty easily if I'm not doing anything else. These days I mostly do my reading over lunch breaks with my kindle. Sometimes when a series I really like releases a new book I'll take the day off work and polish it off. More literary reading takes more concentration and time so I have to read those on the weekends, when I have free weekends, which isn't as often as I'd like.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:49
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Phoon posted:Shallan is the best example because at least people are annoyed by Wit, everyone just falls over Shallan to tell her how clever she is. Not really quite so simply. It's expanded more in book two why she does try to be witty and it's obvious that it's mostly commoners sucking up to what is a mid-level noble appearing to be rich. It becomes more visible once she interacts with people of her class/above her class.
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Apr 28, 2014 17:58
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We already argued about this in the Sanderson thread so uh... let's see. Wit isn't trying to be a comedic genius, he just needles people in the easiest way possible, use cheap wordplay when he can. He's a pretty smart guy though, and when he's trying to tell people something he drops the poo poo-flinging-monkey act. Kaladin is broken and angry and Shallan is broken and scared. Both of them use some approximation of humor to bolster themselves. No one ever told Kaladin he's funny, and in WoR when he's interacting with some people from their perspective he came off to me as a bratty rear end in a top hat. No one can really tell Shallan anything because of her status, except Jasnah who tells her multiple times that her humor is bad and she should feel bad.
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Apr 28, 2014 17:59
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Kraps posted:We already argued about this in the Sanderson thread so uh... let's see. Wit isn't trying to be a comedic genius, he just needles people in the easiest way possible, use cheap wordplay when he can. He's a pretty smart guy though, and when he's trying to tell people something he drops the poo poo-flinging-monkey act. Sorry man, Sanderson just has a tin ear for prose, humor and romance. He has other strengths and I actually genuinely enjoyed WoK, but that poo poo he's just not very good at.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:06
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systran posted:Except Sanderson thinks the things he is saying are actually clever and witty, but they aren't. Ever since hearing his sense of humor described as "Mormon dad humor" I just can't not think about that whenever discussion of that stuff pops up.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:11
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Is the theory that he doesn't write a lot of romance into his stuff because Mormonism legit in any way?
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Apr 28, 2014 18:13
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fookolt posted:Already read all the Ambergris books and while I liked them, I really loved Annihilation. I can't wait for the next one in the series to come out. Authority comes out on 6 May (Annihilation sequel). Really awesome to have to wait a matter of months rather than years to read a sequel. Some people here didn't like Annihilation but I thought it was really good. Finch and Annihilation ooze this atmosphere of oppressive paranoia that I find really captivating.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:58
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Kraps posted:Is the theory that he doesn't write a lot of romance into his stuff because Mormonism legit in any way?
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Apr 28, 2014 19:03
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Neurosis posted:Authority comes out on 6 May (Annihilation sequel). Really awesome to have to wait a matter of months rather than years to read a sequel. Some people here didn't like Annihilation but I thought it was really good. Finch and Annihilation ooze this atmosphere of oppressive paranoia that I find really captivating. I really liked it as well. I think it depends on how cool you are with not knowing things about what's really going on. At the end, the sense of mystery about the setting only becomes deeper rather than being lessened and I think not everybody is satisfied by that type of story. I read a lot of short stories in addition to longform fiction, so I think I'm used to sort of being left to fill in a lot of blanks on my own, as a reader. And I am incredibly excited about the whole trilogy being complete within one year. Being a genre fiction fan, I'm pretty burned out on waiting years and years to finish a story. I read that the trilogy has already been optioned for film by Paramount and I'm very curious to see if it actually gets made and if so, if they keep all the characters the same. It would be really exciting to see a sci-fi thriller come out that's an almost entirely female cast (I'm assuming they will put the husband in flashbacks for a film and maybe add in more about the lighthouse keeper, because it's hard to imagine them coming out with a movie like that with only four female characters and no male characters.).
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Apr 29, 2014 04:04
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