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SedanChair posted:I'd just like to point out that this sentiment has been utterly torpedoed by yet another article about a black man writhing to death for an hour by the state's sanction, and another black man lined up to receive the same treatment. nm
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Apr 30, 2014 02:25
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The government shouldn't have the power to look at a nonprofit organization's charter to determine if it's a sham political outfit trying to dodge taxes but it should absolutely have the power to literally kill a person.
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Apr 30, 2014 02:26
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Blindeye posted:As gently caress people who think we should go eye for an eye on every person they believe committed evil acts. What has always struck me is that a (more) humane method of execution exists, yet we don't use it. This suggests to me that execution is more about vengeance than justice, which is pretty hosed up.
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Apr 30, 2014 02:27
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Dr.Zeppelin posted:The government shouldn't have the power to look at a nonprofit organization's charter to determine if it's a sham political outfit trying to dodge taxes but it should absolutely have the power to literally kill a person. Is that state power a conservative state? This matters.
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Apr 30, 2014 02:27
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kaxman posted:What has always struck me is that a (more) humane method of execution exists, yet we don't use it. This suggests to me that execution is more about vengeance than justice, which is pretty hosed up. gently caress that, the only people that should be in prison at all are people that commit physical felonies. As in, did they kill, rape or try and rape or kill another person? No one else should be in prison. The simple answer is, only people that hurt other people go to prison. And physical robbery. Edit: I would of course add public officials that break finance laws and take bribes. gently caress them. Pohl fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 02:30
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Fried Chicken posted:Even if you are ethically OK with the death penalty in theory, I don't see how you can sign off on it in practice given how messed up our justice system is. Yeah, the death penalty is just another way for rich people to kill poor people.
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Apr 30, 2014 02:35
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Meanwhile, the Louisiana legislature moves to make panhandling punishable by up to a $200 fine and six months in jail.
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Apr 30, 2014 02:36
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Fried Chicken posted:Even if you are ethically OK with the death penalty in theory, I don't see how you can sign off on it in practice given how messed up our justice system is. Isn't there some sort of correlation between being white and wealthy and thinking that the justice system is fair?
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Apr 30, 2014 02:37
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Teddybear posted:We might see a revival of death penalty in politics in the next few cycles-- Oklahoma, who was so deadset on killing two inmates that they were going to do a double execution tonight using drugs of unknown provenance after threatening their own Supreme Court, has temporarily delayed the second inmates execution, citing time constraints. a) Uh holy poo poo. b) Wasn't this the case where the Oklahoma judiciary, having bifurcated courts of last resort, clusterfucked a bunch trying to figure out which court properly had it (or rather, each court tried not to be the one to decide it)? Jerry Manderbilt posted:Isn't there some sort of correlation between being white and wealthy and thinking that the justice system is fair? I think this is what you're referring to, and this is the full book on it. The Warszawa fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 02:39
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E: quote is not edit.
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Apr 30, 2014 02:41
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Fried Chicken posted:Even if you are ethically OK with the death penalty in theory, I don't see how you can sign off on it in practice given how messed up our justice system is. kaxman posted:What has always struck me is that a (more) humane method of execution exists, yet we don't use it. This suggests to me that execution is more about vengeance than justice, which is pretty hosed up.
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Apr 30, 2014 02:42
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SubponticatePoster posted:One of the OK guys (not sure if it was the one who just went through hell or not) is set to be executed because he raped and murdered an 11-month old. I read an article today and it seemed to say that their appeal to the OK Supreme Court was not an appeal on fact; the guys were saying "yeah we did what we were accused of." In this particular case I don't have a problem with the death penalty but for gently caress's sake can't the state at least get it right (I mean physically, I'm well aware of the giant racial problem with the justice system applying the death penalty unfairly)? I can't speak to these cases specifically but just because they don't appeal on actual innocence doesn't mean they're accepting their guilt in fact, it's just that getting an appellate court to overturn a sentence on issues of fact is much more difficult than getting it on an issue of law, if you have both of them. But of course, compare this draconian sentence for child rape for a rich white guy - rehab and a suspended sentence.
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Apr 30, 2014 02:44
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New ad from the Employment Policies Institute, which is a "think tank" funded by the restaurant lobby features a fortune teller and Obama. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNvKXjo0Lew
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Apr 30, 2014 02:45
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The kinds of places most interested in humane capital punishment have tended to ban the practice altogether rather than switch off of other methods to inert gas.
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Apr 30, 2014 02:45
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Pohl posted:gently caress that, the only people that should be in prison at all are people that commit physical felonies. As in, did they kill, rape or try and rape or kill another person? well good news, if you commit a nonphysical robbery, like say massive fraud that collapses the world economic system, or rig the market price of food to increase your profits while triggering famines across south east asia, or just outright steal 7 billion dollars, you don't go to jail. At worst, you have to pay back 20% of what you stole, and you can write that off in taxes. Same for poisoning the water supply, or running a fertilizer plant so unsafely it explodes and wipes out a town. Joementum posted:Meanwhile, the Louisiana legislature moves to make panhandling punishable by up to a $200 fine and six months in jail. Reminder that in Louisiana the prison system is so hosed there is a massive financial incentive to up the sentencing and infractions codes to lock up more and more people for longer and longer
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Apr 30, 2014 02:47
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Isn't Louisiana the one with the prison that re-instituted cotton picking for
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Apr 30, 2014 02:51
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GOOGLE-FU: SHAOLIN THEATER When you can snatch the racism from my hand, it will be time for you to leave. You must train the mind and body to face Internet Racism. This can be done through google-fu.  ~TODAY'S GOOGLE-FU SHAOLIN TRAINING~ 1) GIS the following image:  Clayton Lockett (left) and Charles Warner. 2) Read the comment threads for each article listed in the first page of results. Read them with your eyes. Begin!
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Apr 30, 2014 02:52
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SubponticatePoster posted:One of the OK guys (not sure if it was the one who just went through hell or not) is set to be executed because he raped and murdered an 11-month old. I read an article today and it seemed to say that their appeal to the OK Supreme Court was not an appeal on fact; the guys were saying "yeah we did what we were accused of." In this particular case I don't have a problem with the death penalty but for gently caress's sake can't the state at least get it right (I mean physically, I'm well aware of the giant racial problem with the justice system applying the death penalty unfairly)? Lets not kid ourselves here, vengeance has always been part of the justice system and with good reason - that is part of the point. The justice system isn't just about rehabilitation and making sure it doesn't happen again, it is about making the victim feel satisfied with what happened, so they don't saddle up and take their own revenge. The whole codification of law grew out of the idea that you could end the cycle of violence by having an impartial system that did it, rather than having tons of blood feuds. No small part of the legitimacy of the justice system comes from people feeling that they have had revenge, that the person who wronged them has been punished. When you see the "affluenza" kid, or Roman Polanski, or the DuPont family baby rapist, or the wall street banksters get away without being punished, you feel like the system is broken even if those people never break the law again. Vengeance is an intrinsic part of the justice system, and the only way it won't be is if we ever completely change what it is to be human so we don't feel the need for revenge any more. Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 02:54
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Isn't Louisiana the one with the prison that re-instituted cotton picking for yep, Angola
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Apr 30, 2014 02:55
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Raskolnikov38 posted:So Oklahoma cheaped out on every step of this execution then? The end of the NYT article posted:Mr. Lockett did register one final protest of sorts. For his last meal, he requested Chateaubriand steak, fried shrimp, a loaded baked potato, garlic toast, an entire pecan pie and a liter of Coke Classic. His order was denied because its cost exceeded the state’s $15 limit, said Jerry Massie, spokesman for the Department of Corrections. Yep.
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Apr 30, 2014 02:57
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Isn't Louisiana the one with the prison that re-instituted cotton picking for Well, the use of the most famous LA plantation prison for that dates back to the 1870s, with the land being owned by a former confederate general who leased out prisoners from the state to work his lands. Then the lands were taken over by the state in the 1880s and are used to this day.
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Apr 30, 2014 02:58
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kaxman posted:What has always struck me is that a (more) humane method of execution exists, yet we don't use it. This suggests to me that execution is more about vengeance than justice, which is pretty hosed up. Ideally the death penalty needs to be abolished federally and in all 50 states, but at the very least this shitshow should put a nationwide moratorium on all executions and the immediate ban of lethal injection as a "humane" method of execution. People like to think it's clean, quick and painless because it's done with drugs administered by a doctor, when it's just as cruel and gruesome as electrocution when it's done incorrectly. quote:In keeping with the untried drug protocol announced by the Corrections Department this month, Mr. Lockett was first injected with midazolam, a benzodiazepine intended to render the prisoner unconscious and unable to feel pain. This was followed by injections of vecuronium bromide, a paralyzing agent that stops breathing, and then potassium chloride, which stops the heart. "Humane execution" is a goddamn oxymoron. It cannot be done, and it's beyond arrogant to even try. We might as well go back to using the guillotine or literally blowing people away. As barbaric and gruesome as these methods are, they at least pretty much guarantee an instantaneous death and give those who vigorously support the death penalty what they really want.
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Apr 30, 2014 02:59
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Fried Chicken posted:well good news, if you commit a nonphysical robbery, like say massive fraud that collapses the world economic system, or rig the market price of food to increase your profits while triggering famines across south east asia, or just outright steal 7 billion dollars, you don't go to jail. At worst, you have to pay back 20% of what you stole, and you can write that off in taxes. Same for poisoning the water supply, or running a fertilizer plant so unsafely it explodes and wipes out a town. Those guys too! There is a lot of room for those people. I think you get what I mean. But, yeah, I would have to be narrow minded and restrict the people I let into my prison. You have to be pretty bad to get in here.
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Apr 30, 2014 03:03
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Ideally the death penalty needs to be abolished federally and in all 50 states, but at the very least this shitshow should put a nationwide moratorium on all executions and the immediate ban of lethal injection as a "humane" method of execution. People like to think it's clean, quick and painless because it's done with drugs administered by a doctor, when it's just as cruel and gruesome as electrocution when it's done incorrectly. quote:One wretched fellow slipped from the rope by which he was tied to the guns just before the explosion, and his arm was nearly set on fire. While hanging in his agony under the gun, a sergeant applied a pistol to his head ; and three times the cap snapped, the man each time wincing from the expected shot. At last a rifle was fired into the back of his head, and the blood poured out of the nose and mouth like water from a briskly handled pump. This was the most horrible sight of all. I have seen death in all its forms, but never anything to equal this man's end
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Apr 30, 2014 03:05
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death posted:One wretched fellow slipped from the rope by which he was tied to the guns just before the explosion, and his arm was nearly set on fire. While hanging in his agony under the gun, a sergeant applied a pistol to his head ; and three times the cap snapped, the man each time wincing from the expected shot. At last a rifle was fired into the back of his head, and the blood poured out of the nose and mouth like water from a briskly handled pump. This was the most horrible sight of all. I have seen death in all its forms, but never anything to equal this man's end. Always one of my favorite stories. In a horrible way of course. :/ Pohl fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 03:09
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The Warszawa posted:I can't speak to these cases specifically but just because they don't appeal on actual innocence doesn't mean they're accepting their guilt in fact, it's just that getting an appellate court to overturn a sentence on issues of fact is much more difficult than getting it on an issue of law, if you have both of them. I'm aware of the DuPont case and if we actually had a *justice* system and not just a penal system he'd be in the same place as Warner.
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Apr 30, 2014 03:24
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Isn't Louisiana the one with the prison that re-instituted cotton picking for The entire south did that the best they could after Reconstruction ended.
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Apr 30, 2014 03:27
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Kiwi Ghost Chips posted:The entire south did that the best they could after Reconstruction ended. Yeah, I know. The North hosed the south and made it so hard to be real. In fact, the North hosed the South so hard they can't believe they got hosed that hard. Blah, you Southern fuckers got off easy. Pohl fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 03:30
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GlyphGryph posted:Ugh. Why do people think this bullshit is an improvement over, like, a firing squad or better yet the guillotine? This is probably obvious, but contemporary execution methods have everything to do with sparing the tender feelings of the public and allowing advocates of the death penalty to insist there's no connection between them and the barbarism of the past. The guillotine would be far more humane than lethal injection or the gas chamber, but those methods are considered "modern" and "scientific" while the guillotine is seen as a relic.
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Apr 30, 2014 04:03
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SubponticatePoster posted:What I read specifically said they never contested their guilt, at least implying they were like "yeah we did this we just don't want to be executed in a lovely manner." Now the original article I read has been sort of cannibalized by the update and the details aren't there or I would post them. Every article I read about these two before today specifically mentioned that the man convicted of raping the 11 month old maintained his innocence throughout, so I assume them "not contesting their guilt" is because appealing that way was faster/more likely to result in postponement.
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Apr 30, 2014 04:06
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Pohl posted:Yeah, I know. The North hosed the south and made it so hard to be real. Louisiana isn't really even that high for private prisons though: 
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Apr 30, 2014 04:07
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Would you really want to be in a California public prison?
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Apr 30, 2014 04:14
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Kiwi Ghost Chips posted:Would you really want to be in a California public prison? A California private prison would have the same funding available as the public one minus some percent profit. I look forward to the death penalty case making it to the Supreme Court and Thomas coming up with something like "When the constitution was written if there was a botched execution it was the duty of the presiding officer to administer a coup de grace. So do that, dummies."
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Apr 30, 2014 04:23
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Man found guilty of murder after killing two kids who broke into his house. Oh but you see he was clearly looking to kill someone with his gun and hoping someone broke in so he could gun them down. Totally different from chasing someone through your neighborhood or shooting someone in the face through your screen door because you see those other guys deserved it.
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Apr 30, 2014 04:25
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FAUXTON posted:Man found guilty of murder after killing two kids who broke into his house. Also Minnesota vs Florida.
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Apr 30, 2014 04:27
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FAUXTON posted:Man found guilty of murder after killing two kids who broke into his house. Holy poo poo that guy is loving crazy  quote:Prosecutors said Smith's plan was set in motion on the morning of the killings, after Smith saw a neighbor whom he believed responsible for prior burglaries drive by. Prosecutors say Smith moved his truck to make it look like no one was home, and then settled into a chair in his basement with a book, energy bars, a bottle of water and two guns.
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Apr 30, 2014 04:32
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FAUXTON posted:Man found guilty of murder after killing two kids who broke into his house. loving good. And it looks like Minnesota has a judicially imposed duty to retreat in some home invasion cases even though it has the castle doctrine in statute. So it's different than Florida's lovely loving law.
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Apr 30, 2014 04:35
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Jagchosis posted:loving good. And it looks like Minnesota has a judicially imposed duty to retreat in some home invasion cases even though it has the castle doctrine in statute. So it's different than Florida's lovely loving law. Why am I not surprised. Thank Christ. This whole thing was an amazing horror show. Now that man is somewhere he can't hurt anyone anymore.
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Apr 30, 2014 04:39
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Fried Chicken posted:You realize they caught the actual killer, right? And that he had tried to get 2 other women in an identical way, but only Levy was unable to get away. I know people like to point out stuff like Scarborough's intern dying in suspicious circumstances, but this is a serial rapist and attempted serial killer who actually did the deed.
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Apr 30, 2014 04:44
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The purpose of humane execution is to make it easier on the executioner.
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