Emanuel Collective posted:

I'm absolutely a dog person, but living in Chicago means my choices are cats or bust

Baloogan posted:

politically-loaded dogs

Tommah posted:

This map shows WV touching the ocean.

Tommah posted:

This map shows WV touching the ocean.

Count Roland posted:

Here is a BBC map about Taliban areas, and unlike most of these maps it covers both Afghanistan and Pakistan.


They seem to have almost equal territory on either side of the border. This is because Taliban roughly equals the Pashtun people in many cases; here's a map of their distribution from wikipedia:



The border is called the Durand Line, and was drawn in the late 19th century largely as part of Great Game politics between the British and Russian Empires. Russia was expanding southwards, Britian wanted to protect India, so Afghanistan was drawn up as a sort of buffer state. Pakistan inherited the border, and Afghanistan still doesn't recognize it.



The border remained utterly porous, even during the wars of the 80s, 90s and 00s when various military forces sought to control access to the border. Since its basically the same people living on either side, people who for centuries and longer have had little respect for outside rulers, it seems set to remain a disputed place for a long time.

PittTheElder posted:

The fact that the ISI seems content to use the Taliban as a tool of their influence in Afghanistan doesn't help either.

lullelulle posted:

Patter Song posted:

Are there maps of this nature for time periods other than the first 15 years of the 20th century?

Count Roland posted:

Yes. And it isn't just convienience here, the ISI were instrumental in the creation of the Taliban and their successful conquest of the country during the chaos of the 90s. They helped the Taliban at the highest levels and provided them with ammo and trucks and supplies and more. Despite the Taliban being a destructive force inside Pakistan as well, the ISI will probably keep backing the Taliban as a hedge against Indian influence.

TheIllestVillain posted:

It wasn't just the ISI, there were reports of uniformed Pakistani troops fighting alongside the Taliban back in 96 when Kabul fell. The Taliban had tried to take the city on their own a year earlier but they were easily repelled by the Northern Alliance.

TheIllestVillain posted:

It wasn't just the ISI, there were reports of uniformed Pakistani troops fighting alongside the Taliban back in 96 when Kabul fell. The Taliban had tried to take the city on their own a year earlier but they were easily repelled by the Northern Alliance.

Sucrose posted:

But isn't the Pakistani Taliban currently trying to overthrow the Pakistani government, that's why they keep setting off all those bombs? Maan, Afghanistan/Pakistan is so complicated.

Sucrose posted:

But isn't the Pakistani Taliban currently trying to overthrow the Pakistani government, that's why they keep setting off all those bombs? Maan, Afghanistan/Pakistan is so complicated.

quote:

“To be honest, the Taliban commanders and groups on the ground in Afghanistan couldn’t care less what’s happening to their Pakistani brothers across the border,” said Mr. Strick van Linschoten, who has interviewed many current and former members of the Afghan Taliban.

In fact, the recent attacks of the Pakistani Taliban against Pakistan’s government, military and police, in anticipation of the army’s current campaign into the Pakistani Taliban’s base in South Waziristan, may have strained relations with the Afghan Taliban, said Richard Barrett, a former British intelligence officer who tracks Al Qaeda and the Taliban for the United Nations.

The Afghan Taliban have always had a close relationship with Pakistani intelligence agencies, Mr. Barrett said recently. “They don’t like the way that the Pakistan Taliban has been fighting the Pakistan government and causing a whole load of problems there,” he said.

DrSunshine posted:

They should bring back the practice of drawing countries as caricatures of people / animals. It's a lost art that seems to have died with the First World War.
EDIT: Content

Negative Entropy posted:

Afghan Taliban and Pakistani Taliban are not the same thing.

Hell, it's amazing the two groups haven't fought each other to follow the general trend of chaos in the region.

Sucrose posted:

Thanks, that does really clear it up for me. So, if I'm understanding right, the Pakistani Taliban are a more recent ideological outgrowth of the Afghani Taliban, but who consider the Pakistani government not Islamic enough, and are trying to overthrow it rather than being supported by it, and this has caused a break in ties between them and the Afghani Taliban. Right?

DrSunshine posted:

They should bring back the practice of drawing countries as caricatures of people / animals. It's a lost art that seems to have died with the First World War.
EDIT: Content

Negative Entropy posted:

Yes. The Afghan Taliban focus on their own nation and the Pakistani Taliban focus on theirs.
The Pakistani/Afghan Taliban split reflects the nationalist, decentralized nature of most Islamic extremism that was touched upon in the Power of Nightmares. Islamic extremism very rarely has a grandiose, multi-national element to it like al-Qaeda and is usually more decentralized. Even al-Qaeda is becoming more nationalist in scope.

TheIllestVillain posted:

Is there a reason why hasn't unification been more of a thing among the Taliban groups? Considering they're both entirely composed of ethnic Pashtuns, i've always wondered why they never formed some kind of Islamised "Pashtunistan" nationalist movement or at least expressed some kind of irredentist sentiment.

Disco Infiva posted:

If I have to guess, probably tribalism that is throwing a wrench in a broader Pashtun nationalist movement.

Pakled posted:

Related to that "state pride" map I posted a while back



Source

Pook Good Mook posted:

Not really surprising about no one wanting to leave the relatively well-off rural states like the Dakotas, Maine, NH, Iowa, Idaho, Oregon.

You aren't in a city so life is peaceful, they generally have good public schools, you are surrounded by friends and family, and the jobless rate is low. Unless you have an inherent wanderlust those states can be a great place to live your life.

Ras Het posted:

Or, to put it more simply, you're the kind of megabore who never saw a reason to move to a city near an international airport, so of course you're happy to stick to loving your cousin.

Ras Het posted:

Or, to put it more simply, you're the kind of megabore who never saw a reason to move to a city near an international airport, so of course you're happy to stick to loving your cousin.

Pakled posted:

Related to that "state pride" map I posted a while back



Source

khwarezm posted:

So are Maryland, Connecticut and Illinois just basically tartarus?

Pakled posted:

Related to that "state pride" map I posted a while back



Source

Pook Good Mook posted:

..... I literally just said I live in Los Angeles. What the hell are you on about?

Ras Het posted:

Or, to put it more simply, you're the kind of megabore who never saw a reason to move to a city near an international airport, so of course you're happy to stick to loving your cousin.

Ras Het posted:

Or, to put it more simply, you're the kind of megabore who never saw a reason to move to a city near an international airport, so of course you're happy to stick to loving your cousin.

Count Roland posted:

Yeah, at the core of Pashtun culture is their fierce independence. They've been fighting off invaders for a few thousand years, and otherwise will fight each other. The terrain plays a huge role: the whole area is highly mountainous. It is simply very difficult for a central authority to rule places that are so darn difficult to reach. There are many villages in Afghanistan (and probably Pakistan as well) that have never effectively been governed by anyone.

Obliterati posted:

I read somewhere (might've been Reddit) about US Marines who showed up in an Afghan village in the invasion and the villagers thought they were Soviets.