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deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

The worst part of my catalyst-only run was Shaded Woods and Shaded Ruins because I refused to just run through and slogged my way first through an area where I had to manual-aim without binocs against a bunch of invisible enemies (binocs got me backstabbed) and then Shaded Ruins where I had to plink lion warriors down with 33 damage soul arrows, and then Shaded Ruins again with harder enemies so I could get the attunement slot ring.

:argh:

It made me stop playing for a couple days.

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Party Plane Jones
Jul 1, 2007

by Reene
Fun Shoe

Mystic Mongol posted:

There are three problems with SM instead of SL as a mechanic.

First of all, it punishes bad players by bumping them up ranks. Because it's souls obtained (and not souls spent, which would be way better) if I get on a roll, pick up 100k souls, and then die twice, I find myself in the big boy pool with all those people who didn't die like a chump, which means they're higher level than me AND better at the game.

If I remember correctly if you actually fully lose souls via not getting to your bloodstain before you die again it just resets your soul memory to your previous one minus what you lost on hand. Could be wrong though.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Nah it's just total souls obtained, it doesn't deduct souls from your total if you lose them. So if you buy a lot of stuff or die a lot you'll start getting paired off with higher level players. Which can work both ways, on the one hand if you're summoning people in to help they'll be stronger and more capable but invaders will be much tougher. Of course, if you're really as bad as all that it's not like it would make a difference anyway.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Man this game is bigger than I expected. Got through where I needed, then holy gently caress Shrine of Amana. That pissed me off for a while because homing spells and I want to just explore with a torch because the water is too dark to see.

Oh and then I guess from the castle onward it's just a series of you pushing forward to find Vendrick? Right now I'm at the Crypt, which is pissing me off in that room where bell rings and I get swarmed.

The Gorp
Jan 7, 2013

My style is impetuous,
My defenses are impregnable
My arms are tired

Umberger posted:

Yes. Bosses might take a while to kill and certain enemy swarms will be a major boring kite-fest, but yes.

Did you not have the Binoculars? That area isn't bad at all when you can just pick dudes off.

The issue was range and the final stretch, other notable terrible areas included anything with shield holding enemies.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters
I have some kind of...thing on my back. I'm guessing it hast to do with the infested spider dudes in Tseldora. How the gently caress do I get it off it's annoying to look at.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007

Theory chat: Don't think it has to be spoiled but w/e

So, Chanellor says Vendrick has been around since longer than anyone can remember, and he defeated the four great old ones. It sounds like then he gave or they took those souls from him, and eventually Vendrick just got so soul sick he lost his mind, mixed with Nashandra's abyss fuckery (hell, Ornstein was abyssy, She is, the tower defenders, and the guy who defended him.)

Does anyone else think that it's likely Vendrick = DS1 player character from some timeline?

Also, I think there might be something there with the throne of want, and the kilm of the first flame. They're both structurally similar in a fashion. Nashandra wants to basically take your souls for her own, and is basically protecting the throne, where you can lock yourself in.

I also think there's some time travel poo poo going on with the Kilm or something. Also it implies that DS1 was ancient, but this is even more the case, where we've moved from balistae and huge doors to magical genetic engineering, and fleets of ships. So the world is advancing technologically, and Mirrah is absolutely probably in a 15th century state of some kind.


I wish I knew wtf the point of the Map room is though.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.


College Slice

Sober posted:

Man this game is bigger than I expected. Got through where I needed, then holy gently caress Shrine of Amana. That pissed me off for a while because homing spells and I want to just explore with a torch because the water is too dark to see.

Oh and then I guess from the castle onward it's just a series of you pushing forward to find Vendrick? Right now I'm at the Crypt, which is pissing me off in that room where bell rings and I get swarmed.

You're actually pretty close to finding Vendrick. Get the ring of the king, then you unlock the three big metal doors. One leads to a boss fight you should probably do sooner rather than later, one is back in the Forest of Fallen Giants, and one's in the shaded woods.

You're in the last half, certainly! But you've got a ways to go.

Umberger
Jan 24, 2010

Captain Oblivious posted:

I have some kind of...thing on my back. I'm guessing it hast to do with the infested spider dudes in Tseldora. How the gently caress do I get it off it's annoying to look at.

Did you acquire a certain ring recently? One belonging to a guy named Gower?


Sober posted:

Man this game is bigger than I expected. Got through where I needed, then holy gently caress Shrine of Amana. That pissed me off for a while because homing spells and I want to just explore with a torch because the water is too dark to see.

Oh and then I guess from the castle onward it's just a series of you pushing forward to find Vendrick? Right now I'm at the Crypt, which is pissing me off in that room where bell rings and I get swarmed.

Yes and no. Also it depends which room you mean. If you mean the one you fall into, go in there and immediately kill the Hollows, then destroy the ghost-spawning gravestones ASAP. If you mean the long hallway, look under the stairs and kill that guy before going into the hall.

Elysiume
Aug 13, 2009

Alone, she fights.

GreenBuckanneer posted:

Theory chat: Don't think it has to be spoiled but w/e

So, Chanellor says Vendrick has been around since longer than anyone can remember, and he defeated the four great old ones. It sounds like then he gave or they took those souls from him, and eventually Vendrick just got so soul sick he lost his mind, mixed with Nashandra's abyss fuckery (hell, Ornstein was abyssy, She is, the tower defenders, and the guy who defended him.)

Does anyone else think that it's likely Vendrick = DS1 player character from some timeline?

Also, I think there might be something there with the throne of want, and the kilm of the first flame. They're both structurally similar in a fashion. Nashandra wants to basically take your souls for her own, and is basically protecting the throne, where you can lock yourself in.

I also think there's some time travel poo poo going on with the Kilm or something. Also it implies that DS1 was ancient, but this is even more the case, where we've moved from balistae and huge doors to magical genetic engineering, and fleets of ships. So the world is advancing technologically, and Mirrah is absolutely probably in a 15th century state of some kind.


I wish I knew wtf the point of the Map room is though.
The flow of time was always distorted in Lordran.

Also I took the Old Dragonslayer to be someone wearing Ornstein's gear rather than Ornstein himself. Maybe one of the undead from Lordran made their way into Drangleic after obtaining Ornstein's armor and dabbling in black magic. I haven't been able to find any evidence that really points one way or another, other than the movesets being similar.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.


College Slice

Tallgeese posted:

Anyone who edits their save while not connected to Steam is not going to be touched, at least not by Valve (From adding in basic save sanity checking is another story). That is why VAC alone is useless against the dudes who ruin other people's Soul Memory, which is really the most pressing issue.

Unless of course they are completely stupid and do their character editing while online with VAC on. So I guess it'll weed out total imbeciles.

What the hell, I volunteer. I'll make some numbers changes, and we'll see how long it takes Valve to catch on to my bullshit. I've already got a VAC infraction on my account, I might as well do something to deserve it.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Umberger posted:

Did you acquire a certain ring recently? One belonging to a guy named Gower?


Yes and no. Also it depends which room you mean. If you mean the one you fall into, go in there and immediately kill the Hollows, then destroy the ghost-spawning gravestones ASAP. If you mean the long hallway, look under the stairs and kill that guy before going into the hall.

Don't follow this advice, this is a Bad Idea. Those hollows respawn infinitely, and fast. You can't break the bell, but you can just leave the room fast. They won't follow you into the hallway and it wraps around to a lever that opens a shortcut to the left and to the right is the boss room. Just remember to check under the stairs.

Tallgeese
May 11, 2008

MAKE LOVE, NOT WAR


Mystic Mongol posted:

What the hell, I volunteer. I'll make some numbers changes, and we'll see how long it takes Valve to catch on to my bullshit. I've already got a VAC infraction on my account, I might as well do something to deserve it.

Just turn off CE (or your tool of choice) after you're done, exit the game, turn the game back on, and then turn your connection and Stea online mode back on (that's what I mean by "offline").

They really have no way to tell at that point. All they have to go on is the save, and if the save is loading, how are Valve going to know? Hence why From needs save sanity checks.

Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 05:12 on May 4, 2014

Trilin
Dec 15, 2009

Ah! There he is!
I wouldn't worry too much about soul memory inflation from dying a bunch because everyone kinda stinks at the start but your next character is always a hundred times more optimally played than the first. The system somewhat encourages making new characters and I can see that being hit and miss with some people.

Umberger
Jan 24, 2010

Manatee Cannon posted:

Don't follow this advice, this is a Bad Idea. Those hollows respawn infinitely, and fast. You can't break the bell, but you can just leave the room fast. They won't follow you into the hallway and it wraps around to a lever that opens a shortcut to the left and to the right is the boss room. Just remember to check under the stairs.

You can break the gravestones, not the bell. I never said otherwise. "You can just leave the room fast" is good advice but if you have never completed the zone before you don't know which of the four ways is the right one (it's the wider one with a line in the center of its path) and if you try to run into even one wrong hallway it can get you killed easily.

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?
Should I restart my character, who is at Soul Memory 20,000,000? Or should I just keep on playing since people will eventually catch up.

Meat Recital
Mar 26, 2009

by zen death robot
When is a good time to fight Old Ornstein? I tried him a few times around when I got to No-man's Wharf, and I didn't feel at all ready.

Plum Chaser
Jul 2, 2011

by Lowtax

Manatee Cannon posted:

Don't follow this advice, this is a Bad Idea. Those hollows respawn infinitely, and fast. You can't break the bell, but you can just leave the room fast. They won't follow you into the hallway and it wraps around to a lever that opens a shortcut to the left and to the right is the boss room. Just remember to check under the stairs.

Not really a bad idea, especially since there's some pretty decent loot in that room. I'd recommend throwing on a ring of life protection, since you might get swarmed - just run for the big gravestones. They don't respawn.

bef
Mar 2, 2010

by Nyc_Tattoo
I'm assuming Ring of Life protection will save me in a No Death run?

Elysiume
Aug 13, 2009

Alone, she fights.

bef posted:

I'm assuming Ring of Life protection will save me in a No Death run?
Nope.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Umberger posted:

You can break the gravestones, not the bell. I never said otherwise. "You can just leave the room fast" is good advice but if you have never completed the zone before you don't know which of the four ways is the right one (it's the wider one with a line in the center of its path) and if you try to run into even one wrong hallway it can get you killed easily.

I know you didn't say you could break the bell. The point is that you won't have time to break more than maybe one of the graves before the hollows spawn again and ring the bell, and the phantoms spawn as soon as you attack the graves anyway. It's really obvious which way is the right way to go as the hallway is larger and brighter than the dead ends. If you just stand around trying to break the graves, you might get one but then you'll inevitably die anyway. It's best to deal with that room after you've used the lever.

White Phosphorus
Sep 12, 2000

If you infuse a +10 weapon will it make it go back to +0 so you have to upgrade it from scratch again?

Plum Chaser
Jul 2, 2011

by Lowtax

Tallgeese posted:

Just turn off CE (or your tool of choice) after you're done, exit the game, turn the game back on, and then turn your connection back on (that's what I mean by "offline").

They really have no way to tell at that point. All they have to go on is the save, and if the save is loading, how are Valve going to know? Hence why From needs save sanity checks.

I think they're mostly using VAC to catch things like trainers and other poo poo that directly affect the game during live play, the kind of people like someone reported earlier who had infinite stamina/health etc.. Someone logging off, giving himself a million souls and logging back on probably doesn't do too much as he'll be way higher soul level than whoever else. Of course there's some things that'll still directly influence pvp (being able to buy unlimited lifestones/resins/upgrading weapon/etc), but can you really keep CE running while having frozen your HP/Stamina or whatever?

Other then that, they really need to fix their gently caress up with VAC.

bef
Mar 2, 2010

by Nyc_Tattoo

Great :shepicide:

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

GreenBuckanneer posted:

Theory chat: Don't think it has to be spoiled but w/e

So, Chanellor says Vendrick has been around since longer than anyone can remember, and he defeated the four great old ones. It sounds like then he gave or they took those souls from him, and eventually Vendrick just got so soul sick he lost his mind, mixed with Nashandra's abyss fuckery (hell, Ornstein was abyssy, She is, the tower defenders, and the guy who defended him.)

Does anyone else think that it's likely Vendrick = DS1 player character from some timeline?

Also, I think there might be something there with the throne of want, and the kilm of the first flame. They're both structurally similar in a fashion. Nashandra wants to basically take your souls for her own, and is basically protecting the throne, where you can lock yourself in.

I also think there's some time travel poo poo going on with the Kilm or something. Also it implies that DS1 was ancient, but this is even more the case, where we've moved from balistae and huge doors to magical genetic engineering, and fleets of ships. So the world is advancing technologically, and Mirrah is absolutely probably in a 15th century state of some kind.


I wish I knew wtf the point of the Map room is though.

The Chosen Undead is long dead and has nothing to do with the events of DS2 dead dead dead, threw himself on the First Flame.

Read the Sublime Bone Dust yo. This isn't terribly ambiguous at all.

404notfound
Mar 5, 2006

stop staring at me

Freja's one of the great souls, right? For some reason, her soul in my inventory just looks like a regular one, instead of the big, orange one that the other three great souls are.

Elysiume
Aug 13, 2009

Alone, she fights.
Dying as a phantom also counts as dying, for the purposes of a no-death run.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

404notfound posted:

Freja's one of the great souls, right? For some reason, her soul in my inventory just looks like a regular one, instead of the big, orange one that the other three great souls are.

Technically, the dead dragon in her boss room is the great soul. Freja herself isn't. If you examined the glowing puddle you're good.

Tracula
Mar 26, 2010

PLEASE LEAVE

404notfound posted:

Freja's one of the great souls, right? For some reason, her soul in my inventory just looks like a regular one, instead of the big, orange one that the other three great souls are.

Look up in her arena and look at the red spot on the floor after you beat her.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

404notfound posted:

Freja's one of the great souls, right? For some reason, her soul in my inventory just looks like a regular one, instead of the big, orange one that the other three great souls are.
Oh yeah and it "drops" on the floor and you have to examine it. So I actually had to run back (die a few times) to that room to EMBRACE that soul.

extremebuff
Jun 20, 2010

Woah woah wait, soul memory is based on souls gained instead of souls spent? :psyduck: what the gently caress From

Graviija
Apr 26, 2008

Implied, Lisa...or implode?
College Slice
I have to admit, when I had heard you guys talking about the dual cestus build, I assumed it was some gimmick that was basically meant to make the game more difficult with crummy weapons.

I was wrong. I just killed the Pursuer in NG+, in the first rooftop encounter, by beating the poo poo out of him. Then I beat the poo poo out of the Last Giant (which is admittedly not very difficult, no matter what weapon). Good times.

Spooky Bear Ghost
Sep 17, 2010

lets get spooky

Graviija posted:

I have to admit, when I had heard you guys talking about the dual cestus build, I assumed it was some gimmick that was basically meant to make the game more difficult with crummy weapons.

I was wrong. I just killed the Pursuer in NG+, in the first rooftop encounter, by beating the poo poo out of him. Then I beat the poo poo out of the Last Giant (which is admittedly not very difficult, no matter what weapon). Good times.

I did that but got bored so I'm becoming a Manikin :getin:

I plan on invading the Looking glass knight fight :twisted:

E: relating to the looking glass fight, I thought about wearing his armor and his weapons so He pops out a baby version of himself :v:

Spooky Bear Ghost fucked around with this message at 05:24 on May 4, 2014

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money
Uh did I screw up benhart's questline? I summoned him for prowling magus, looking glass knight and throne watcher/defender. But when I got to the memory of orro he didn't give me his stuff then the mist kicked me out and he vanished.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



You can revisit the memories as many times as you wish, so go back and check again maybe.

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

I may be missing the obvious here... but what the gently caress is he doing in a memory anyways?

FutonForensic
Nov 11, 2012

Dandywalken posted:

I may be missing the obvious here... but what the gently caress is he doing in a memory anyways?

He's probably just doing everything that you're doing in his own timeline, just like the many other "chosen undead". I guess the dimensions still cross even in weird memory portals.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.


College Slice

Tallgeese posted:

Just turn off CE (or your tool of choice) after you're done, exit the game, turn the game back on, and then turn your connection back on (that's what I mean by "offline").

They really have no way to tell at that point. All they have to go on is the save, and if the save is loading, how are Valve going to know? Hence why From needs save sanity checks.

Too late!

Babyface Mingo posted:

I think they're mostly using VAC to catch things like trainers and other poo poo that directly affect the game during live play, the kind of people like someone reported earlier who had infinite stamina/health etc.. Someone logging off, giving himself a million souls and logging back on probably doesn't do too much as he'll be way higher soul level than whoever else. Of course there's some things that'll still directly influence pvp (being able to buy unlimited lifestones/resins/upgrading weapon/etc), but can you really keep CE running while having frozen your HP/Stamina or whatever?

Let's find out.

So, I really enjoyed low level bellbro stuff, but I've basically ranked out of that tooth and claw, full suit of armor or two weapons but not both style desperation fighting you get at the low levels. You know how it is... you win a few dozen rounds, and suddenly everyone's got fancy gear. You go up to rank 2, and even though your build hasn't changed, you're seeing a lot more boss weapons. You beat the end boss, and everyone you fight has top tier spells and weapons. I don't think it's fair that my SM should be adjusted upwards 38,400 for my unspent souls.



Whups, did I say 38,400 souls? I was off by 1,600,000 souls. Well, it's an honest mistake. Also they're not reflected in my SM, which is odd. I wonder how that happened.



There, my SM has dropped by 2,400,000, somehow back to the roughly 400K it was at when I started bellbroing. That's fair! I haven't changed much since then, and it's mostly fashion issues. Everyone knows Fashion Souls is the real endgame. Why am I wearing those ugly clothes? Lighting resist or something, I don't remember. I should change into something more appropriate for low level PvP.



And the 55 Twinkling Titanite that fell off the back of a truck should help. Havel's Gear isn't that good, a few upgrades to bring it up to parity with other equipment options should even things out and let me have that low level, low gear combat that I've been missing.

Note that all these mysterious changes happened while I was online and connected to the servers and to steam. But I'm still a level 173 character now that I spent those 1.6 million free souls. Surely if there's any error checking at all the game won't match me with level 40s and 50s.



Here's one grey phantom invading my world, wearing low level equipment, with a straight sword enchanted with magic weapon. She's decked out in NPC gear, having committed a sin by murdering a friendly NPC to get a slight advantage in these bitter PvP fights. But I'm just too sneaky for her... in the rock paper scissors of Dark Souls II, magic weapon straight sword loses to full +5 Havel.



And here's a dude with the stats to wear a chestpiece or carry a huge halberd, but not both. I find it fascinating how people try to squeeze as much capability out of a character as possible with as few souls as possible, although the manditory SM boost for winning means you can't really sustain a good build. Not pictured: I also summoned a red phantom to fight me, and got invaded by a red phantom, both of whom certainly appeared to be SM 400K characters. One of them had a 100% resist physical shield! I had to stab him a good five times for the lightning chip to kill him.


So, if there's any cheat detection running on Dark Souls II at all, I should be banned pretty quick. After all, that's a 130 level gap, plus max equipment, stats at a level literally impossible at that SM, and I've played online at a SM 2.4 million higher than I just played now, which should set off some kind of red flag or other. I'll check in once every two days or so and see how it goes.

:siren: Disclaimer: I won't actually continue to haunt multiplayer with this character. I suppose that means that leader-board-based cheat checking won't detect me? But I'm not willing to cheat in a few hundred matches just to see if anyone notices, four fights was already pushing it. Those poor, poor phantoms.

Wild Knight
Mar 27, 2010

Foul villain! I do not flee. I will never turn my back on you and run away!

[he says, running away]
So wait, does GeDoSaTo VAC-ban you or not, because I've been looking at this nexus mod all weekend (it's just Zelda textures, don't worry) and was wondering if rolling a Link character would be more viable in this game than the first because you can actually use swords in your left hand now, but if I might get VAC-banned for it theeeen it probably wouldn't be worth it.

ninja edit bahaha posted right after that huge cheat experiment, I feel awkward now.

Wild Knight fucked around with this message at 05:47 on May 4, 2014

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Tracula
Mar 26, 2010

PLEASE LEAVE

Wild Knight posted:

So wait, does GeDoSaTo VAC-ban you or not, because I've been looking at this nexus mod all weekend (it's just Zelda textures, don't worry) and was wondering if rolling a Link character would be more viable in this game than the first because you can actually use swords in your left hand now, but if I might get VAC-banned for it theeeen it probably wouldn't be worth it.

ninja edit bahaha posted right after that huge cheat experiment, I feel awkward now.

Wow that actually looks really nice. I was expecting basically crap and someone to copy-paste textures from Ocarina of Time.

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