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He beat up jobbers for how long? What happened that he was deemed worthy of PPV title shots, did they just have nobody else?
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May 5, 2014 11:47
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Didn't think we could top this one. Was I ever wrong.
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May 5, 2014 11:49
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Bigass Moth posted:He beat up jobbers for how long? What happened that he was deemed worthy of PPV title shots, did they just have nobody else? I know Cena was injured in the tail-end of 2012, and their next guy was Ryback. Then Punk got injured so we got Shield/Hell No and Ryback at TLC.
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May 5, 2014 11:51
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Bigass Moth posted:He beat up jobbers for how long? What happened that he was deemed worthy of PPV title shots, did they just have nobody else? According to wiki, he beat The Miz, who was IC champ at the time, in a non title match, then challenged CM Punk. Vince was involved in the storyline and forced Punk to choose between Cena or Ryback for a title defense, Cena backs out to let Ryback get the shot and he's in the main event. On the bright side, the storyline eventually got The Shield debuted.
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May 5, 2014 11:52
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Bigass Moth posted:He beat up jobbers for how long? What happened that he was deemed worthy of PPV title shots, did they just have nobody else? Cena was injured and they were going into Hell in a Cell for the title. Punk was on his whole "Respect" thing and pissed that he wasn't getting any and he apparently STILL needed to beat Cena, who seemingly had unlimited title shots, which he inherited from Batista I assume. Anyway, since Cena was hurt, and Ryback was a face and over, Cena said that since Ryback hated Punk, and Punk got to choose his opponent, he should choose Ryback over Cena (Punk's only condition for giving Cena the match was Cena calling him the Best in the World) And then because they didn't want Punk jobbing because they were using his title reign to build up to Cena/Rock II, they jobbed out Ryback... constantly. He lost 6 PPVs in a row, because after Punk they put him against the Shield, who of course, beat him. And then he lost to Mark Henry at Mania. Who the gently caress knows why. But by then he was dead, they turned him heel and put him against Cena, and the matches were... okay I guess but with dumb finishes to the Last Man Standing match (No contest. This is the first LMS Cena has had that I remember being bad.
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May 5, 2014 11:53
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Why did Curtis Axel fail as a singles push? He seemed like a cocky heel with Heyman to support his promos - was it simply because he debuted against HHH?
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May 5, 2014 17:05
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His first couple 'wins' were versus a match stoppage vs HHH and John Cena counting himself out to run after Ryback. His previous gimmick had a lovely name and was lame, too. I think people were also expecting more out of the next Heyman Guy and were just disappointed when it turned out to be Michael McGuillicuty. He also just got beat around by Punk as a stand in for Brock. I like him with Ryback now though so hey it's a net win 
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May 5, 2014 17:07
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I think Curtis would do better if he grew his hair long, dyed all the hair on his body blonde, and wore a multicolored singlet.
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May 5, 2014 18:23
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Axel's problem was that he was treated as the 4th wheel in CM Punk's feud with Paul Heyman, and never meant to be anything more.
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May 5, 2014 19:10
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Remember when HHH slapped him really hard and he didn't do anything about it.
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May 5, 2014 19:34
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Remember when Triple H beat up Axel so hard that Triple H gave himself a concussion?
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May 5, 2014 20:38
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I watched wrestling in two eras: as a little kid from ~1992 until WM12, and then as a teenager from the tail end of 1998 until about 2002 (I guess I lost interest again after WM18). Recently I got Network, and I just watched WM30 and then Extreme Rules. The latter's main event got me thinking about the Attitude Era, because of the god-awful backstage stuff. Is the Attitude Era roundly looked down upon? I know there was a lot of awful, awful things that happened on TV and PPV then (I Quit at RR99; every time King said "PUPPIES"; Mae Young giving birth to a hand). On the other hand, is anyone outside of Bryan even close to the likes of Austin, Rock or Foley in terms of popularity? There was also a great midcard scene and a small but brilliant tag division. So maybe it was an era of bad booking saved by a great roster? Sorry if this turned out not really being a question.
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May 5, 2014 20:54
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Why was Harley Race given the 'King' gimmick (later passed to Haku, Duggan, Savage, etc) in WWF? It seems like an odd fit for an old-school tough guy who was more than a little rough around the edges. Was there any extra pay/prestige attached to it or was it just a gimmick for its own sake?
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May 5, 2014 20:57
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In the sequence of John Cena's Five Moves of Doom, I know that I've seen people counter the Flying Shoulder Block by ducking it and having him just go sailing out of the ring. I've seen people counter the Five Knuckle Shuffle at both the taunt and the "dust shoulder off" point. Of COURSE everyone counters the AA. So, why do people insist on throwing the haymaker after the second Flying Shoulder Block if people have kayfabe scouted the rest of his repertoire? I don't know that I've ever seen the Side Slam countered, like, ever. Has anyone interrupted the sequence at the Side Slam?
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May 5, 2014 21:04
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Wise Fwom Yo Gwave posted:In the sequence of John Cena's Five Moves of Doom, I know that I've seen people counter the Flying Shoulder Block by ducking it and having him just go sailing out of the ring. I've seen people counter the Five Knuckle Shuffle at both the taunt and the "dust shoulder off" point. Of COURSE everyone counters the AA. Punk's interrupted it with a side headlock takeover a couple times. I think Orton interrupted it with a European Uppercut once.
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May 5, 2014 21:06
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St Evan Echoes posted:I watched wrestling in two eras: as a little kid from ~1992 until WM12, and then as a teenager from the tail end of 1998 until about 2002 (I guess I lost interest again after WM18). Recently I got Network, and I just watched WM30 and then Extreme Rules. The latter's main event got me thinking about the Attitude Era, because of the god-awful backstage stuff. If you're watching a late 90s PPV with no context, don't expect much outside the main event unless it's something obviously great on paper. There are too many short matches crammed into every card.
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May 5, 2014 21:06
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St Evan Echoes posted:
I'd put Cena before Bryan in terms of comparison.
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May 5, 2014 21:16
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flashy_mcflash posted:Why was Harley Race given the 'King' gimmick (later passed to Haku, Duggan, Savage, etc) in WWF? It seems like an odd fit for an old-school tough guy who was more than a little rough around the edges. Was there any extra pay/prestige attached to it or was it just a gimmick for its own sake? They weren't in a position to recognize his body of work outside the WWF but wanted to give him some prestige so he won a King of the Ring tournament (not on TV) and kept the gimmick.
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May 5, 2014 21:17
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One of Russo's trademarks is giving everyone a feud or something to do. This means you get 50 backstage segments a show and 50 matches on a card that last 3 minutes each.
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May 5, 2014 21:18
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Rusty Shackelford posted:They weren't in a position to recognize his body of work outside the WWF but wanted to give him some prestige so he won a King of the Ring tournament (not on TV) and kept the gimmick. Thanks! Was there ever any discussion about making him more of a 'tough guy' heel? I remember what a surprise it was to find out how tough Race was after having known only his King persona.
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May 5, 2014 21:19
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Rusty Shackelford posted:They weren't in a position to recognize his body of work outside the WWF but wanted to give him some prestige so he won a King of the Ring tournament (not on TV) and kept the gimmick. And then Hogan murdered him and he went to heaven.
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May 5, 2014 21:20
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oldpainless posted:I'd put Cena before Bryan in terms of comparison.
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May 5, 2014 21:22
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flashy_mcflash posted:Thanks! Was there ever any discussion about making him more of a 'tough guy' heel? I remember what a surprise it was to find out how tough Race was after having known only his King persona. I don't think his fighting style changed one bit when he was The King. DeathChicken posted:And then Hogan murdered him and he went to heaven. Straight up regicide.
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May 5, 2014 21:26
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oldpainless posted:I'd put Cena before Bryan in terms of comparison. Cena's undoubtedly more valuable to the WWE's bottom line, but Bryan comes closer to getting tv/ppv reactions like the big name Attitude Era guys did. Austin, Rock, and Foley certainly never got booed as faces by a significant potion of the crowd. Certainly neither comes close to the mainstream pop culture visibility Rock and Austin had. Bryan's "YES" chant has become a thing beyond wrestling (just saw a bootleg Pens t-shirt for sale emblazoned with "YES YES YES") but I don't think non wrestling fans really associate it with WWE wrestler Daniel Bryan or even necessarily know who he is. Thauros fucked around with this message at 21:36 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 21:33
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Thauros posted:Austin, Rock, and Foley certainly never got booed as faces by a significant potion of the crowd. No, they got it worse.  I know thats not what you ment
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May 5, 2014 21:43
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:The Attitude Era is a mixed bag. The main events were generally great. The midcard had a lot of characters but the matches were mediocre until late 1999 or 2000. Ad breaks during matches were rare so modern Raw had much better wrestling even before it went to 3 hours. oldpainless posted:I'd put Cena before Bryan in terms of comparison. Big Coffin Hunter posted:This is completely true, especially factoring in merch and house shows and all that fun stuff, but to someone who hasn't been paying attention to WWE since around that era it has got to look like Cena isn't nearly as popular since one guy has the place explode when he shows up and the other routinely gets mixed reactions or outright booed some of the time. I have another couple of questions: What happened with Taz? His WWE run seemed doomed from the start. They gave him the win over Angle, but then it wasn't really a win because his finisher was illegal. Then he was squashed by HHH. Then he turned heel and then he retired to do bad colour. I think that all happened in the space of a year. What was it? Too many injuries mounted up? Couldn't adapt to the WWE style? Just plain wasn't as good as his ECW fans would have you believe? I understand that Foley kept coming back after retirement - the last I remember him actually wrestling was at WM2000. Did he do much in-ring work in his comebacks? How bad was it? How badly has this tainted his legacy? How well-regarded is Rey Mysterio? I only really know him from his WCW work, which I thought was really good. I always liked that he could tell a story that wasn't just "I am so small and yet I hold my own" (although that was usually a big part of it of course) jesus WEP fucked around with this message at 21:54 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 21:52
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I remember when Taz had that hilarious run where he kept putting the Tazmission on people, then they'd mule kick him in the nuts. That's usually a sign someone in management doesn't like you.
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May 5, 2014 22:00
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St Evan Echoes posted:
Rey is/was a fantastic worker but the past few years his knees are just so wrecked he's like Christian in terms of being on the DL. But I'd have no qualms saying Rey should go down in history of one of the all-time greats, in my opnion. Workrate I mean, not mic skills or drawing money.
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May 5, 2014 22:11
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oldpainless posted:Rey is/was a fantastic worker but the past few years his knees are just so wrecked he's like Christian in terms of being on the DL. But I'd have no qualms saying Rey should go down in history of one of the all-time greats, in my opnion. Workrate I mean, not mic skills or drawing money. In terms of the current era of WWE he's one of their best draws just because he was one of the big reasons Mexico became such a hotbed for WWE and it cooling off has corresponded with Rey being on the DL.
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May 5, 2014 22:13
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I've had surgery five times... ON MY LEFT KNEE
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May 5, 2014 22:15
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oldpainless posted:Rey is/was a fantastic worker but the past few years his knees are just so wrecked he's like Christian in terms of being on the DL. But I'd have no qualms saying Rey should go down in history of one of the all-time greats, in my opnion. Workrate I mean, not mic skills or drawing money.
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May 5, 2014 22:16
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St Evan Echoes posted:What happened with Taz? His WWE run seemed doomed from the start. They gave him the win over Angle, but then it wasn't really a win because his finisher was illegal. Then he was squashed by HHH. Then he turned heel and then he retired to do bad colour. I think that all happened in the space of a year. What was it? Too many injuries mounted up? Couldn't adapt to the WWE style? Just plain wasn't as good as his ECW fans would have you believe? Taz had a really bad neck, plus he's short and was incredibly well-protected in ECW; in WWE, there weren't many guys who were small enough to bump like crazy for him or take his suplexes, and even fewer guys who wanted to. I think they still could have used Tazz a lot better, but they didn't, so he took the hint and retired before his neck got worse. St Evan Echoes posted:I understand that Foley kept coming back after retirement - the last I remember him actually wrestling was at WM2000. Did he do much in-ring work in his comebacks? How bad was it? How badly has this tainted his legacy? Foley had some really good hardcore matches with Edge and Randy Orton, but he did tarnish his legacy by coming back so much. Legends who overstay their welcome often expose the fact that a lot of them are just sad old guys just hanging around the business, and that's how Foley was seen after a while. Luckily he's so nice and funny that I don't think fans will ever totally desert him. St Evan Echoes posted:How well-regarded is Rey Mysterio? I only really know him from his WCW work, which I thought was really good. I always liked that he could tell a story that wasn't just "I am so small and yet I hold my own" (although that was usually a big part of it of course) Rey is very well-regarded by his peers for being easy to work with, but constant knee issues have taken a big toll on his in-ring stuff, and he can't go like he once did. It's reaching the point where fans see his matches and think about how awesome he used to be.
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May 5, 2014 22:18
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Watch No Mercy 2002 the tag-team title match with Edge/rey vs Angle/Benoit. Go watch it now.
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May 5, 2014 22:18
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Why are you reading this and not watching that match?
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May 5, 2014 22:19
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DeathChicken posted:I remember when Taz had that hilarious run where he kept putting the Tazmission on people, then they'd mule kick him in the nuts. That's usually a sign someone in management doesn't like you. This just reminded me of an InVasion subplot that REALLY bugged me, which was Taz finally standing up to Stone Cold's bullying like the shitkicker ECW built him to be. They have a match, Taz lights Austin up at the bell, slaps on the Tazmission, *DING* hoofed in the frijoles, stunner, thank you, drive through. I ain't sayin' Taz should have won. But gently caress, IIRC, the match went less than a minute, and Taz had cut a solid promo before the match about how nothing is more dangerous than a man backed into a corner who has nothing left to lose. AS it turns out, a kick in the ding dong is more dangerous than that, Taz.
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May 5, 2014 22:20
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CombineThresher posted:Taz had a really bad neck, plus he's short and was incredibly well-protected in ECW; in WWE, there weren't many guys who were small enough to bump like crazy for him or take his suplexes, and even fewer guys who wanted to. I think they still could have used Tazz a lot better, but they didn't, so he took the hint and retired before his neck got worse. Important thing to note about Mick: Unlike most legends who stage a comeback, he really did do it with the purpose of putting Edge and Orton over, and helped make those guys, IMO.
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May 5, 2014 22:22
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Mick has some regrets about coming back as many times as he did, as related in his recent WWE doc. His general opinion was that his thing at Wrestlemania 20 was overall not worth it. I have no idea why they drew that out to Backlash other than to get Batista and Flair on the Mania card. It was a dumb use of the Rock, too.
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May 5, 2014 22:24
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St Evan Echoes posted:I should have said - today I've watched 3 WWE matches of his. His debut v Chavo; the RAW Eddie memorial v HBK and The Bash v Jericho. The latter 2 were utterly fantastic matches. I think because those guys are also kinda small, it meant he could hold his own physically and the psychology didn't have to be built around his size. Did he work any great matches against bigger guys? Watch Elimination Chamber 2011, Rey and Edge wrestle a fantastic match at the end of their EC match. He also had a great match with Jack Swagger in 2010 and a good one at Royal Rumble 2010 with Undertaker.
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May 5, 2014 22:24
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St Evan Echoes posted:I should have said - today I've watched 3 WWE matches of his. His debut v Chavo; the RAW Eddie memorial v HBK and The Bash v Jericho. The latter 2 were utterly fantastic matches. I think because those guys are also kinda small, it meant he could hold his own physically and the psychology didn't have to be built around his size. Did he work any great matches against bigger guys? He did some really solid work with Angle around the time of his WWE debut. Also, look up basically any tag match he did in 2002. This was around the time Heyman booked Smackdown, and his two go-to time killers were "something terrible with Dawn Marie and Torrie Wilson" or "two to four of you six put on a match of the year contender for, like, twenty minutes."
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May 5, 2014 22:27
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Important thing to note about Mick: Unlike most legends who stage a comeback, he really did do it with the purpose of putting Edge and Orton over, and helped make those guys, IMO. oldpainless posted:Watch No Mercy 2002 the tag-team title match with Edge/rey vs Angle/Benoit. Related: they leave Benoit's matches on the Network, but they don't put the bookmarks in? Is that a conscious decision? It seems really pointless to do that. Edit: God drat, the opening section with Angle alone was worth the recommendation! Edit 2: Jesus, that was great. jesus WEP fucked around with this message at 22:59 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 22:29
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