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Well, a general comment on this game (and blatant page-bump). It's been quite an interesting story, full of intriguing images and somehow I find myself thinking of a more benevolent Drosselmeyer or something with the reality-warping stories. And I guess I'll agree with that comment earlier in this thread about Camil being one of the best silent protagonists around. Somehow her actions say far more than usual. Certainly I liked the odd, ominous atmosphere. Overall, thank you for LPing this. EDIT: And looks like we got a new page.
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May 2, 2014 23:25
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If you're interested in breaking the game a little bit there is a fun thing you can do with the Starcaller. You see the way the game works is once you defeat the hero it changes a variable in your save file that allows you to open up the door to the Starcaller. So if you play through the game without saving you can get the variable triggered then open up a save file near the beginning of the game and have the Starcaller unlocked. Now enjoy crushing everything in your path! (Disclaimer: you have to beat the final boss first so that requires two no save playthroughs) Edit: Sweet new page! Valkama fucked around with this message at 23:30 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 23:28
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When I got the Dagger I immediately tossed it on to Camil and had no regrets. Hitting everything in combat if I'm sane about how I encounter stuff multiple times (I think I had the Rib equipped with it, for a bit, which occasionally got silly) with a very nice chance of criticals was fun. I think I spent most of the Cave Chronicle past the first savepoint running desperately from many things. My first attempt led to me running out of energy restores in Middle-Earth, though. I never beat the Hero, Alma and Milil-whatsit, and I didn't know anything happened at that town when heading back. Einander posted:The end of Zelphie's life is sad precisely because there's never any real reason given for it. He was a hero, he became a king, he grew old, he went insane; there's never any reason to think it was something other than a sudden tragic stroke of bad luck. That book won't be the way he's remembered. Were we ever told what the disease actually was? A disease that just kills people and a disease that makes everyone insane and try to kill everyone else has more or less the same effect in the end. The latter is treated as scarier, though. Zombies, rage virus, et cetera. That's what I came to think of Zelphie's madness at some point, anyway. There was really nothing to support it, and I think the only thing I know he came into contact with from the Island was Harold's book. Do we know how old Randolf is? Or, rather, how much younger he is than Nana. Would three years after Aeritz tried to fight over the book be around when Zelphie beat the woman who was probably Randolf's mother (and, if Nana is his sister, Zelphie's daughter or daughter-in-law) to death? That sounds like either an early insane act, or maybe something that set it off.
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May 3, 2014 12:45
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Sorry about overloading the last page; I don't usually think too hard about that sort of thing.Feldherren posted:Were we ever told what the disease actually was? A disease that just kills people and a disease that makes everyone insane and try to kill everyone else has more or less the same effect in the end. The latter is treated as scarier, though. Zombies, rage virus, et cetera. We don't know exactly what The Disease does, but... Remember, every single enemy in The Disease area is called "Deformity," and just about every other non-Story enemy is a normal animal. The Disease, meanwhile, has hydras, horrible shrieking butterflies, poison bears, giant dragons, weird bird things, and cave goats. So either The Disease warps people and animals into monsters, or it's a metaphor and it does the last metaphorically (like a rage virus, yes), or it's a metaphor and and The Disease does horrible things to its victims. That said, Zelphie's illness is almost certainly not The Disease or they would have called it that instead of "a strange illness." The Disease was present on both The Continent and The Island, and it's implied to be worse on The Continent--flowers, which fed the rats that carried it, were totally exterminated on The Continent, but they're still around on The Island. (And SOME people must have survived it on The Island--someone had to dig all of those graves in The Disease area, after all.) The Chronicle was written before Zelphie went ill, and just before it was written, flowers were rare enough that a gift of one was a notable event. I think that it's meant to basically be a meaningless event, because it's more tragic that way. So I'm guessing The Disease has pretty horrible symptoms. Maybe it's Ebola? If rats were the primary carrier, then it'd have to have some infection vector outside of fluid contact, and a variant of Ebola that was airborne would be utterly horrifying. Feldherren posted:Do we know how old Randolf is? Or, rather, how much younger he is than Nana. Would three years after Aeritz tried to fight over the book be around when Zelphie beat the woman who was probably Randolf's mother (and, if Nana is his sister, Zelphie's daughter or daughter-in-law) to death? That sounds like either an early insane act, or maybe something that set it off. Randolf is born after her grandfather very neatly beats Nana's friend to death. I'm guessing he wasn't showing signs of his illness before then, or else she probably wouldn't have dared go meet him. Nana's said to be three when Aeritz steals half of the Chronicle, so if Randolf's born just after Zelphie's illness pops up, then she's about six years older than Randolf. If Aeritz and Kumo attacked Zelphie nineteen years after he stole the book and a few years passed after that, then at the time the game takes place, Randolf is around 18 and Nana is about 24. Camil was born before the Demon King Chronicle was finished, before it floated to The Continent, and before it became famous enough for Aeritz to go after Zelphie's copy, so she's probably a year or two older than Nana. 25 or 26, then. I'm guessing Kumo isn't too much older than her, despite his Stubble Superhero look. It's hard to tell with anime art styles, but the cast of this game is surprisingly old for this sort of story.
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May 3, 2014 22:33
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There's still more (super)boss(es) left? Are we gonna fight the the literary equivalent of The Disease now? 
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May 3, 2014 23:41
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Einander posted:His Memory theorizing It's possible that Zelphie is related to the mirror somehow, but I just can't make myself see it as anything other than Harold's since the known thief didn't bring the mirror to the island and Aaron Aaron's "habit" of selling things that used to belong to others on the island narrow it down to basically only Harold as a potential target, offhand? It's possible that, as Camil has surpassed Harold's story, the Mirror itself becomes something more that encompasses the entity that effectively sparks the entire events of the game. IOW I think I agree that the Mirror, in the end, encompasses both Harold and Zelphie's roles. I'm basically not sold on "His" being Zelphie, I guess I'm saying. I think the end three rooms are definitely connected to Zelphie, which is rather interesting, but overall, I think it's more Harold's/far more strongly connected to Harold and his story. (It's possible the "His" is ambiguous precisely for this reason; while singular, it doesn't preclude referring to Harold until after The Final Battle as Planned, and then referring to Zelphie afterward.)
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May 4, 2014 04:17
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What if His Memory was Harold's, making the last three doors famous things about Zelphie? His sword must've been known across The Continent.
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May 4, 2014 04:28
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Torokasi posted:It's possible that Zelphie is related to the mirror somehow, but I just can't make myself see it as anything other than Harold's since the known thief didn't bring the mirror to the island and Aaron Aaron's "habit" of selling things that used to belong to others on the island narrow it down to basically only Harold as a potential target, offhand? I don't think the mirror itself actually means anything; to my knowledge, it's never brought up. It probably has its own story behind it, what with Aaron Aaron's "habits," but that doesn't mean that history is relevant to Camil's use of it. I'm pretty sure she's just being dramatic. (Is "just" appropriate here, when her powers are probably half presentation? A storyteller needs an audience, after all.) Hitlers Gay Secret posted:What if His Memory was Harold's, making the last three doors famous things about Zelphie? His sword must've been known across The Continent. Oh, that's certainly also possible. The Final Battle as Planned is the strongest argument for it being Harold, and Zelphie is famous enough that the connections to Zelphie in His Memory can be explained. I just think that the argument for Zelphie is more convincing. (Aeritz is a distant third place, and then the list of possibilities more-or-less ends.) It's not an area where we have the information to definitely state one way or the other, though, and I don't really mind that.
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May 4, 2014 08:35
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Einander posted:Age Talk Camil is 21. Nana is 24. Randolf is 18. Edit: Upon closer inspection it's more reasonable to assume Randolf is 18 Edit 2: Ignore what I said about Nana. She must be at least 6 years older than Randolf. Randolf is confirmed to be 18 by Flodnar's diary and Glossary entries so she is 24. Edit 3: gently caress it I'm making a timeline 60 BeforeDKC Zelphie is Born 5 BDKC Flodnar Leaves his Village 3 BDKC Nana is Born 0 Ares Gives woman a flower Camil is Born Harold Writes the Demon King Chronicle Zelphie Aquires the Demon King Chronicle Aeritz steals chapters two and three 3 AfterDKC Zelphie Goes Mad Joel is Beaten up by Zelphie Randolf is Born Randolf's Mother is killed and Randolf is abandoned Flodnar finds Randolf 11 ADKC Randolf gets sick Randolf and Flodnar move to the island 13 ADKC Flodnar Disappears 19 ADKC Aeritz and Kumo Battle Zelphie and flee to the island 20 ADKC Nana reunites with Joel Nana goes to the island 21 ADKC Camil Appears on the island Transcending time...the story final reaches its conclusion. Valkama fucked around with this message at 00:20 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 4, 2014 23:57
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This game has been a lot about people being able to identify with characters in stories. I especially like how Kumo was enthralled by the Demon King Chronicle's chapter about the white whale symbolizing weak-willed goodness (even if there was a reason for that since it was based off of his and Aeritz's inability to kill Zelphie). So, I do agree that His Memory is probably Zelphie's. I think that Camil accessing His Memory with the mirror is because she's looking into herself and being able to identify traits that Zelphie had. They're both heroes after all.
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May 5, 2014 03:01
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Thanks for introducing me to this game. I played through it, inspired after the first few updates you did, and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I wish other RPGs tinkered with some of the mechanics this game used. I can't really think of any that had this sort of pre-battle period with changed on screen enemy movement behavior. I also liked being able to equip everything.
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May 6, 2014 01:07
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Valkama posted:Camil is 21. Three issues with the timeline: 1) As I argued before, the "Zelphie is known as the Hero 20 years later" thing in Zelphie's Glossary entry flat-out contradicts Kumo's story and also basically everything we know about Zelphie. This is after he's been an insane tyrant for 17 years. Kumo's story, meanwhile, suggests that Zelphie's been treated like a hero for 40 years (21 BDKC) and became king 20 years before (1 BDKC). This makes a lot more sense. 2) We really have no idea how long it is between the failed attack on Zelphie and the start of the game. Randolf's age appears to pinpoint the story a bit, but even that's inconclusive; the next-to-last entry in Flodnar's diary says Randolf was 10, and Randolf's Glossary entry says he lived on the island for 8 years after Flodnar vanished, but we don't know how long it is between any two entries in that diary. I think it's one to three years, but I'm really just guessing. 3) The 0 entry looks a lot more implausible if you think about it. I mean, let me add to that: 0 Ares meets Harold Ares goes back to The Continent and gives pregnant woman a flower Ares and Harold meet seven more times during her intermittent trips to and from The Island, during which time Harold's health slowly deteriorates Camil is born Harold fails to complete the Demon King Chronicle The Demon King Chronicle is set adrift The Demon King Chronicle floats to The Island Zelphie acquires the Demon King Chronicle The Demon King Chronicle is published in small numbers The Demon King Chronicle develops a theorizing fandom The Demon King Chronicle becomes famous Inspired by its fame, Aeritz steals chapters two and three of the original Chronicle I'm not buying that as all happening in a year, even if you assume Ares and Harold had their first and last meetings in the space of a single month and that a devastating plague (probably occurring anywhere from 25 to 50 BKC) changed population dynamics in favor of centralization and that they're safely past the point of worrying about the impacts of devastating population growth on a civilization's subsistence. So I'm pretty sure Camil is at least 23. (I'm probably going to work this timeline into a "threadtalk about the story" post for the thread's archiving at some point, so I may as well do my part to iron it out, you know?)
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May 6, 2014 01:55
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Yeah, the "20 years before Zelphie became the Hero" makes no sense. Maybe it's a simple translation error and they meant "after"? That seems like it would fix everything. Think about it: Zelphie has been known as a Hero for exactly 20 years, Aeritz promises to get that sort of reputation in 19. What Aeritz is really saying is that he will surpass Zelphie, ever so slightly. That's also why there's the bit about keeping your word. Zelphie did, Aeritz didn't, which is another way he failed to surpass Zelphie. --- Also... you didn't point out that Alma is on the name of Mole's sword. Mole is Millianis. He either named the sword after Alma, or Alma made it and put her name on it (thus also explaining who the weapon Amaryllis belonged to). So you not only got to fight Story Zelphie, you got to fight The Mole too. Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 12:38 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 12:20
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I just read the original Japanese text. The little parentheses seem to say "Zelphie Eluonto took until 20 years to be called a hero"(Correct Tallgeese) I need to just read the original text when making theories from now on. According to Aaron Aaron(Also in the Japanese text) a flower was handed to a village woman 21 years ago. So I don't see any way for Camil to be older than 21. Valkama fucked around with this message at 00:07 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 23:58
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Makes sense that His Memory is Zelphie... at least to me. Somehow it feels right for the book that got cut in half to be the incomplete Demon King Chronicle. That means two people's memories are tied up in the same book.
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May 8, 2014 04:06
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Final update delayed a couple of days. I've done basically all of the prep work, I just need to do the actual showpieces of the update. In a totally unrelated matter, Growlanser: The Wayfarer of Time is a very good game.
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May 9, 2014 22:55
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It is! Did you know you can skip spell animations by pressing circle (or something similar)? You probably did, but it took me like 30 hours to figure this out, and so I'd like to spare you from my pain if you're as dumb as I am.
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May 9, 2014 23:22
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Cake Attack posted:It is! Did you know you can skip spell animations by pressing circle (or something similar)? You probably did, but it took me like 30 hours to figure this out, and so I'd like to spare you from my pain if you're as dumb as I am. Yep, I've played through the first three games, and that's always been in. And all of the early spells seemed to have old animations, so I don't think I've watched any for about the last ten hours. Probably should at some point. Although if there's a way to split your spells between targets in this one (charge to level 3 then hit three targets with level 1 spells, that sort of thing), then I'd love to know how. I know you could in 2 and 3, but if it's possible here then I haven't figured out how. (Ah, the wonders of being OP. Nothing you say is off-topic.)
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May 9, 2014 23:52
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So after browsing around a bit I found out there is a secret skill Camil can get that I didn't know about. During the final battle if you give Camil tons of status's she will gain the status Rainbow Iris which causes her to learn a skill called Camil Beam. When I used it the final boss went from full hp to zero.
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May 10, 2014 07:53
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Does that work on The Hero?
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May 10, 2014 07:57
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Valkama posted:So after browsing around a bit I found out there is a secret skill Camil can get that I didn't know about. Book form or Demon King form?
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May 10, 2014 08:00
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Valkama posted:So after browsing around a bit I found out there is a secret skill Camil can get that I didn't know about. I know, yeah. There's a specific trigger. It may not be the only one, but I know this one works: (Spoilers for the next update) Be hit with Postscript Setting from the Demon King Chronicle while The Perfect Hero is activated. It's a complete pain in the rear end to actually use, not least because of the skill's massive cost, and by the time you can you really don't need it, but it's a neat Easter Egg.
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May 10, 2014 08:07
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Tallgeese posted:Does that work on The Hero? SSNeoman posted:Book form or Demon King form? Einander posted:I know, yeah. There's a specific trigger. It may not be the only one, but I know this one works:
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May 10, 2014 12:50
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Apparently there's also another special status you can get during that battle, and I haven't figured out the conditions there. It doesn't have anything neat associated with it like the first one does, though, so I wasn't too bothered. (Rainbow is bad enough.)
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May 10, 2014 17:41
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Einander posted:Apparently there's also another special status you can get during that battle, and I haven't figured out the conditions there. It doesn't have anything neat associated with it like the first one does, though, so I wasn't too bothered. (Rainbow is bad enough.) The boss needs to use Death Foreshadowing on you. It's a pretty good stat boost although you really aren't looking for a good stat boost at that point in the game so it's just kind of there.
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May 10, 2014 20:08
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Einander posted:Final update delayed a couple of days. I've done basically all of the prep work, I just need to do the actual showpieces of the update. So uh is this still happening? I hope the update is delayed because you keep dying however many times it would take me to win both polls.
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Jun 12, 2014 19:43
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When I typed "two days" I actually meant "two months." The keys are right next to each other. Yeah, sorry, just got a little burned out at the time and never quite got back to it. It'll be soon! Probably next weekend, I have a three-day coming up.
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Jun 15, 2014 04:25
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See, this is why I stick to an update schedule when I'm LPing: I am lazy as hell without finite due dates. Still, one way or another, I'm going to do this. One last bump, and then I'm going to finish this on Friday. That is an actual firm schedule and I am sticking to it, come hell or high water.
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Aug 12, 2014 06:01
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Demon King Chronicle Appendix 1: "It will find its way into someone's heart, and that will give rise to a new story." (Reverse Order challenge, Final Battle Secrets) There's several things to show off today. The first requires me to play through the game again. Thankfully, grabbing the Book of Manslaying and the Zara items still works as well as ever.  Grabbing the Hair trivializes the part before that almost as well, too; +39 SP (fully leveled, it's +62) means a lot of Fire Waves, and +20 Skill lets you kill in one less hit pretty often.  Notably, you can't read this book while Kumo's still here. No Zelphie entry ridiculously early on. The rest is pretty standard; you saw solo Camil speedrunning last time, in the missed content update. I do change up two things, though, on top of actually getting Fire Wave early on. First, I run through the Seashore after The Snow Fields. I want to talk to Randolf there to grab the Glass Fragment.  This set-up meets my needs there almost exactly. Any tough fight starts with Camil Guarding until the enemy brings her down to 70% health and using Shout.  Then my 101 Agility ensures Sporadic Guard always works, so she can use a Stamina Restore and then sweep.  Sometimes this works better than others, but I get through without incident and with just one reset. Second, once I've gotten all of Randolf's Fragments, I go and get him. I'm actually doing stuff this time around, I want him levelled. In the process, I discover something:   Huh. I guess the Avalanche Spirit respawns; this means you can get two Snow Maidens, and since there's also two of the enemy that drops the Demon Wings, you can also get two I Believe I Can Fly! items. A permanent +4 Agility is useful, but it may be worth it to keep a Demon Wings around--it's a +20 Agility All-Purpose, and there aren't too many of those. It's more mage-oriented than the Parts, too. The rest pretty much goes as you'd expect. (Most of) The Tower, The Demon King Castle Part 2, finish The Tower, The Seashore (again), The Mirage, The Leviathan Depths, The Disease. I talk to everyone at every location (except one, which I'll explain in a moment), because I want to maximize my bottle count. I actually died against The Tower's boss; his Purgatory was doing 60 damage to a party with about that much max HP (he killed Randolf outright once), and he used it basically every turn. It wasn't pretty. Side effect of my speedrunning, I guess, even after grinding up six Wet Stuff. I do get to end the winning run with a Happy Ending Supremacy Passion Burst, though, which feels pretty good. I get through The Disease again.   It's not very hard--both characters are kitted out to be absurdly fast and absurdly strong for this point in the game. The Demon Wings are stupid good, guys. I did die twice on the screen with the Dirty Clothes, mostly because I was bored and fought too many things at once. The third time was just getting bad luck with RNG while, again, not paying attention. Being too strong is actually kind of a problem in this game, because "too strong" very rarely means "basically invincible." Then I got to the end and realized I forgot to pick up the White Will Stone. Dammit. Well, I needed levels anyway... So, what did I run through basically the entire game for, exactly? Remember the two ways into Cave Chronicle? The "front door" is the hole in The Nest where Laylaria threw away all of those ruined stories. The back door is in The Snow Fields. The back door is always available, while the front door is unlocked by defeating The Coward. Exiting from the jail or the church via the money options puts you at the hole in The Nest. So what happens if you exit that way when you still haven't defeated Laylaria? This is effectively a challenge run of the last leg of Cave Chronicle. Defeating Laylaria does three other things for you, and if you skip her, then you can't get any of the associated rewards. Let's go down the list, from least to most painful. Defeating Laylaria gives you (and therefore, here, you lose): 1) lets you talk to Kumo outside the hole (1 Glass Fragment), 2) lets you break into her room (Hair, and therefore a Chatty Barber), which also... 3) ...unlocks the potted plant (the Black Ladybug armor), 4) and fulfills one of the flags needed to unlock the final dungeon (The Aegis and Delusion Cocoon Armors, the Baby's Breath weapon, about ten Glass Fragments, the area's enemy drops, the best grinding spot in the game, and all of the money and character/item levels you would have gotten there) This hurts. This hurts a lot. Entering Cave Chronicle with Aeritz at level 1 and no leveled items is particularly unpleasant, since it renders him largely irrelevant (if you can grind him there, then you probably aren't having problems anyway), and losing both of the best Sporadic Guard items is also painful... Especially since number 3, the Helm, drops off enemies only available once you've already passed the hardest parts. The Trauma All-Purpose is also in The Imagination, so the available list of Sporadic Guard sources is: 1) Daybreak Club All-Purpose (pretty good) 2) Sagarmatha All-Purpose (outdated) 3) Turtle Shell All-Purpose (hahahahaha) That's it. And, notably, I entered Cave Chronicle at level 30 and left it at about level 45. That's about 45 points of attack for Camil, about 50 for Randolf (his levelling slows down later) and around 40-60 HP for everyone. And without the Black Ladybug, Randolf has a lot less SP to work with. So I grind up to level 31 in The Disease (died once to goats; accidentally let the enemy Shout while levelling Slimy Goop), pick up some item levels, buy the Dragon Slayer crystal and the Three-Legged Frog, and then drop down the hole.  Camil had just above 480 HP and still very nearly died. The randomization on this jump is kind of bullshit and will probably kick my reset count up quite a bit here.  Camil is not especially impressive here compared to her usual Postgame Death Goddess self; she's lacking about 30 Attack from levels and really wants a good Sporadic Guard item. Still, fully leveled Lucky Rabbit + Zara Sword is a 24% chance of not taking damage, and combined with that 60% half-damage she should be good enough at not dying to trigger Shout sometimes, at which point she'll be much more competent.  Randolf really misses the +SP of the Black Ladybug; he's not terribly sustainable as-is, especially without Recover SP when Defending. Still, all we really need to do is get to the church... So hopefully this'll be enough. (Potion supplies are 15 Stamina/11 Energy, by the way.)  I want to see if I can get Aeritz here to crack 1000 damage taken. You know, for comedy value. He's certainly not managing much else here. I get into a fight with a yellow Orc, and...  ...wait, what? Okay, I didn't buy Star Fall Magic, so that's expected, but... Aeritz, what happened to Healing Magic...? Man, he really is going to be completely worthless here. Oh dear.  This is one full turn of attacking. It is perfectly reasonable to guess that I died here.  I said Camil wasn't quite her usual Postgame Death Goddess self, but come on, she's still Camil. Certain things are to be expected.   Not that it's easy on my potion stocks. I use a I Believe I Can Fly! before the next fight for the buff and it's still pretty painful. The Yellows chase you, remember, and their detection radius is pretty drat big.  Then I retreat too far against Shelob here (there was an Orc pursuing and I didn't want to fight it at the same time) and have to refight it. 2 more Energy Restores lost. I just let it kill me at that point--things are going too badly. The second time around, I realize that the Energy Ups I have stored actually heal 50% or so in addition to the stat boosting. I should use them at the bottom of the drop instead of potions!  So naturally I use them all at once instead of spreading them out, because I'm good at video games. I die an unlucky death to a Yellow Orc. The problem with them, in addition to their relatively massive hit point pools and high damage, is that they can summon. The ones they summon can't summon, but they're only a little less strong and tough. Fights are unfortunately really, really luck-based, especially when you consider my Sporadic Guard odds. Which means I really, really can't afford to roll those dice often. I need to avoid them.  The next time, I'm wiser about using my stat boosters.  Veer left here...  ...and if I veer right and I'm very careful, I don't have to fight these ones either.  This one's a bit more complicated--basically go down, make him follow you, circle around him counter-clockwise--but with him avoided, I've proved I can escape the first screen without any fights! That's a big deal.  Apparently Shelob can just kill Randolf from full if neither Guard goes off. That's annoying... Does let me Hero Supplement, though, especially since Randolf is faster than Camil before I Believe I Can Fly! gets used. That means she can heal him up to full afterward.  Correction: I forgot, they CAN summon. Fuckballs.  And then Camil gets killed by Sporadic Guard not activating on a 12% (after Yell's 150% boost to Agility) and through 24% evasion. And then I die to the exact same 12%*76% against the next Goblin I have to fight. This run is kind of bullshit, guys. I'll give it about five more tries, then I'm grinding to 35, by which I mean "I'm using debug mode to get to level 35." I could grind it manually, but it really wouldn't prove anything. Death by Red Orc on the first screen (dodging mistake), death to Shelob ("okay, Randolf's dead, but Camil just needs to survive one turn and it sometimes passes its turn. I need Sporadic Guard to activate once on either of two hits, or one evasion, and..."), death to 496 damage fall (are you loving kidding me), death to Shelob (I'm not even going to loving talk about that one)...   Holy crap, I made it to the third screen!  Fight a normal Orc, swing wide around this guy, fight another normal Orc... ...die to Sporadic Guard not activating and Camil not evading for four attacks in a row. I give it one more try, then I take a break. It's at this point that I realize there's one more trick I haven't tried yet. I drop down, grab the Long Sword, and go off to do some more item levelling. In the process, I kill the Great Rat; he goes down like a chump so long as you know he's there and you've gotten through most of the game.  It's time to give Cutthroat a whirl. I've mentioned the skill, but I've never used it on-camera, so here's a quick refresher: Cutthroat is a skill that costs 12 SP, has a 95% HP threshold, and does minor damage... But it also has an Agility/2% chance of killing enemies that don't resist it. The HP threshold isn't a concern--taking off the Mask or Parts, exiting the menu (so HP drops to the new max) and reequipping them brings Camil to about 90% max HP, and the after-battle regen effect stops as soon as you reach full HP, even if your HP drops below max afterwards. For Shelob and the Balrog, I can just switch back to her smashy set-up, since I'm pretty sure they're instant-death immune. (I realize a little later that the Zara Sword is slightly better than the Laude here. Whatever, no point in changing the screenshot.)  On the first use...  ...it's an unqualified success! One hit, one kill. Okay, I think I can do this now.  The minor Orc fight after Shelob takes three turns, since Cutthroat fails the first time and they summon, but it succeeds the next two times. First turn success on the next one, takes two turns on the one after, first turn next... ...and I finally make it to the fourth screen. Time to see how the Balrog fight goes!  Not bad, actually. This is his double-hit Flame after two Sporadic Guards. The party-hit Flame does about 60, 30 when guarded. Randolf takes more damage, and Camil gets an early Yell off, so he spends most of his turns frantically trying not to die while Camil cleans house.   I'm in pretty good shape to finish this up, provided I manage to steer clear of Sharkey. And I manage to get through the next two screens without fights.  Yeah, don't mind me, guys. Just keep doin' your thing. Through the tree door!  I book it like hell--there's no way in hell I can kill the enemies that guard the Dagger chest. Thankfully...  ...that's done! I have the money to get back four times over.   Father... Mother... my Sister too...   This really, really does not end well for her. Even insta-death Camil still does 100 per hit to her, and Randolf's Dragon Slayer does a neat 600. There's no dialogue for after this. Aaron Aaron might have if I'd done this even earlier, but, well...  ...he's gone off to go do his possessed thing. Shouldn't have talked to the Mole, and I am not doing the game again to check if he does have dialogue. I am crazy enough to replay the game for this challenge and this bit of dialogue, but there are limits. Total resets for this little side adventure: 14. Total annihilation count: 51. There's still a few more things to show off, though. First, I go back to my primary save file. Randolf's Glossary entry is unlocked at level 45, but Camil's is unlocked at level 50. You are highly unlikely to get to level 50 naturally; I used debug mode for quick levels. Let's leave that for a moment, though.  You might have remembered I said the Demon King Chronicle is invincible in the last fight. This is more-or-less true... But only more or less. There's a way to harm it. It's a really, really dumb way. You see...   ...if you get a bare-handed character's Attack over 500, then they can hurt the Demon King Chronicle with normal attacks. And no, that's not a pre-scrolling image of its health bar. It really does have that much HP. Yeah, I know, "what the gently caress," right? Even if you have the Starcaller and Long Sword fully leveled, you're only going to get to about 480 attack. You need Camil at about level 55 to break 500 naturally. In practice, this means that you need to pop The Perfect Hero or Hero Supplement to do it. Killing the book this way takes goddamn ages, even with the +attack items I'm missing... And if you do, there's nothing special for it. You just go straight into Harold's dialogue. At least spending a lot of time with Camil in Perfection status makes it easier to show off the other secrets in this fight. Look up at that screenshot again. See the "Rainbow Iris" status? Look back two screens above that. Notice how her Skill has doubled? The Perfect Hero not only increases Camil's stats, it turns the Chronicle's attacks to your advantage, making them confer buffs instead. Postscript Setting is the one that gives you Rainbow Iris. In addition to the stat boosts...  ...it gives you access to the most powerful attack in the game. (Yes, it really is named "Camil Beam.")   The numbers may not look impressive, but this Camil is kind of gimped by the three-sword set-up she's got going on there. She's doing about 100 with normal attacks. Appearance-wise, it's a single downward beam of light, followed by sparkles. It also makes a squeaky hammer noise. It is anticlimax in a can, especially with how long you generally have to try to get it. See, the Demon King Chronicle doesn't attack very often, and it doesn't seem to have any AI that makes it more likely to attack, or to attack Camil, when The Perfect Hero is up. IF you do get it, Rainbow Iris lasts about three turns, and you're incredibly unlikely to have the MP to use Camil Beam on the first turn. And if you try to use it on the last form, you're probably going to get denied those turns, thanks to his damage and his "you can't act for several turns" unique spell. And you get it only after you've beaten the final boss and most of the optional content, thanks to the chest-based lock on The Perfect Hero.   The other status is Love Flag, activated by Death Foreshadowing or Betrayal Foreshadowing (and probably Goodbye Foreshadowing, but the Chronicle wasn't being accomodating) with The Perfect Hero active. Like Rainbow Iris, it also doubles Skill. As a Flag status, it also triggers the Chronicle to use Foreshadowing Collection, but Foreshadowing Collection has no effect on Love Flag; in effect, it shields you from the Chronicle by making it waste its turns. (And makes it harder to get Rainbow Iris.) Finally, as penance for how long this update took to make...  ...here's what Camil Beam usually does, damage-wise, by the point you can get it. Let's end on a good note after that particular bit of dumbness, shall we? The final Glossary entry! That said... There's a couple of things to point out first. Remember the first update?  As The Imagination reveals, the one speaking at the start is Ares. You might also remember that Harold's text in The Imagination was in blue, and he stored his memories in the Blue Will Stone. ■Camil This story's main character. She carries the Yellow Will Stone so it is her destiny to guide the story to its ending. "Please carry my Will to the end." Yellow text. Camil is carrying Ares's Yellow Will Stone, and they tell you that right in the first few seconds of the game.  That's the power of clever writing, people.And that's a wrap! Thank you to the thread in general, you've been a great audience. Special thanks to Valkama, who provided a lot of valuable information about a game whose mechanics I didn't really understand (and pointed me to a resource that helped me to better understand it). Sometimes it's little things like knowing the formula for Cutthroat that make the difference. Special thanks additionally to HenryEx, who did the same and also made several useful mods. Without Debug mode, I wouldn't have been able to show off some of the game's more obscure corners! There'll be one more post, collecting a few of the story bits and arguments in the thread, but that's it. I plan to LP another game near and dear to my heart in a few months... Another game with a strange set of poorly-documented mechanics and a surprisingly good story. I hope you'll join me when the Saga Frontier 2 thread goes live! One last documents post for the road. Annihilation Record: New entries: Defeated at Cave Chronicle by Orc. Defeated at Cave Chronicle by Orc. Defeated at Cave Chronicle by Shelob. Defeated at Cave Chronicle. Defeated at Cave Chronicle by Shelob. Defeated at Cave Chronicle by Orc. Defeated at Cave Chronicle by Orc. Defeated at Cave Chronicle by Shelob. Defeated at The Disease by Deformity. Defeated at The Disease by Deformity. Defeated at The Disease by Deformity. Defeated at The Disease by Deformity. Defeated at The Tower by Two-Headed Demon. Defeated at The Seashore by Toothy Piranha. Total annihilation count: 51 Contest results: Winner: HenryEx (76) Runner-up: EagerSleeper (98) Third place: Pladdicus (100) Battle Record: 2014/08/15/ 11:59:20 Demon King Chronicle ■Battle results Playtime:23:38:16 Save count:232 Steps taken:113687 Battle count:1394 Max damage:632 Max damage taken:605 Items:54 Types 145 Items Turns to defeat Last Boss：53(Best Record53) Turns to defeat Hidden Boss：40(Best Record40) ■Treasure Chests The Nest: 8/8 Demon King's Castle: 26/26 The Hamlet: 31/31 The Snow Fields: 20/20 The Dragon Mountain: 6/6 Sands of Remembrance: 26/26 The Tower: 11/11 The Seashore: 12/12 The Mirage: 10/10 Leviathan Depths: 5/5 The Disease: 20/20 The Imagination: 32/32 Cave Chronicle: 46/46 Unmapped area: 10/10 ■Camil(50) HP:259 SP:89 Attack:423 Defense:89 Range:32 Critical:47 Skill:113 Agility:80 ・Praying Mantis Axe(3) ・Mask of Determination(3) ・Starcaller(0) ・Aegis(3) ・Holy Sword that Cuts the Dark(3) ■Randolf(50) HP:216 SP:103 Attack:285 Defense:200 Range:64 Critical:14 Skill:183 Agility:72 ・Dagger(1) ・Cordelia(3) ・Delusion Cocoon(3) ・Varnished Bird Wing(3) ・Black Ladybug(3) ■(42) HP:200 SP:80 Attack:325 Defense:152 Range:48 Critical:22 Skill:75 Agility:81 ・Baby's Breath (3) ・Three-Legged Frog(3) ・Helm(3) ・Footfalls of Hope(3) ・Parts(3) ■Top 10 defeats Rat(305) Green Mud Man(178) Conflict(160) Toothy Piranha(157) Mermaid(143) Deformity(98) Abominable Snow Monkey(97) Monkey(90) Wake-Eater(89) Merman(84) Glossary: ■Camil This story's main character. She carries the Yellow Will Stone so it is her destiny to guide the story to its ending. Einander fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 01:07
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HenryEx, need to know what you want for your $10 gift certificate. Like Clockwork, you are the sole person without PMs who won something! Post an e-mail and I'll get your certificate to you. Everyone else, PM me with an e-mail and I'll send you your gift certificates. (As soon as I remember to check the front page, because I never actually go there.)
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Aug 16, 2014 01:22
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Well that's an amusing little tough. Great job LPing this awesome game. Also, Camil Beam is the best attack.
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Aug 16, 2014 01:50
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Phew, finally got through this! Interesting game. I always enjoy seeing creative uses of rpg maker, but I've never heard of this one before. Good show!
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Aug 16, 2014 02:02
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Losing all that armor smarts. That's a neat touch though. I appreciate the developer going the extra mile.
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Aug 16, 2014 19:16
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Yeah, that was nice. Attention to detail is a good thing. Thanks for playing!
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Aug 17, 2014 02:27
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Nice that you managed to finish! And apparently i won something!  I knew believing in your vidja game prowess was the right thing. It's strange that you could not PM me, because i have the platinum upgrade, as you can see with the recent changes to the forums.I... don't actually need anything on the gift list, i have archives and plat already. If you haven't sent the other certificates to the runner-ups yet, you can shift the rewards down one place and give the 10$ one to EagerSleeper. I'd just like to ask you to get this thread saved in the LP Archive, because apparently, the forum's archives are a little unstable right now. And maybe to include a link to the game's debug mode for archive readers either somewhere in the starting posts, or in the update i, where it's kinda thematically appropriate. HenryEx fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Aug 17, 2014 |
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Aug 17, 2014 14:18
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Wow you finished it! It was a really good LP and I enjoyed reading it. I'm glad I was helpful but I think that my favorite part was I still managed to learn some things from this! Also: HenryEx posted:I'd just like to ask you to get this thread saved in the LP Archive
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Aug 17, 2014 15:13
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HenryEx posted:And apparently i won something! I believe the other winner was a poster named Like Clockwork, proving us a forum example of the who's on first routine.
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Aug 17, 2014 15:31
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It is kind of hilarious that "wait, where did you come from" is actually programmed in.
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Aug 17, 2014 16:42
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I stop reading for a few weeks and then I find this finished. Good thing to come back to. Thank you for playing through this game, as otherwise I would never have heard of it. Considering the game already accounted for not doing initial events and let you get extra Hair, I'm not surprised it has an alternate text for Laylaria when going after her this way. Do you just avoid talking to Aaron to trigger the scenario where you catch Laylaria out? Also, something I think I recall from my playthrough; knowing those things are Will 'Stones' now, it makes more sense that you see them around the Nest early on, or am I misremembering seeing one in Kumo's room? I eagerly await your playthrough of SaGa Frontier 2.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:55
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Ha, I stop reading for a few weeks and wind up missing that the LP finished and I won a thing. Send the certificate to REDACTED . Thanks for the great LP, and I hope you get this into the LP archive quickly; it'd suck to lose it. Like Clockwork fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 21, 2014 00:40
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