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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Kind of an odd question, but is there a general "best" range in word count for trying to get short stories published? Like obviously if you are George Saunders or Alice Munro something you can get away with writing basically novellas, but for the average person with no credentials, I'm curious how long a story should typically be. I've heard that under 1k words is just considered flash fiction and isn't particularly marketable, and I've also seen advice from published writers claiming that 2-3k words is the sweet spot for most publications. In SF/F the sweet spot is 3-5k, but honestly 2-3 might be even sweeter these days. I think short stories tend to be too long. Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Oh wow, three book deal with Tor!!! That really is the dream. Congratulations. It was all based on book one. I started writing in March and finished in August or September, followed by a couple months of drafting. I dropped out of my PhD program around June, so I had a few months working on it full time. I'm currently working as a writer at Bungie Studios, but I'm fairly new, so I'm not sure how much spare time I'll have for writing. Quitting your day job is generally a bad idea in writing, even with a nice advance.
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May 5, 2014 23:38
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General Battuta posted:I dropped out of my PhD program around June, so I had a few months working on it full time. my hero
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May 6, 2014 01:00
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crabrock posted:my hero
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May 6, 2014 01:11
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Does anyone have any idea on how to make a group of arrogant nobles even vaguely sympathetic? As in, they know what they're doing to the lower classes is wrong, but they think they're still somehow morally, socially and/or even genetically superior? I'm writing something else entirely, but for some reason this plot element is bugging the hell out of me, and I don't want to let it go lest I lose a grand idea in the making or something.
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May 6, 2014 12:30
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CommissarMega posted:Does anyone have any idea on how to make a group of arrogant nobles even vaguely sympathetic? As in, they know what they're doing to the lower classes is wrong, but they think they're still somehow morally, socially and/or even genetically superior? I'm writing something else entirely, but for some reason this plot element is bugging the hell out of me, and I don't want to let it go lest I lose a grand idea in the making or something. I think I've located your problem, here in bold. If they think they are the peasants' betters, they probably think they are totally justified in oppressing them.
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May 6, 2014 12:34
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Exactly- so how would you make them sympathetic? The whole 'sole voice of reason' character is one, as is 'we do this for their own good/tough love', but what else? I'm thinking maybe occasional contests or trials to see if anyone else can join their ranks, but that seems a little sedition-prone. Dammit, I don't know why this is bothering me so much, but it is.
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May 6, 2014 12:37
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I dunno, you could maybe make certain members of this group more sympathetic by contrasting against members that are particularly large jerks. Is there a particular reason they believe themselves to be superior? Are we talking divine right, the fact that it just so happens to be a class based society and that's more or less how they roll, is a secret society brainwashing them? What's the reason they think this way?
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May 6, 2014 12:48
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You're looking at it the wrong way. Everyone is the hero of their own story, as it were, and the things that will make your characters sympathetic to us are the things they like about themselves. Are they a caring parent? Are they loyal to their friends? Do they save kittens from trees? You might be thinking that the fact they're oppressing the lower classes is going to be sitting in the back of our minds, making us scoff at any of the everyday virtues your characters show, and to an extent you're right, but the funny thing about rich people is that a lot of them live in a social and ideological bubble filled entirely with other rich people. It's easy to be callous towards people who are less fortunate when you never have to actually interact with them and will probably never be in a position to empathize. If you want to make these rich folks sympathetic, you do it the way you would make any other character sympathetic: by writing a likable character. If you keep us in the little rich-person bubble they likely inhabit, we're not even going to think about all of the people they're subjugating-- and then you can start poking little holes in the bubble to make us remember them.
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May 6, 2014 12:53
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Make them self-aware and compassionate yet still grounded in their beliefs that they know what's best? Like you can make it clear that they do care about suffering, but that they think the solution lies within their existing system and not through greater equality. They might have a strong sense of charity, but still feel like charity is theirs to decide and give and that the lower classes aren't owed anything just by merit of existing. You can also make them relatable in other ways--show why they don't have time to care about the concerns of the lower classes, because they're busy talking politics with neighboring nobles to make sure their lands aren't invaded, maybe. Show that they're human and they care about people, even if they don't have the time or inclination to solve the systemic problems that face the lower classes.
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May 6, 2014 12:53
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Opposing Farce posted:You're looking at it the wrong way. Everyone is the hero of their own story, as it were, and the things that will make your characters sympathetic to us are the things they like about themselves. Are they a caring parent? Are they loyal to their friends? Do they save kittens from trees? This is excellent general advice.
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May 6, 2014 21:53
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CommissarMega posted:Does anyone have any idea on how to make a group of arrogant nobles even vaguely sympathetic? As in, they know what they're doing to the lower classes is wrong, but they think they're still somehow morally, socially and/or even genetically superior? I'm writing something else entirely, but for some reason this plot element is bugging the hell out of me, and I don't want to let it go lest I lose a grand idea in the making or something. Give them flaws that the reader can see that makes the reader pity them. It will be hard to make it not sound like a 1st world problem but even the elite have social ills amongst themselves. Perhaps on noble's wife is constantly abused or certain offspring live in fear of being exterminated to make room for heirs. Just because they are rich doesn't meant there isn't another hierarchy ruling them.
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May 7, 2014 06:10
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CommissarMega posted:Does anyone have any idea on how to make a group of arrogant nobles even vaguely sympathetic? As in, they know what they're doing to the lower classes is wrong, but they think they're still somehow morally, socially and/or even genetically superior? I'm writing something else entirely, but for some reason this plot element is bugging the hell out of me, and I don't want to let it go lest I lose a grand idea in the making or something. How do you feel about eating meat? What would happen if one day the vegans finally got their way and it was illegal to eat meat? That's how I approach it. I love meat, I'll eat the poo poo out of it. I don't like how livestock is treated, and on some level I know it's not nice to raise an animal just to give me a meal, but, drat I love meat. And until they tell me I can't have it anymore, I'll feel a little bad about it if somebody wants to discuss the horrors of farming... but I'll still have a burger once they leave.
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May 7, 2014 06:38
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CommissarMega posted:Does anyone have any idea on how to make a group of arrogant nobles even vaguely sympathetic? As in, they know what they're doing to the lower classes is wrong, but they think they're still somehow morally, socially and/or even genetically superior? I'm writing something else entirely, but for some reason this plot element is bugging the hell out of me, and I don't want to let it go lest I lose a grand idea in the making or something. This question makes me think of a lot of the historical romance novels I used to read a lot when I was in middle/high school. They were almost always about dukes and duchesses and other aristocrats, but they felt fun and real (well, at least in the good books). Sylink pretty much describes how those romance authors made me care about those characters - while they have a pretty nice life in terms of physical comforts, a lot of the time they had trouble with relationships, or dealing with traumatic events (family members with terminal illnesses or death in general - one book had the protag's father die from a bee allergy; abusive parents/family members; horrors of war). You could also make them face the threat of social scandal (ex. Lydia Bennet elopes with Mr. Wickham). They had touching moments with close ones around them, etc. Every so often some books would mention how all these titled people thought about the lower classes, but that was almost always in passing - some might acknowledge it as wrong, but that was mostly all they did before going back to worrying about their own little bubbled lives. Sorry if my advice is totally useless. 
kurona_bright fucked around with this message at 06:53 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 06:50
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magnificent7 posted:How do you feel about eating meat? What would happen if one day the vegans finally got their way and it was illegal to eat meat? Read Chew
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May 7, 2014 13:13
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Holy poo poo, lots of help there guys, thanks!  I know it's dumb, but all of those literally never occurred to me- again, thanks for the help, especially magnificent7's tip.
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May 8, 2014 03:08
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Martello posted:I'm gonna switch POVs between chapters, not inside them, so no need for the *** or whatever. However I do plan on making their voices distinctly different. It's 3rd-person, not 1st, so it will be a little more tricky, but the narrative will take note of different things and use different terminology and so on. Bronco is a jaded, alcoholic street mercenary in his early 30s, and his girlfriend Holly is a 22 year-old college dropout with a baby girl and aspirations to eventually go back to school for her interior design degree. So they will notice very different things about the world around them and the people they interact with.
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May 8, 2014 10:25
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I've lost the passion.  I want to write a new story, I want to edit my old story, but I've got no drive. How do I get it back?
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May 8, 2014 22:06
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CantDecideOnAName posted:I've lost the passion. have you tried drugs? lots and lots of drugs?
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May 8, 2014 23:34
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^^ Ha ha, if only.CantDecideOnAName posted:I've lost the passion. First try to identify why you've lost the drive. Are you stressed about other things in your life? Have you lost the drive to do other things you used to enjoy? Are you exhausted all the time? Can you not concentrate on anything for long? Do you get enough exercise? Losing the will to do things you used to enjoy is often a symptom of deeper problems, either physical, mental, or external. Once you figure that poo poo out, you can see whether it's something you need to fix first or if you can power through it. blue squares posted:Infinite Jest, Broom of the System. Underworld. These have been on my reading list forever and I just never get around to them. I suppose I should, soon. Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 23:48 on May 8, 2014 |
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May 8, 2014 23:44
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Stuporstar posted:
If you haven't read infinite jest, you're missing out on some of the best writing... ever. It's the best book I've ever read.
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May 9, 2014 00:00
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blue squares posted:If you haven't read infinite jest, you're missing out on some of the best writing... ever. It's the best book I've ever read. Yeah, I read it for the first time last year and was like, "wait you're allowed to DO that with words?" no actually you're not allowed to do that, only David Foster Wallace is But folding that into Canty's question, I find it helpful to read things that I find absurdly inspiring. I get excited to go out there and try new stuff, and having a solid community to bounce it off of is of course extra incentive.
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May 9, 2014 01:29
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Haven't really had much inclination to read. Been stressed out of my mind with bullshit. I was hoping to start writing again to take my mind off of things and occupy my copious free time, but that doesn't seem to be the case. And not having anyone to bounce ideas off of is not helping. Do I just need to ride it out or...?
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May 9, 2014 01:50
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CantDecideOnAName posted:And not having anyone to bounce ideas off of is not helping. To preface, I'm a lazy rear end writer that doesn't write enough out of putting it off and being lazy (read: making excuses). This comment is bullshit, though. Goons are, on average, the best people I've come across on the internet. You've got people to bounce ideas off of. That is the only reason I was able to read your damned post. Let your ideas bounce; just make sure that they're in the form of a story instead of just a concept of what you want to do.
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May 9, 2014 01:57
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CantDecideOnAName posted:Haven't really had much inclination to read. Been stressed out of my mind with bullshit. I was hoping to start writing again to take my mind off of things and occupy my copious free time, but that doesn't seem to be the case. And not having anyone to bounce ideas off of is not helping. Not knowing the specifics of your stress, if it's mostly bullshit dragging you down, maybe reducing your load of bullshit would help. Decide which bullshit is important and which is just bullshit, and dump what you can. Also, I find my desire to read and write coincide. If I'm not reading, minimum, a book a week, my writing output is equally spotty. Coming out of a slump, I usually start with reading first, and the writing follows--basically Sitting Here's advice.
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May 9, 2014 01:58
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Would anyone be willing to help me iron out the mess that is my to-be-edited novel, then? That seems less stressful than trying to untangle the various ideas I have. I don't have PMs, though.
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May 9, 2014 02:17
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CantDecideOnAName posted:Would anyone be willing to help me iron out the mess that is my to-be-edited novel, then? That seems less stressful than trying to untangle the various ideas I have. I don't have PMs, though. I'll have a look at it. Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 06:46 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 02:24
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Stuporstar posted:I'll have a look at it. [email] Email sent. Thank you for offering to look it over--I've shared some of it before, so if it seems familiar that's why.
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May 9, 2014 03:05
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CantDecideOnAName posted:Haven't really had much inclination to read. Been stressed out of my mind with bullshit. I was hoping to start writing again to take my mind off of things and occupy my copious free time, but that doesn't seem to be the case. And not having anyone to bounce ideas off of is not helping. Is there ANYTHING you feel like doing? If so, I recommend doing that. For me personally, writing is one of the last things to come back after I'm in a funk. It just requires a lot of energy, and often tends to create more stress than it relieves. While I consider it worth it in the end, you won't ever see me saying I'm trying to write to relieve stress. :P It works differently for different people, though. Some posters here have described writing as more entertaining than reading any book or watching any TV show, and good for them. For me, it's frequently a struggle. Whatever. Similarly, is there anything you feel like reading? Sometimes I do not feel inclined to read because I am trying to make myself read what I think I "should" read, instead of what I want to read. Usually picking up some light fiction ("guilty" reading, but I don't feel guilty) picks me up again. Finally, you might try free writing--instead of trying to work on your novel, just write whatever. You could try writing another story, or just literally writing down whatever pops into your head. I like to do a form of focused free writing, where I write down why what I'm writing is frustrating me. Usually it's because I don't know a bunch of stuff that I need to know to make any progress on the actual story. So I'll write a bunch ABOUT my story, but without trying to actually find the right words to put IN the story. Some people might find that this borders too closely upon "world builder's disease"--where you write a lot of history/backstory/culture notes for your story, but never manage to work on the actual story. I guess it can devolve into that, but I find that asking myself questions about what I need to know usually keeps me on track. I fix a lot of problems this way, and it gets me excited and interested in the story again. I've resolved a lot of big plot and character issues in my writing this way. I also tend to think of bits of dialogue as I do this, because I kind of run through the story in my mind. (Full Disclosure: Still suck at finishing a project though!) Here's an example from a few days ago: quote:Neza blames herself for not protecting Gregor. Yay, I've worked out some of the emotions and motivations for my characters, and started to solidify how the inciting incident actually happens and leads to the events that follow! Two things that were not working for me that well in my first draft!
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May 9, 2014 03:24
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Is there ANYTHING you feel like doing? I guess what I want to do is acting, which coincidentally is one of the things taking up brainspace although not stressing me out. As for reading, I'm just trying to catch up on my WIRED backlog right now. And I do want to start building up a new world to write in, but I am so stuck because I have no idea what direction to go in. I want to write a religious zealot, because it seems like fun, but I've never created religions whole cloth before and it's overwhelming. And beyond that I don't really have any story. I have a bunch of ideas, but any time I start playing with one I wonder if there's even a good story in it and stop.
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May 9, 2014 04:01
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Finally, you might try free writing--instead of trying to work on your novel, just write whatever. You could try writing another story, or just literally writing down whatever pops into your head. I like to do a form of focused free writing, where I write down why what I'm writing is frustrating me. Usually it's because I don't know a bunch of stuff that I need to know to make any progress on the actual story. So I'll write a bunch ABOUT my story, but without trying to actually find the right words to put IN the story. Every day you exercise your writing muscles, even if you only write one sentence, is a better day than one you didn't write at all. Staying engaged with a story includes a lot of mental work as well, so any day you have an idea and write it down is a better day than one you don't write at all. Edit: I wrote two whole sentences of actual story today. Go me. Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 06:47 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 04:06
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:
This can really work - I've tried this before and it's felt like I'm letting go of the restriction to 'do it right'. So I'll just try to explain in layman's terms what is going on and why, and then I'll find some really nice phrase to describe that, and then carry on from there and oh poo poo I went back to writing again. Then just snip off the intro where you were warming up, and it turns out you've been productive after all. It's a really good method, for me anyway.
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May 9, 2014 08:03
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You should always write for fun first, success second. Usually the more fun I have writing something, the more successful it is anyway...funny how life works in your favor sometimes.
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May 9, 2014 15:26
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CantDecideOnAName posted:I'm just trying to catch up on my WIRED backlog right now. ...and I on my music backlog, and everyone else on their email backlogs. Funny how it's stuff that will keep getting created, forever. Another tip then: stop creating extra work for yourself. You'll fill the suitcase with socks before you manage to get a shoe in. And just "trying harder" may not solve the root issue. I read something pretty interesting on this, this morning (yeah, instead of doing you-know-what): http://www.farnamstreetblog.com/2014/05/work-love-and-play/
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May 9, 2014 18:51
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Symptomless Coma posted:...and I on my music backlog, and everyone else on their email backlogs. Funny how it's stuff that will keep getting created, forever. It's only a couple of magazines, and I end up skipping most of the articles anyway, but I know what you mean. Feeling overwhelmed is why I haven't really done much by way of serious editing yet.
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May 9, 2014 20:42
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I want to start writing short stories, but I have no idea how much "stuff" goes into one. After reading this thread, it appears that that the best solution is to read good short stories. Ideally, what I'd do is subscribe to the magazines that I'd be interested in submitting to, but I'm very poor. Instead, I was wondering if there were any anthologies that contain really good short stories. Preferably, I'm looking for genre fiction, but seeing how mainstream or literary short stories are structured could be incredibly helpful. Any assistance in regards to this would be greatly appreciated.
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May 10, 2014 14:51
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Get a Year's Best anthology edited by Strahan. Or just go to Clarkesworld and start reading everything they post.
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May 10, 2014 15:18
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General Battuta posted:Get a Year's Best anthology edited by Strahan. Or just go to Clarkesworld and start reading everything they post. Much appreciated, I will start checking these out.
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May 10, 2014 16:11
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Stephen Jones' Mammoth Books of... series are also pretty good at collecting short genre fiction titles, if you're looking for that kind of thing.
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May 11, 2014 09:10
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If you're into science-fiction and fantasy, a bunch of the pro mags are free to read online. http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/ http://www.strangehorizons.com/ http://dailysciencefiction.com/ (mostly flash, but longer stories on Fridays) http://www.beneath-ceaseless-skies.com/ http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/
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May 11, 2014 18:18
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What about horror/suspense/dark fantasy? I don't know the big markets for that genre.
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May 11, 2014 21:26
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