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Has anyone got any recommendations for good Warhammer Fantasy novels? I know there's a section in the OP but that's just one person's opinion and I don't know when that was last updated.
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May 1, 2014 11:49
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Stay away from the Darkblade series unless you really like multiple characters going, "This was my plan ALL along!" over and over again.
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May 1, 2014 13:35
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Weren't the Dark Angels basically dicking around waiting to find out who won the whole time?
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May 1, 2014 14:07
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:Weren't the Dark Angels basically dicking around waiting to find out who won the whole time? It's widely supported that Johnson was. Luther was probably the loyal one.
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May 1, 2014 14:18
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vigorous sodomy posted:It's widely supported that Johnson was. Luther was probably the loyal one. The Heresy stuff we've seen in Savage Weapons, Prince of Crows, Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels, and Unremembered Empire basically shits all over that theory, sadly. I always liked the theory but it's very, very explicit that Jonson was loyal and Luther was a traitor.
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May 1, 2014 14:26
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Owlkill posted:Has anyone got any recommendations for good Warhammer Fantasy novels? I know there's a section in the OP but that's just one person's opinion and I don't know when that was last updated. King's Gotrek and Felix novels are genuinely good fun reads. I haven't read them but the two Swords of the Emperor novels should be good.
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May 1, 2014 14:31
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VanSandman posted:King's Gotrek and Felix novels are genuinely good fun reads. I haven't read them but the two Swords of the Emperor novels should be good. I can support the Swords of the Emperor novels, especially the first one, in my opinion the writing in the second one gets progressively weaker, but still a good read nonetheless.
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May 1, 2014 14:55
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Owlkill posted:Has anyone got any recommendations for good Warhammer Fantasy novels? I know there's a section in the OP but that's just one person's opinion and I don't know when that was last updated.
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May 1, 2014 16:25
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Owlkill posted:Has anyone got any recommendations for good Warhammer Fantasy novels? I know there's a section in the OP but that's just one person's opinion and I don't know when that was last updated. The Mathias Thulman Witch Hunter novels were pretty good.
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May 1, 2014 19:51
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As for the Dark Angels' abundance of unusual weapons, I've always read it as an indication that as the First Legion, the Dark Angels were given pretty much every weapon ever considered for Space Marine use to field test. The Dark Angels being the Dark Angels, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave some of the better toys they tested a failing grade so they could keep them for own use rather than have them spread to other Legions in addition to having the fancy prototype gear. Papa Smurf seems to really dislike Legions that use non-standard organization and equipment. The Dark Angels are noted in Unremembered Empire to have a unique organizational structure built in the days when they were the only Astartes Legion and had to be uniquely independent and self-sufficient, and that they retain both their unique organization and a great deal of equipment that subsequent Legions do not share. I think he'd have a heart attack at the 40k era Space Wolves and pre-6E Black Templars.
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May 2, 2014 01:41
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Owlkill posted:Has anyone got any recommendations for good Warhammer Fantasy novels? I know there's a section in the OP but that's just one person's opinion and I don't know when that was last updated. I really enjoyed the Blackhearts series. I think it comes packaged as a three novel omnibus deal now.
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May 2, 2014 02:07
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Cythereal posted:As for the Dark Angels' abundance of unusual weapons, I've always read it as an indication that as the First Legion, the Dark Angels were given pretty much every weapon ever considered for Space Marine use to field test. The Dark Angels being the Dark Angels, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave some of the better toys they tested a failing grade so they could keep them for own use rather than have them spread to other Legions in addition to having the fancy prototype gear. If by Papa Smurf you meant Roboute Guilliman, I got the impression that he was actually pretty open to mixing it up where necessary. He would understand the need to be have a unique organizational structure in order to meet unique circumstances. It's only the later, dogmatic idiots who took his codex too far. Roboute with the codex/notes is like Ferrus with the hands. Dumb followers took that poo poo waaaay too far. Roboute has that quote about doing whatever works, even if whatever works goes against one of his rules/ideas. And Ferrus has that quote like hmmm y'know maybe I should get rid of these metal hands. DirtyRobot fucked around with this message at 13:24 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 13:20
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In addition to the organizational/equipment points mentioned above, I've also gotten the impression from various lore sources that the Dark Angels executed a number of shadow ops stuff early on in the Emperor's rise to power that were later suppressed / they aren't saying poo poo about. Kind of like Alpha Legion-esque stuff, except without the whole "complicated for complication's sake" angle.
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May 2, 2014 16:43
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Owlkill posted:Has anyone got any recommendations for good Warhammer Fantasy novels? I know there's a section in the OP but that's just one person's opinion and I don't know when that was last updated. A recent published one i enjoyed was Van Horstmann. Secret chaos wizard infiltrates college of light, hilarity ensues. http://www.blacklibrary.com/Warhammer/van-horstmann.html
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May 2, 2014 21:12
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Holy poo poo. BL did something that wasn't completely retarded. Night Lords omnibus is up for preorder as an ebook AND it's only £12. Actually in nerd shock right now.
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May 2, 2014 22:22
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I'm genuinely surprised by the pricing
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May 2, 2014 22:43
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Deptfordx posted:A recent published one i enjoyed was Van Horstmann. Secret chaos wizard infiltrates college of light, hilarity ensues.
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May 3, 2014 00:48
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I also knew the basic outline of the story from the WFRP 2nd edition Realms of Sorcery background. Didn't matter, still thought it was a fun story in execution even though i knew the outcome.
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May 3, 2014 12:13
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Having read the Eisenhorn / Ravenor series and the Inquisition War (disappointing in everything except world-building), I was still interested in more Inquisition stuff. So I've read a book that apparently impressed me so much that I don't remember the name of a single character, nor the title. Still, it was fun in a fluffy sort of way, and I wouldn't mind checking out a sequel (presuming it had one) An Inquisitor sends his team to investigate some thing on some world. Just as they arrive there, a merc group using xenotech busts open a prison containing a bunch of powerful psychics. They destroy the guard unit around the prison, and two of the guard survivors join the inquisitor team. Any ideas?
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May 4, 2014 00:32
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Xander77 posted:Having read the Eisenhorn / Ravenor series and the Inquisition War (disappointing in everything except world-building), I was still interested in more Inquisition stuff.
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May 4, 2014 00:39
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bunnyofdoom posted:Sounds exactly like the Dark Hersey tiemins from Sandy Mitchell
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May 4, 2014 00:50
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bunnyofdoom posted:Dark Hersey  ?Now I want to devise a DH campaign based on this pun.
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May 4, 2014 01:52
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Any opinions on the mars trilogy of books starting with Priests of Mars?
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May 4, 2014 09:57
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Priests of Mars is pretty good. There are a pretty cool couple of scenes with a group of titans, as well. It seems to be one of the McNeill books done really well. I haven't started book two though, so I can't comment on it.
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May 4, 2014 14:16
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Amdis posted:Any opinions on the mars trilogy of books starting with Priests of Mars? Priests of Mars was a genuinely good Mcneill book. Lord of Mars was horrible, and it felt like someone told him to shoe horn more dry bolter porn into his book. I am having a huge problem with the vengeful spirit, Mcneill just cannot write big action scenes, the final action scene is just so boring and dry, and yet this chapter just does not end. Also what the hell was the point of the Blood Angels in this book? You get 2 scenes with them. The leader blood angels climbing the important tower, and almost dying. Then the next scene, is near the end of the book and basically has them do a suicidal charge into the enemy lines. Then commit mass suicide infront of the red angel. Did someone tell Mcenill last miniute he cannot kill of the red angel mcguffin? So he just had them commit suicide? What was the point of the dog tags the commander was carrying, why did he mention killing imperial troops out in the jungle??? To me it seems like they wanted to have something more interesting for them. Also Mourn-it-all is still the dumbest name of a 40k weapon yet.
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May 4, 2014 17:16
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Amdis posted:Any opinions on the mars trilogy of books starting with Priests of Mars? It's mcneill's writing and also the plot is insanely meandering and slow. People seemed to like the first one which I find mystifying because I found it very boring and there's better titan/mechanicus books (e.g. Abnett, ADB). And as usual letting mcniell write things not already designed in the game is a bad idea, seen here with his annoying mary sue brain spider character. Vengeful spirit was fairly bad especially holy poo poo that ending scene, which I agree just went on forever and ended really poorly. Also I agree the blood angel thing was terrible and made no sense from a storytelling standpoint at all. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 17:38 on May 4, 2014 |
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May 4, 2014 17:35
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Finally read Prospero Burns after reading through the OP and realizing I'd missed this one, and I enjoyed it a lot more than I had expected to. I enjoyed A Thousand Sons and found the Thousand Sons much more sympathetic in their tireless pursuit of knowledge than the Emperor's executioners, even though the Thousand Sons and Magnus were quite obviously boned from the word go, but doing The Thirteenth Warrior with the Space Wolves was an interesting approach that I think Dan Abnett did very well with. I do have to wonder if we'll see this guy or any other Space Wolf skjalds/thralls in the future - I've always found the human characters who live and serve alongside the Astartes to be an interesting subject, and one that Dan Abnett, ADB, and Graham McNeil have all explored. On the whole, I'm not sure which I liked better. A Thousand Sons was the more traditional action-filled novel that included an extraneous and unneeded battle (I found the war at The Mountain That Eats Men to be dull and added nothing after introducing the characters) and also had one of the rare appearances by gay/bi characters in mainstream franchise science fiction and continued WH40k's consistently positive portrayal of them. Prospero Burns was definitely more creative and had more interesting characters by virtue of having fewer of them - I was definitely not expecting Leman Russ of all primarchs to seem down to earth and likable. Pleasantly surprised by this one, particularly after the circuitous slog of Legion.
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May 5, 2014 13:07
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Vengeful Spirit is so bad guys. It clearly has some important plot stuff that completely upends our understanding of the universe and the characters within it, but holy poo poo is this a slog. It feels like I'm being forced to read it as an assignment because it is a prerequisite rather than enjoying a story I am being told. It feels like reading Ethan Frome in high school all over again. And the worst part is so far they dodge on handing out the plot coupons, when plot coupons are the only reason to read this. Literally there is a sequence of scenes where Horus gains enlightenment, tells the mournival that the conventional understanding is wrong and the reality is this... Cut to half a chapter of Loken pissing and moaning about how he feels about his legion... Cut to Horus basically saying "and that is the true story" and then moving in, never actually telling us the super important thing he just told his crew. The only reason I am slogging through this is to learn the true story fool! Give me my plot coupons! I'm really tempted to start over, document it in detail, and post the summary on Lexicanum just so no one else has to go through this. Unremembered Empire was the close of act 1, wrapping up every thread and setting the stage for what is to come. Vengeful Spirit is the start of act 2, plucking all those strings and showing how the traitor legions are changing as they move toward earth. It is necessary for the plot coupons. But it is far from enjoyable.
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May 5, 2014 15:56
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Also on the subject of bad: Master of the Hunt audiodrama. The White Scars receive intel that Doomrider is going to make an appearance on some war-torn planet somewhere, so they find out where the summoning is taking place and literally stand there and wait for the summoning to complete so Doomrider can appear. This way, the White Scars can get retribution for the last three times Doomrider killed one of their Khans. Makes perfect sense! Terrible dialogue, dumb premise. Worst of all, there were no mountains of cocaine for Doomrider to ride down.
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May 5, 2014 16:16
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Holy poo poo I'd forgotten Doomrider was A Thing
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May 5, 2014 19:36
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In the context of the audio drama, Doomrider was probably one of the better parts, if that tells you anything about the quality of the package as a whole.
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May 5, 2014 20:14
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Gibfender posted:Holy poo poo I'd forgotten Doomrider was A Thing You're in good company, because so did the codex writers
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May 6, 2014 04:12
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I thought Vengeful Spirit was alright. I hated the bits with Horus because we know he's going to survive but we're forced to listen to fake melodrama but other than that it was decently written. Yeah there were some bits where you wished you knew exactly what happened, like where Horus talks about what happened with Emperor, but narratively you don't really have to know.
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May 6, 2014 04:40
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Well i finally forced myself to finish Vengeful Spirit, it dragged on way too long at some points. Mcneill cannot write decent battles to save his life. My biggest problem is how Horus is portrayed, at first he is portrayed as someone who just simply wants to remove the Emperor from power and take his throne. Leading to a much better galaxy spanning civilization. At certain points during the book he seems seemingly unaware of how much of a monster most people view him as, and seemingly still thinks he is doing stuff for the greater good. For example: When he captures the battleship and is surprised that the imperial commanders hate for him actually causes the commander to try and attack him. Or how he is confused as to why the people of Lupercalia are not cheering for him. He also makes a point of getting rid of most of the chaos-y stuff, e founding the mournvale, and mentioning how the Sons of Horus are a true legion, who are not slaves of chaos. But then at a bunch of points Mcneill throws that entire idea out of the window, by: Sons of Horus nailing the imperial commander to the land raider. Letting Tormaggeddon turn guys into hosts for warp spawn, and all the sorts of chaosy stuff going on the vengeful spirit. Horus: "Yeah Erebus is gone, we are going to become a true legion again!" Horus: "Demonically possessed space marines anyone?" I was honestly expecting Sons of Horus to go a way similar to that of the Night Lords, where Chaos is more a means to an end, and it even seems they were at some point, but Mcneill just kind of half threw it out the window. Aside from that what the hell was the point of the Blood Angels? They get a scene of their commander climbing the tower, they have apparently killed imperials out in the jungles, the guy has a bunch of dog tags, that apparently mean something. Then they drive out and charge into the Chaos lines, and commit suicide infront of the red angel  .
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May 6, 2014 17:01
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:I thought Vengeful Spirit was alright. When he was at Adepticon doing signings, I wanted to ask him if he gets a lot of poo poo for that story, but I didn't want to hold up the line. Should have done it anyway.
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May 6, 2014 17:03
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I finished "Vengeful Spirit" a few days ago. I really don't mind McNeill, and I don't think I've read a book of his I hated. Maybe thought wasn't the best, but never hated. Even his Ultramarines series was fun, albeit dumb fun. "Vengeful Spirit" I read purely for the plot. The characters were plot points, really. They even acknowledge it in a meta sort of way, where Abaddon acts all mean, and then they go "But he has to act mean! It's his role in the mournival" and if you take that from a reader's point of view, all the characters act that way in order to throw the plot along. As a result, I really don't care for any of them. Especially Loken. That scene where he finds out whatever her name is is alive, and he beats up Qruze for not telling him? It was so cliche. I hated it. Because you know, drat well, that in a few chapters one of them is going to die, or get close to it, and they make up. Low and behold that's exactly what happened! Horus I liked, to an extent. It's always nice to see primarchs do stuff that you don't usually see them doing. Like Angron in "Betrayer", where it turned a BLOOD BLOOD guy into an actual character. This book tried to do it with Horus, and it succeeded in parts, but what can you do with Horus, really? The afterword, McNeill says how the Horus Heresy has very little Horus in it and he wanted to fix that. I get that, but really, Horus is a slave to the plot. He can't have doubt or a character change. He wants to kill the Emperor, badly. Whatever his reasons, he has to do that. So he has to be the bad guy. They can dress him up, but at the end, his legion still has to be full of Chaos, he has to be a mass murderer, and he has to do what looks like stupid stuff, just to get to the end. That's why I think they glossed over what secret Horus was trying to find. He went over to the warp... And done, he's a real baddie now. But a strong one! Why? Who cares! All that matters is that he has to be able to stand toe to toe with the Big E! Which makes it, really, sort of a waste of time to work with Horus like McNeill did. That scene where the one lady tells him "There's good in you! I know it!". Yes, there is. Right before he dies. We all know it. So it feels forced. But, we got more Mortarion. That's always good.
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May 6, 2014 18:14
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I thought it was decent book. Like said before there is only so much you can do with Horus he has to fight the emperor he has to get amped up by the big 4 to be able to do it. So it nailed those points and it has no kurze so its a plus.
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May 6, 2014 18:45
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berzerkmonkey posted:On another board I frequent, everybody loves the book. I don't know - I think this thread suffers from "McNeill-itis" and automatically hates everything he writes. Note that I am not saying this is good or bad, I'm just saying it is what it is - everyone's tastes are different and this thread tends to lean anti-McNeill (which is completely understandable after the Fulgrim torture scene.) I think it's not really being anti-McNeil and more being spoiled by the better authors. I personally consider him very hit-or-miss; sometimes he delivers compelling stories with good characterization, but oftimes he does not. If you take the BL output as a whole then even his bad stories are definitely up there, however.
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May 6, 2014 18:57
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JerryLee posted:
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May 6, 2014 19:30
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Impaired Casing posted:The afterword, McNeill says how the Horus Heresy has very little Horus in it and he wanted to fix that. I get that, but really, Horus is a slave to the plot. This is a complaint I have about a number of characters and forces in the Horus Heresy series, to be honest. We know the major points of how everything unfolds, but more effort goes into some characters and groups than others. The fall of the World Eaters and Angron, for example, is a good story about a good group of characters - we know they're going to become Khorne's chosen and Angron a daemon prince, but Betrayer made that feel like a natural consequence of the story rather than a script box the book had to check. Then you have books like Legion, which go "Alpha Legion is sneaky and needs to turn traitor, make Alpha Legion go traitor and stay sneaky." I had hoped the massive book series format would alleviate the problem of having too many characters and stories to give them all good attention and effort, but a fair few of the books have felt pointless. There were about ten pages of Legion that mattered. The Dark Angels books were okay stories but had nothing to do with the Heresy or its characters. Prospero Burns was a good story, but I'm glad A Thousand Sons exists as well to keep the overall Heresy thread moving. I actually like Nemesis as a book, but it contributes nothing to the series. The Unremembered Empire would be full of interesting plot developments if it wasn't telegraphing hard that none of this was going to matter to the extent that Papa Smurf acknowledges the fact that it's all meaningless in the story itself.
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May 6, 2014 20:11
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