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Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003
I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.
Soiled Meat


Honey has one bloodshot eye as of today. Serious, or should I wait a couple days?

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Psychobabble!
Jun 22, 2010

Observing this filth unsettles me

compton rear end terry posted:

So it may be Riley is spoiled, or it could be his teeth. He just doesn't seem to like his dry food. Vet suggested mixing it with some wet food and he ate it all. This evening I fed his dry food with some chicken broth and he destroyed that as well. All is good for now, just need to figure out if he is high maintenance or dry food hurts his teeth.

Could be one, the other, both, or neither. I would start by having a vet check over his teeth if they haven't already, just to be safe. You could try a different protein source as some dogs are picky about flavor. I'm guessing the dog chowed down with wet food or chicken broth was because it made it more aromic, so you could also try using warm water if you are ever out of wet/chicken broth or just to mix it up. Some dogs just plain dont like certain kinds of protein.


BaseballPCHiker posted:

We've had our new puppy for a little over 3 weeks now. She is doing well by herself at home, no whining when we leave or are gone and no accidents inside the house. When do I start to give her a little more freedom from being in the crate while I'm gone at work? She is currently 8 months old. Also when can I start leaving at night to run errands, go to the gym, just be out of the house for 60-90 minutes? I walk her in the morning, on my lunch break and then one big long 45-60 minute walk at night with some extra potty breaks at night. Is she getting enough exercise from these walks? Would it be ok for me to leave her home in the crate for a while at night so that I can leave the house for a bit?

As a middle step to letting her have free range, you should consider picking up an x pen, generally advised to be in a room with hardwood/linoleum/not carpet floors(I used the kitchen but now have it in the living room with a couple layers of blanket underneath). With an x pen they get some space to stretch out and move around, but you can control what they have access to a lot better. I leave my puppy in there with a couple chews of different textures and a toy she likes. She isn't particularly destructive or a big chewer though so YMMV. She's just shy of 6 months and is happy to stay in there overnight or for 8+ hours during the day with no problem, but she's kind of a freak and has always been able to go long stretches without going out and is pretty low energy. It really depends on the dog but like mcswizzle said, give it a few trial runs and see. If you can, set up a video recording device of some sort so you can see how she does when you're gone.

As far as exercise goes, again it really depends on the dog. If the dog isn't bouncing off the walls and/or becoming destructive, you're probably good. Keep in mind you can also wear them out with stuff like tug, and that training/mental exercise is also very exhausting for a puppy. Keep the sessions short(5~ mins) and fun.


Steve Yun posted:



Honey has one bloodshot eye as of today. Serious, or should I wait a couple days?

IANAV but I would err on the side of caution and go to the vet. Don't gently caress with eye issues.

Kerfuffle
Aug 16, 2007

The sky calls to us~

Psychobabble! posted:

IANAV but I would err on the side of caution and go to the vet. Don't gently caress with eye issues.
Yep. Doubly so because it's a toy breed with a weird skull.

Downhome
Jul 5, 2012
Hi guys, we have an 8 week old Boston Terrier named Betty, we got her a week ago. I posted an introduction for her in the picture thread. Here is a link directly to that post if you want to catch up...

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3171820&pagenumber=65#post429086813

And a picture of her...



Anyway, I have two concerns right now. The first one I'm not even sure I should be worried about or not. She is seemingly sleeping all night long in the crate without whining, crying, barking, or even going potty without letting us know. The first two or three nights was a nightmare, getting me up almost every single hour. I didn't even think a puppy could hold it all night, like physically couldn't hold it. Is this something I should be worried about it or is it possible that this is normal? It has been three or four nights in a row now where she has slept all night, then when we wake up around 7am she is either still asleep or just laying in there being quiet playing or chewing on her chew bone.

The second one is more serious, I realize that.

Her first vet visit went fine, but we heard one of the last things we wanted to hear. She doesn't have parvo, that's fine. The doctor checked everything out, said she looked perfect, great breathing, great gums, etc... He then took out the stethoscope and listened to hear heart for a short while.

He said, "well, I hate to bust your bubble" and I freaked out. I asked what, and he laid it on us - she has a class 1 to 2 heart murmur. He even suggested just taking her back already and I said there is no way we could do that at this point. He did go on to say that sometimes these things just close up and goes away, but it could also get worse. So it could get better, stay the same, or get worse.

Do any of you guys have ANY experience with this at all? Have it be with a Boston or just any other kind of dog or animal? I'm totally freaking out now.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Downhome posted:


Anyway, I have two concerns right now. The first one I'm not even sure I should be worried about or not. She is seemingly sleeping all night long in the crate without whining, crying, barking, or even going potty without letting us know. The first two or three nights was a nightmare, getting me up almost every single hour. I didn't even think a puppy could hold it all night, like physically couldn't hold it. Is this something I should be worried about it or is it possible that this is normal? It has been three or four nights in a row now where she has slept all night, then when we wake up around 7am she is either still asleep or just laying in there being quiet playing or chewing on her chew bone.

The second one is more serious, I realize that.

Her first vet visit went fine, but we heard one of the last things we wanted to hear. She doesn't have parvo, that's fine. The doctor checked everything out, said she looked perfect, great breathing, great gums, etc... He then took out the stethoscope and listened to hear heart for a short while.

He said, "well, I hate to bust your bubble" and I freaked out. I asked what, and he laid it on us - she has a class 1 to 2 heart murmur. He even suggested just taking her back already and I said there is no way we could do that at this point. He did go on to say that sometimes these things just close up and goes away, but it could also get worse. So it could get better, stay the same, or get worse.

Do any of you guys have ANY experience with this at all? Have it be with a Boston or just any other kind of dog or animal? I'm totally freaking out now.

Sleeping through the night is fine and I wouldn't worry about it.

The heart murmur is obviously pretty bad news, and I'm sorry you'll have to deal with it. They can go away as the pup matures, or they may be a continuing problem and can eventually result in heart failure. If you're keeping her, make sure to check back at the vet in a couple weeks to see if it fades. If it doesn't, regular vet visits should be booked.

Have you spoken to the breeder?

Downhome
Jul 5, 2012

a life less posted:

Sleeping through the night is fine and I wouldn't worry about it.

The heart murmur is obviously pretty bad news, and I'm sorry you'll have to deal with it. They can go away as the pup matures, or they may be a continuing problem and can eventually result in heart failure. If you're keeping her, make sure to check back at the vet in a couple weeks to see if it fades. If it doesn't, regular vet visits should be booked.

Have you spoken to the breeder?

Haven't spoken to the breeder. It was from a couple who both just happened to own a Boston and they had one litter of pups before they had them fixed. Not a puppy farm by any means, but not a registered breeder or anything. We wouldn't take her back or anything like that regardless, we are far too attached and love her way too much. Whatever happens we're in it for the long haul. I'm almost glad we got her and not someone else. I hate to imagine what some people would have done as a result of such news.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Downhome posted:

Haven't spoken to the breeder. It was from a couple who both just happened to own a Boston and they had one litter of pups before they had them fixed. Not a puppy farm by any means, but not a registered breeder or anything. We wouldn't take her back or anything like that regardless, we are far too attached and love her way too much. Whatever happens we're in it for the long haul.

This is a perfect example of why you want to get a puppy from dogs who have been health tested for common genetic disease and work with a breeder who will offer support for the life of her puppies.

I'm hoping your girl lives a long and happy life. Just keep it in mind for any future dogs, or when friends talk about it.

Downhome
Jul 5, 2012

a life less posted:

This is a perfect example of why you want to get a puppy from dogs who have been health tested for common genetic disease and work with a breeder who will offer support for the life of her puppies.

I'm hoping your girl lives a long and happy life. Just keep it in mind for any future dogs, or when friends talk about it.

Oh trust me, we know that. We would never, ever do it again but we don't regret doing it this time even though we swore we would NEVER buy a pet like this. We bought out cat from a breeder with papers and a generational family tree, and so on and paid a large amount of money to make sure all was fine. We know it was a mistake but we were tempted. Again, we don't regret getting her since we love her so much, but we would never ever buy one like this again no matter what happens.

Instant Jellyfish
Jul 3, 2007

Actually not a fish.



Downhome posted:

Haven't spoken to the breeder. It was from a couple who both just happened to own a Boston and they had one litter of pups before they had them fixed. Not a puppy farm by any means, but not a registered breeder or anything. We wouldn't take her back or anything like that regardless, we are far too attached and love her way too much. Whatever happens we're in it for the long haul. I'm almost glad we got her and not someone else. I hate to imagine what some people would have done as a result of such news.

At very least you should tell them so they can let the other puppy owners know so they can discuss it with their vets. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for a pup to be returned to a caring breeder (or caring couple with some dogs they bred) if the owner feels they aren't prepared a dog with heart problems.

You may want to ask to be referred to a veterinary cardiologist for a more thorough diagnosis and to discuss what the murmur may mean long term for your pup.

luscious
Mar 8, 2005

Who can find a virtuous woman,
For her price is far above rubies.
I read your intro in the pics thread and am kinda confused as to why you're taking her to her indoor peepad when you can take her outside? I would cut out any indoor peepad as you don't want her doggie to get confused - especially if you have the means to take her outside.

Downhome
Jul 5, 2012

luscious posted:

I read your intro in the pics thread and am kinda confused as to why you're taking her to her indoor peepad when you can take her outside? I would cut out any indoor peepad as you don't want her doggie to get confused - especially if you have the means to take her outside.

Hmmm, well I'll totally admit that this is my first indoor puppy. I grew up on a farm and have had dogs all my life, but they have always been outside dogs. We have the pee pads to put down for when she is in her play pen or when I can't watch her constantly here inside. Is that not something that can be done as well? I completely understand how it could technically confuse her. Anyone else got any advice?

Last week we went to Petsmart and got the new puppy package since it had a coupon to buy her first bag of food for completely free. I was looking through it and I saw that there was a coupon for a completely free visit to the Banfield Pet Hospital there in the back of the store. Since my previous posts here I called them and they said I could bring her by. I showed up at 2:45 and explained to them how I was just looking for a second opinion on what the other vet told me. Well, the assistant/nurse lady listened, couldn't hear anything. The vet came in, listened, didn't hear anything. She then took her to the back to an isolated room away from all the commotion to calm Betty down so she could really listen closely, and again she didn't hear anything. She let others in the back, and another vet, listen and they all said that they couldn't hear anything and that it was perfectly normal. They explained that it is possible that it has already gone away. One cause could have been when she was wormed it could have been done the morning I adopted her, and that can cause a short term thinning of the blood which can cause the "whoosh" sound you hear that sounds like a typical murmur.

Now I'm obviously thrilled about this but I'm not so sure what to think. Is this truly possible?

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011

Although it is possible that a Grade 1-2 heart murmur can be something bad in a puppy (especially considering where it was heard loudest), benign murmurs (ones that go away without causing issue) are common in puppies.

ThatPazuzu
Sep 8, 2011

I'm so depressed, I can't even blink.
I've been trying to socialize Buddy and I'm getting mixed results. He's universally good with people. However dogs are another story. He is very good with dogs his size or smaller, giving them sniffs n licks, and my cousin's big old mutt. But on our walks he growls at (but never attempts to bite) bigger dogs that would destroy him in a fight. What can I do to make him be friendly with all dogs?

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

ThatPazuzu posted:

I've been trying to socialize Buddy and I'm getting mixed results. He's universally good with people. However dogs are another story. He is very good with dogs his size or smaller, giving them sniffs n licks, and my cousin's big old mutt. But on our walks he growls at (but never attempts to bite) bigger dogs that would destroy him in a fight. What can I do to make him be friendly with all dogs?

Short answer: you can't make a dog dog-friendly, though your pup is young enough that you can stack the odds with gentle introductions to carefully-chosen big dogs. A good choice for a big dog partner would be one who gives other dogs plenty of space but is willing to play when invited. You can decrease leash reactivity by making treats fall from the sky when he sees a big dog on a walk.

Suzanne Clothier has a long article on human perceptions of dog-dog rectivity (and why it's not always a bad thing that you have to train away): http://www.suzanneclothier.com/the-articles/he-just-wants-say-hi

WickedHate
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax
JoJo has been doing absolutely phenomenal. She's doing great with others, and really starting to feel at home. I'm so happy for her.

Cute as heck
Nov 6, 2011

:h:Cutie Pie Swag~:h:
Does anyone know of any Shiba Inu breeders in New York? I've been trying to find one for dang near 2 months now and all I can find is geocities monstrosities that haven't been updated in 2+ years. And those are the NY Shiba Club recommended breeders! I refuse to believe there's not a single place with Shibas somewhere in NY (preferably out on LI) :(



Also sorry if this isn't the right place to ask, but I'm not really sure where else to go. Everywhere else is full of intimidating crazy people who unironically use the term "furbaby" and would rather spend their time chastising me for not wanting to adopt a chihuahua from my local shelter or lecturing me on how SHIBAS ARE TERRIBLE DOGS AND WHY I DON'T DESERVE ONE (Why is this the generalization, does any other dog have this bad of a rap?)

thatbastardken
Apr 23, 2010

A contract signed by a minor is not binding!
Plenty of dogs have worse reputations, but shibes are notoriously stubborn and don't give a gently caress about their owners. Also they are a flavour of the month dog so picking a reputable breeder will probably result in being put on a lengthy waiting list. Can't give you any specific info I'm afraid.

cryingscarf
Feb 4, 2007

~*FaBuLoUs*~

Cute as heck posted:

SHIBAS ARE TERRIBLE DOGS AND WHY I DON'T DESERVE ONE (Why is this the generalization, does any other dog have this bad of a rap?)

Generally, it is good to look at a breed's worst characteristics before you consider getting a dog of that breed. If you can look at the worst case scenario and still be okay with the breed, then great! You're ready for it. But if you hear all the possible negatives and start freaking out, then it might be best to look into a different breed. IMO it is a good method of determining if you are a good fit for the breed. And yes a lot of breeds have that sort of rap (for example, there is one for JRTs that gets cited by rescues all the time that basically says JRTS ARE AWFUL FOR ALL THE FOLLOWING REASONS)

Abutiu
Oct 21, 2013

Cute as heck posted:

Does anyone know of any Shiba Inu breeders in New York? I've been trying to find one for dang near 2 months now and all I can find is geocities monstrosities that haven't been updated in 2+ years. And those are the NY Shiba Club recommended breeders! I refuse to believe there's not a single place with Shibas somewhere in NY (preferably out on LI) :(



Also sorry if this isn't the right place to ask, but I'm not really sure where else to go. Everywhere else is full of intimidating crazy people who unironically use the term "furbaby" and would rather spend their time chastising me for not wanting to adopt a chihuahua from my local shelter or lecturing me on how SHIBAS ARE TERRIBLE DOGS AND WHY I DON'T DESERVE ONE (Why is this the generalization, does any other dog have this bad of a rap?)

Are you actually calling breeders or just moving on if they don't have an updated website? Dog breeders are kind of notorious for having lovely or outdated sites for some reason. If you're serious about getting a Shiba, you'll probably have to start calling around and visiting in person.

And yeah, Shibas are fairly difficult dogs who are also very popular right now, so a lot of people want to get them without really understanding what owning a Shiba entails. That's why you're getting people telling you how difficult they are. It's an effort to make sure you've actually thought this through and understand what your life will be like with one of them. And any even slightly difficult breed gets the same reaction. I have heelers and I see the same thing all the time on breed sites for them.

LooksLikeABabyRat
Jun 26, 2008

Oh dang, I'd nibble that cheese

Hey guys! It's been awhile since I posted about my mini-aussie Ellie, so here are some more pics!

She's a fantastic 7 month old pup, and my fianceé and I love her to pieces. She's still really shy around strangers, but she approached one the other day and sniffed his hand without prompting. Progress!







The only issue we're still having is submissive peeing. It's especially bad when I get home from work (I work from home 1-2 days per week, so she's only left at home for 3-4 days a week). We're still penning her when we're not home, even though she's almost surely potty trained by now, just because of the submissive peeing.

Right now, if I want to take her out for a walk (and she's not penned) I'll either trick her into sitting next to me on the couch or bed (she's catching on though) and scoop her up, or I'll crouch really low on the floor with her leash and try to get her to come to me. Usually she will eventually come, but not before piddling on the floor. The longer it's been since she's been outside, the bigger the puddle.

If she's penned, I can just reach over, attach her leash, and she'll still leave a 6" diameter puddle when I'm done.

If she gets an afternoon walk (on WFH days or weekends) she usually won't submissively pee.

If my fianceé approaches her to take her for a walk, she's totally fine. Sometimes she'll have to make an effort to get her on the leash, but there's never any peeing. It only happens with me. I'm the first one home on work days as well, so I have to take her out when I get home.

Any one have any experience with this? I know I'm supposed to be patient with her, but cleaning up pee sucks. Is she probably ready to be left to her own devices at home?

Skizzles
Feb 21, 2009

Live, Laugh, Love,
Poop in a box.

Cute as heck posted:

SHIBAS ARE TERRIBLE DOGS AND WHY I DON'T DESERVE ONE (Why is this the generalization, does any other dog have this bad of a rap?)

In addition to what cryingscarf said, some breeds do get a similar rap (amongst dog nerds, anyway). Shibas can be stubborn divas, but for people who love the breed that's part of the charm for them. I like shibas, but they're not a breed I would be interested in owning. German shepherds are pretty susceptible to becoming neurotic and reactive (not to mention the potential health issues if you get a poorly bred one) - a "worst case scenario" GSD can be godawful. Yet I've been super drawn to the breed for years and it's one of the only breeds I would consider owning. But in general the primitive breeds like Shibas are (typically) not your "cuddly, loyal companion" kind of dog, which throws many people off.

Abutiu
Oct 21, 2013

LooksLikeABabyRat posted:

Any one have any experience with this? I know I'm supposed to be patient with her, but cleaning up pee sucks.

Are you rewarding her for coming to you/getting the leash put on, or just taking her outside once you've got it clipped on? Do you ever put it on, reward her, then take it right off and let her go again?

Otherwise, my main advice would be to figure out what's different in your approach vs. your fiancee's since she doesn't do it with your fiancee. You might be coming on too strong or something. Pay attention to subtle body language stuff too; for timid dogs sometimes something as simple as making eye contact can freak them out.

LooksLikeABabyRat
Jun 26, 2008

Oh dang, I'd nibble that cheese

Abutiu posted:

Are you rewarding her for coming to you/getting the leash put on, or just taking her outside once you've got it clipped on? Do you ever put it on, reward her, then take it right off and let her go again?

Otherwise, my main advice would be to figure out what's different in your approach vs. your fiancee's since she doesn't do it with your fiancee. You might be coming on too strong or something. Pay attention to subtle body language stuff too; for timid dogs sometimes something as simple as making eye contact can freak them out.


I haven't done any of those suggestions, but I'll certainly give them a try.

ThatPazuzu
Sep 8, 2011

I'm so depressed, I can't even blink.

Engineer Lenk posted:

Short answer: you can't make a dog dog-friendly, though your pup is young enough that you can stack the odds with gentle introductions to carefully-chosen big dogs. A good choice for a big dog partner would be one who gives other dogs plenty of space but is willing to play when invited. You can decrease leash reactivity by making treats fall from the sky when he sees a big dog on a walk.

Suzanne Clothier has a long article on human perceptions of dog-dog rectivity (and why it's not always a bad thing that you have to train away): http://www.suzanneclothier.com/the-articles/he-just-wants-say-hi

Thanks. I read the article and rethought the times he's growled at dogs and realized that I could probably be doing more to comfort him. He mostly does this when in unfamiliar locations so that stress is probably a contributing factor. Oddly, he's good with small dogs wherever but, whatever.

Also, a nice little note: Buddy was never a fan of cuddling or petting. He'd let me do it, but obviously he wasn't really into it and sometimes it made him nervous. But I think he must be getting a lot more comfortable with me because over the last few days he seems to be liking them more and even initiating belly rubs.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

ThatPazuzu posted:

Thanks. I read the article and rethought the times he's growled at dogs and realized that I could probably be doing more to comfort him. He mostly does this when in unfamiliar locations so that stress is probably a contributing factor. Oddly, he's good with small dogs wherever but, whatever.

Also, a nice little note: Buddy was never a fan of cuddling or petting. He'd let me do it, but obviously he wasn't really into it and sometimes it made him nervous. But I think he must be getting a lot more comfortable with me because over the last few days he seems to be liking them more and even initiating belly rubs.

It took Thor over a year to get to the point where he would come and actually ask for petting. Some dogs are just really averse to touching until they are super comfortable with you. Now we have the opposite problem - He won't give us any space on the bed and if we kick him out before we sleep, he sneaks in the moment we're both out and we wake up with the covers pulled completely off of us. It'd be cute if it wasn't such a dick move :)

Downhome
Jul 5, 2012
I bet there is a thread here just for housebreaking a puppy, but I can't search. Anyone here got any tips other than the basics? We are taking her out first thing every morning, last thing at night, as soon as she wakes up, as soon as she finishes eating, and as soon as she finishes playing at all. Even with doing this she is still pissing just constantly. Take her out to play and run around with our cat, she always pees in the middle of it totally out of the blue. She pees in her play pen, and more.

What we were doing is keeping a pee pad in her playpen and she was using it, and we had a pee pad on the floor for when she is playing in the main parts of the house and she was pretty much using that as well. We read not to do that AND take her outside so we took the pads up and ever since then she's just pissing anywhere she wants whenever she wants.

Is it because we have been keeping water down for her? Should we only have water down for her at meals? Any other advice?

Thwomp
Apr 10, 2003

BA-DUHHH

Grimey Drawer
Read the guide in the OP. I believe there's a great big section on housebreaking link to a guide in addition to links to Ian Dunbar's blog with a housebreaking guide.

Essentially, ditch the pee pads (especially in the crate!) and adopt a strict schedule. How old is your puppy?

mcswizzle
Jul 26, 2009

Downhome posted:

I bet there is a thread here just for housebreaking a puppy, but I can't search. Anyone here got any tips other than the basics? We are taking her out first thing every morning, last thing at night, as soon as she wakes up, as soon as she finishes eating, and as soon as she finishes playing at all. Even with doing this she is still pissing just constantly. Take her out to play and run around with our cat, she always pees in the middle of it totally out of the blue. She pees in her play pen, and more.

What we were doing is keeping a pee pad in her playpen and she was using it, and we had a pee pad on the floor for when she is playing in the main parts of the house and she was pretty much using that as well. We read not to do that AND take her outside so we took the pads up and ever since then she's just pissing anywhere she wants whenever she wants.

Is it because we have been keeping water down for her? Should we only have water down for her at meals? Any other advice?

For housebreaking the general rule of thumb is that the puppy is not allowed to be unsupervised. I started by taking them out every hour on the hour (set an egg timer!) plus before/after naps and after play time. As they get better you can give more time between potty breaks. Start with 30 minute jumps (ever 1 1/2 hours). If that's too much, go back to 1hr at a time, then after 0 accidents, then bump up to 1.15hrs.

Systematically add to the timer, and eventually you'll be at a couple of hours between breaks. At this point, you might want to give a little more freedom to the dog but be careful. It could have a few accidents "because I didn't get to the door fast enough" or "I was putting on my boots" and that can set you back some of that training time. Be diligent. Don't let the pup around unsupervised. DON'T punish the dog for accidents.

If you can't watch the dog, crate it. If you're not crate training, xpen, bathroom, someplace that you can use to isolate the pup and keep them from making a mess.

Dogs are denning animals and generally try to avoid soiling their den. It'll start with the crate/xpen/bathroom and you'll have to slowly start building that up until they're accustomed to not soiling anywhere in the house.

Of the same token, you can expect the pup to hold its bladder about as many hours as it is old (in months) for example, a 3 month old pup might be able to hold it for about 3 hours. This isn't a hard and fast rule, but a rule of thumb. It could be longer, it might not be as long. You'll have to get a feel for your pup.

If you have to, leash them to you by attaching it to your belt/belt loop or something like that. It takes a while for it to be a sure thing (we still have accidents once in a while after a year) but they're infrequent and typically because of a human. My fiance wakes up in the morning and goes to the bathroom before taking the dogs out (but lets them out of the crate/bedroom) and wonders why they have accidents. When I get up first I take the dogs out first and we never have accidents. v0v.

Downhome
Jul 5, 2012

Thwomp posted:

Read the guide in the OP. I believe there's a great big section on housebreaking link to a guide in addition to links to Ian Dunbar's blog with a housebreaking guide.

Essentially, ditch the pee pads (especially in the crate!) and adopt a strict schedule. How old is your puppy?

Thanks for that link, I'll check it out. And on the pee pads, while we were using them in the house for the first few days we never put one in the crate. The first couple of nights she was waking us up every single hour. I will assume that was just because she was scared because of the changes, because ever since then she has been sleeping all through the night from the time we get in bed (around 12am or so) and sleeping until we get up (around 7am or so). She hasn't done anything in the crate at all, and is sleeping through the night, so she took to that part of the schedule very quickly. She doesn't even wake us up in the morning. My wife wakes up to take a shower and get ready, and she sleeps through that. We look over and she's either still sound asleep or she is in there awake but chewing on a toy bone almost as if she is just waiting patiently for her morning potty break.



mcswizzle posted:

For housebreaking the general rule of thumb is that the puppy is not allowed to be unsupervised. I started by taking them out every hour on the hour (set an egg timer!) plus before/after naps and after play time. As they get better you can give more time between potty breaks. Start with 30 minute jumps (ever 1 1/2 hours). If that's too much, go back to 1hr at a time, then after 0 accidents, then bump up to 1.15hrs.

Systematically add to the timer, and eventually you'll be at a couple of hours between breaks. At this point, you might want to give a little more freedom to the dog but be careful. It could have a few accidents "because I didn't get to the door fast enough" or "I was putting on my boots" and that can set you back some of that training time. Be diligent. Don't let the pup around unsupervised. DON'T punish the dog for accidents.

If you can't watch the dog, crate it. If you're not crate training, xpen, bathroom, someplace that you can use to isolate the pup and keep them from making a mess.

Dogs are denning animals and generally try to avoid soiling their den. It'll start with the crate/xpen/bathroom and you'll have to slowly start building that up until they're accustomed to not soiling anywhere in the house.

Of the same token, you can expect the pup to hold its bladder about as many hours as it is old (in months) for example, a 3 month old pup might be able to hold it for about 3 hours. This isn't a hard and fast rule, but a rule of thumb. It could be longer, it might not be as long. You'll have to get a feel for your pup.

If you have to, leash them to you by attaching it to your belt/belt loop or something like that. It takes a while for it to be a sure thing (we still have accidents once in a while after a year) but they're infrequent and typically because of a human. My fiance wakes up in the morning and goes to the bathroom before taking the dogs out (but lets them out of the crate/bedroom) and wonders why they have accidents. When I get up first I take the dogs out first and we never have accidents. v0v.

She is only barely 8 weeks old so I do get that this will continue for a while. Oh, and we absolutely haven't punished her or anything like that. I understand you can't do anything even close to that, and we wouldn't want to anyway.

My wife just dies to let Betty run around with our cat playing when she is here when she gets off work. I completely disagree as far as letting her out of our sight at all, but she swears it's fine. Almost every time I go and sure enough find she peed while running around the corner out of our sight. I may have to just tell her that she can NEVER be out of our sight at all until she understands more of what is going on. Maybe the issue is how I deal with her during the day (I lost my job just over a week ago, the day before we got her, so as of right now I'm home all day long) and then how my wife wants to deal with her when she gets home from work at night.

Also, this weekend we didn't keep to the same exact schedule. Is it safe to assume that we pretty much need to live each day the exact same, even on weekends? Wake up at the same time, and so on? I guess that goes without saying though, so I assume I also know the answer to that one already.

This is my first inside dog, and I love her to death but I want to cut the accidents down as much as possible. I don't want to have dog pee just everywhere.

On the bright side, at least it doesn't smell as horrible as cat pee. Thank God you don't have to really housebreak a cat, not like you do with a dog, lol.

Is it too early to start trying to train Betty to ring a bell to alert us that she needs to go out? I was looking at the Tell Bell, a small desk bell type of thing with a larger plunger on top for a dog's paw.

I should also mention that she has only had a poo accident once in the house, and that was the day we got her, and that was only because we didn't know her feeding schedule before we took over. Ever since then, and we set her on our own feeding schedule, she has went outside every single time. Thank God. I don't think that's really ever a major thing for housebreaking dogs though, right?

Downhome fucked around with this message at 22:07 on May 5, 2014

Sgt. Shaved Balls
Sep 6, 2006

by Lowtax
My friend recently got a 9 week old Shiba Inu puppy, it's been two days and is having some extremely bad separation anxiety because it had up to now been with a dozen other siblings and so it's been quite an abrupt change. The dog has been seen eating and drinking but only once or twice in two days.

A vet visit is scheduled for tomorrow but is there anything to worry about regarding the dog trembling in fear when it sees his new owner? We know to make yourself small and non-threatening and speak in a calm voice but will any of this anxiety cause problems with the dog long term since it's scared out of it's mind whenever it sees a person?

Any help is appreciated!

mcswizzle
Jul 26, 2009

Downhome posted:

Thanks for that link, I'll check it out. And on the pee pads, while we were using them in the house for the first few days we never put one in the crate. The first couple of nights she was waking us up every single hour. I will assume that was just because she was scared because of the changes, because ever since then she has been sleeping all through the night from the time we get in bed (around 12am or so) and sleeping until we get up (around 7am or so). She hasn't done anything in the crate at all, and is sleeping through the night, so she took to that part of the schedule very quickly. She doesn't even wake us up in the morning. My wife wakes up to take a shower and get ready, and she sleeps through that. We look over and she's either still sound asleep or she is in there awake but chewing on a toy bone almost as if she is just waiting patiently for her morning potty break.


She is only barely 8 weeks old so I do get that this will continue for a while. Oh, and we absolutely haven't punished her or anything like that. I understand you can't do anything even close to that, and we wouldn't want to anyway.

My wife just dies to let Betty run around with our cat playing when she is here when she gets off work. I completely disagree as far as letting her out of our sight at all, but she swears it's fine. Almost every time I go and sure enough find she peed while running around the corner out of our sight. I may have to just tell her that she can NEVER be out of our sight at all until she understands more of what is going on. Maybe the issue is how I deal with her during the day (I lost my job just over a week ago, the day before we got her, so as of right now I'm home all day long) and then how my wife wants to deal with her when she gets home from work at night.

Also, this weekend we didn't keep to the same exact schedule. Is it safe to assume that we pretty much need to live each day the exact same, even on weekends? Wake up at the same time, and so on? I guess that goes without saying though, so I assume I also know the answer to that one already.

This is my first inside dog, and I love her to death but I want to cut the accidents down as much as possible. I don't want to have dog pee just everywhere.

On the bright side, at least it doesn't smell as horrible as cat pee. Thank God you don't have to really housebreak a cat, not like you do with a dog, lol.

Is it too early to start trying to train Betty to ring a bell to alert us that she needs to go out? I was looking at the Tell Bell, a small desk bell type of thing with a larger plunger on top for a dog's paw.

I should also mention that she has only had a poo accident once in the house, and that was the day we got her, and that was only because we didn't know her feeding schedule before we took over. Ever since then, and we set her on our own feeding schedule, she has went outside every single time. Thank God. I don't think that's really ever a major thing for housebreaking dogs though, right?

8 weeks and honestly you should probably have her tethered to you 100% of the time, or if not she should be crated. As you observed, the moment she is out of sight there is an accident. I'm sure it will happen less and less, but every accident is a step backwards. Make sure you're cleaning with an enzymatic cleaner (follow the instructions, if it's on carpet, if you use heated cleaners it can actually cook the smell in more) because if they get a whiff of pee, they'll think that this place is OK to pee in.

It's adorable and cute that the puppy plays with the kitty I'm sure, but there are 2 issues I see: one, depending on the size of the dog, she may get a lot bigger and not know the right way to play with the cat (could be wrong, just my experience) and two, as you've seen again running out of sight=pee accidents. My recommendation is that if she wants to let them play together, supervise. Just have your wife follow her around while they play. Tell her to record/take pictures to appease the strange people on the internet whom you're asking for advice! That way when she inevitably gets ready to pee, someone is there to catch and correct it before it happens. You WILL mess up on this, and she WILL have a few more accidents, but as you pay more attention you will get better at predicting/reacting/seeing the behavior.

For the foreseeable future, you're probably going to be on the set schedule. My puppies are now about 15 months and 1yr(ish) and we get up at 5AM M-F for work. On weekends, we usually get to sleep until about 6:30a before they get up and I take them outside for a potty break.

We trained bells from the beginning. We got hanging bells that dangle from the door handle, and Artemis took to them like a pro. She was bell trained very early and I never have problems with her. Jada took a lot longer to train to use the bells, but once she got the hang of it she really realized what it meant and again, no problem.

My only warning is that your dog will very likely learn to manipulate you with them. Once they're trained that bells=outside for potty they will soon learn that bells=outside and outside=playtime. To counteract this, make sure that potty trips are Business Trips Only. Go outside, to the spot you want them to pee/poop, and keep them there. No roaming, no running around, no toys. As soon as they potty, treat like its raining treats from the heavens and then its right back inside. Hopefully that will keep bells to a minimum. For about 3 months my house was bells every 30 seconds :(

Be diligent. Like I said, I took them out on an hourly schedule for a LONG time until I was confident they could do better than that. On my days off (while you're between jobs, maybe?) if you watch netflix that's a good timer IMHO - at the end of the episode it's a natural stopping point. Take 5 minutes to stretch, get a drink, take the pup out, etc.

Poop accidents are 100% the same as pee accidents. You are very lucky so far (sorry but I don't expect it to hold out :( ) A schedule definitely helps with this though.

mcswizzle
Jul 26, 2009

Sgt. Shaved Balls posted:

My friend recently got a 9 week old Shiba Inu puppy, it's been two days and is having some extremely bad separation anxiety because it had up to now been with a dozen other siblings and so it's been quite an abrupt change. The dog has been seen eating and drinking but only once or twice in two days.

A vet visit is scheduled for tomorrow but is there anything to worry about regarding the dog trembling in fear when it sees his new owner? We know to make yourself small and non-threatening and speak in a calm voice but will any of this anxiety cause problems with the dog long term since it's scared out of it's mind whenever it sees a person?

Any help is appreciated!

I'd page Psychobabble to the thread but SA doesn't work that way. Shiba Inu expertise is their thing. Anyway RE: SA there are a few things to try. First is to make positive associations with the crate. Play games in it, feed meals in it, take naps in it. Crate = ~safe place~ and NOTHING ELSE.

Second, get some long-lasting treats. I'm not sure if Peanut Butter is OK for a puppy that young but I don't see why it wouldn't be. Get a kong and fill it with some kibble, throw a thick layer of PB on that sucker and freeze it for a few hours/overnight. Let the pup have it when you leave (when normally you'd see the SA present) and hopefully all will be fine. Shiba's are distant by nature, so I wouldn't expect them to weep at the door waiting for you to return a la The Notebook any time soon.

That said, if the SA persists (or maybe if you want to/have time to first) then you need to start associating leaving with GOOD STUFF. Others have posted really good methods in the past what I can't find, but I'll try to do it justice: set up the scene like you would be leaving for work or whatever (don't wait to react when you're going to be late for work, set it up so that you can create the behavior you want to correct) and step outside the door, for half a second. COme back in and treat/praise/rain yumyums from on high! Keep doing this until you can get longer and longer periods out the door. Just stand outside. Wait 5 minutes and come back in. It's a long process and will be tedious and challenging, but it's a good way to not only de-escalate SA, but also to help desensitize your pup to coming/going sounds of walking on the landing/steps, keys in the door, talking outside, doors opening/closing etc. Hopefully you can manage both behaviors easily this way.

There's definitely a lot of change, and just like if you were to move with your dog, any kind of major life change can be stressful. I mean, consider how stressed you are now with a new puppy, or how stressed you'd be if you just moved. Not only is your dog stressed, but dogs pick up on their owners being stressed too. It helps to take a deep breath and just know that you're doing the best you can. RE: anxiety around people, it needs 150% to be socialized. IN A POSITIVE WAY. Socialization =/= mean taking the dog everywhere and letting stuff happen. Control the environment, control the situation, and make sure that the dog is comfortable at all times. The more you introduce your dog to, the better those interactions go, the less likely it is to be that the dog overreacts or misreacts later in life. It'll take time, but you'll see the pup get more comfortable, and so will you (or your friend, I guess).

e: sorry for the double post, two different browser windows up and didn't realize they were the same thread.

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013

This will be ours in 7.5 weeks :)

ThatPazuzu
Sep 8, 2011

I'm so depressed, I can't even blink.
I took Buddy to obedience school today and he knew the most tricks and was one of the quickest learners of everyone there. Also, I know I was worried about his interactions with other dogs but ge did relatively well. Buddy is swell and I want to thank the thread for helping me raise this sweetheart.

Also, the obedience school had a big banner that read DON'T TRUST THE POLICE.

Schizotek
Nov 8, 2011

I say, hey, listen to me!
Stay sane inside insanity!!!

ImplicitAssembler posted:

This will be ours in 7.5 weeks :)


He looks like he's gonna have floppy lips when he grows up :3:

WickedHate
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax

ImplicitAssembler posted:

This will be ours in 7.5 weeks :)


He looks absolutely adorable! Awww. They remind me of a seal or an otter.

WickedHate fucked around with this message at 14:46 on May 7, 2014

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





I have had my dog for about 3 weeks now. He is a rescue, about 14 months old, and has been overall outstanding when it comes to behavior and obedience. He can do basic commands and has been steadily improving with his behavior around other dogs at the park (which started off as just standing his ground and barking and has improved to sniffing around and some light playing). Everything is progressing well, except that he freaks out when I leave the apartment. We have been doing crate training, clicking with treats at intervals whenever he is in the crate behaving - sometimes with the door open, sometimes with me in another room, whatever. The crate has a bed in it as well as a blanket and one of my old tshirts. He eats all meals in the crate.Our problems are twofold:

Going to sleep - if I close his door AND my door, he will start clawing at the cage, whining, and barking. If I leave my door open, he will whine a little but be fine. If I close my door and leave the crate door open, he will whine at my door for 5-10 minutes before going to sleep in his crate anyway.

Secondly, if I leave the apartment he goes absolutely nuts. The only accident he has had in the apartment was when I went out for 2 hours when I had planned on being gone only 30 minutes. Generally if I leave, even if my roommate is home, he will bark like mad for a solid 5 minutes and get riled back up if the elevator goes or if a neighbor's door opens. I'm trying to leave the apartment during week day hours so as to avoid bugging neighbors during this phase, I have been leaving for 5-30 minutes every day this week trying to get him used to being home alone. On my way out the door I leave him with a Kong stuffed with peanut butter which seems to hold his attention long enough for me to get out the door, but he still gets pretty riled up when the peanut butter runs out/if he looks up and realizes I left.

Anyone have any suggestions for me besides keep making the crate a magical place where food/treats rain from the sky and keep leaving him alone while I run errands as I have been doing and just waiting for it to sink in with him?

e;
His crate area:


And a picture of the spaz napping:

Nephzinho fucked around with this message at 17:58 on May 7, 2014

Psychobabble!
Jun 22, 2010

Observing this filth unsettles me

Downhome posted:

Anyway, I have two concerns right now. The first one I'm not even sure I should be worried about or not. She is seemingly sleeping all night long in the crate without whining, crying, barking, or even going potty without letting us know. The first two or three nights was a nightmare, getting me up almost every single hour. I didn't even think a puppy could hold it all night, like physically couldn't hold it. Is this something I should be worried about it or is it possible that this is normal? It has been three or four nights in a row now where she has slept all night, then when we wake up around 7am she is either still asleep or just laying in there being quiet playing or chewing on her chew bone.

Everyone's said basically all that can be said regarding ths heart issue. Nthing getting in contact with the breeders and letting them know so they can tell other puppy owners and also so they can get their dogs checked.

Regarding the sleeping, you shouldn't be worried unless the dog seems lethargic or something. My puppy Aiko has held it 8 hours since she was still with the breeder at 6 weeks. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth and just be thankful you don't have to get up every few hours like a lot of people with tiny puppies do.

Cute as heck posted:

Does anyone know of any Shiba Inu breeders in New York? I've been trying to find one for dang near 2 months now and all I can find is geocities monstrosities that haven't been updated in 2+ years. And those are the NY Shiba Club recommended breeders! I refuse to believe there's not a single place with Shibas somewhere in NY (preferably out on LI) :(

Also sorry if this isn't the right place to ask, but I'm not really sure where else to go. Everywhere else is full of intimidating crazy people who unironically use the term "furbaby" and would rather spend their time chastising me for not wanting to adopt a chihuahua from my local shelter or lecturing me on how SHIBAS ARE TERRIBLE DOGS AND WHY I DON'T DESERVE ONE (Why is this the generalization, does any other dog have this bad of a rap?)

Shiba owner here. If you hold out for perfectly updated websites you won't have much luck. As someone else mentioned, its pretty typical for breeders to have outdated websites. What I did, and what I recommend, is going to your states breed club page and emailing pretty much everyone. I would check out their websites if they have them to make sure their dogs are appealing to you and they do health testing and register with a registry like OFA (if they're a member of the breed club they SHOULD health test. If it doesnt say on the website or if they dont have a website, you can always ask). I hate calling on the phone so I sent out emails to everyone who appealed to me (I believe like 7 different breeders), asking if they were expecting any litters in the next 6~ months and that I was interested in a red female. Short and sweet. Its generally considered bad form (afaik) to ask about price in the first email, since it seems like you're price hunting. Also don't hold them not having a website against them, one of the best breeders in the NW doesnt have one, and pretty much every breeder up here either has one of her dogs or has bred with one. I got a response from her just through email.

From there I would chat with the breeders that were expecting a litter in my time frame a bit about why I wanted a shiba, my knowledge of the breed, what I planned to do with the puppy while I was at work, stuff like that, as any reputable breeder will want to know what kind of home you plan to give their puppy. You don't want to go with a breeder who will just let you put cash down.

After you have made contact with a promising breeder, you should ask if you could come visit the parents (and puppies if they're already born), that way you can feel out their living situation and the temperament of the parents. This is super important, as puppies will generally have a similar temperament to their parents. The breeder we went to, as well as a whole ring of breeders locally, was specifically trying to breed away from lovely shiba temperament so we ended up with a very affectionate, very sweet anti shiba. I recommend you try to find someone similar. This should be obvious, but in case it isn't, walk away if the breeder won't let you meet the parents, or if they mention anything about being human or dog aggressive. Dog aggression is pretty common in shibas so going to someone who breeds for temperament is VERY IMPORTANT. I can't stress that part enough. Also really cool, our breeder let us come visit every weekend from when they were 3.5 weeks old until she came home at 7 weeks. I feel like it really helped her adjust to living with us, she didnt cry or whine at all when she finally came home. Its also really cool to watch them develop :3:.

Another thing that you can do to feel out breeders is go to shiba meet ups and dog shows and talk to people and get recommendations. Hope this helps, feel free to post specific breeders in here and we can try to help judge them(ideally after you've found a breeder who is expecting a little within your timeframe). If you need any shiba related help feel free to post here or message me and I can try my best to help (I'm far from an expert though and I've been very lucky as my puppy has been very easy).

Sgt. Shaved Balls posted:

My friend recently got a 9 week old Shiba Inu puppy, it's been two days and is having some extremely bad separation anxiety because it had up to now been with a dozen other siblings and so it's been quite an abrupt change. The dog has been seen eating and drinking but only once or twice in two days.

A vet visit is scheduled for tomorrow but is there anything to worry about regarding the dog trembling in fear when it sees his new owner? We know to make yourself small and non-threatening and speak in a calm voice but will any of this anxiety cause problems with the dog long term since it's scared out of it's mind whenever it sees a person?

Any help is appreciated!

A dozen other siblings? Is that an exaggeration?  A shibas litter is only 1-4 puppies, 3 being average. If there was a literal dozen siblings I would be worried he got his dog from a puppy mill, which could explain the issues its having.

Everyone has given good advice on S.A., and I'd recommend this video, which helped a lot with my puppy originally with being fine being alone in her x pen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGxhcb-itO4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

As far as being nervous around people, I would just keep taking it slow. I dont actually have a ton of experience with this and its pretty weird for shibas afaik so I'd just let the puppy settle in. How did the vet appointment go?

Lord Zedd-Repulsa
Jul 21, 2007

Devour a good book.


My sister has a St. Bernard puppy (along with 3 children under 7). Both she and whatever trainer she's using are believers in dominance theory. I've told her that it's an outdated theory, but I don't think she'll pay attention until I have good things to link her to. I'm going to send her the GDocs links from the OP, but does anyone have any good links directly about this issue?

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Kerfuffle
Aug 16, 2007

The sky calls to us~

LivesInGrey posted:

My sister has a St. Bernard puppy (along with 3 children under 7). Both she and whatever trainer she's using are believers in dominance theory. I've told her that it's an outdated theory, but I don't think she'll pay attention until I have good things to link her to. I'm going to send her the GDocs links from the OP, but does anyone have any good links directly about this issue?

http://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance?%2Fdominance.php

This looks pretty good, unfortunately a bunch of the youtubes are broken. But I think it breaks stuff down well enough and provides examples on the effectiveness of behavior shaping.

e: found what I was looking for
http://avsabonline.org/resources/position-statements

http://www.apdt.com/petowners/choose/dominancemyths.aspx

annd if they are specifically a big believer in ceasar milan:
http://www.4pawsu.com/cesarfans.htm

hope that helps, poor puppy. :(

Kerfuffle fucked around with this message at 04:31 on May 8, 2014

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