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Soylentbits posted:The earth elemental is going to be a teenage girl. I'm actually afraid of this happening. That goddamn elemental better be some sort of craggy rock monster or I'll be pissed.
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May 8, 2014 03:52
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Whether it's a craggy rock monster or a young girl, I'm sure it's going to be something he doesn't expect. I mean, the MC imagines everything like a generic fantasy game, but that doesn't mean the world actually works that way. When he learns magic from some other source is when it's most likely to deviate. I doubt it'll be a tank like he expects, at least until he starts tweaking it. For some reason I'm imagining a non-corporeal spirit.
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May 8, 2014 03:58
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No see it'll be a tiny 6 inch level 1 baby pebble Golem, that he has to raise, then he'll find a book on raising familiars off the auction and realize that depending in what he feeds the little guy it'll become either a) a massive rock monster and the best tank ever or b) a teenage girl. Then he makes a choice. Also he'll have to grind money because it'll need to eat diamonds or something expansive to boost it's Vit. Korean MMO are a pain
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May 8, 2014 06:26
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Sir PigglyWiggly posted:No see it'll be a tiny 6 inch level 1 baby pebble Golem, that he has to raise, then he'll find a book on raising familiars off the auction and realize that depending in what he feeds the little guy it'll become either a) a massive rock monster and the best tank ever or b) a teenage girl. Then he makes a choice. Also he'll have to grind money because it'll need to eat diamonds or something expansive to boost it's Vit. Korean MMO are a pain Could be worse, could be EV training
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May 8, 2014 06:43
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It'll be a giant earth monster with the personality of a teenage girl. Who is also tsundere. "I-I'm not tanking for you because I like you, baka!"
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May 8, 2014 15:23
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I hope he goes and saves that slave magician girl.  Don't let her be sold off into slavery! That's so sad!! Well, I guess if he doesn't save her we can always count on Liam Neeson.
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May 8, 2014 15:35
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His earth elemental summon is obviously going to be:
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May 8, 2014 15:40
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Doubleposting for Chapter 36
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May 8, 2014 17:52
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"Oh man I got an awesome ability that I can't wait to use!" ... "Next chapter!"
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May 8, 2014 18:05
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Well there goes the library plan.
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May 8, 2014 18:06
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I'm actually getting really loving annoyed with Jee Han's inability to put his points in something other than INT at this point. I can see avoiding stats totally out of a magic character's wheelhouse but he doesn't think WIS is going to be useful to his build? I thought he was supposed to be good at this poo poo.
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May 8, 2014 18:56
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:I'm actually getting really loving annoyed with Jee Han's inability to put his points in something other than INT at this point. I can see avoiding stats totally out of a magic character's wheelhouse but he doesn't think WIS is going to be useful to his build? I thought he was supposed to be good at this poo poo. The best builds get the absolute minimum you need for all your skills and equipment and pump the rest into your primary stat. Since he's unsure what he'll need in terms of wisdom or dex, he's afraid to put any points into them. Play more brutally unforgiving Korean [=MMOs=] and either ruin a bunch of characters and/or just look up good builds online. Since he has no precedent he's basically doomed to create a bad build. He expressed this fear fairly early on.
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May 8, 2014 19:01
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Clarste posted:The best builds get the absolute minimum you need for all your skills and equipment and pump the rest into your primary stat. Since he's unsure what he'll need in terms of wisdom or dex, he's afraid to put any points into them. Play more brutally unforgiving Korean [=MMOs=] and either ruin a bunch of characters and/or just look up good builds online. Since he has no precedent he's basically doomed to create a bad build. He expressed this fear fairly early on. EDIT: I guess in general, I don't understand why he hasn't put more stat points in wisdom, but that's probably because I'm thinking of this "game" as more Planescape: Torment and less a Korean MMO. You want the wisdom points for extra dialogue options and ways to progress the story, not to focus entirely on a battle build. Twiddy fucked around with this message at 19:09 on May 8, 2014 |
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May 8, 2014 19:06
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Twiddy posted:EDIT: I guess in general, I don't understand why he hasn't put more stat points in wisdom, but that's probably because I'm thinking of this "game" as more Planescape: Torment and less a Korean MMO. You want the wisdom points for extra dialogue options and ways to progress the story, not to focus entirely on a battle build. Wisdom is probably like magic accuracy or MP regen or something. Something that's kinda like int but not quite.
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May 8, 2014 19:11
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The way I see it, he hasn't yet realized that he's not in an actual MMO. If he was, he'd be competing with dozens of other players and be forced into ridiculous specialization to keep up. He's doing that still because he's used to it, but I imagine he'll eventually realize that in real life it's way better to be well rounded.
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May 8, 2014 19:11
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BlitzBlast posted:The way I see it, he hasn't yet realized that he's not in an actual MMO. If he was, he'd be competing with dozens of other players and be forced into ridiculous specialization to keep up. He's doing that still because he's used to it, but I imagine he'll eventually realize that in real life it's way better to be well rounded. His friend already told him that, but he hasn't internalized it. What he tried to do in response was come up with more spells to replicate the effects of being more agile or sturdy. He's also still hoping to learn teleportation from sunglasses.
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May 8, 2014 19:20
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Clarste posted:Wisdom is probably like magic accuracy or MP regen or something. Something that's kinda like int but not quite.
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May 8, 2014 19:25
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The advantages Wisdom will confer are nebulous at best. In a worst case scenario, he'll put some points into wisdom and he'll suddenly gain the insight, "gently caress, it would have been better to not increase my wisdom until I needed it." Of course, it could be that pumping up wisdom will give him the ability to rethink all of his accumulated observations about his MMO skill, which may lead to further insights about how he should allocate stat points and such. But the point is, he won't know until he does it, and that uncertainty is what's preventing him from doing it. The stakes are high, and if loving up an optimal build could lead to your death, spending stat points wisely means waiting until you have a clear idea of what you're doing.
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May 8, 2014 19:41
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The logic jump from Earth Elemental to "I can summon -any- elemental!" was really drat cool and I can't wait to see when and how he starts doing it.
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May 8, 2014 19:41
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The real reason is that he's afraid if he puts too many points into Wisdom he'll turn into a wizened old man.
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May 8, 2014 19:59
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pnumoman posted:The advantages Wisdom will confer are nebulous at best. In a worst case scenario, he'll put some points into wisdom and he'll suddenly gain the insight, "gently caress, it would have been better to not increase my wisdom until I needed it." Of course, it could be that pumping up wisdom will give him the ability to rethink all of his accumulated observations about his MMO skill, which may lead to further insights about how he should allocate stat points and such. But the point is, he won't know until he does it, and that uncertainty is what's preventing him from doing it. The stakes are high, and if loving up an optimal build could lead to your death, spending stat points wisely means waiting until you have a clear idea of what you're doing. The essential misunderstanding that he and other people seem to be having is that when you're playing a game, your intelligence and wisdom and decision making skills and knowledge are completely independent of the stats of your character. That is not true here. He's not completely screwed because has been working on his intelligence, but some wisdom would help him see most of the details people in the thread have pointed out (hey is there an options menu?) Twiddy fucked around with this message at 20:10 on May 8, 2014 |
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May 8, 2014 20:05
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Twiddy posted:The advantages to anything he does are nebulous at best. Uncertainty is the only real thing we're dealing with in this scenario. He doesn't know the end result of any of his stats, he has no clue what an optimal build looks like in this game. What he needs is information, and the primary tools for getting information are wisdom and knowledge. He's essentially sacrificing the ability to understand what he needs to do so that maybe he can accidentally crap into a somewhat optimal build? That sounds like an even dumber risk. No, the primary tools for getting information are intellect and knowledge. The definition of wisdom is incredibly nebulous; depending on what game you use, it's anything from simple mana regeneration, closeness to the divine, or the ability to make better decisions. Every other stat has immediate benefits, while the best anyone can say for wisdom is that it allows you to make better choices, or have better insight into things. And even if this is exactly what would happen, he doesn't gain any additional knowledge by pumping wisdom. What he needs right now is more knowledge; he needs to buy and read more books, gain more skills, and level up those skills, not gain a better insight into his life. The real truth of the matter, though, is that he should really look at the help files for stat points.
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May 8, 2014 20:18
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There's also the case that he's not competing with people who can see all the numbers. They can't really sit down and sperg out about builds they could be using, they just practice skills that they can use mostly effectively. Plus, in the real world minmaxing doesn't work anywhere near as well as in a game. Someone who can shoot fire but in doing so loses their ability to stand up in a stiff breeze probably won't last long.
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May 8, 2014 20:27
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Twiddy posted:(hey is there an options menu?) Yes. It was the reason why his life was hell at first. Still disappointed he hasn't messed with it.
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May 8, 2014 20:31
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pnumoman posted:What he needs right now is more knowledge; he needs to buy and read more books, gain more skills, and level up those skills, not gain a better insight into his life. I agree completely - which is why he needs to experiment and research his ability as much as possible. And that means putting at least a point, maybe even a few, into every stat. Especially ones that don't have clear effects. For that reason, if nothing else, should put at least a point into Wisdom. Or find an item or spell that'll temporarily raise it, at least.
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May 8, 2014 20:32
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pnumoman posted:No, the primary tools for getting information are intellect and knowledge. The definition of wisdom is incredibly nebulous; depending on what game you use, it's anything from simple mana regeneration, closeness to the divine, or the ability to make better decisions. quote:Every other stat has immediate benefits, while the best anyone can say for wisdom is that it allows you to make better choices, or have better insight into things. Again, the stats are actually related to him (this has been shown), not just a modifier for his statistical abilities. You keep talking about immediate benefits, but how does he even know he's grinding the right way? Maybe he's not even on the correct path. I don't think you're seeing that what you choose to do and how you choose to go about it in real life is based on decisions. A game can't quite capture that affect in real life accurately, but we're dealing with magic, so it's very possible. EDIT: vv I think the people who understand why wisdom is important just have higher wisdom. Twiddy fucked around with this message at 20:46 on May 8, 2014 |
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May 8, 2014 20:41
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I think the biggest hurdle he's going to have to overcome is not treating his ability like it's a 1:1 comparison to video games. Right now he's been caught with a distribution of stats that make him competent against creatures found within the illusion barriers, but he can't afford to min-max against real life opponents because their experience and power outweigh any of his. Instead of trying to optimize his build he needs to realize that he's not playing a game with set system limitations that he can be aware of. Min-maxing only works if there are limits to how a gamesystem works and how skills/stats/abilities relate to exp gain and damage or defensive outputs. He should be going for a more spread out stat distribution and focus on developing his melee skills alongside his magic ones.XboxPants posted:I agree completely - which is why he needs to experiment and research his ability as much as possible. And that means putting at least a point, maybe even a few, into every stat. Especially ones that don't have clear effects. For that reason, if nothing else, should put at least a point into Wisdom. Or find an item or spell that'll temporarily raise it, at least. This, he seems to be in a unique position because his ability literally spells out how some of it's functions for him if he can find items that require wisdom as a stat to use he could better understand what the stat actually does for him.
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May 8, 2014 20:45
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Twiddy posted:The game I am using is real life, and the definition of wisdom is the ability to make wise decisions (the ability to have good judgment, aka make better choices). You seem to think that if you have the ability to make better choices, you will have different choices to make. He doesn't have many choices right now; he can decide what stats to raise, what books to buy, what people to trust, and so forth. The problem is that his pool of knowledge from which to make those decisions does not change with increased wisdom. All increased wisdom does is allow him to choose better, but what if he doesn't have the knowledge required to choose wisely to begin with? As I said before, my guess is that if he pumped wisdom right now, all he'll immediately gain is the insight, "poo poo, maybe I should not have done that." He won't learn anything new, he won't be better prepared, he'll just be able to make better choices. Which is a good thing in the long run, obviously. But right now he needs to learn more than anything else, not choose. He needs to know more, and wisdom will not directly help him in that sense. At best, maybe it will motivate him to ask more questions. Again, the real problem is that he doesn't know the exact effects of each stat point. Experimentation would help, but how many points would he have to sacrifice to get a feel for the effects of something not immediately obvious?
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May 8, 2014 20:55
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He should try using observe on that magic book. He might get a hint about how it works. And I like that UFO 
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May 8, 2014 20:59
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I always thought of wisdom as the application of knowledge and intelligence as a general knowing and ability to understand. I loved the horror from the magical theory book. "What? You mean I actually have to read this poo poo?" And inside of it are probably real ways of refining his craft and is a literal goldmine of new skills which he could learn. He's eating all of this low hanging fruit and instead of stretching just a tad higher for the tastier fruit he says, "Nah, gently caress it," and contents himself with what is easy. He didn't even open it. In the end he doesn't need more skills, he needs to learn how his power fundamentally works and break the game, and hence life, over his knee. Experiment more and read the drat book. edit: A few words I guess.
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May 8, 2014 21:04
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Don't forget he got a nice passive for bumping Intelligence up to 50, which essentially unlocked all of the mana-based skills he's been fiddling with lately. Plus his passives that boost the effects of any investments. But actual experienced fighters've been telling him he should bump up his physical stats so maybe that takes priority. I would say 50 in all stats isn't necessarily a terrible build. And it is considerably more doable with his passives. But what he really needs is a help function, heh. And it's likely worthwhile comparing notes with other magic types--that Witch of Slaughter, for example. He can take a look at her stats too.
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May 8, 2014 21:06
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pnumoman posted:You seem to think that if you have the ability to make better choices, you will have different choices to make. He doesn't have many choices right now; he can decide what stats to raise, what books to buy, what people to trust, and so forth. The problem is that his pool of knowledge from which to make those decisions does not change with increased wisdom. All increased wisdom does is allow him to choose better, but what if he doesn't have the knowledge required to choose wisely to begin with? As I said before, my guess is that if he pumped wisdom right now, all he'll immediately gain is the insight, "poo poo, maybe I should not have done that." He won't learn anything new, he won't be better prepared, he'll just be able to make better choices. Which is a good thing in the long run, obviously. But right now he needs to learn more than anything else, not choose. He needs to know more, and wisdom will not directly help him in that sense. At best, maybe it will motivate him to ask more questions. I am not disagreeing that intelligence is also very critical. In fact, I agree that he should be focusing on raising his intelligence as he has been doing. I liked that part for a while because it was a logical, wise choice. I think around now is when he should raise his wisdom above its absolute base stat and see what insights he can make. That said, I guess there's another problem that I just recently identified. Wisdom isn't really a quantified thing because it exists under the same umbrella as intelligence in actual study. Therefore, the abilities and quantities of a human's intelligence is split between the two stats in this world. Generally you want to be pretty even in terms of intellectual abilities, so understanding the split between wisdom and intelligence would really help in determining a distribution of stats. Kaja Rainbow posted:But what he really needs is a help function, heh. And it's likely worthwhile comparing notes with other magic types--that Witch of Slaughter, for example. He can take a look at her stats too. Obviously in the above description, every single step in the process is attributed to wisdom, when it can very easily be argued that intelligence constitutes some of that. Still, intelligence can't be the only thing required to make that decision, because he's bumped so many points into intelligence and still hasn't seen that as an option. Also pnumoman, that's a great example of how having wisdom increases your number of choices. The ability to see that something is even an option comes from insight, usually. Now, it can also come from intelligence instead of wisdom, but that's because in real life they're the same thing. Considering he's not seeing some very obvious decisions that he could be making, and therefore has less decisions to make, I imagine he's missing something critical. Twiddy fucked around with this message at 21:15 on May 8, 2014 |
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May 8, 2014 21:07
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Kaja Rainbow posted:Don't forget he got a nice passive for bumping Intelligence up to 50, which essentially unlocked all of the mana-based skills he's been fiddling with lately. Plus his passives that boost the effects of any investments. But actual experienced fighters've been telling him he should bump up his physical stats so maybe that takes priority. I would say 50 in all stats isn't necessarily a terrible build. And it is considerably more doable with his passives. A 50 in all skills would be difficult to do with just levels. As he gains levels the experience bar lengthens. So he's best served in raising skills at some point not by killing monsters, but by leveling passive skills that boost his stats. He could hit a "soft" 100 intelligence (not points in it until there, but points plus buffs) with effort most likely too. edit: Also, is anyone else disappointed that there is no charisma stat?
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May 8, 2014 21:09
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I swear I'm gonna quit this manwha if it turns out there was a help function the entire time and he never thinks to look for it until someone asks about it. And it's filled with things like "Stat point allocation guide" "Commonly used builds" and "Comprehensive list of all active and passive skills".
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May 8, 2014 21:12
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I wouldn't be surprised if the Int/Wis split here was like the difference between being book smart and street smart. Like a high Intelligence is great for knowledge things, like medical stuff and the like, but a high Wisdom helps for things that are common sense and being merely book smart doesn't necessarily help with.
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May 8, 2014 21:12
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Dragonatrix posted:I wouldn't be surprised if the Int/Wis split here was like the difference between being book smart and street smart. Like a high Intelligence is great for knowledge things, like medical stuff and the like, but a high Wisdom helps for things that are common sense and being merely book smart doesn't necessarily help with. A point of wisdom lets you view what stats actually do. He'll bump it up by a single point one day and he'll realize what a massive dummy he has been.
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May 8, 2014 21:13
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The problem here, really, is that the benefits're obvious for strength/vitality/dexterity and nebulous for wisdom/luck.pnumoman posted:I swear I'm gonna quit this manwha if it turns out there was a help function the entire time and he never thinks to look for it until someone asks about it. And it's filled with things like "Stat point allocation guide" "Commonly used builds" and "Comprehensive list of all active and passive skills". I don't really expect it to have stuff like that. I'm thinking more stuff like "What does Wisdom/Luck do?" What menu functions he has available to him. Basic stuff like that. But Gaia or whoever's responsible for his Gamer ability's quirkiness might be getting too much enjoyment out of watching him bumble through to put in something that convenient. It certainly seems to enjoy sassing him.
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May 8, 2014 21:17
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Dragonatrix posted:I wouldn't be surprised if the Int/Wis split here was like the difference between being book smart and street smart. Like a high Intelligence is great for knowledge things, like medical stuff and the like, but a high Wisdom helps for things that are common sense and being merely book smart doesn't necessarily help with.
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May 8, 2014 21:17
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One kind of important thing is that, unlike in a game, putting points into strength/stamina is never going to be wasted. Being more agile or having more endurance is going to be useful even if he decides to go a more or less "pure" magic route.
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May 8, 2014 21:23
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Ice Phisherman posted:A 50 in all skills would be difficult to do with just levels. As he gains levels the experience bar lengthens. So he's best served in raising skills at some point not by killing monsters, but by leveling passive skills that boost his stats. I remember him being able to level up his stats just by doing activities related to them. He could just train with his friend and work on his physical stats, and actually read that magical tome and other similar books to help level up his mental skills. pnumoman posted:I swear I'm gonna quit this manwha if it turns out there was a help function the entire time and he never thinks to look for it until someone asks about it. And it's filled with things like "Stat point allocation guide" "Commonly used builds" and "Comprehensive list of all active and passive skills". I wouldn't be surprised if there was something relating to a user manual hidden away in the menus.
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May 8, 2014 21:29
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