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His Divine Shadow posted:Well Black Dow was also subservient to Threetrees and he wasn't a psychopath. But maybe we'll find out Threetrees eats babies in some future flashback story. Yeah you're right, it's not really consistent with that. I don't think Threetrees was exactly Mother Theresa but he's certainly not like Logen.
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Apr 1, 2014 15:29
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Ornamented Death posted:Here's something far more interesting than this never-ending debate: the first seven chapters of Half a King. Cool, thanks. Also, I never really went on Abercrombie's site or twitter before, I love how he just owns all the criticisms, especially that one huge article by that uptight, nihilism-hating nerd, and makes fun of it.
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Apr 1, 2014 15:45
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Jeffrey posted:Yeah you're right, it's not really consistent with that. I don't think Threetrees was exactly Mother Theresa but he's certainly not like Logen. Threetrees was named by Logen as his second-in-command too though, and was also a major badass close to his level when it came reputation.
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Apr 2, 2014 16:26
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DarkCrawler posted:Threetrees was named by Logen as his second-in-command too though, and was also a major badass close to his level when it came reputation. Kind of. Shivers does mention people are beginning to forget Threetrees but the Bloody Nine's reputation is as strong as ever decades later.
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Apr 2, 2014 16:58
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Threetrees was a confirmed badass, but I get the feeling he was a lot like an older Dogman; hard but just not as savage as Dow and Ninefingers were.
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Apr 4, 2014 16:48
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Okay here's something I was trying to figure out while re-reading the trilogy.. Septon Toiyful (sp? audiobook sorry). I know the reveal later in, but i was trying to figure out how he got so badly burned over half of his face? Or am I getting two characters from the Inquisition prison mines together?
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Apr 17, 2014 21:30
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coyo7e posted:Okay here's something I was trying to figure out while re-reading the trilogy.. Septon Toiyful (sp? audiobook sorry). I know the reveal later in, but i was trying to figure out how he got so badly burned over half of his face? Or am I getting two characters from the Inquisition prison mines together? I think you're confusing two characters: Salem Rews and Sepp dan Teufel. Salem Rews was shipped off to the mines, became a blacksmith, and got horribly disfigured in a smithy accident.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:53
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Ithaqua posted:I think you're confusing two characters: Salem Rews and Sepp dan Teufel. 
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Apr 18, 2014 01:01
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coyo7e posted:Okay thanks! I for some reason assumed he was some kind of religious figure thus the "septon". And I didn't THINK it was the same guy but I did vaguely remember P's reveal much later and got them confused. "Septon" is a Gurm thing.
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Apr 18, 2014 02:31
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I'm about a third through the second book and I don't know if I can take any more Jezal POV chapters. Please just loving die.
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May 8, 2014 10:40
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Illinois Smith posted:I'm about a third through the second book and I don't know if I can take any more Jezal POV chapters. Please just loving die. His attitude should start changing shortly, if that's the problem.
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May 8, 2014 11:33
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Illinois Smith posted:I'm about a third through the second book and I don't know if I can take any more Jezal POV chapters. Please just loving die. You're basically at the point where all the best stuff starts happening.
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May 9, 2014 05:12
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Illinois Smith posted:I'm about a third through the second book and I don't know if I can take any more Jezal POV chapters. Please just loving die. And Gorst is a great character, I wish there'd been some POV of him after the duel but before Red Country.
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May 10, 2014 17:34
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coyo7e posted:Don't worry, he's, well, never smug again after a certain point. And it carries through to every book. There's a short story in that period about Gorst that Abercrombie did. I can't remember where you'd find it, though.
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May 10, 2014 20:52
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Neurosis posted:There's a short story in that period about Gorst that Abercrombie did. I can't remember where you'd find it, though. "Yesterday, Near a Village Called Barden" It was a bonus in the Waterstone's edition of The Heroes and maybe in the enhanced ebook version (not sure on that). It'll also be in the short story collection that's due out in like...2016 or something. Edit: Sweet, I got an ARC of Half a King in the mail today. Ornamented Death fucked around with this message at 02:34 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 10, 2014 21:28
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Illinois Smith posted:I'm about a third through the second book and I don't know if I can take any more Jezal POV chapters. Please just loving die. Ornamented Death posted:Edit: Sweet, I got an ARC of Half a King in the mail today. 
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May 13, 2014 01:51
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UncleMonkey posted:Oh you bastard! I signed up for a chance at that too. No fair! If it makes you feel any better, I'm stuck two states away so my wife gets to read it first, and she is terrible about accidentally dropping spoilers.
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May 13, 2014 02:17
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UncleMonkey posted:But his arc in book 2 gets really good. Like others above me said, don't give up. On to the standalone books, what's the best order to read those? Just as they came out (Best Served Cold -> Heroes -> Red Country)?
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May 14, 2014 11:44
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Exactly right, yes. They still continue the story from The First Law trilogy but they're self-contained rather than open-ended.
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May 14, 2014 12:23
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Just BSC and Red Country will give you the side-tale of Nicomo Cosca, famed soldier of fortune's decline and death.
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May 15, 2014 04:07
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Ithaqua posted:"Septon" is a Gurm thing. Yeah, sept- is a Latin prefix meaning "seven," hence the seven gods, "Septs," "Septons," etc. I just started The Blade Itself last night after getting the GRRM burnout (I flew through book two and am about 1/3 through ASoS right now). I'm only about 20 pages in, but so far it's a really nice change of pace. Just the opening action scene with Thoren and the... Sanka? I want to say Sanka. It was better-written action than most of what GRRM has given me in 2000+ pages so far.
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May 16, 2014 15:26
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QPZIL posted:Yeah, sept- is a Latin prefix meaning "seven," hence the seven gods, "Septs," "Septons," etc. 
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May 18, 2014 00:10
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loving flatheads
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May 18, 2014 06:10
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Suxpool posted:loving flatheads Woah, oh boy Rick I don't think you're allowed to say that word y'know..
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May 18, 2014 09:18
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Affi posted:Woah, oh boy Rick I don't think you're allowed to say that word y'know..
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May 18, 2014 22:12
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UncleMonkey posted:Logen and the Shanka.  Wow, I even knew "Logen" but somehow my brain spat out "Thoren". Tolkien 
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May 19, 2014 14:01
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"Tolkien " is kind of the theme of the trilogy so you'll get along just fine.
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May 19, 2014 15:02
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Suxpool posted:loving flatheads Affi posted:Woah, oh boy Rick I don't think you're allowed to say that word y'know.. UncleMonkey posted:Relax, Morty. These things are dumber than a bag of hammers. What d'you-- *BELCH*-- expect them to start pouring out of a cavern by the hundreds or somethin1g? This is the best whole series of random unrelated poo poo. John Charity Spring posted:"Tolkien LOTR would have been a way better book if Saruman was mad at Gandalf because Gandalf murdered their master and framed his brother, whose daughter he was banging on the side and also murdered
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May 19, 2014 16:29
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I just finished Half a King and it was pretty good. I see why it was classified as YA: it's a much more straightforward story and most of the reveals are pretty obvious well in advance. Yarvi can be a bit annoying at times, but all the other characters are very well done. Overall a solid story worth reading.
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May 31, 2014 03:33
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Nevvy Z posted:LOTR would have been a way better book if Saruman was mad at Gandalf because Gandalf murdered their master and framed his brother, whose daughter he was banging on the side and also murdered 
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Jun 2, 2014 03:03
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So like a year or two ago I'd audiobooked Red Country without realizing that it was the fifth or so book set in an already established fantasy world. A couple weeks ago I stumbled across the The Blade Itself, unaware that it was written by the same author. As I listened, the setting sounded familiar but it was Ninefingers's chapters that had me go "You know, this sounds an awful lot like Lamb." Then I double checked and welp, my lip curled and my mind was blown. I just finished the First Law and now I'm wondering at how many other connections and other things I may have missed by reading Red Country first, ugh. I really hope Biyaz gets his comeuppance somehow. gently caress this guy. When he destroyed the 100 Words and gave his self-congratulatory speech about being more powerful than Ayos and Juven, I felt my stomach drop and I knew he really did kill Juven. That this fucker then manipulated his order to kill the Master Maker and his daughter so he could keep all the secrets to himself. Hell, trapping his magi friend in the Maker's House was probably a convenient opportunity to get rid of a dude for questioning the events of the past, rather than a necessary sacrifice. gently caress this guy so hard. I'm even more upset at myself for believing he was a benevolent wise wizard working for the greater good and for blindly supporting him up until 3/4 of the way through Last Argument of Kings. Also did Kalul break the Second Law and commandeer the Gurkish Empire so he could defeat Biyaz and avenge Juven? If so, wouldn't Biyaz be partly responsible for Ferro's grievances?. poo poo, I'd even go as far to say I endorse Kalul because at least it seems like he and his followers respect the First Law. Magic cannibals is bad but risking the reunion of the world with hell seems several orders of magnitude worst. Sorry if I butchered the names, I'm literally going by ear. edit: Regarding Biyaz, by tapping into the seed and nuking part of the Aggreont, did he also become stronger? They keep going on about how magic leaks from the world, but by using the seed was he channeling magic back into the world (and into himself)? theDOWmustflow fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Jun 5, 2014 |
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Jun 5, 2014 07:28
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theDOWmustflow posted:edit: Regarding Biyaz, by tapping into the seed and nuking part of the Aggreont, did he also become stronger? They keep going on about how magic leaks from the world, but by using the seed was he channeling magic back into the world (and into himself)? It's very briefly implied. Logen (I think) comments on Bayaz looking slightly younger after using the Seed. We haven't anything since substantiating that.
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Jun 5, 2014 09:19
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Bayaz might have been a shithead first, and he might be the bigger shithead overall, but objectively it seems obvious that both he and Khalul are foul. The reason I love this series above all others is that I find it difficult to pass judgement on most of the characters. Most of them are written thinking, saying, or doing things which might be viewed as evil or selfish or what have you, but Joe can take all of that and justify it in a way that I find it really easy to sympathize with these jerks. For example, Bethod gets painted as a pretty big rear end in a top hat for 2 1/2 books, and Logen is the affable ruffian trying to put his dodgy past in the rearview. When you hear Bethod's side of it though, he makes a pretty compelling case that the story isn't so cut and dry. In Abercrombie's books you will find it just as difficult to find a character who is completely evil as you will to find one who is completely good. I'm sure Bayaz and Khalul are both justified in their own minds.
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Jun 5, 2014 09:55
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People are too quick to overlook Khalul's moral culpability. Yeah, sure, maybe Bayaz was at the root of the Magi/Maker imbroglio, but Khalul runs a warlike theocracy that practises slavery and keeps a large contingent of cannibal sorcerers. He's probably a complete piece of poo poo.
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Jun 5, 2014 10:03
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There might be the possibility that even Khalul's horrible slave-cannibal-sorcerer-priest-Empire is preferable to what Bayaz's insane lust for power might bring out, but yeah, he's definitely evil. He just might evil that's also fighting against even a worse evil. Stalin, sort of? Of course he might not give a poo poo about that and is motivated by the same thing as Bayaz is - proving once for all that he's the best Magi.
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Jun 5, 2014 21:17
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I'm seeing a really easy  here so I'm just gonna leave it to your own imagination.
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Jun 6, 2014 06:31
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I think a rigid theocratic slaver society that endorses cannibalism is way worse than the semi-feudalistic/industrial society Bayaz created.
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Jun 6, 2014 18:19
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coyo7e posted:I'm seeing a really easy The problem with the nazis' reasoning was not that they attempted to determine if the ends justified the means, it was that they did so and came up with incorrect results that just so happened to be congruent with their prejudices.
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Jun 6, 2014 18:25
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Above Our Own posted:I think a rigid theocratic slaver society that endorses cannibalism is way worse than the semi-feudalistic/industrial society Bayaz created. Agree with that. The Union seems poised to undergo industrialisation, too. They have an advanced banking system and don't have to undergo the growing pains associated with casting off outdated religious values that Europe did. I wonder if they'll develop intellectually in parallel to the real world? Bayaz will surely scoff at humanism.
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Jun 7, 2014 03:52
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Above Our Own posted:I think a rigid theocratic slaver society that endorses cannibalism is way worse than the semi-feudalistic/industrial society Bayaz created. Neurosis posted:Agree with that. The Union seems poised to undergo industrialisation, too. They have an advanced banking system and don't have to undergo the growing pains associated with casting off outdated religious values that Europe did. I wonder if they'll develop intellectually in parallel to the real world? Bayaz will surely scoff at humanism. Is it better to be a slave to God or a slave to Capital? The people in the Union have no more agency or social mobility than those in Gurkhal. The "benefits" of industrialization will flow in exactly one direction - due Bayaz, not to the people. The "outdated religious values" of Europe lead directly to the development of moral systems like humanism, but the Union has nothing but the ego of an immortal cannibal tyrant driving or retarding development as he sees fit. There is no moral difference between Khalul and Bayaz, except that Bayaz started the conflict and is the more accomplished murderer. The Empire is no worse than the Union, only different in the way it enslaves and consumes the citizens within it.
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Jun 7, 2014 13:02
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