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He'd lose a point of vet on the T-80UMs and T-80Us.  If I made a USSR armored deck I would take advantage of the ability to take one of each superheavy tank card at max vet.
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May 8, 2014 18:24
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Whoops, I mean't unspecialized. Calling it a national deck is a habit from ALB. I'd be much obliged if someone called him out. I've gotta go to bed.
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May 8, 2014 18:24
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Xerxes17 posted:Whoops, I mean't unspecialized. Calling it a national deck is a habit from ALB. Ah, okay. A dozen heavy tanks with few "very good" recon options. I wonder if he has difficulties with airborne or motorized decks, and how he rationalizes them?
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May 8, 2014 18:27
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It's hard to make a good armor deck because armor decks just plain suck in RD, and I say this as someone who likes armor decks a whole lot in ALB. Hopefully whatever change they have in mind for tanks will help.
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May 8, 2014 18:47
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I hardly ever gently caress with tanks unless it's a high point game, any tank worth its poo poo gets focused the second it reveals itself. I'd rather waste the points probing with infantry or for air power.
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May 8, 2014 20:25
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It's worth noting that, in a meta with such heavily armored tanks, people tend to build their decks around high-powered reactive anti-tank strategies -- ATGM planes and Helos, and to a lesser extent high-end ATGM vehicles. All of these things are generally pretty expensive, fragile, and not all that useful outside their singular role; in this environment, Light/Cheap tanks can have a real use, since the enemy might very likely not have any good way of dealing with them in a cost-effective manner. If bringing a couple T-55s forces my enemy to buy a Hornet or a Peace Rhine, then there aren't a lot of ways that isn't an implicit win for me. It's like a unit trade that never actually happens. Furthermore, if they DO go that route, then it is much easier for you to "trap" his reaction since you have more points to spend on things like MANPADs and interceptors. Generally I tend to use "heavy" tanks as the backbone of my force (when I use them at all), calling them in once the support force is in place and using them to anchor and press position. I do wonder, though, if there isn't some validity to using a lot of cheap tanks to force the enemy to expose his AT weapons, attritioning them away until he's weak and I can bring the big boys out to roam free. It's also worth noting that this is another place where Medium Tanks kind of suck, because they pretty much die just as easily to high-end ATGMs as Cheap tanks do, and cost more for the privilege. This seems like a place where balancing by AP efficiency instead of Point efficiency could make things much more interesting.
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May 8, 2014 21:01
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Incidentally that sounds like the random deck that I just played -- tgAlFo1BGtU0Qp2JFTsM2tykVOwkM1BRFqHOb7lp04qc4xoRpT8FWSrBhZI0lbbvp3m3khlt8G8T5EkG+SOZwqmrS2ooEewhxNEg4MToS02KbIA=. We did a goon all-random game and ended up with I think 3 or 4 REDFOR Cat C decks. Mine was mixed REDFOR and had as notable features all 5 LOG slots filled with 20 CVs, and zero supply units. It also had a metric fuckton of light tanks, 3/4 of a metric fuckton of infantry, and it works surprisingly well (I'd advise swapping some of the CVs out with supply units for your sanity sake, unless you want the comedy option of 20 CVs).
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May 8, 2014 21:30
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DreamShipWrecked posted:To ask a noobish question, what is the best way to recon forest? I've played a few matches where I've been trying to hold towns surrounded by forests with scattered recon infantry and jeeps surrounding it, but the enemy still manages to sneak in SF units through the woods without my knowing. I don't know if there is one. I had a game where a guy did nothing but throw Li Jian through the massive forests on this map and barely pay any attention to the city game. I first tried roaming around with cheap vehicles to get them, but it wasn't very effective. Then I helicoptered in some Delta Force and tried to see if that would at least be an even match, but no, I guess Li Jian have better optics or something. My Delta Force was just murdered instantly without ever seeing them. The only thing that got a few of his SF guys was me driving my most expensive tanks through the forest. It was a pretty terrible trade. I'd guess that if you don't know enough about infantry to realize whether your unit is great or terrible in forests, just stay as far away from them as possible. If they don't have air cover, just try bombing them when they expose themselves, and if they do have AA, you might try getting lucky with artillery. The most obvious thing to me is that the infantry basically do nothing in the forests, they can't shoot at anything if they're far enough inside. Put a few units guarding your rear in case they try to circumvent you, and continue pushing in the open where you might have a point advantage from not spending it on woodsmen.
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May 8, 2014 22:23
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DreamShipWrecked posted:To ask a noobish question, what is the best way to recon forest? I've played a few matches where I've been trying to hold towns surrounded by forests with scattered recon infantry and jeeps surrounding it, but the enemy still manages to sneak in SF units through the woods without my knowing. Spread out your empty APCs in there to serve as "tripwire" recon. If 40 Li Jian or FSJ-90 show up, drop 4000kg of high explosive or napalm on the forest.
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May 8, 2014 23:04
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So where si this mumble that's mentioned in the OP? I didn't see any server info, and I'm not sure if there's thread for it in PGS. Really trying to play with goons so that I can blame my mistakes on others. e: found it! That info should be put into the Starter Guide as well. literally this big fucked around with this message at 23:54 on May 8, 2014 |
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May 8, 2014 23:50
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Hubis posted:It's worth noting that, in a meta with such heavily armored tanks, people tend to build their decks around high-powered reactive anti-tank strategies -- ATGM planes and Helos, and to a lesser extent high-end ATGM vehicles. All of these things are generally pretty expensive, fragile, and not all that useful outside their singular role; I think this is not really true for BLUEFOR. It can be hard to build a deck that fills essential roles and doesn't have ATGMs coming out the rear end. Need an IFV? how about some TOW 2s or Milan 2s? Excellent optics recon vehicles are rare you say? Well this one has TOW 2s on it! Need a recon helicopter? How about one with HOT 2s or Hellfires? Want a LAV 25? The Australians stuck some TOW 2s on it just for you! Also, ATGMs kill everything just fine. It's not like a Bradley M2A3 won't kill a BuK or a BMP-1 with its TOW 2s. Maybe, but in an environment where an BLUEFOR player can be expected to have 8 Milan 2 (or equivalents) in the infantry tab, recon tab, vehicle tab, helicopter tab, and even more powerful AGMs in the Air tab, attritting AT power is a proposition that's hard to really take seriously. Against Blue Dragon or Scandinavia you could manage it, but Eurocorps and US has latest model high powered ATGMs coming out of their rear end. Bradleys, Marders, Tigers, Lynx, and of course Milan 2 guys, recon Bradleys, recon Tigers, recon Apaches, regular Apaches, regular Tigers, Wiesel TOW 2s, LAV TOW 2s, Mavericks, Hellfires on goddamn ROWBOATS! The list is crazy. REDFOR in comparison doesn't quite have the sheer weight of ATGMs but USSR comes close, but the recon tab has a notable absence of ATGM firepower compared to BLUEFOR. I think that's a real difference in playing the different factions; in REDFOR you can expect AP 20+ ATGMs to be flying your way from virtually the first contact while as BLUEFOR you encounter ATGMs in more traditional defensive scenarios. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 02:11 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 02:02
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Arglebargle III posted:BLUEFOR you encounter unkillable chinese AA Helos ensuring they get all the prime defensive positions ftfy so many Li Jian  Also, found out that Riflemen can go head to head with motostrelki, but still lose to chinese militia, and that super dragon gavins are surprisingly good at making redfor overestimate your defenses. Yeah, keep trying to bomb that 15 point metal box.
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May 9, 2014 02:13
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Haha yeah China can get what, 4 or 5 cards of Li Jian? They really didn't think through the implications of 5 infantry slots with doubled special forces cards due to era differences. I wonder if I have Li Jian and Li Jian '90 in my deck did they just get the old guys out of retirement for that or what?
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May 9, 2014 03:38
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Wait, when did Li Jian become the special forces top end? I thought that was still West German Fallshirmjagers?
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May 9, 2014 03:57
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Li Jian '90 are better at killing infantry; post-nerf, FSJ '90 are superlative because in addition to being nearly as good at killing infantry as the SF without AT weapons, they have the best LAW in the game as well.
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May 9, 2014 04:00
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FSJ are sort of known as super death ninjas though so they attract a lot of napalm, whereas people see Li Jian and get them confused with Juckwoedae and Lie Ren and a bunch of other names that don't sound familiar and then try to attack them with line infantry.
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May 9, 2014 04:27
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How do you guys find Fire Support infantry teams? That HE AoE damage seems nice. How effective are they in cities? The ranges of the Eryx and the asian guns seem nice, but the ROF of course suffers. How much does that extra range matter in city fighting anyway? That SMAW actually seems pretty good! Shock units, and extra range compared to the MAW without losing anything.
Llyranor fucked around with this message at 04:55 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 04:48
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They're very useful, but now that they've been given minimum ranges they aren't quite so universally dominating. If you keep them out of point blank range engagements, they are very useful. The long range recoiless rifles also make them excellent for defending towns against assaults. Pop them around likely attack vectors and they will smash transports and infantry alike as they approach. The others do this, but not quite as well. In city fights they can also be great, but try to keep them out of minimum range engagements.
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May 9, 2014 05:26
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We had a hell of a game tonight, where both Donglord and I ran out of CVs. The problem is, I think 5 CV kills were to ATACMS. I had a Smerch that I've been using as counterbattery to great effect, but the ATACMS might as well be invisible. By the time you see them in the air it's too late to check where they are, and unlike tube artillery there's no point watching for their launch because they only fire like every 5 minutes. In fact most of the game he was firing in bursts of 1 shot, which makes detection of the launcher virtually impossible. We had our whole team (I assume, since I was doing it) trying to watch for the ATACMS location and unfortunately the only time we spotted it was when the Smerch was already firing. I wish I had kept that spot marked though, because if you watch the replay you'll notice he never even moved them. He was incredibly lazy with them, scored 5 CV kills, and we were unable to respond. My conclusion: ATACMS are broken. We ended up winning the game, but the ATACMS use managed to drag it out and let them come back from an early deficit purely by repeatedly (and a few times blindly) sniping our commands from literally 20 kilometers away. Anyway, replay is here. This city is our territory. OURS. Also, I could use some advice on how to take a town from PALR MILANs and Panzerjagers.  Or at least how to get around them... and half a dozen Leopards and Gepards.
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 13:43 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 13:41
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Llyranor posted:How do you guys find Fire Support infantry teams? That HE AoE damage seems nice. How effective are they in cities? The ranges of the Eryx and the asian guns seem nice, but the ROF of course suffers. How much does that extra range matter in city fighting anyway? That SMAW actually seems pretty good! Shock units, and extra range compared to the MAW without losing anything. SMAWs are incredible, yeah. Tanke Shashou '85 are probably the best for Redfor, with their long range and decent AP power. Only problem is the low ammo count.
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May 9, 2014 14:46
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I like to put fire support team in IFV, that way I can get good number of IFV without having to get line infantry. For example, recoiless rifle with that Japanese IFV in my blue dragon deck. It complements IFV better anyways since its longer range allows recoiless rifle to fight with IFV at long range.
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May 9, 2014 18:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m49dYtVeoNg Ever wanted to see someone jump a BMP-2?
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May 10, 2014 02:41
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May 10, 2014 03:59
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Jet Age posted:FSJ are sort of known as super death ninjas though so they attract a lot of napalm, whereas people see Li Jian and get them confused with Juckwoedae and Lie Ren and a bunch of other names that don't sound familiar and then try to attack them with line infantry. I spent a game playing forest ninja with Li Jian yesterday, it was hilarious. 4 groups of 10, with 2 groups of 4 IGLA backing them up, and I'd use 1 Z-5 at a time if I needed a bit of fire support. If a Z-5 went down I'd just move another up. My opponent kept rolling Riflemen in, with Delta sometimes and just get wrecked. Funny as all hell. I'd probe his line, engage something, and just run back into the deep woods. He'd come in to where I had a picket line set up, get those guys slaughtered, then try and use gunships that the IGLA's would down. I probably earned 500 points with those units alone before they took them out. Li Jian are hilariously OP vs. infantry in the woods. It's almost comical.
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May 10, 2014 05:17
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Arglebargle III posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m49dYtVeoNg Those Ukrainian flags on the antennas are a pretty great middle finger to all those Russian separatists.
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May 10, 2014 06:08
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Russian buddy of mine says unearthed tree-stumps are a great barricade for BMP's in particular. Dunno how that was discovered, but hey. There it is! He also had some good vids on the effectiveness of particular tank obstacles/ditches versus tanks under certain conditions. Tank ditches as we know them are totally useless versus tanks at a certain speed etc. Depth is less important than width etc. I'll get em from em tonight and put em in that TFR thread if he's around 
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May 10, 2014 06:26
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Dandywalken posted:Russian buddy of mine says unearthed tree-stumps are a great barricade for BMP's in particular. Tree stumps make a lot of sense, wood is dense and strong, an angled stake line made of strong enough metal bars buried a good depth might also work.
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May 10, 2014 06:33
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Have we entered bizarro world with the recent patch where T-55s will take out a full health Leo2A5 in a couple of seconds? I have not been having much luck lately. EDIT: Also, it's getting really frustrating how in 10v10s, I wind up being all alone on one side, and yet my teammates still manage to loving lose everything. I just held off three people by myself. What did my 9 teammates do against the remaining 7 players on the other team? Fold practically during the opening. ohgodwhat fucked around with this message at 19:24 on May 10, 2014 |
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May 10, 2014 19:08
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ohgodwhat posted:
PlayingAGameWithPubbies.txt
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May 10, 2014 20:16
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quote:Have we entered bizarro world with the recent patch where T-55s will take out a full health Leo2A5 in a couple of seconds? I have not been having much luck lately.
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May 10, 2014 21:35
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I used to go toe to toe with M1a1s and Leo2a4s with east gearmin T72m1s on a regular basis and win back in ALB. The penetration bonus at short ranges make medium tanks brutal against light tanks, and a good sucker punch against heavys.
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May 10, 2014 21:38
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I also picked up this game and been having some fun, though one map has me confused on how blufor is supposed to win. Gunboat The old tale that the other side has better armoured units has also effected boats, Redfor boats are a beast and a bitch to take down, leading to navy rushes by redfor and backdooring the command bases. This is with pubbies as no goons where playing at this time, but what are some hints to survive this? I normally start on the coast line and use an  deck
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May 11, 2014 00:54
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I'm starting to think Gunboat (while otherwise a map I like) is pretty unbalanced in the Golf/Gregory area. The river, towns and cover form a natural 90 degree bend. One side has to maintain a salient indefinitely while the other has a 90 degree squeeze on their opponents by design. Unless you can break through in the first few minutes (made difficult by three people on the enemy team listening to your plans!  ) it's hard to accomplish anything in that area.
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May 11, 2014 02:16
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Could I have some deck critique please. Just to warn you, I am not aware of the current meta, so if there is anything I need to know, I'd appreciate the information. 
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May 11, 2014 02:29
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SkySteak posted:Could I have some deck critique please. Just to warn you, I am not aware of the current meta, so if there is anything I need to know, I'd appreciate the information. Supply chopper offer nice utilities, consider replacing one of your truck with supply chopper. I am not sure if you need both Stormer HVM and ADATS in the same deck. I'd say drop the ADATS for something else. (maybe one of the marksman platform Get a better recon chopper with exceptional optic. It will only be slightly more expensive at 70 points or so but much better at detecting things. Rarden is kind of crappy. It has a very short burst length but normal reload time, if it becomes suppressed it will spend most of the time reloading instead of shooting. Get LAV-25 from ANZAC instead. I think you can get another card of plane by dropping a card of tank and helo. A card of Kahu or some kind of bomber would be nice to round out your ground attack capability. pedro0930 fucked around with this message at 04:47 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 03:02
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Ever wanted to see someone jump a BMP-3? youtu.be/KolfSxNPN0k?t=2m6s I hear you say: "But Arglebargle, that's a BTR-90!" Watch for the BMP-3. 
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 04:42 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 04:38
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pedro0930 posted:I think you can get another card of plane by dropping a card of tank and helo. A card of Kahu or some kind of bomber would be nice to round out your ground attack capability. Specifically drop the CF-118 and one of the Chieftains for an F/A-18A. Best utility iron bomber in Commonwealth. Comedy option: F-111C. SEAD recently got a big buff and Commonwealth has some of the best non-radar AA in the game. I'd say keep the ADATS and drop the Rapier FSA for a standard Rapier.
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May 11, 2014 04:50
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Arglebargle III posted:Ever wanted to see someone jump a BMP-3? youtu.be/KolfSxNPN0k?t=2m6s  God drat that had to hurt for the poor loving crew. Tracked vehicles are not meant to jump like that!
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May 11, 2014 04:56
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Since people are talking deck critiques, JvAeCJrLaIN3l8wrPQ3WYhac8mBRAFoxMh8Q/MxFJDopEEh0YkKXOzBdIwiR+RCR+oTDEyqhVQSIKTEQ1EJDhRCK5FdOwVHI Is this utter crap? I'm really terrible at the game and in particular my ability to micro is tripe. I haven't jumped into a goon game yet though I'm sure I will sooner than later; building decks is a load of fun even if I have literally no clue what in the hell I'm doing.
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May 11, 2014 05:17
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 23:38 |
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LegioPraetoria posted:Since people are talking deck critiques, At a glance: I'd say definitely drop the blowpipes and take a Fire Support card. Either, the Eryx or MAW. I want to say MAW is better, but I don't have enough experience with Canadians to know. Also, I'd drop the TOW-2 jeep and take the TOW-2 LAV instead.
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May 11, 2014 06:27
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