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Oh I crunched that data the time before the time before last time this came up in the thread, but I must have deleted it cleaning up my google docs at one point.  . You can build it up from this sort of argument: If odds of drawing a land are x / 53 without fetching and x - 1 / 52 after a fetch, then subtract the ratios to find the decrease in chances of seeing a land: Say x is 24 for the sake of this example, we're talking 24 / 53 - 23 / 52 = .010, or 1%. Or, 99% as likely to find a land after fetching. This of course compounds each draw, but if you have 8 fetches and always fetch first I think it was like 13 draws or so before that .99^x came to 50%, or that you were as likely or not to have drawn an extra nonland. For the low low price of 3.7 life or something. It really is negligible.
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May 9, 2014 01:05
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DarkRider09 posted:So this might be a dumb question, but do basic lands need to be from the current legal sets for standard? Nope! Go ahead and use your white-bordered Revised lands.
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May 9, 2014 01:11
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Fetchlands with Crucible of Worlds are sweet in EDH. Guaranteed land drops, shuffles on cue, enough deck thinning to actually matter, not overtly obnoxious enough that people will often spend removal on it.
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May 9, 2014 01:16
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DarkRider09 posted:So this might be a dumb question, but do basic lands need to be from the current legal sets for standard? This, by the way, is true of any reprint - you can use Lorwyn thoughtseize in standard, for example. As an aside, Judge Cast recently did some episodes on types and noted that there's nothing in no rules saying lands are legal to play. If, somehow, WotC neglected to print basics for a couple years, they would rotate out just like any other card. Which makes perfect sense, of course, but it's still sorta funny to think about.
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May 9, 2014 01:17
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DarkRider09 posted:So this might be a dumb question, but do basic lands need to be from the current legal sets for standard? Nope. In fact, none of your cards need to be from any of the current legal sets. They must only have the same name as a card in a currently legal set, e.g.: you can use 7th edition swamp and 7th edition duress.
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May 9, 2014 01:21
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Boxman posted:This, by the way, is true of any reprint - you can use Lorwyn thoughtseize in standard, for example. incoming manaless dredge block
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May 9, 2014 01:28
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15 different versions of Ornithopter and Spellbook each, 30 colorless affinity cards.
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May 9, 2014 01:29
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DarkRider09 posted:So this might be a dumb question, but do basic lands need to be from the current legal sets for standard? No. In fact, you're encouraged (by me) to use best lands ever whenever possible
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May 9, 2014 01:31
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Just saw Judgecast mentioned and it sounds fun, even if I'm not a judge. I also listen to limited resources & drive to work -- what are other good MtG podcasts? I don't really care what formats or topics they cover, with two caveats -- #1, whoever's hosting has to have SOME sort of mic presence/listenable personality , and #2, I started playing pretty recently so I'd like to listen to a show where the hosts don't make a habit out of mentioning cards that came out five or six years ago and expect me to have the card text memorized. I understand this isn't an issue for a lot of long-term players, but I'm not one, and I rarely listen to podcasts while sitting in front of a computer so it's not that easy to look up unknown cards as I go.
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May 9, 2014 01:37
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goferchan posted:Just saw Judgecast mentioned and it sounds fun, even if I'm not a judge. I also listen to limited resources & drive to work -- what are other good MtG podcasts? I don't really care what formats or topics they cover, with two caveats -- #1, whoever's hosting has to have SOME sort of mic presence/listenable personality , and #2, I started playing pretty recently so I'd like to listen to a show where the hosts don't make a habit out of mentioning cards that came out five or six years ago and expect me to have the card text memorized. I understand this isn't an issue for a lot of long-term players, but I'm not one, and I rarely listen to podcasts while sitting in front of a computer so it's not that easy to look up unknown cards as I go. Spike Feed is a show about two longer players getting someone up to speed who just started. This week they celebrated his first FNM win 
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May 9, 2014 01:45
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Boxman posted:Spike Feed is a show about two longer players getting someone up to speed who just started. This week they celebrated his first FNM win Sweet, totally sounds up my alley, thanks~ I'll check it out
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May 9, 2014 01:49
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a dozen swans posted:incoming manaless dredge block Come on now, be realistic. I think you mean an all-nonbasic environment. And they already had that, it was called ISD-RTR standard. 
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May 9, 2014 02:23
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goferchan posted:Just saw Judgecast mentioned and it sounds fun, even if I'm not a judge. I also listen to limited resources & drive to work -- what are other good MtG podcasts? This article has a bunch of popular ones.
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May 9, 2014 02:37
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LordSaturn posted:Red-Black 8Rack, but that's about it at the moment. Do you have a list handy? A quick search around mtgtop8 turns up nothing.
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May 9, 2014 02:43
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suicidesteve posted:Nope! Go ahead and use your white-bordered Revised lands. That's what I do! They were about all I had left from when I originally played a million years ago when I got sucked back in.
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May 9, 2014 02:44
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suicidesteve posted:Nope! Go ahead and use your white-bordered Revised lands. Basic Land rotating would be hilarious for all the rules that get basics into your deck. Like your sideboard in limited is the only way to get them, or you put an illegal basic land in your deck, so you have to replace it with a basic land.
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May 9, 2014 02:55
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C-Euro posted:Do you have a list handy? A quick search around mtgtop8 turns up nothing. That's because 8rack is Bg, not Br.
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May 9, 2014 02:59
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suicidesteve posted:Nope! Go ahead and use your white-bordered Revised lands. For all your ugly land needs: https://sites.google.com/site/mtgbasics/
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May 9, 2014 04:41
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Saeku posted:Fetchlands with Crucible of Worlds are sweet in EDH. Guaranteed land drops, shuffles on cue, enough deck thinning to actually matter, not overtly obnoxious enough that people will often spend removal on it. 'Til you draw Strip Mine. 
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May 9, 2014 04:46
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Mikujin posted:'Til you draw Strip Mine. Yeah, and then they snap concede if you're on modo, promptly calling you a "fag" followed by blocking you. My modo brothers know I speak hard truths
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May 9, 2014 04:48
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Is the infinite mana combo if you have 2 myr galvanizers + mana producers out a valid thing or just a really speculative, fragile rube goldberg type setup that fails in practice?
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May 9, 2014 04:53
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change my name posted:Is the infinite mana combo if you have 2 myr galvanizers + mana producers out a valid thing or just a really speculative, fragile rube goldberg type setup that fails in practice? There are much easier and less fragile ways to get infinite mana, and even more ways to get "enough" mana (usually 21 for a Fireball-type effect)
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May 9, 2014 04:55
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Okay yeahhh that's what I figured.
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May 9, 2014 04:57
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Tharizdun posted:A math nerd cruched the numbers and found that except in extreme edge cases (like legacy burn decks that run south of 14 lands) there is no appreciable "deck thinning" advantage to any number of fetches that a regular player playing between 5-15 games a week would notice before the heat death of the universe. I think people still believe fetches for deck-thinning is a thing because they've seen mono-red decks running fetches, but forget that it was to fuel Grim Lavamancer or the like. Deathrite Shaman got good use out of fetches before being banned, too. change my name posted:Is the infinite mana combo if you have 2 myr galvanizers + mana producers out a valid thing or just a really speculative, fragile rube goldberg type setup that fails in practice? change my name posted:Last dumb question: do those lands that give you two mana in return for having to put a land back into your hand when played have any utility? The effect activates when it comes into play from anywhere, so you can't get around it. Basically 2 steps forward but 1 step back.
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May 9, 2014 05:06
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change my name posted:Last dumb question: do those lands that give you two mana in return for having to put a land back into your hand when played have any utility? The effect activates when it comes into play from anywhere, so you can't get around it. Basically 2 steps forward but 1 step back. I'm trying two of those kinds of lands in my EDH deck (the ones that came in the commander deck I bought) because I figure that while it's 2 steps forward and 1 back it's 3 mana for 2 lands as opposed to 3 mana for 3 lands. But "good" lands are expensive and I'm a relatively low budget player so I'll use what I have.
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May 9, 2014 05:12
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Entropic posted:
Yeah, Matthias Hunt played this deck at PT BNG: https://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptbng14/video3 It also runs Hive Mind and a bunch of pacts, being able to power out a turn 2 or turn 3 Hive Mind and then force your opponent to pay for one or more Pacts, causing them to lose the game.
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May 9, 2014 05:12
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Entropic posted:I think people still believe fetches for deck-thinning is a thing because they've seen mono-red decks running fetches, but forget that it was to fuel Grim Lavamancer or the like. Ehh, Deceiver Exarch seems much better to me? With Pestermite you can only twiddle non-lands, but with an Exarch you could technically create a ton of creatures as well as give yourself some spare mana if you needed it.
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May 9, 2014 05:14
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change my name posted:With Pestermite you can only twiddle non-lands, 
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May 9, 2014 05:21
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change my name posted:Ehh, Deceiver Exarch seems much better to me? With Pestermite you can only twiddle non-lands, but with an Exarch you could technically create a ton of creatures as well as give yourself some spare mana if you needed it. The combo is you play Deceiver Exarch or Pestermite on the end of your opponent's turn, then untap and cast Splinter Twin on it. Then you tap it to make a copy, and use the copy's untap ability to untap the original... which you can then tap to make another copy... You make an arbitrarily large number of 1/4 or 2/1 tokens with haste and attack your opponent for billions. No need to futz around with generating infinite mana. Entropic fucked around with this message at 05:24 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 05:22
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Huh, I read permanents as "non-land permanents" for some reason. Too bad copies of Splinter Twin are about $20 each now.
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May 9, 2014 05:24
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Entropic posted:There's a combo deck involving those lands and Amulet of Vigor and Explore effects to power out Primeval Titan or something ridiculously quickly, but it's not terribly consistent. And sometimes you just get a hand that top-decks 1 card perfectly to become hilariously stupid. I have played 4 Titans, given them all +2/+0-Haste-Vigilance and swung for 32 on turn 2. It was really stupid, and an absolutely hilarious draw involving 3 Amulets and 3 Summer Blooms.
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May 9, 2014 05:42
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Today's Arcana is pretty cool.
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May 9, 2014 05:48
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Entropic posted:The combo is you play Deceiver Exarch or Pestermite on the end of your opponent's turn, then untap and cast Splinter Twin on it. Then you tap it to make a copy, and use the copy's untap ability to untap the original... which you can then tap to make another copy... People being excessive with this is the reason that rakdos charm is a valid sideboard card against twin.
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May 9, 2014 05:48
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Mikujin posted:It was really stupid, and an absolutely hilarious draw involving 3 Amulets and 3 Summer Blooms. The Amulet triggers stack 
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May 9, 2014 05:50
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Tharizdun posted:Oh god. Wait.... Yes. If you can get 2 Amulets out, playing a Primeval Titan lets you attack for 20 that turn. ETB Trigger - fetch Boros Garrison + Slayer's Stronghold, use the +2/+0 ability twice. Attack Trigger - fetch Sunhome + Vesuva, make 4 mana, give it double-strike. Many a game has been ended this way. Obviously you don't do this all the time; far more often you use triggers to get Growth Chambers and Tolaria's to Transmute for Summoner's Pact and get more Titans.
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May 9, 2014 05:52
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That's not a squirrel, it's a chipmunk. 
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May 9, 2014 05:56
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What will happen first, Squirrels return to standard or MODO gets a working client?
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May 9, 2014 06:00
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BXCX posted:What will happen first, Squirrels return to standard or MODO gets a working client? Definitely squirrels. I can totally see a Trading Post type card that makes squirrels in a core set.
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May 9, 2014 06:03
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I would like some Squirrel throwback cards in M15. Except this time Deranged Hermit will read 'Squirrels you control get +1/+1.'
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May 9, 2014 06:04
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Entropic posted:Definitely squirrels. I can totally see a Trading Post type card that makes squirrels in a core set. Acorn Catapult or Squirrel Nest could probably go into a core set straight up. Acorn Catapult is a bit convoluted text and application wise but I'm going to say that if they designed it for a Commander box they probably aren't worried about casuals not being able to grok it.
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May 9, 2014 06:05
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