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Yeah they didn't look great against fnatic or SKT T1 K. I'm calling it now but clg will be the best NA team next split (because they bought better players from other regions).
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May 9, 2014 03:08
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Sorry if it's been explained before, but can someone explain the stakes of All-Stars to me? Last year they used their goofy format to determine who got an extra spot at Worlds and who didn't get a bye. Are there any such Worlds-related stakes this time, or are they just playing for money and pride?
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May 9, 2014 03:37
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Why are you making me wait another week for more content OGN? 
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May 9, 2014 03:48
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Jonny Angel posted:Sorry if it's been explained before, but can someone explain the stakes of All-Stars to me? Last year they used their goofy format to determine who got an extra spot at Worlds and who didn't get a bye. Are there any such Worlds-related stakes this time, or are they just playing for money and pride? As far as I know, yeah, it's just money and pride, and there are no byes at Worlds (We still don't know how many spots each region gets, but if Korea and China don't get 3 spots each, it'll be a travesty)
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May 9, 2014 04:19
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Jonny Angel posted:Sorry if it's been explained before, but can someone explain the stakes of All-Stars to me? Last year they used their goofy format to determine who got an extra spot at Worlds and who didn't get a bye. Are there any such Worlds-related stakes this time, or are they just playing for money and pride? I think it's just 50 grand, pride, and a paid trip to Paris. Fifty grand's about as big as a prize pool you're going to get outside worlds though, especially for a couple days' work.
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May 9, 2014 04:21
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TWSS posted:I'm calling it now but clg will be the best NA team next split (because they bought better players from other regions).
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May 9, 2014 05:30
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TWSS posted:Yeah they didn't look great against fnatic or SKT T1 K. I'm calling it now but clg will be the best NA team next split (because they bought better players from other regions). Yeah completely new player who barely speaks the language is guaranteed to make your team super-strong, heard it here first folks. To add why i don't think CLG will ever pass C9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoOMqiuFacM Watch this and compare CLG shot-calling with C9 shot-calling. Re the whole C9 vs Fnatic discussion - C9 is just good and Fnatic is poo poo at the moment, that's all there is to it. To reiterate: Fnatic can't play the map properly, they rotate slowly, their ward coverage is mediocre, they don't know when to pressure lanes correctly, they don't know how to utilize their comps correctly often, etc. And people talk of individual skill as a saving point but that's really not the case, Cyanide is inconsistent as hell and has always been, Soaz is good mechanically but there are plenty of people who are as good if not better and Soaz' inability to play meta champs well is REALLY hurting fnatic way more often than his ability to play AP's, Xpeke's in a slump, Yellowstar is quite overrated - gets caught easily, shallow champion pool. I'd argue that Rekkles has been a saving grave for his team so far but it really is not enough. Meanwhile you have C9 which is good at almost every team/map-related aspect that Fnatic is bad at, has a top-laner that's as mechanically good as Soaz and plays meta champ, has a really good jungle, inconsistent mid-laner that makes up with shot-calling and has a high skill ceiling still and a somewhat inconsistent bot with an ever improving adc. Also re why are Koreans better: people keep saying it's e-sports infrastructure and acceptance (the later aspect is mostly untrue btw), i think it's mostly attitude. They want to win the most, they want to train the hardest, they want the best scrim-partners, the best coaches, etc and they put in the effort to get those things. Korean teams had regimented schedules since season 2, they had more and more coaches coming in because they actually went and spent good money for them and it attracted many in the field (west still hasn't properly done this, except monte for clg and C9Charlie who mostly does pick/ban an strategy i can think of no stand-out coach; and west DOES have the money for it now) and they just had the better work ethic and it shows. The most basic example i can give is what Fnatic did - they won play-offs and they took a vacation/break from playing till 1 week before all-stars. I really doubt you'd see the Koreans do something like that especially if an extra worlds spot is on the line (assuming there is). uaciaut fucked around with this message at 06:00 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 05:51
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uaciaut posted:The most basic example i can give is what Fnatic did - they won play-offs and they took a vacation/break from playing till 1 week before all-stars. I really doubt you'd see the Koreans do something like that especially if an extra worlds spot is on the line (assuming there is). They obviously did that as part of a clever plot. They knew they'd lose to C9 and they wanted there to be a big public excuse for why another loss against C9 "doesn't count".
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May 9, 2014 06:06
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Keven. Just. Keven posted:Fnatic has not been preforming well this split and if c9 couldn't beat the current fnatic in a show match that would be uh fairly problematic. You are a giant retard and all of your posts in this thread are terrible.  OMG is so goddamn fun to watch, that Syndra was terrifying.
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May 9, 2014 06:37
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Hasn't Fnatic like dominated the EU leaderboard this split?
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May 9, 2014 06:38
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Looks like Hai is analyzing Cloud 9's game against SKT on stream right now. http://www.twitch.tv/hail9
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May 9, 2014 06:40
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Jonny Angel posted:Sorry if it's been explained before, but can someone explain the stakes of All-Stars to me? Last year they used their goofy format to determine who got an extra spot at Worlds and who didn't get a bye. Are there any such Worlds-related stakes this time, or are they just playing for money and pride? This year's All Stars is a legit international tournament of the best teams from each region, excusing the SK T1 K weirdness where apparently they have fallen off a bit lately, but still had enough circuit points to be the "best" team. The team that takes down this tournament will get a huge amount of prestige and hype, again with the possible exception of SK T1 K, which everyone expects to roll through the entire thing. I'm pretty sure SK T1 is bringing their A game to this tournament though. Winning Worlds and then OGN Champions are probably the only tournaments more prestigious than this tournament, in my opinion. IEM was a great international tourney but some of the best teams in the world stayed home by choice. I can't imagine anyone staying home by choice to miss this year's All Stars. I wish Riot would double down and just make a mid way second worlds tournament with twice as many teams from each region and just have a second Worlds tournament. mushi fucked around with this message at 06:49 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 06:42
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uaciaut posted:Also re why are Koreans better: people keep saying it's e-sports infrastructure and acceptance (the later aspect is mostly untrue btw), i think it's mostly attitude. They want to win the most, they want to train the hardest, they want the best scrim-partners, the best coaches, etc and they put in the effort to get those things. Korean teams had regimented schedules since season 2, they had more and more coaches coming in because they actually went and spent good money for them and it attracted many in the field (west still hasn't properly done this, except monte for clg and C9Charlie who mostly does pick/ban an strategy i can think of no stand-out coach; and west DOES have the money for it now) and they just had the better work ethic and it shows. I was watching Scarra stream recently and he mentioned that they're adding multiple coaches and a "bigger support structure" for Dignitas, although he wouldn't go into detail. It would be nice to see another team take coaching, strategy, and preparation into account but maybe it's just wishful thinking.
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May 9, 2014 06:45
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Jayisspecial posted:I feel like C9 must have gotten murdered so many times in scrims that they went into the game without any belief in what they could do. The pick ban phase was pathetic. They had a chance to play the best team in the world, maybe the only time they will ever get the chance, and they really didn't try to get anything out of it. If they play the same way against OMG I'm gonna be pretty sad that that is the best representation NA can get. I think they will do better though. No they kind of got shat on. That lane freeze in top lane, as soon as I saw it happen I cringed and noted that it's pretty much GG. Lemon and Sneaky hosed up with where they left the creep line for Balls. He had nowhere to go but to just gently caress around in the jungle splitting jungle exp/gold with Meteos and doing a bad roam to mid and almost giving Faker/Bengi a kill for it. Balls also hosed up in bot lane trying to stay for an obvious 1v2 tower dive and gave Vayne a kill for it. C9 kind of did the right thing in the mid-game by trying to repeatedly go for suicide split pushes and yolo plays instead of slowly and methodically losing the game, but they weren't able to pull a comeback out of their asses. Losing your shotcaller is a very big deal. Hai is the most important player on C9, not just because he has individual skill, but his ability to call shots for his team turns them from a good team into a great team. For example, recently against TSM in the NA LCS finals TheOddOne got a deep ward down on Meteos' red a few minutes before the 2nd spawn. Hai read this from mid lane, made note of it, and timed pushing out his lane and roaming top about 1 minute before the red buff respawn to force Dyrus to base(or kill him, I forgot which), which completely defused the potential red steal from TheOddOne. Dude is just smart and does so much for his team.
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May 9, 2014 06:51
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NTT posted:Hasn't Fnatic like dominated the EU leaderboard this split? They had a mid-split like 0-8 stretch where they looked super bad, but they were crushing other teams at the beginning and end of the split.
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May 9, 2014 06:52
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NTT posted:Hasn't Fnatic like dominated the EU leaderboard this split? No they started well, went to poo poo mid-split and then came back a bit in the end. EU standings have been generally close for a while. FWIW i really wish Alliance represented EU at this all-stars, really think they could've done better. Oh well. rabidsquid posted:I was watching Scarra stream recently and he mentioned that they're adding multiple coaches and a "bigger support structure" for Dignitas, although he wouldn't go into detail. It would be nice to see another team take coaching, strategy, and preparation into account but maybe it's just wishful thinking. I know, i saw his tweet a while back, it's a very good thing. I like most of Dig members i hope they improve a lot. Previous Jesus posted:Looks like Hai is analyzing Cloud 9's game against SKT on stream right now. http://www.twitch.tv/hail9 I said it before but Hai really does understand the game really well. OH god it's my first time watching the game C9 derped so much what the hell. uaciaut fucked around with this message at 06:56 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 06:52
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NTT posted:Hasn't Fnatic like dominated the EU leaderboard this split?  about how a "garbage" team took second place in the regular season (by one game) and won the playoffs pretty handily should sort of be taken with a grain of salt.NA caught up to EU a bit more this year and every series with C9 and Fnatic has been competitive. Anyone saying how C9 "can't hang internationally" is delusional, or what they really mean to say is, "can't hang with Korea" which is completely accurate about everyone not from Korea.
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May 9, 2014 06:56
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NTT posted:Hasn't Fnatic like dominated the EU leaderboard this split? Yeah, they took the top spot but apparently losing 2 games makes them the worst? It is a bit worrying to see the current SKT crush C9 when they've struggled so much in Korea though. Oh well, hopefully OMG can beat SKT.
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May 9, 2014 07:14
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TheChad posted:You are a giant retard and all of your posts in this thread are terrible. Someone please report this troll, thank you.
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May 9, 2014 07:15
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Keven. Just. Keven posted:Fnatic has not been preforming well this split and if c9 couldn't beat the current fnatic in a show match that would be uh fairly problematic. Well, Fnatic did win the spring split. I suppose you're backtracking on this then? Keven. Just. Keven posted:It's because the #1 team in NA by a huge margin is an All-American group that's insanely worse than even good euro teams never mind good Asian teams.
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May 9, 2014 07:31
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Perhaps you've moved on from this discussion already but the deciding difference between Korea and the rest of the world is the infrastructure they have. I'm sure you're tired of hearing it by now, but the difference really is monumental. Korean orgs have two teams so they can scrim and practice against each other, solo queue gods for practicing more specific stuff like lane match-ups etc, trainees who are basically young guys with potential throwing away their lives at the chance of becoming a starter, huge support staffs with player coaches, head coaches, analysts etc. Their mentality and approach to competitive gaming is on a completely different level and so is their drive to win. I highly recommend you watch these if you wanna know more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPRTkZEnDZQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfDKae7JgG0
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May 9, 2014 07:32
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Hypocrisy posted:Well, Fnatic did win the spring split. I suppose you're backtracking on this then? He's not, the game didn't count because reasons.
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May 9, 2014 07:34
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Keven. Just. Keven posted:Someone please report this troll, thank you. Right before All-Stars you said that C9 was insanely worse than all the top teams in EU and the skill difference between the two was "incredibly embarrassing" and you were a dick about your incredibly stupid opinion. Now you backtrack and call out other people for holding the same opinion you held, and are once again obnoxious about it. Think of The Chad as the voice of the people.
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May 9, 2014 07:39
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RIP ZEEZ
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Like I said before, Spring 2015 is when NA is going to be at it's strongest ever. After playing a split with Super CLG, Super TSM, and LMQ, C9 is finally going to be able to get significantly stronger, instead of just coasting at first/second position all season and dominating towards the end. The Summer split is going to make and break a lot of teams, but in 2015 NA might stand a legitimate chance in World's and All-Stars, instead of just trailing behind Korea, China, and sometimes EU. Looking at Gleeb streaming right now (New TSM support) he seems a lot more analytical than Xpecial did. He's calling out Annie's stacks as they happen, and doing really good at using Morgana Qs to keep her away when it matters. RealFoxy fucked around with this message at 08:11 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 08:08
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Korean teams have a good deal more money to work with as well. SK telecom and Samsung sponsoring teams is the equivalent of Verizon and apple sponsoring NA teams.
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May 9, 2014 08:11
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Savage Cracker posted:Korean teams have a good deal more money to work with as well. SK telecom and Samsung sponsoring teams is the equivalent of Verizon and apple sponsoring NA teams. What exactly do you base this on? I'm fairly certain most korean players make way less than those on Regi's team for example.
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May 9, 2014 08:25
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uaciaut posted:What exactly do you base this on? I'm fairly certain most korean players make way less than those on Regi's team for example. In the top 50 highest earning eSports players there are a ton of Koreans, including a lot of Korean LoL players, but no TSM members and only three Americans (although top-earning LoL players in general still haven't made as much as SC/DotA players). Regardless, I think it's less what the salary of the players are (which honestly might still be higher in Korea, considering how much it costs them to buy contracts and whatnot) but moreso that there's just a lot more money in eSports. Bigger companies sponsor teams (see: LG versus Kingston or iBuyPower etc.) and have more incentive to do so because a larger percentage of the market cares about eSports. Organizations have had much more time to develop, etc. etc. Things like the size of coaching staffs, the sophistication of facilities, the fact that most organizations can house their A and B teams in addition to solo queue practice partners, etc. etc. all speak to this. Korean eSports are just on a whole different level from NA especially. I guess that might not be obvious if you haven't followed an eSport outside of LoL, but whenever a game really catches on in Korea they just dominate it.
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May 9, 2014 08:45
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Just a reminder that All-Stars is two hours earlier today, starting in one hour (Forty minutes from this post actually) Hexakill: Team Ice vs Team Fire SKT vs OMG (Will definitely decide who wins All-Stars right here.) C9 vs TPA FNC vs SKT C9 vs OMG TPA vs FNC
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May 9, 2014 11:12
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at 6 am?? 
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May 9, 2014 11:16
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Jessie Tanner posted:Perhaps you've moved on from this discussion already but the deciding difference between Korea and the rest of the world is the infrastructure they have. I'm sure you're tired of hearing it by now, but the difference really is monumental. Korean orgs have two teams so they can scrim and practice against each other, solo queue gods for practicing more specific stuff like lane match-ups etc, trainees who are basically young guys with potential throwing away their lives at the chance of becoming a starter, huge support staffs with player coaches, head coaches, analysts etc. Their mentality and approach to competitive gaming is on a completely different level and so is their drive to win. Pro-tip: If you watch the Montecristo interview, try to skip through the bits where he talks about hanging out with tribes in the Amazon.
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May 9, 2014 11:21
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NTT posted:at 6 am??
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May 9, 2014 11:39
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That makes sense. Well I'm up anyway I guess?
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May 9, 2014 11:40
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foutre posted:In the top 50 highest earning eSports players there are a ton of Koreans, including a lot of Korean LoL players, but no TSM members and only three Americans (although top-earning LoL players in general still haven't made as much as SC/DotA players). The only top 50 earnings i've ever seen is based ONLY on tournament prize money, not on money the organizations pay the players since this info rarely gets out. TSM won 0 tournaments outside of US and the ones they won inside didn't have that much prize money. I don't claim to be swimming in exact info here either, the closest i have was a discussion Monte was involved in where someone was complaining that we're living in a world where Nintendude makes more money than Kakao and Zion more than Flame. I did think this is actually possible since players in LCS get salaries/cash from their organizations on top of the money from Riot provided the organization is rich enough. And then thinking that people like Dyrus and Oddone get 20k+ viewers on a daily basis and TSM has a lot of fans and sells a lot of merchandise it's really not far fetched that TSM members are probably the highest-payed in LoL. This is where you can divert some of the money that goes into the orga and the players into a full-time coaching staff and try to improve the infrastructure in that regard because if the job is lucrative financially more people who want it will appear. Meanwhile, afaik, Riot is putting 0 cents in the pockets of the Korean players who are without a doubt the best in the world (talk about fairness) and the only money that goes out to them is what the organizations, who are united under Kespa, decide to give them. Hence why i think most organizations there have similar standard salaries and only teams with top results get more - i know for a fact that players get bonuses for wins (KTB get double win bonuses for matches vs SKT for example). Also i do know for a fact that Chinese pros get poo poo for money since Tabe came forward and said that they make about 1k$/month there, and this was when Royal was a top team in LPL. So i'm not really sure how far this "we don't have enough money" excuse goes, i think NA actually has enough money around to create a much better and more efficient infrastructure and while some teams are making heavy investments in things like transfers, i still don't see the money going that efficiently into improving the scene. uaciaut fucked around with this message at 11:57 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 11:40
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uaciaut posted:Meanwhile, afaik, Riot is putting 0 cents in the pockets of the Korean players who are without a doubt the best in the world (talk about fairness) Anyway, it's up to OGN to pay for their players, they run the league ergo they pay the players. If Riot was running LCS in Korea, they'd be paying those players. NA players make so much almost exclusively because of the branding they do and streaming, that's an income they're making entirely outside of LCS and Riot Games, and nothing is really stopping Faker from streaming to 20k viewers a night in Korea other than Faker and the SKT organization.
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May 9, 2014 11:45
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Korean pro gamers make piss all for money unless they are the very top guys and can get big sponsorships and poo poo, then they can make some serious cash. Their whole scene is intensive child labor, which is why they will always be the best at any game that is popular in Korea. When your entire life experience becomes nearly exclusively serious practice of a game, and you're really young with incredible reflexes, you get really loving good at it.
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May 9, 2014 11:46
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For League pros, yearly income comes from four sources: tournament winnings, LCS salary (35k$ a year, Riot pays this), team salary (obviously, think this I read this was about 2k$ a month for recent XDG players) and streaming income. Tournament winnings outside of Worlds are pretty negligible, but of the three following sources only one is open to Koreans, none of whom are really allowed to stream and who Riot doesn't pay a dime to. I'd be curious as to what top 50 you are referring to, since http://www.esportsearnings.com/players has gently caress all to do with earnings or salary for much of anything. uaciaut posted:I don't claim to be swimming in exact info here either, the closest i have was a discussion Monte was involved in where someone was complaining that we're living in a world where Nintendude makes more money than Kakao and Zion more than Flame. I really don't have a hard time believing this is true, and would be surprised if the median wage for an OGN pro is over 40k$ a year. Back when there was a lot of money in SC:BW, more than there ever was in SC2, you would probably go from earning a small allowance to a way-less-than-minimum-wage salary, if you were making it to the OSL/MSL RO32-16 semi-regularly. Being a top 20% Proleague mainstay would probably get you 30-40k$ a year. The absolute top pros who have been performing on the highest level for a while (first to become the best, only then to negotiate a raise) might be able to earn six figures in League, but I'd be surprised if there were more than five people in Korea making that much. Below that, the 99% are working on slave contracts when you look at the hours they put in. It's a tough industry. For comparison, add up C9, TSM, CLG and Fnatic, divide by twenty and they'll have average salaries at 100k$+ no sweat. Talking out of my rear end, but I'd give good odds betting for it. Ihki fucked around with this message at 12:01 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 11:54
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Tough industry doesn't begin to describe it, really. The only justification for it is 'lol, getting paid to play videogames'. e; casual racism in the twitch chat, good job english speaking people! 
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May 9, 2014 11:56
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HYPE
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May 9, 2014 12:00
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I hate that Riot events are always Start time > 25 minutes of talking > 3 minute break > 10 minutes of talking > 30 minute game > 40 more minutes of talking Why can't the first game start 10 minutes after the show.
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May 9, 2014 12:03
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Yeah I'd like to know the 'show start' time and the 'game start' time.
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May 9, 2014 12:04
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