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Cowcaster posted:Now, Kalameet on the other hand, he's an interesting boss fight. I think I developed post-traumatic vidya game rage syndrome from trying to get that fuckers tail 
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May 11, 2014 03:41
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I think part of what's going on is that most of the people playing Dark Souls 2 are DS1 veterans. When Queelag exploded, I'd never seen something like that before. When O&S completely overwhelmed me, I was completely unprepared. When the Four Kings bumrushed me and that music and the abyss and which way is up and that's a huge swor- YOU DIED. Dark Souls 2 has plenty of those moments, I think most of us are just kinda used to them at this point.
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May 11, 2014 03:41
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Ledgem posted:What the hell is going on in this thread? every opinion is replied to with rage and insults and some of the people who like DS2 best cannot seem to comprehend anyone not, and a few of the fans of the previous ones are making hyperbole about the games. Seems like people are just talking about what they do and don't like in Dark Souls 1 and Dark Souls 2? Am I missing some huge undercurrent of rage and insults or something?
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May 11, 2014 03:41
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Red Crown posted:I think part of what's going on is that most of the people playing Dark Souls 2 are DS1 veterans. When Queelag exploded, I'd never seen something like that before. When O&S completely overwhelmed me, I was completely unprepared. When the Four Kings bumrushed me and that music and the abyss and which way is up and that's a huge swor- YOU DIED. I'm not sure "veterans" answers everything. I played Demon's Souls after DS1 and was very impressed by lots of the bosses and levels.
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May 11, 2014 03:43
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Is it weird, then, that I was still impressed with a lot of things including bosses in DS2?
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May 11, 2014 03:44
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Cowcaster posted:Now, Kalameet on the other hand, he's an interesting boss fight. But why was he an interesting fight? Like, I'm not trying to pick another stupid AD/TLG slapfight here, but I'm genuinely trying to figure out what makes a non-gimmick boss "good" mechanically. Aesthetics are always subjective so that doesn't matter, but why is boss A more fun or better designed than boss B? It's obviously hard to please everyone when you make a boss, especially when you have to account for that every build should have a realistic chance of beating a it.
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May 11, 2014 03:44
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I've decided a dex build is a lost cause; what's the easiest way to do a mundane build? I have some idea for weapons, bluemoon greatsword, santier spear and power stanced avelyns. I'm not really sure where my points should go first so I don't end up useless like my dex build was.
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May 11, 2014 03:44
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Red Crown posted:I think part of what's going on is that most of the people playing Dark Souls 2 are DS1 veterans. When Queelag exploded, I'd never seen something like that before. When O&S completely overwhelmed me, I was completely unprepared. When the Four Kings bumrushed me and that music and the abyss and which way is up and that's a huge swor- YOU DIED. If we're going that route, anyone complaining about mob bosses hasn't played/has forgotten about Demon's Souls. The boss of 1-1, Phalanx, was a mob boss with a bunch of an enemy you fought in the level. The big thing is people like the one they played first the most and the next one is just derivative slop with no sense of creativity. They're all great games but people will take what they saw first and hold it as the gold standard a lot of the time.
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May 11, 2014 03:45
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Red Crown posted:Dark Souls 2 has plenty of those moments, I think most of us are just kinda used to them at this point. That's exactly what I think. People complain that Dark Souls 2 Bosses are way easier, but they don't feel much different to me in general than they did in Dark Souls 1. I mean, I could clown O and S solo after enough practice with their patterns, that's all it comes down to. The majority of the player base is just much more versed in the sorts of skills Dark Souls wants you to have, and since the developers want to sell their game to people besides people who played Dark Souls 1, they don't ask for too much more than that.
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May 11, 2014 03:45
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Foxhound posted:But why was he an interesting fight?
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May 11, 2014 03:49
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Internet Kraken posted:No see its okay that every boss in Dark Souls can be easily beaten just by huddling behind a shield because...? Overall, Dark Souls 2 boss fights are objectively worse than 1 though. I mean, look no further than Ornstein and Smough vs The Throne Defenders. Every single boss fight in Dark Souls 2 was a massive disappointment (exceptions being Smelter and to a lesser extent, Pursuer).
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May 11, 2014 03:50
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Is it weird, then, that I was still impressed with a lot of things including bosses in DS2? No, it means you're not shoving your head into a puddle of liquid nostalgia. I can't believe people are honestly arguing that the loving Asylum Demon is a better boss than Last Giant. I was really impressed when I figured out the lore behind Last Giant. Near the very end of the game you suddenly realize what his story is, and the fight means so much more. You realize why the Last Giant is such a pitiful creature and why he is completely overwhelmed with rage at the mere sight of you. You realize all of this without the game saying a single word. You fight the Giant Lord and it just clicks. The game manages to give the tutorial boss significant story relevance. But Asylum Demon is better...because he jumps. You know, there are a lot of bosses in Dark Souls 2 that do surprising things if you let them. Covetous Demon will strip off all your armour if you let him grab you. That's pretty surprising! Is he a good fight now just because of that? Dr. Carwash posted:Overall, Dark Souls 2 boss fights are objectively worse than 1 though. I mean, look no further than Ornstein and Smough vs The Throne Defenders. Every single boss fight in Dark Souls 2 was a massive disappointment (exceptions being Smelter and to a lesser extent, Pursuer). Yeah and I don't agree with that at all. I've read what you have posted and haven't responded to it because it feels like you're playing a totally different game. I love most of the boss fights in Dark Souls 2. There are some lovely ones but overall I think they are very good. Dark Souls had plenty of bosses that were easy or just plain bad as well. VVV I'm perfectly calm, I'm just baffled. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 03:53 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 03:50
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Foxhound posted:But why was he an interesting fight? I guess you mostly had to learn the individual tells for his attacks and respond accordingly. You couldn't just block everything he did with a giant shield, or roll your way out of everything he did, or nuke him to death with overpowered sorcery from a safe distance. Shield would do for his leg stomps, and maybe even his charge, but it'd get you cooked by his flame breath or telekinesis. Cartwheels would get you out of his psychic attack but wouldn't clear enough distance from his nuke everything below him flame, you needed to sprint for it. Everything he did had a way to mitigate it but you had to know it and react quickly enough to take advantage of it. Internet Kraken posted:No, it means you're not shoving your head into a puddle of liquid nostalgia. Ok you might actually need to take a couple of deep breaths to be honest.
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May 11, 2014 03:50
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Dr. Carwash posted:Overall, Dark Souls 2 boss fights are objectively worse than 1 though. I mean, look no further than Ornstein and Smough vs The Throne Defenders. Every single boss fight in Dark Souls 2 was a massive disappointment (exceptions being Smelter and to a lesser extent, Pursuer). Objectively doesn't mean what you apparently think it means.
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May 11, 2014 03:51
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Dr. Carwash posted:Overall, Dark Souls 2 boss fights are objectively worse than 1 though. I mean, look no further than Ornstein and Smough vs The Throne Defenders. Every single boss fight in Dark Souls 2 was a massive disappointment (exceptions being Smelter and to a lesser extent, Pursuer). Literally, objectively, and unironically every boss fight in every souls game is terrible because I said so here are my reasons: 
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May 11, 2014 03:52
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Bobby The Rookie posted:Kalameet had a diverse moveset which wasn't trivial to avoid, was aggressive in going after you, and didn't go down in a minute. Geez I wrote up that whole wall of words thanks a lot Bobby.
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May 11, 2014 03:52
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Internet Kraken posted:
How so? Just compare O+S to the Throne Defenders. TTD just kinda randomly swing their weapons around while O+S had a great syngergy with each other. Artorias and Manus were DLC, granted, but they were 1000000x more difficult and varied than anything in DS2. Also, I killed almost every single boss in this game in 1-shot, so they felt pretty loving lacking in terms of difficulty. Veldstadt? Awful. Lost Sinner? Terrible. Dragonrider? No different than a random mob. Spider Queen? Looked cool, but dead in a few chops. The final boss? Had only like 2-3 attacks and died instantly.
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May 11, 2014 03:57
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I actually prefer Last Giant as an introductory boss compared to Asylum Demon or Taurus Demon, simply because his stuff's a lot more telegraphed, there's greater room to dodge his swings/stomps, and you can figure out the "safe zones" for him relatively quickly. He pauses midway through the battle to rip off his arm, which gives you some time to wail on him, and he'll actually collapse in the second phase onto the ground if you let it go on long enough.
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May 11, 2014 03:58
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Internet Kraken posted:No, it means you're not shoving your head into a puddle of liquid nostalgia. The fact that they went "You actually TRAVEL BACK IN TIME! OOOOooooOOoOooOOoh!" was so loving stupid I could barely believe it at first. It would be fine if you just visited the actual "memories". It's not "deep" or anything, it's just dump.
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May 11, 2014 04:00
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With the drangleic sword and other greatswords, is the LT attack when twohanding it a parry? I can't tell.
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May 11, 2014 04:00
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Broken Cog posted:The fact that they went "You actually TRAVEL BACK IN TIME! OOOOooooOOoOooOOoh!" was so loving stupid I could barely believe it at first. It would be fine if you just visited the actual "memories". It's not "deep" or anything, it's just dump. SPOILERS: The Dark Souls 1 DLC was literally the same loving thing.
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May 11, 2014 04:01
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The best bosses of both games are the ones where you can't just continually circle around them to avoid most of their mechanics. Last Giant, Asylum Demon, Pursuer, Vendrick, I forget if Taurus is one, but Dark Souls 2 just seems to have more of them. That doesn't make every DS2 boss easy. Remember that the DS1 DLC bosses were just that - DLC. PC master racists got it for free, but those fights were a lot better than the release ones. DS2 doesn't have DLC yet.
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May 11, 2014 04:01
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kazil posted:SPOILERS: The Dark Souls 1 DLC was literally the same loving thing. I know, that's why it was so dumb.
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May 11, 2014 04:01
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Yeah it's just not strong an impact the second time around. Still there are lots of different things and ways to play the game and so you have people with vastly different experiences all around. Heck, I made my second character a mage who I made into a 20 all-stat so I can play with Mundane weapons (which are amazing) and despite me having her running around in a desert sorceress set nearly always, defense-wise getting hit wasn't bad and the extra mobility was a godsend. Then again, knowing the majority of the boss patterns makes that a lot easier. Still, being dodgy + a good shield combined with bundled in range attacks and it's like a whole different ballgame. It's kind of silly how sometimes the approach to the bosses are more terrible than the actual bosses themselves, but you can't make go ahead making every boss as crazy as Oreo and Smores or it just loses all the impact. e: I thought it was pretty neat with the whole Last Giant thing, up until Black Gultch and hey Last Giant #2 and 3 reporting in. What? Oh and when you go into the memories and fight the actual giants which are all hurr hurr gently caress your shield, btw we're all going to dogpile on you three to one. Last Giant because he was the last in line at the canteen every day and never got the vitamins and minerals he needed to be fast and strong and any kind of legitimate threat. nftyw fucked around with this message at 04:06 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 04:01
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Vermain posted:I actually prefer Last Giant as an introductory boss compared to Asylum Demon or Taurus Demon, simply because his stuff's a lot more telegraphed, there's greater room to dodge his swings/stomps, and you can figure out the "safe zones" for him relatively quickly. He pauses midway through the battle to rip off his arm, which gives you some time to wail on him, and he'll actually collapse in the second phase onto the ground if you let it go on long enough. Best introduction is killing the Vanguard in Demon's Souls and then getting smashed to a fine paste by the Dragon God, forcing you to start the real game in soul form (so you had 50% health).  I'm completely biased but Demon's Souls had the best introductory level, 1-1 was incredible.
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May 11, 2014 04:02
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WHEN RAGDOLLS ATTACK
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May 11, 2014 04:02
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Broken Cog posted:I know, that's why it was so dumb. Time shenanigans is what Dark Souls is about though...
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May 11, 2014 04:03
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Dreggon posted:The best bosses of both games are the ones where you can't just continually circle around them to avoid most of their mechanics. One of the problems mentioned was that a lot of the bosses really were just "large guy with big weapon(s)", and there's only so much you can do with their attack patterns, in that case. It's not that DS2 doesn't have solid boss battles, but that there's way too many milquetoast ones padding it out. Broken Cog posted:I know, that's why it was so dumb. Why was it dumb, exactly?
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May 11, 2014 04:03
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Dr. Carwash posted:How so? Just compare O+S to the Throne Defenders. TTD just kinda randomly swing their weapons around while O+S had a great syngergy with each other. Artorias and Manus were DLC, granted, but they were 1000000x more difficult and varied than anything in DS2. Also, I killed almost every single boss in this game in 1-shot, so they felt pretty loving lacking in terms of difficulty. Veldstadt? Awful. Lost Sinner? Terrible. Dragonrider? No different than a random mob. Spider Queen? Looked cool, but dead in a few chops. The final boss? Had only like 2-3 attacks and died instantly. Artorias could be chumped simply by hiding behind a great shield. If you don't have a great shield, you can just learn to dodge against him, its really not that hard. The first time I fought Artorias was with my SL 20 dickwraith and no shield, so he was kind of challenging. When I fought him with an appropriately leveled character, he was a total joke and went down in one try as well. Manus I think I've died to all of once. His attacks look scary but they aren't that hard to avoid. I don't consider him to be difficult in the slightest. So the bosses you think are hard? I think they were easy as hell. Just because I knew how to beat them easily doesn't mean they are bad though. At some point you have to realize that boss difficulty can be pretty subjective. Frankly, I rate bosses more on how fun I find them to fight rather than how difficult they are. Most of the Dark Souls 2 bosses are fun because they are well designed. I've never died to Skeleton Lords but love fighting them just because its a cool fight. VVV I don't remember a single thing saying you altered history. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 04:07 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 04:04
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Vermain posted:
kazil posted:Time shenanigans is what Dark Souls is about though... When I first did those memories, I thought they had at least done something original, because when you first enter them, they're presented as being something "abstract". But nope, when you read descriptions it turns out you actually go back in time and "alter history". It just feels like the dev team tried so drat hard to be the Dark Souls 1 story that it kinda got pathetic. Internet Kraken posted:VVV I don't remember a single thing saying you altered history. There's some description that says the Giants were defeated by a "Mysterious hero" or something that disappeared after defeating them. That's you, you're that hero. Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 04:09 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 04:06
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Yeah so, 2-handing my Havel's Sheild+3 is doing more damage than 2-handing my Greatsword+10  Both are doing a lot of damage mind, but Havel's is just slightly out-pacing the greatsword.
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May 11, 2014 04:09
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Broken Cog posted:When I first did those memories, I thought they had at least done something original, because when you first enter them, they're presented as being something "abstract". But nope, when you read descriptions it turns out you actually go back in time and "alter history". It just feels like the dev team tried so drat hard to be the Dark Souls 1 story that it kinda got pathetic. You are really reaching for reasons to hate Darks Souls 2 at this point. DkS2 can't win when it does call backs to DkS1, and it can't win when it does things differently from DkS1.
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May 11, 2014 04:09
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Wait you go back in time? But they're memories. I thought you were just taking the place of the person who experienced these things. If the actual story is that you went back in time to initiate the events of the game that is just dumb bullshit.
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May 11, 2014 04:11
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Time travel in a game where 'the flow of time is distorted'? Dumb bullshit, 0/10.
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May 11, 2014 04:12
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Broken Cog posted:There's some description that says the Giants were defeated by a "Mysterious hero" or something that disappeared after defeating them. That's you, you're that hero. ...or it could just be another person. You the game is all about cycles so it could just be a hero similar to you, and that you aren't literally going back in time. Rather, you're taking on the role of the person in that time. Seriously, THAT'S your reason for thinking its trying to ape Dark Souls 1? Bobnumerotres posted:Wait you go back in time? But they're memories. I thought you were just taking the place of the person who experienced these things. You don't. Broken Cog is just wrong.
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May 11, 2014 04:13
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kazil posted:You are really reaching for reasons to hate Darks Souls 2 at this point. The problem is that nothing they did differently from the earlier games is interesting in any way. Had they actually done something interesting, I wouldn't be complaining. The whole game just feels like "Fanservice: The game" to me, and it rubs me the wrong way. From the beginning when the old Fire Keepers laugh at you because "You're gonna die over and over again, hurr hurr!", to the "cameo's" like Ornstein and The great souls in NG+. I just feel the entire world would be more interesting if they actually tried to make an original story with ties to the first one, instead of literally trying to be the first game. Also, I mentioned earlier, but I wasn't all that much of a fan of DS1, a lot of people are making some good arguments here for why that game is bad, though. Internet Kraken posted:
You mentioned yourself that the Last Giant flies into a rage when he sees you, why do you think that is?
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May 11, 2014 04:13
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Internet Kraken posted:You don't. Broken Cog is just wrong. Yeah, it's not that you go back in time, it's that it's not your character's first time in Drangleic. The intro implies it as well. Except I guess the dragon memory, but I thought it was more that your guy forgot, because they're going hollow.
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May 11, 2014 04:15
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Broken Cog posted:The problem is that nothing they did differently from the earlier games is interesting in any way. Had they actually done something interesting, I wouldn't be complaining. The whole game just feels like "Fanservice: The game" to me, and it rubs me the wrong way. From the beginning when the old Fire Keepers laugh at you because "You're gonna die over and over again, hurr hurr!", to the "cameo's" like Ornstein and The great souls in NG+. So you didn't like Dark Souls 1 all that much. You clearly don't like Dark Soul 2. Why are you even here still then?
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May 11, 2014 04:16
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RBA Starblade posted:Yeah, it's not that you go back in time, it's that it's not your character's first time in Drangleic. The intro implies it as well. Except I guess the dragon memory, but I thought it was more that your guy forgot, because they're going hollow. Huh, that makes a surprising amount of sense and I never put that together somehow.
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May 11, 2014 04:17
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kazil posted:So you didn't like Dark Souls 1 all that much. You clearly don't like Dark Soul 2. Why are you even here still then? Because although I wasn't too much of a fan of the gameplay and level design of DS1, I liked the world and the way they presented it.
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May 11, 2014 04:18
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