|
Chin Strap posted:The one area of "maddening frugality" that makes me sad is when people who make large incomes don't contribute to charity. My job, for instance, will match 100% of charitable donations up to like 6k a person each year. With the salaries most of my coworkers make there is no reason at all that shouldn't be an easy thing to cap out each year, but instead the overwhelming majority don't use it at all. I don't know, I think that I would rather volunteer than donate money. It seems more satisfying to me, and given the disconnect between one's salary and the actual value of one's skills it seems like it's arguably more helpful if you're doing work you're good at.
|
#
?
May 8, 2014 12:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 12:11 |
|
|
semicolonsrock posted:I don't know, I think that I would rather volunteer than donate money. It seems more satisfying to me, and given the disconnect between one's salary and the actual value of one's skills it seems like it's arguably more helpful if you're doing work you're good at. There are a lot more people willing to volunteer their time or work for nonprofits than there is money to pay them. It's fine to volunteer if you want to and it makes you feel good, but it's probably not actually the best way to help people. If you have a specialized trade, like you are a lawyer or doctor or something, you might be right, but outside of that I think you can do more good by working + donating. I'm planning on end of life donation rather than incremental donation - I don't think we're in any danger of world hunger/disease ending before I die. I don't have company matching though, so cool if you can take advantage of that.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2014 15:00
|
|
|
semicolonsrock posted:I don't know, I think that I would rather volunteer than donate money. It seems more satisfying to me, and given the disconnect between one's salary and the actual value of one's skills it seems like it's arguably more helpful if you're doing work you're good at. In theory, but you can't roll up your sleeves and make clean water and tuberculosis drugs for third-world children. And the fact you can't help all of them doesn't mean you shouldn't help any of them.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2014 15:35
|
|
|
Jeffrey posted:I'm planning on end of life donation rather than incremental donation - I don't think we're in any danger of world hunger/disease ending before I die. I don't have company matching though, so cool if you can take advantage of that. Same here. I can make a bigger relative donation by investing the money and donating later, and I can even set up donations to continue after I die. I'd like to create perpetual scholarships personally. https://www.vanguardcharitable.org/individuals/
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2014 18:34
|
|
|
I try to donate $3000 a year and work matches $750. Money is better than time for donation.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2014 20:19
|
|
|
spwrozek posted:I try to donate $3000 a year and work matches $750. Money is better than time for donation. Unless your specific skill set is advising non profits! (Though I realize this is not most people's job)
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2014 20:42
|
|
|
My previous employer used to give $5000 annually to every single employee to be donated to their charity of choice anywhere in the world which I thought was pretty awesome. I try to make it a habit to donate ~$500 a month to IRC.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2014 22:54
|
|
|
PS I highly recommend researching charities to see how well they spend money. This is a cool site that rates charities based on how many lives they can effectively save per dollar donated. http://www.givewell.org/
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2014 22:55
|
|
|
Jeffrey posted:PS I highly recommend researching charities to see how well they spend money. This is a cool site that rates charities based on how many lives they can effectively save per dollar donated. http://www.givewell.org/ I hate that they like Give Directly, but their rationale is sound so I gave money to Give Directly. 
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 01:39
|
|
|
tuyop posted:I hate that they like Give Directly, but their rationale is sound so I gave money to Give Directly. Give Directly rule. Science + Charity = Win.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 10:30
|
|
|
A question about financial independence, I've only had a full time job for a few years, should I prioritise saving to buy a flat closer to my work over buying into ETF's or mutual funds? Here in Australia there's a scheme to encourage potential first home buyers to save by giving a 17% match on the first $6000 you put into the account. I started one last year, but I'm wondering if I should continue putting money into it or if I should have my assets more liquid since you can't take the money out once it's in. For what it's worth, I'm 23, sort of hate my commute and would really like to live closer to work, and have about half a years gross salary in my superannuation (Aussie retirement savings), roughly a quarter of a years salary in reasonably illiquid savings (the first home saver account and ETF's) and about a third of a years salary in savings. I'm leaning towards putting a certain amount into the first home savings account, topping up my liquid savings as needed then buying more ETF's every 6-12 months. Edit: this is also on top of me sacrificing ~5% pre-tax into superannuation on top of the standard amount your employer has to put in. froglet fucked around with this message at 11:53 on May 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 11:47
|
|
|
froglet posted:A question about financial independence, I've only had a full time job for a few years, should I prioritise saving to buy a flat closer to my work over buying into ETF's or mutual funds? Here in Australia there's a scheme to encourage potential first home buyers to save by giving a 17% match on the first $6000 you put into the account. I started one last year, but I'm wondering if I should continue putting money into it or if I should have my assets more liquid since you can't take the money out once it's in. Just do a bit of math and figure out the break-even point for moving and bike commuting vs staying and car commuting.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 13:15
|
|
|
Even if it isn't break even financially, bad commutes suck and are well worth getting rid of just from a happiness standpoint. I used to have a 1 hour driving commute to/from work and now have a 20 minute transit commute (where I can read/whatever) and the difference is immeasurable. I get home relaxed and happy instead of stressed and angry which is something the fiancee also appreciates. I don't know what it would take for me to consider going back to a bad commute like that again, but a 30% bump in salary would not be enough. Retiring early is cool and all, but retiring a year or two later in order to be happier during the working years is well worth it imo. Note: also consider where else you would get a job if you moved on from your current one. If you'll be moving closer to a population center with lots of applicable jobs, that's even better. If the commute is only better while you work for this specific company, that's less appealing in the long term.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 15:50
|
|
|
I totally agree but the math is fun to do because the break even point is pretty low. Like, a bicycle costs fractions of cents per kilometre, most cars cost around thirty cents. If you can make the bike ride feasible and condition yourself with a cheap daily dose of harden the gently caress up, you'll be in the black pretty quickly in most cases. An example (and I'm terrible at math so this may be incorrect): Say a car costs $0.30/km to run. A bike is practically $0/km. More like $200/year, but yeah. The old commute was 50km away from work but 800 in rent. This costs $30.00/day and about an hour of driving in traffic each way. (If you make $30/hour, that's hypothetically $90 in time and expenses. But that's a whole can of worms of an assumption.) Let's say $30.00/day * 25 days of work a month = $750/month to commute. This isn't a monthly cost but finds itself in insurance, car purchase price, fuel, and maintenance. Cars are expensive. If you move to a new place with twice the rent but a 10km commute you manage by bicycle and get rid of your car completely, you're saving $750/month in delayed commuting costs. In a month you will break even. It's also like a 20 minute bike ride each way, so you save time as well. In a year your decision will have a return of 1125%. Even if you keep driving and move to the same place, you'll get a 225% annual return and break even in less than six months. We can talk index investing all day but lifestyle changes seem incredibly powerful.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 16:18
|
|
|
tuyop posted:I totally agree but the math is fun to do because the break even point is pretty low. Like, a bicycle costs fractions of cents per kilometre, most cars cost around thirty cents. If you can make the bike ride feasible and condition yourself with a cheap daily dose of harden the gently caress up, you'll be in the black pretty quickly in most cases. Just out of curiosity, do you include the extra money you'll likely spend on things like food, shoes, and possibly doctor's visits that bicycling can cause? I agree it's cheaper by a large amount, but there are definitely more costs associated than just the bike and repairs. I read an article that spoke about the cost per mile for running, and it was nearly the same as driving if you suffered any sort of moderate injury (and as a runner, I definitely have had my fair share!). I wish I could remember where I saw it. edit: Tuyop lives in a progressive country with healthcare provided, but for us poor saps in the USA an emergency room visit can cost $1000 once all is said and done even if you have insurance.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 16:21
|
|
|
Nocheez posted:Just out of curiosity, do you include the extra money you'll likely spend on things like food, shoes, and possibly doctor's visits that bicycling can cause? I agree it's cheaper by a large amount, but there are definitely more costs associated than just the bike and repairs. I had a 70km round trip bicycle commute for like six months. That was pretty dramatic and required a bunch more calories, but it basically meant eating like an extra pound of peanuts a day. Maybe like $40 extra in groceries for all the nuts and olive oil I had to drench everything in. I also have a herniated disc in my neck now which may be related to the hours of cycling, but it has cost me nothing except nerve pain so I don't know how to put a cost/km to it. Cycling causes way fewer injuries than running in my experience. It's more like swimming in that. If you're cycling 20km/day none of that poo poo will apply, you're basically talking about a large 2k outlay for a beautiful bike and top of the line gear including touring trailer for large loads (all totally unnecessary but hypothetically why not?) and an extra fistful of trail mix per day in groceries.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 16:28
|
|
|
If you're going to factor in things like that, you'd also need to factor in the savings of not having medical costs in later life from being out of shape and obese. Alternatively, add in the savings of not needing a gym membership to the bike riding.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 17:08
|
|
|
Remember, the estimate for cost per mile on a car includes a ton of hidden costs: regular maintenance, expected repairs, tires, etc. Even once you convert that into the added expenses for a bike, even including expected medical expenses, it's still much cheaper than driving a car. Running is also a bit more prone to repetitive use type injuries than biking seems to be. And as for traumatic injuries, remember that bike wreck statistics include children who have no road/driving training. Also, invest in puncture resistant tires for your bike. They were totally worth it for me. Edit: ^^^ And the time saved by not having to go to the gym. For me, when I weighed that against my increased commute time, I actually gained time each day.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
Folly posted:Remember, the estimate for cost per mile on a car includes a ton of hidden costs: regular maintenance, expected repairs, tires, etc. Even once you convert that into the added expenses for a bike, even including expected medical expenses, it's still much cheaper than driving a car. Running is also a bit more prone to repetitive use type injuries than biking seems to be. And as for traumatic injuries, remember that bike wreck statistics include children who have no road/driving training. And a co2 pump. gently caress pumping for fifteen minutes in the rain while semi drivers coat you in discarded condoms and industrial filth.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 17:18
|
|
|
Nocheez posted:Just out of curiosity, do you include the extra money you'll likely spend on things like food, shoes, and possibly doctor's visits that bicycling can cause? I agree it's cheaper by a large amount, but there are definitely more costs associated than just the bike and repairs.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 17:22
|
|
|
Bicycling? How dangerous! Better buy an SUV.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 17:37
|
|
|
I agree with the premise completely (and in fact do not own a car, and bike commute 5 days a week, year round in Wisconsin). That said, $200/year is a bit low as an average, at least in my experience. Licensing, locks, tires, tubes, cables, occasionally paying a mechanic to fix stuff you can't or don't want to fix. I think that's a good median year, but if you're truly only bike commuting, I'd expect to pay a bit more every few years in larger chunks. Consider salt damage, studded tires and a winter bike for those of us in climates who have to worry about that, or more generally tools, chains, cassettes, cranks, wheels, etc. Also, commuting things like bike panniers and fenders. A lot of those things are one time expenses, can be bought on craigslist, or done without completely. Many more of them can be greatly mitigated or avoided altogether by commuting 3 seasons. Costs can be driven down on maintenance by doing your own work. But if we're suggesting commuting by bike to non-bike-nerds (and again, I heartily do suggest it), we should consider those costs.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 17:46
|
|
|
No Wave posted:Nitpicking an extremely healthy and frugal activity by scapegoating the medical system. Complainypants right here. I thought this was about finances? It's a relevant thing to discuss. I'm training for my first xterra triathlon in July, so I get all the costs of driving AND from sports equipment and injuries. 
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 17:53
|
|
|
Nocheez posted:I thought this was about finances? It's a relevant thing to discuss. A triathlon is my loving white whale. I'm jealous.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 17:54
|
|
|
tuyop posted:A triathlon is my loving white whale. I'm jealous. It's not a full triathlon, it's a 1km swim (starting in a river, then transition to a swim across the whitewater lower lake), a 23km mountain bike ride, then an 8km trail run. Still, finishing in under 3 hours will be tough. The winner last year finished at 2:19:36, but that course wasn't in the river. edit: here's the website http://usnwc.org/xterra-whitewater-triathlon-2/ Nocheez fucked around with this message at 18:37 on May 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 18:30
|
|
|
Nocheez posted:It's not a full triathlon, it's a 1km swim (starting in a river, then transition to a swim across the whitewater lower lake), a 23km mountain bike ride, then an 8km trail run. Still, finishing in under 3 hours will be tough. The winner last year finished at 2:19:36, but that course wasn't in the river. A triathlon is any combination of swim/bike/run, regardless of distance. What KIND of triathlon depends on the distance (sprint, Olympic, half-Iron, full Iron). Your distances are a long sprint
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 19:48
|
|
|
Omne posted:A triathlon is any combination of swim/bike/run, regardless of distance. What KIND of triathlon depends on the distance (sprint, Olympic, half-Iron, full Iron). Your distances are a long sprint Good to know! Also, being on steep trails is going to be a bitch. I ran a half-marathon on the trails a couple Saturdays ago, and my calves kept cramping up near the end. I did a 12-mile mtn bike race the next day with obstacles (some of which required you to carry your bike) and it sucked. I wanted to sleep for 24 hours straight after that weekend.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2014 20:09
|
|
|
Also keep in mind that bicycling is not all or nothing. My husband and I bicycle whenever the weather is not lovely, and drive on the days when it is. Also biking as much as possible will often allow a two car household to downsize to a one car household. Those are real savings, even if they aren't as extreme as "sell all motor vehicles, bicycle everywhere at all times". (which can scare away some prospective drivers) It's also useful to think of every bicycle trip as miles/kilometers not devaluing your car for when it's time to sell. I really like the MMM blog even though it basically ignores systematic problems, but I'm in the core demographic so I just ignore his privilege and take the good advice. We were generally saving 40% of our income, but after reading tons of entries, trying to up it to 65% a month, bike a lot more, look for savings at the grocery store instead of just buying whatever, and respect the 12 dollar cocktails of downtown reykjavik by never buying them and brewing hard cider at home. We're 4 years into a 25 year mortgage, and 65% done paying off what we borrowed. Going to try to stay laser focused to have it gone within 2 years. I do have a question, and since Iceland is rather peculiar, the MMM blog on investment after mortgage is gone doesn't really apply. Iceland has inflation indexed mortgages (historically between 8-13%) unless you really have your credit together, and then can qualify for an ARM style non inflation indexed, that is currently sitting at 6.5% interest (what we have). This makes it extremely beneficial to pay off early, and we poured as much as possible in the first year, often times making 6x and 8x payments each month. So now that we are nearing the end of the mortgage, we have to decide what to do next. Because even best case mortgage rate is 6.5% and often much higher, we were thinking of buying a rental property, and paying off fast in a 3-6 year time frame like we did on this house. (3 being best case, 6 worst case). Renting is much lower risk here, as deadbeat tenants are much much rarer. Assuming such a high mortgage interest rate, does this make it a no brainer to invest in a 2nd property? We are looking at the passive income from after it's paid off (in the short term would roll profit back into the mortgage), a 2nd property we can either sell, or downsize into and sell our current house depending on need. Another thing to keep in mind is that Iceland currently has currency controls, with no end in sight, so any financial device outside of Iceland is off limits for now, including non-icelandic stocks.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2014 20:23
|
|
|
poopinmymouth posted:I really like the MMM blog even though it basically ignores systematic problems, but I'm in the core demographic so I just ignore his privilege and take the good advice.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2014 20:34
|
|
|
If you're limited to investing in Iceland, then it sounds pretty plausible as a means to diversify if nothing else. I can't imagine Iceland's financial instrument market is big enough to allow full diversification, given the size of the population.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2014 20:59
|
|
|
poopinmymouth posted:look for savings at the grocery store instead of just buying whatever This has been touched on in this thread, but it is really important! The price of the groceries you buy can change every week, but often enough what you actually buy doesn't. Keeping tabs on how much apples cost seems silly until you realize that the price per pound can swing as much as a buck based on the season/supply. My wife and I keep a spergy spreadsheet in Google Drive, and we pull it up in the store to compare the prices we see with what we've paid, historically. Knowing that one of the components to our Tuesday meal cost ~$1.25 let us know how good a deal we were getting when we saw it on sale for $0.50, and we bought a six-month supply. That "only" saves $18 over the six months, but it all adds up, and we don't have to worry about buying that until winter starts to come around. Additionally, we noticed that the price of hot dog buns varies wildly by brand, and that the ones placed right next to the hot dogs themselves are often priced $1.50-$2 more than the no-name ones in the bread isle. Getting into a groove and then getting a grasp on what the groceries you buy regularly actually costs allows you to make smarter decisions about what to buy. Saving money in the supermarket becomes a game.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2014 21:50
|
|
|
Be sure to compare amazon to your local stores for non-food items like shampoo, toothpaste, etc. I realize that sounds ridiculous but I've now saved a lot by buying things on amazon and having them shipped to my house than I would have paid buying them locally.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2014 21:52
|
|
|
Inverse Icarus posted:
I remember two quotes from MMM that really drive this home, the first was "a millionaire is made ten bux at a time" and the 2nd even more powerful one is that a single 20 dollar a week habit can actually add literal years onto a working career to hit a savings goal because of compound interest. When I look at how much money my husband and I have saved by cutting our own hair this past 6 years, to imagine the savings from just being slightly more careful at the grocery store is kind of insane.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2014 22:01
|
|
|
Jeffrey posted:Be sure to compare amazon to your local stores for non-food items like shampoo, toothpaste, etc. I realize that sounds ridiculous but I've now saved a lot by buying things on amazon and having them shipped to my house than I would have paid buying them locally. I do this for really tedious things that tend to be overpriced at the grocery store. I'll buy a box of like 12 bars of soap or 8 sticks of deodorant off Amazon for less than the grocery store and then plus I'll have a big supply that will last months. Personal care items especially tend to vary a lot at the grocery store. Some days toothpaste will be dirt loving cheap (like $2), and then the next day the price will be nearly double to like $5. And then a few days later it will be back down to $2.25. Fortunately I live 2 blocks away from a large QFC/Kroger so I'm there almost every day doing small purchases rather than loading up on 2 weeks worth of groceries at a time so I notice the price variations a lot. Guinness fucked around with this message at 22:24 on May 12, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 12, 2014 22:21
|
|
|
How do you financial independence goons calculate cost in time? For instance, I get my groceries delivered, because it saves me at least two hours + recovery time (I have a chronic illness and no car), plus I can take advantage of multibuy deals and bulk purchases I couldn't get if I had to carry the stuff home. Ignoring the potential savings, getting groceries delivered costs £2-5. So getting them myself I could potentially save £50-120 a year. But if I value my time at anything approaching minimum wage, delivery is a huge saving. How do you guys see this sort of thing?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2014 01:34
|
|
|
loki k zen posted:How do you financial independence goons calculate cost in time? I have never seen a grocery delivery service that had regular prices anywhere near what a good grocery store has. You're in the UK though so maybe it's different over there. As far as time value is concerned, unless you would otherwise use that time to either directly make money or to relax when not relaxing would stress you out and prevent you from making more money, or to pursue some other goal worth your time other than "browse the internets and play games", it's a wash.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2014 02:06
|
|
|
loki k zen posted:How do you financial independence goons calculate cost in time?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2014 02:30
|
|
|
Anyone got some frugality tips? Here are some we do I haven't seen mentioned on MMM (cutting your own hair and brewing hard cider are amazing money savers he mentions, both we do and have saved thousands over the years) If you host couchsurfers, ask them to bring liquor from duty free. Depending on the country, you can save between 30-70% of in city prices on booze, and often they will offer it as a gift, saving 100%. We haven't bought hard booze in over 6 months, but have a fully stocked liquor shelf. Learn how to patch a bicycle tire. Tubes are cheapish, but a patch is even cheaper. If you have even a single window, grow herbs. Choose what to grow in order of how often you use them in cooking. It also makes you feel better being in a house with growing things. We have cinnamon basil, red basil, chives, salad greens, radishes, carrots, (these last two are outdoors), and planted a fig, prune, cherry, and two apple trees. Rhubarb is a good one as well, makes great jam. Mix your own protein drinks. Cheapest serving of 20g I can find here in Iceland is about a dollar for premixed boxes (they are locally made, so end up being cheaper than the imported powder stuff). I buy Skyr (use plain yogurt as well) and skim milk and just blend enough for 20 grams. 2/3 as much per serving, and that can really add up per week especially if there are two of you drinking after each workout. The thing two things that have saved us the most money toward financial independence are renting out our guesthouse and paying off our mortgage early. When we bought this house, the detached garage was a home office. I spent around 4,000 dollars renovating it into a small studio (bonus learned about plumbing, carpentry, drywall, framing, pouring concrete, installing kitchens) and have since made about 40,000 dollars in 4 years, first renting on airbnb, and now renting to a longer term tenant for around 600 dollars a month (which thanks to paying down the principle aggressively, is now more than the mortgage payments). We are essentially living rent free at this point. poopinmymouth fucked around with this message at 18:05 on May 13, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2014 18:01
|
|
|
Most of mine are food related, so they may not translate to other countries. 1) Make your own drat bread. (MMM mentions this one.) Buy a bread maker on craigslist for $20. Here's a Recipe: 1 cup water 2 teaspoons of yeast 2 tablespoons of sugar 1/4 cup vegetable oil 3 cups flour 1 teaspoon of salt I use the bread machine to make the dough, then I bake it in a pan for 30 minutes at 350F. I only do this to make it prettier. The worst part is stopping yourself from eating half of the loaf when it's still warm. If you buy your yeast in bulk (amazon), then this costs about $0.30-$.50 a loaf. Bread from the store has more additives and costs about $2 a loaf. *Note: This also applies to pancakes. Make your own drat pancakes. Bisquick saves you very little effort but costs a fair bit more than the stuff that it's made of. 2) Bones make broth Roast a whole chicken and eat it with veggies. Then boil the carcass and leftover meat into broth and make a chicken based soup. (I prefer dumplings.) Roast a ham and eat it with veggies. Then boil the bones and leftover fat to make broth for bean soup. 3) Use staples Find sides you can make with beans, flour, rice, and corn. They're cheap pretty much everywhere, compared to other foods. They vary regionally with relation to each other, though. There should be 2 or 3 meals you prepare every week that are maximized for savings and nutrition. You'll buy these items every week, so you'll be able to recognize immediately when the grocery store jacks with your prices. It will save you time too, because of the routine you'll be able to prepare these meals very quickly and with less mess. You still get to be creative with dinner on the other 2 or 3 nights.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2014 18:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 12:11 |
|
|
This may not be a popular one, but not drinking alcohol has saved me so much money. I didn't exactly have a choice about that, but my fiance has found that living with me it's really easy to just not drink at home except on special occasions (house party, occasional beer and pizza night) because nobody else is and it has saved him a huge amount of money too.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2014 19:47
|
|