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I haven't watched the next episode yet but it seems to me that the problem Malcolm's got now is that there's no obvious threats to target in the Favourites so none of them have a real reason to flip. At least if they'd left Philip they might have been able to target him with the 'huge jerk' argument. Also I forgot to mention but Corinne was really stupid to go against Philip's split vote plan. If she'd just let SRU split their vote then her six woulda been enough to vote him out.
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May 13, 2014 22:21
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Watched Russell first two seasons. How the hell are people butthurt so bad they can't recognize they got absolutely and completely dominated. Outwit, outlast, outplay. More like sunbathe and make friends.
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May 13, 2014 23:25
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nexous posted:Watched Russell first two seasons. How the hell are people butthurt so bad they can't recognize they got absolutely and completely dominated. Outwit, outlast, outplay. More like sunbathe and make friends. Agreed, it was embarrassing to watch Russell throw hissy fits at the reunions because he couldn't stand the thought that he got beat by girls. Twice.
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May 13, 2014 23:35
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nexous posted:Watched Russell first two seasons. How the hell are people butthurt so bad they can't recognize they got absolutely and completely dominated. Outwit, outlast, outplay. More like sunbathe and make friends. This conversation comes up all the time and it's pretty played out, but the basic gist is that jury management has always been and always will be a part of the game and you'd be a fool to ignore it. Alternatively 
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May 13, 2014 23:36
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nexous posted:Watched Russell first two seasons. How the hell are people butthurt so bad they can't recognize they got absolutely and completely dominated. Outwit, outlast, outplay. More like sunbathe and make friends. Hmmm *strokes goonbeard* why your right I never thought of that before
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May 13, 2014 23:38
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E PLURIBUS ANUS posted:Hmmm *strokes goonbeard* why your right I never thought of that before Ah yes why I never thought I ever would have been so late to watching survivor.  people like people reacting to watching old seasons and it's new to me. But I love community so I forgive you. I absolutely get jury management and why it's important. I just wish it wasn't so important. It disproportionally rewards nice people who do nothing. If it was convincing the last person to quit. Russel. If it's an impartially jury. Russel. You simply can't argue that he's been one of the best manipulative players ever.
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May 13, 2014 23:44
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May 13, 2014 23:44
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nexous posted:Ah yes why I never thought I ever would have been so late to watching survivor. If he can't manipulate the jury then he's not as good as you think he is Although I agree he's one of the better manipulative players the show has had Also it doesn't disproportionately reward nice people who do nothing as seen by the winners of the last 5-6 seasons
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May 13, 2014 23:47
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E PLURIBUS ANUS posted:If he can't manipulate the jury then he's not as good as you think he is Ok I'll concede on that point. Edit. And sorry for rehashing things that have been brought up so often. But it is new to me v:)v
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May 13, 2014 23:47
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Russell's problem is that he's a jerk. If he'd made the same strategic moves while being generally a decent guy he woulda won. The social game is just as important as the strategic game, and he's heavily lacking in that area.
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May 13, 2014 23:49
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I think it's interesting that Russell has two spiritual successors in this season. First there's Tony, with his overplaying of the game and insane luck with hidden immunity idols. And then there's J'tia, who brings that special Hantz bat-shittedness and sociopathy.
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May 13, 2014 23:50
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Rarity posted:Russell's problem is that he's a jerk. If he'd made the same strategic moves while being generally a decent guy he woulda won. This. He made a bunch of great moves, but he was also a complete rear end while doing it. He went out of his way in a lot of cases to be an rear end when it wasn't necessary. He didn't consider that he was going to need these people, which is a huge mistake in his game both times he played.
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May 13, 2014 23:51
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More importantly he overplayed when it wasn't necessary and reveled in taking "big moves" when he didn't need to, which made great television but boy oh boy was it in some cases really, really dumb
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May 13, 2014 23:53
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I could argue that overplaying coincides with actually ENJOYing the game. When everyone's huddled up in the rain crying Russels outside the shelter having a great time. Tony seems to genuinely enjoy the game. Part of the reason I bought hulu and started watching old eps. The only dbag moves he made the first season is emptying the canteens and burning that guys socks. The burning of the socks is unforgivable after you see his feet later on. Not sure why the producers allowed that.
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May 13, 2014 23:54
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Russel was really really fun to watch. I can forgive him most anything just based on that tbh.
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May 13, 2014 23:54
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Samoa was a lovely edit designed to create surprise and controversy. Heroes vs. Villains is a better season even though it's painfully obvious by the end to anyone who hasn't lost their mind from 80 days on Survivor. "I need to get rid of Jerri so she'll vote for me." 
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May 13, 2014 23:56
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I feel like Tony is enjoying the game 150 to 200% more than Russell ever did.
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May 13, 2014 23:58
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The big reason Malcolm's double idol plan backfired was Phillip agreeing to fall on his sword and telling everyone to stick to their votes. That's the real reason the idols ended up getting played, and in Eddie's case it was played correctly. If, instead, Malcolm said that the three amigos were all voting for someone far more desperate to stay in the game, say Andrea or Cochran, there would have been far more chaos and the target may have lead a coup to get out someone like Sherri instead and the idols could have been saved. Even better, declare that the three amigos were splitting their votes between Andrea, Cochran, and Brenda, and force those three start lobbying for votes from their own alliance. In that case, even if you feel you need to play the idols to be safe, you guarantee the alliance has to turn on each other on the re-vote.
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May 13, 2014 23:58
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Vernacular posted:Some actual contenders for "dumbest and most terrible move in Survivor history": -JT's move was high risk high reward and I credit that move to Russell manipulating him. Knowing what we know it was completely idiotic but JT didn't have that knowledge so from his perspective it made enough sense. If JT's guess was right we'd have called it one of the greatest strategic moves ever -Erik's Micronesia move is indefensible though -I guess One World but that's a terrible season full of morons anyways -that move totally worked and made sense for Ozzys game though, considering he's always been physically strong but a strategic moron, plus it helped solidify his own alliance, if anything that was a good move -Throwing is always terrible yeah
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May 14, 2014 00:00
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Poque posted:I feel like Tony is enjoying the game 150 to 200% more than Russell ever did. I agree. But if Tonys 200% and Russel is 125% then everyone else is at 0-75. I was a spencer fan from the get go. But Tonys unrivaled fun and #spysjack has won me over
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May 14, 2014 00:00
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Poque posted:I feel like Tony is enjoying the game 150 to 200% more than Russell ever did. I see what you did there. Russell dominated his first season and might have won if he hadn't spent so much time gloating. He was a huge douche and his tears at the finale were sweet, sweet nectar.
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May 14, 2014 00:12
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Ahh to think back to the end of Samoa when "Russell got robbed, gently caress these bitter juries!" was a legitimate argument. Then Heroes vs. Villains happened and it exposed that the flaw was with Russell's gameplay, not with the game itself and then Redemption Island happened and well we know what happened there. P.S. the end of Samoa/start of Heroes vs. Villains discussion threads here was by far the most polarized and ugly I've ever seen the Survivor community.
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May 14, 2014 00:26
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I think even if you hate Russell and his gameplay, you can't deny that he loves the game. He just wants to play the game of Survivor. I think Tony is what Russell looks like without all the malice and mean spiritedness. Also they should really not let people play in back to back seasons. By the end of one game you are sick and malnourished and mentally broken. I can't imagine starting again immediately afterwards.
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May 14, 2014 00:47
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mancalamania posted:Even better, declare that the three amigos were splitting their votes between Andrea, Cochran, and Brenda, and force those three start lobbying for votes from their own alliance. In that case, even if you feel you need to play the idols to be safe, you guarantee the alliance has to turn on each other on the re-vote. This was absolutely the right play. If all Three Amigos target the same person, the majority alliance's best (and only!) play is to flush out those two idols and let that one person get voted out. Maybe the one person doesn't like it, but they're gone, and their one vote can't change the outcome. If the Three Amigos split their vote three ways, then you have three people who face a very real incentive to defect on the first vote. It might not save the idol, but it forces Cochran to choose between Andrea and Brenda, Andrea to choose between Cochran and Brenda, and Brenda to choose between Andrea and Cochran. You get rid of one of those three, and have opened up a wedge in the majority to try to exploit next vote.
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May 14, 2014 02:45
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E PLURIBUS ANUS posted:-JT's move was high risk high reward and I credit that move to Russell manipulating him. Knowing what we know it was completely idiotic but JT didn't have that knowledge so from his perspective it made enough sense. If JT's guess was right we'd have called it one of the greatest strategic moves ever I've felt this way for a long time but I never had the words to explain it, because I'm stupid. A lot of this goes on too, we see a lot of moves as dumb on TV but each hour episode is 3 days on the island so there's a lot of poo poo going down that we can't/won't see so... Also with Russel, yes a lot of his assholiness was during confessionals, but his negotiating to individuals was always aggressive and threatening, so he's a big dummy.
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May 14, 2014 02:53
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Pinterest Mom posted:This was absolutely the right play. If all Three Amigos target the same person, the majority alliance's best (and only!) play is to flush out those two idols and let that one person get voted out. Maybe the one person doesn't like it, but they're gone, and their one vote can't change the outcome. I figured the best thing to do was just say nothing about how they're voting. That will make people way more likely to panic.
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May 14, 2014 02:59
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mancalamania posted:The big reason Malcolm's double idol plan backfired was Phillip agreeing to fall on his sword and telling everyone to stick to their votes. That's the real reason the idols ended up getting played, and in Eddie's case it was played correctly. Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 03:32 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 03:28
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nexous posted:Watched Russell first two seasons. How the hell are people butthurt so bad they can't recognize they got absolutely and completely dominated. Outwit, outlast, outplay. More like sunbathe and make friends.
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May 14, 2014 03:29
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I missed maybe 4-5 of the middle seasons, so I figured I'd go back and watch some of them. I'm 4 episodes in to Exile Island and I have to say the Casaya tribe is already one of my favorite tribes ever. Maybe even my favorite. They're so dysfunctional it's hilarious and yet they're still winning all of the challenges. It's great how everyone in the majority alliance hates each other.
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May 14, 2014 04:06
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I wonder how different Russel's second season would have played out if he had a few seasons in between to go the the survivor alumni meetups and forge quasi-relationships (if that pyscho is even capable of forming real human bonds). And also had the other survivors been able to see his first play through the game. To them it may have seemed that he was dragged along far more than he actually was.
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May 14, 2014 04:11
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I don't know if this is  but the Samoa season still strikes me as more bitter jury than Russell being an rear end in a top hat. Erik was cheering on everything and then gave the dumbest speech at the last tribal.Russell shouldn't have won HvV, Parvati should've. Sandra just happened to be IRL buds with everyone beforehand 
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May 14, 2014 04:17
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The Landstander posted:I don't know if this is If you didn't win Survivor, then you shouldn't have won Survivor. It's your job to get to the end while being on the best terms with the jury. That's how it works.
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May 14, 2014 04:28
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Yeah it's one of the great tragedies in Survivor history that Parvati doesn't get the credit she deserves for her HvV game. It was a better game than her winning Micronesia performance and arguably the most impressive game ever played. The only game even in the ballpark in my mind was Dr Will's ridiculous run in Big Brother All Stars.
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May 14, 2014 04:29
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BGrifter posted:Yeah it's one of the great tragedies in Survivor history that Parvati doesn't get the credit she deserves for her HvV game. It was a better game than her winning Micronesia performance and arguably the most impressive game ever played. Oh for gently caress's sake. No, it wasn't. Parvati could not control Russell; Russell's overarching strategy steered her machinations. Russell voted out her strongest ally from underneath her. Post-merge in Micronesia, there was not a point post-merge where she wasn't in absolute and total control.
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May 14, 2014 04:39
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Propaganda Machine posted:Oh for gently caress's sake. No, it wasn't. The target she had on her back after that Micronesia win was enormous. The fact she managed to survive on a beach full of All-Stars who all knew she was the most dangerous player out there is utterly insane. We've never seen anything like it on Survivor. Listening to them repeatedly talk about how insanely dangerous Parvati is yet being unable to pull the trigger on stopping her was mindboggling to watch.
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May 14, 2014 04:49
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BGrifter posted:The target she had on her back after that Micronesia win was enormous. The fact she managed to survive on a beach full of All-Stars who all knew she was the most dangerous player out there is utterly insane. We've never seen anything like it on Survivor. I'd vote that honor to Boston Rob on his 4th time playing was more impressive. Either for the fact that he survived, or the casting agents could find that many people to be so hopelessly loving clueless to let it happen, either way
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May 14, 2014 05:08
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maniacripper posted:I'd vote that honor to Boston Rob on his 4th time playing was more impressive. Either for the fact that he survived, or the casting agents could find that many people to be so hopelessly loving clueless to let it happen, either way What made Parvati's game so impressive was it happened against a pretty stacked field of all-stars who all knew better. Boston Rob put on a clinic against newbies, but Parvati was running circles around winners and top players who had all seen Micronesia. I'm not convinced half the cast of Redemption Island saw All-Stars.
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May 14, 2014 05:16
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Parvati also had the biggest target on her back going into Micronesia. She got insanely lucky that Fairplay ragequit, because otherwise she was going to be the first boot. In HvV, Randy was the most logical first boot by far, and by that time she, Russell and Danielle were tight enough to get the ball rolling. Also keep in mind that it's been widely attested that Lynne Spillman clued her into Russell pre-game.
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May 14, 2014 07:06
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Is Boston Rob still the only returning player whose only win was on a season with no other returning players (Russell got removed by his own tribe so early, that he never really came into play)?
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May 14, 2014 09:32
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Is Boston Rob still the only returning player whose only win was on a season with no other returning players (Russell got removed by his own tribe so early, that he never really came into play)? Yes. But the seasons concept was doomed from the start. There was no way that Russel had a chance in that enviroment with how he was portrayed and the RI twist made it even worse.
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May 14, 2014 10:22
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