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Personally I really enjoyed the design of the Rotten. I really love the Castlevania boss Legion, and the Rotten was basically that but even more awful. It moving by having a bunch of dudes' hands drag it along was also really spooky, since it kind of kept the creepy-crawly feeling that you get from small spider-y enemies that usually goes away when something is just a bigger version of that.
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May 15, 2014 07:17
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Internet Kraken posted:I call bullshit on this. No way anyone could look at Demon of Song and think it was completely boring. i felt.....jovial laughter, bubbling up from deep inside, looking at him. they're all (1 exception) the same enemy, in terms of how they fight, so there is also no feeling of apprehension as to what an enemy can potentially do to kill you, after a while.
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May 15, 2014 07:18
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Anyone know what the poise damage is on bare fists + Vanquisher's Seal?
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May 15, 2014 07:18
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Heavy Lobster posted:Personally I really enjoyed the design of the Rotten. I really love the Castlevania boss Legion, and the Rotten was basically that but even more awful. It moving by having a bunch of dudes' hands drag it along was also really spooky, since it kind of kept the creepy-crawly feeling that you get from small spider-y enemies that usually goes away when something is just a bigger version of that. Rotten is basically the Prisoner Horde crossed with Nito.
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May 15, 2014 07:19
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Heavy Lobster posted:Personally I really enjoyed the design of the Rotten. I really love the Castlevania boss Legion, and the Rotten was basically that but even more awful. It moving by having a bunch of dudes' hands drag it along was also really spooky, since it kind of kept the creepy-crawly feeling that you get from small spider-y enemies that usually goes away when something is just a bigger version of that. Yeah the dude has fingers made out of arms and poo poo, it's loving cool. But it's another trivial boss fight.  Cool dark attacks toward the end though!
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May 15, 2014 07:20
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Heavy Lobster posted:Personally I really enjoyed the design of the Rotten. I really love the Castlevania boss Legion, and the Rotten was basically that but even more awful. It moving by having a bunch of dudes' hands drag it along was also really spooky, since it kind of kept the creepy-crawly feeling that you get from small spider-y enemies that usually goes away when something is just a bigger version of that. I feel like the Rotten as a boss would've benefited from the cover of darkness (for some reason the fire pits are lit already), it would make you focus on him and try to make out the horrific details of it's design as well as trying to avoid his attacks. Maybe you could've had some of the poison statues along the outside of the arena shoot at you if you get too far away from the middle of the arena forcing you to get close to it to be effective or get poisoned. TexMexFoodbaby fucked around with this message at 07:24 on May 15, 2014 |
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May 15, 2014 07:21
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He's just another "big guy with sword" but I actually really enjoyed the Mirror Knight.
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May 15, 2014 07:22
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GulagDolls posted:i felt.....jovial laughter, bubbling up from deep inside, looking at him. What kind of enemies in the Souls games have made you flip out a little then? Not to single you out, I just can't pin down what you like or not without any specific examples and I feel like I'm speaking too broadly about the subject. StashAugustine posted:He's just another "big guy with sword" but I actually really enjoyed the Mirror Knight. The mirror knight benefits from being a gorgeous enemy in a gorgeous arena, and honestly even if he was a bit plain mechanically (unless you get a player summon), the flavor more than makes up for the experience to me.
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May 15, 2014 07:23
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FauxGateau posted:I feel like the Rotten as a boss would've benefited from the cover of darkness (for some reason the fire pits are lit already), it would make you focus on him and try to make out the horrific details of it's design as well as trying to avoid his attacks. But that would have required them to actually use the torch/light gimmick they came up with instead of just half-heartedly suggesting it for one zone before forgetting the entire mechanic. Obviously the casual base couldn't cope with such a demanding mechanic, and they would cry out in anguish like Manatee Canon set upon by a hundred invaders.
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May 15, 2014 07:25
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i feel that the lighting in the rotten room really hurts him, yeah. i also don't like this potentially horrific enemy just attacks you with a big cleaver. like, its a very potent idea, a creature made out of corpses, still living (!!!!!!) but then he just hits you with a sword and barfs on you.
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May 15, 2014 07:25
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Chomp8645 posted:But that would have required them to actually use the torch/light gimmick they came up with instead of just half-heartedly suggesting it for like one single zone. Obviously the casual base couldn't cope with such a demanding mechanic, and they would cry out in anguish like Manatee Canon set upon by a hundred invaders. TBH if the original idea was to turn huge chunks of the game into the tomb of giants until you went around lighting torches I'm glad they shitcanned it. But the rotten definitely would've benefited from darkness.
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May 15, 2014 07:27
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FauxGateau posted:I feel like the Rotten as a boss would've benefited from the cover of darkness Not really, no.
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May 15, 2014 07:27
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Bobnumerotres posted:TBH if the original idea was to turn huge chunks of the game into the tomb of giants until you went around lighting torches I'm glad they shitcanned it. Fair enough. I'm not necessarily saying that would have been a good idea. It's just strange they went through all the trouble to include the dark/light mechanic (and showed it off in the demos) only for it to be a completely forgettable feature in the finished game. If they didn't want to make light sources a serious part of the game they never should have bothered in the first place. The torches in Dark Souls 2 are basically the epitome of "much ado about nothing".
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May 15, 2014 07:29
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Chomp8645 posted:But that would have required them to actually use the torch/light gimmick they came up with instead of just half-heartedly suggesting it for one zone before forgetting the entire mechanic. Obviously the casual base couldn't cope with such a demanding mechanic, and they would cry out in anguish like Manatee Canon set upon by a hundred invaders. I'm torn, because I'm glad we can all agree that the torch was pretty half-assed, but also this: Bobnumerotres posted:TBH if the original idea was to turn huge chunks of the game into the tomb of giants until you went around lighting torches I'm glad they shitcanned it. I run in to the same problem when I download Skyrim lighting mods. I get dark-dark nights and darker dungeons mods because I like the feeling of that kind of atmosphere, but then I actually try to play the game and realize that unless I have nightvision (which I mean, I usually do because of Khajiit master race) it's an enormous pain in the rear end because the mechanical focus is on killing stuff and getting loot and not fighting the darkness. Atmosphere in action games can't as easily be a part of the mechanics like they can in horror games, but a lot of people think game design shorthand of "dark=scary" works everywhere.
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May 15, 2014 07:30
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They wanted to but realized it wouldn't work as they wanted on the ps3/360 so they dialed it back.
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May 15, 2014 07:31
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:Not really, no. But why Fair Bear Maiden? Surely the fight would have had something going for it then instead of being a pile of dudes coming at you in a nicely lit room. It feels like it was almost designed with that in mind. In fact I bet this was almost certainly the case. Especially considering the fact that the Gutter is one stage where the torch is mildly useful. So maybe at some point they envisioned you fighting Manito in the dark? I mean it kinda makes sense from a design standpoint.
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May 15, 2014 07:33
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Mirror Knight would be great if his gimmick worked. The entire reason he's relatively slow and cumbersome for a big midgame encounter is because he's balanced around the idea of enemy players being summoned, which can be way more threatning than the NPCs. However, the summoning system for him is beyond broken so it doesn't ever work out. On the subject of the Rotten, I'm pretty sure his room being fully lit was thematic choice. He's not trying to hid in the cover of darkness. He's this big hideous abomination, but not one that lurks in the shadows. His horror is magnified when he's in full view and you can see every inch of his body twitching and writhing. Though I find it pretty funny that one of the corpses looks like its just riding on his shoulder, having a grand old time. GulagDolls posted:i feel that the lighting in the rotten room really hurts him, yeah. He's meant to resemble Adjudicator which is why he's got the cleaver. I don't really know what you expect him to do? He doesn't just use the cleaver after all. He tries to pummel you with his fists, will pick you and twist your body like a rag, etc. Rotten is kind of weird though in that he moves pretty fast for a creature you'd think would be rather sluggish. That caught me off guard at first. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 07:38 on May 15, 2014 |
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May 15, 2014 07:33
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Internet Kraken posted:Mirror Knight would be great if his gimmick worked. The entire reason he's relatively slow and cumbersome for a big midgame encounter is because he's balanced around the idea of enemy players being summoned, which can be way more threatning than the NPCs. However, the summoning system for him is beyond broken so it doesn't ever work out. Aren't the player summons for him also limited to NG+ for some reason?
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May 15, 2014 07:35
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If it weren't for the fact that torches weren't unlimited, I'd have run around the whole game with one in my offhand instead of a shield just to watch the light flicker everywhere. And maybe attempt to finish off bosses with it. It also sucks that sconces don't stay lit when you go up a new game difficulty level. Yeah, it might make the torch redundant, but on the other hand now I don't even want to bother with the torch again because I know the next time I actually visit those areas, they're going to be unlit the next run through the game anyway.
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May 15, 2014 07:36
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hahaha the Gyrm Greataxe gives you the same powerstance moves as a straight sword if you use it in your right hand. Straight sword speed but with the damage of a pair of greataxes.
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May 15, 2014 07:36
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FauxGateau posted:But why Fair Bear Maiden? Surely the fight would have had something going for it then instead of being a pile of dudes coming at you in a nicely lit room. It feels like it was almost designed with that in mind. In fact I bet this was almost certainly the case. Especially considering the fact that the Gutter is one stage where the torch is mildly useful. So maybe at some point they envisioned you fighting Manito in the dark? I mean it kinda makes sense from a design standpoint. We're talking about a huge lumbering guy with a large (but mostly unused) moveset. While at least Lost Sinner can leap away and break lock-on, Rotten would be fought the exact same way. Only difference I can see is, if you replace the fire pools with something like, say, poison pools, it'd be more difficult to avoid them, but they never were a big threat in the first place. EDIT: Speaking of torch sconces, I really wish at least one area would reward you for lighting them all. Come on, just have something goofy happen for me, FROM.
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May 15, 2014 07:37
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Heavy Lobster posted:I run in to the same problem when I download Skyrim lighting mods. I get dark-dark nights and darker dungeons mods because I like the feeling of that kind of atmosphere, but then I actually try to play the game and realize that unless I have nightvision (which I mean, I usually do because of Khajiit master race) it's an enormous pain in the rear end because the mechanical focus is on killing stuff and getting loot and not fighting the darkness. Atmosphere in action games can't as easily be a part of the mechanics like they can in horror games, but a lot of people think game design shorthand of "dark=scary" works everywhere. This is why I roll my eyes every loving time I see people bloo bloo about the lighting or WHY ISN'T THIS GAME DARKER or show screens of SUPERDARKFX mods that make the game into black pea soup. Not being able to see poo poo anywhere you go might be "atmospheric", but it's loving terrible for actual gameplay in a game where you're meant to fight poo poo all the time. I loving 100% guarantee you that if they had kept the Dark As poo poo lighting method and mandated that you carry a torch everywhere to see poo poo then you'd have a billion complaints about how the game is loving bullshit because you can't ever use a shield and how you keep getting attacked by poo poo coming out of the darkness.
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May 15, 2014 07:37
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Internet Kraken posted:Mirror Knight would be great if his gimmick worked. The entire reason he's relatively slow and cumbersome for a big midgame encounter is because he's balanced around the idea of enemy players being summoned, which can be way more threatning than the NPCs. However, the summoning system for him is beyond broken so it doesn't ever work out. The obvious solution would have been more the Mirror Knight to only summon if he has an actual player ready to go because the NPCs are worthless and serve little purpose other than giving everyone free attacks on the boss. If no player is ready, then don't loving bother.
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May 15, 2014 07:37
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dis astranagant posted:hahaha the Gyrm Greataxe gives you the same powerstance moves as a straight sword if you use it in your right hand. Straight sword speed but with the damage of a pair of greataxes. That's cause it's the greataxe powerstance too; most greataxes have it. Most commonly you'll see people using bandit greataxe with great club/greatsword since those weapons have more damage and reach.
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May 15, 2014 07:39
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Chomp8645 posted:Fair enough. I'm not necessarily saying that would have been a good idea. It's just strange they went through all the trouble to include the dark/light mechanic (and showed it off in the demos) only for it to be a completely forgettable feature in the finished game. If they didn't want to make light sources a serious part of the game they never should have bothered in the first place. The torches in Dark Souls 2 are basically the epitome of "much ado about nothing". Well they were clearly pretty deep in development with the torch stuff before someone said "gently caress it just make every area normal-looking." There are sconces everywhere on every level, pharros locks that light up whole areas in cool ways that clearly took a while to design, etc. at that point they couldn't just delete it all. Nothing quite like that  effect when you use one of those mega torches though, especially the one in Undead Crypt. Just like...okay?? Fire good???
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May 15, 2014 07:39
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Genocyber posted:That's cause it's the greataxe powerstance too; most greataxes have it. Most commonly you'll see people using bandit greataxe with great club/greatsword since those weapons have more damage and reach. Odd, both of the other great axes I have don't do that, they do this over the shoulder swing that mimics their r1
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May 15, 2014 07:41
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Chomp8645 posted:The obvious solution would have been more the Mirror Knight to only summon if he has an actual player ready to go because the NPCs are worthless and serve little purpose other than giving everyone free attacks on the boss. If no player is ready, then don't loving bother. Well, it'd be a shame if he didn't summon ever just because the summon animation looks great. Seeing the black phantom pound on the mirror and then crash out was really cool the first time I saw it. They could of made the NPCs more threatening, or better yet having the damage Mirror Knight takes during the summon be reduced even more. There's really no reason for him to take so much damage when the summoning is so worthless 99% of the time.
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May 15, 2014 07:45
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Gonna be entirely honest basilisks freak me the gently caress out.
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May 15, 2014 07:50
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Cat Army 
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Kanos posted:This is why I roll my eyes every loving time I see people bloo bloo about the lighting or WHY ISN'T THIS GAME DARKER or show screens of SUPERDARKFX mods that make the game into black pea soup. Not being able to see poo poo anywhere you go might be "atmospheric", but it's loving terrible for actual gameplay in a game where you're meant to fight poo poo all the time. I loving 100% guarantee you that if they had kept the Dark As poo poo lighting method and mandated that you carry a torch everywhere to see poo poo then you'd have a billion complaints about how the game is loving bullshit because you can't ever use a shield and how you keep getting attacked by poo poo coming out of the darkness. Not if you could powerstance torches!  But yeah, the same kind of outrage happened when Diablo 3 screenshots were first being released. What do you mean theres no light radius anymore?? Here, let me show you how this game should really look, *posts edits where you can't distinguish enemies from the background, includes enemies that will attack you from off-"screen"*. I even remember Blizzard coming out and saying that a huge part of why they designed the game as they did was that so, in a game all about killing tons of dangerous things as fast as possible, you could actually see those things and not have a bunch of bullshit deaths or miss important enemy tells, but people still shat themselves over how it ruined Diablo.
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May 15, 2014 07:51
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The Iron Rose posted:Gonna be entirely honest basilisks freak me the gently caress out. Did you notice their eyes aren't what they seem? 
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May 15, 2014 07:51
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:Did you notice their eyes aren't what they seem? oh sweet jesus what the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck is that
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May 15, 2014 07:54
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What are the minimum stats to get everything from every vendor? For example the one hexer guy needs 20 int/20 fai.
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May 15, 2014 07:55
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DID SOMEONE SAY MIRROR KNIGHT? SORRY I COULDN'T HEAR YOU BECAUSE WHEN I FOUGHT HIM HE DEAFENED ME WITH HIS LIGHTNING ATTACK EVEN THOUGHT I HAD THE GAME VOLUME WAY DOWN.
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May 15, 2014 07:55
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Lalus posted:Put your may-or-may-not-help-drops gear on and sit at the second bonfire. Quit the game. Copy your save file somewhere. Go kill the painting guy and if he doesn't drop the scimitar, quit the game and paste the early save. Try again. I'm assuming thats what most people do when farming for the weird stuff. ... WHAT
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May 15, 2014 07:56
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Lalus posted:Put your may-or-may-not-help-drops gear on and sit at the second bonfire. Quit the game. Copy your save file somewhere. Go kill the painting guy and if he doesn't drop the scimitar, quit the game and paste the early save. Try again. I'm assuming thats what most people do when farming for the weird stuff. oh my god
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May 15, 2014 07:56
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I killed Flexile Sentry first try last night and I thought it was a pretty cool design (arena as well). Easy as gently caress, probably due to my brand new Lightning Spears! Lucatiel ran off a walkway into the water chasing some fool and couldn't get back up so I left her behind. I'm pretty sure she survived, as there was nobody left to kill her, so I'm guessing it counts as having summoned her for the fight? e: Seriously, it looked super crazy but it was too slow flipping about. electrohead fucked around with this message at 08:00 on May 15, 2014 |
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May 15, 2014 07:58
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Heavy Lobster posted:Not if you could powerstance torches! Yeah but that's a game where you're usually killing hordes of guys. So seeing and being able to distinguish enemies makes sense. In the Souls series you're usually killing a group or one to two guys. But the difference is that the Souls games encourage you to think about engagement with deliberation. Discretion is not a hindrance in this series. It's about learning. And sometimes the learning is not to go running off into the darkness or to use caution. So the comparison isn't really warranted, because the Souls games could use that for atmosphere and enemy encounters rather than obfuscating for no reason. All I'm saying is that you could argue for a reason better than Diablo 3.
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May 15, 2014 07:59
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Turning the torches into an optional thing where it opened up secret areas and a secret boss if you lit them all would have been enough. As of now it feels like something from an old RPG where they made something, almost finished it then had to cut it but left it in the game.
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May 15, 2014 08:02
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:Did you notice their eyes aren't what they seem? Postin cause if I have to have nightmares so does everyone else. 
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May 15, 2014 08:06
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I think it's a shame about the Mirror Knight... when I learned (via the interwebs) how his little phantom summoning schtick worked, I thought that sounded really clever and cool. But in practice, it doesn't work out at all since it's only one place in the game and getting summoned to that fight is annoying and boring and requires hanging out in a place you don't want to be. And it's a shame, because like I said, the concept is really creative and flavorful.
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May 15, 2014 08:07
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