|
planedriver posted:What do you guys generally do when your game freezes (no prompt but the timer keeps ticking)? I had the semi-finals pretty much locked down but then the game froze (or my opponent just afk-ragequit). Thought "Report bugged game" would give some options but it just immediately conceded the game The game auto-cedes the opponent if they do nothing for five minutes, so you just had to wait a bit.
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 04:52
|
|
. Are we supposed to just wait it out?
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 11:43 |
|
|
BenRGamer posted:The game auto-cedes the opponent if they do nothing for five minutes, so you just had to wait a bit. I wasn't sure if it was them or me though... Also it was game 3 so I really didn't want to risk a concede on my part Asked the chat and it seems I need to open a ticket for help? How do I do that?
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 04:55
|
|
|
Karnegal posted:2.) A lot of people who backed Hex ALSO play Magic. It may just be my perception, but gamers as a whole get pretty angry about corperate douchebaggery. While it might be hard to say "gently caress you" to EA games since they have such a huge market share in terms of the % of AAA games that are released. WotC is really represents only a small portion of the hobbyist games market in terms of indiivudal games (they have a large portion of the revenue from said market). I can very easily see myself not buying any more products from WotC. There are a lot of other companies in the board and card games market that I can give my money to. I emailed them and politely told them I would never buy any of their products again. I realize that's probably going to do little, but trying to stifle competition by financially exhausting Cryptozoic through the court system is some serious bullshit. I've been playing Magic casually since Ice Age and while I enjoy it, I also have enjoyed probably 10 other TCG's. I don't have to give my money to the bully of TCG's if I don't want to.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 04:56
|
|
|
I'm 100% with Karnegal on this one, the analysis is spot-on. WtC is throwing a super bullshit legal attack at CZE to slow down Hex or bankrupt CZE. CZE had to be ready for this. I hope they hit Hasbro where it hurts.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 05:03
|
|
|
Ultra mixed feelings. Feel like they asked for it copying magic this blatantly. OTOH, gently caress Hasbro. MTGO has been poo poo since its inception and has never gotten better. The reason people backed Hex is because they want a real CCG to play online. The reason HS/HEX/Solforge/Infinity Wars are gaining any traction is because MTGO is a disgrace. I dont understand how Hasbro can afford to throw this money at lawyers instead of software engineers. I've been enjoying my time with Hex, but if Hex was a paper card game I would of bought 1 theme deck then went straight back to playing Magic. I think most people jumping to Hex from MTG are doing so because of how bad MTGO is. All of the sweet features in Hex could of been added to MTGO 5 years ago. Hex is not replacing MTG for me, just MTGO. Except it's not even replacing MTGO, I stopped playing that years ago. Hope Crypto wins. The more options in the online CCG market, the better.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 06:09
|
|
|
gently caress the lawsuit, Hasbro is for Haters. I just won my first tournament ever after losing like four straight in the first round. Biggest rush I've had in a video game in years.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 06:51
|
|
|
Mugaaz posted:Ultra mixed feelings. Feel like they asked for it copying magic this blatantly. OTOH, gently caress Hasbro. MTGO has been poo poo since its inception and has never gotten better. The reason people backed Hex is because they want a real CCG to play online. The reason HS/HEX/Solforge/Infinity Wars are gaining any traction is because MTGO is a disgrace. I dont understand how Hasbro can afford to throw this money at lawyers instead of software engineers. I've been enjoying my time with Hex, but if Hex was a paper card game I would of bought 1 theme deck then went straight back to playing Magic. I think most people jumping to Hex from MTG are doing so because of how bad MTGO is. All of the sweet features in Hex could of been added to MTGO 5 years ago. Hex is not replacing MTG for me, just MTGO. Except it's not even replacing MTGO, I stopped playing that years ago. I, and literally everyone I know who backed this game, have backed it because there's also PVE. The PVP is solid as we can all see but it's straight-up magic with a better client and that's hardly a reason to throw money at a kickstarter.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 07:01
|
|
|
Vincent Valentine posted:I, and literally everyone I know who backed this game, have backed it because there's also PVE. The PVP is solid as we can all see but it's straight-up magic with a better client and that's hardly a reason to throw money at a kickstarter. I did not back it for PVE. I backed it because it was MTGO 2.0.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 07:03
|
|
|
Mugaaz posted:Ultra mixed feelings. Feel like they asked for it copying magic this blatantly. OTOH, gently caress Hasbro. MTGO has been poo poo since its inception and has never gotten better. The reason people backed Hex is because they want a real CCG to play online. The reason HS/HEX/Solforge/Infinity Wars are gaining any traction is because MTGO is a disgrace. I dont understand how Hasbro can afford to throw this money at lawyers instead of software engineers. I've been enjoying my time with Hex, but if Hex was a paper card game I would of bought 1 theme deck then went straight back to playing Magic. I think most people jumping to Hex from MTG are doing so because of how bad MTGO is. All of the sweet features in Hex could of been added to MTGO 5 years ago. Hex is not replacing MTG for me, just MTGO. Except it's not even replacing MTGO, I stopped playing that years ago. Here's the thing though, blatantly copying Magic's rules is NOT illegal. Welcome to the games business, you systems are not protected by law. Hasbro is NOT protecting a trademark that has been violated. They're using their position as a large corporation to try to bully a competitor out of the market via attrition on baseless lawsuits that nevertheless require CZ to dump money on legal fees. Personally, I'm in on Hex because it is similar to Magic, which I loved but recently quit because my collection was worth a new car, and I couldn't justify that much money tied up in cardboard. I'm also largely drawn in because PvE looks awesome.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 07:32
|
|
|
Mikujin posted:I did not back it for PVE. I backed it because it was MTGO 2.0. This plus greedy 'what if' mental scenarios regarding the possible EV of a draft per week forever. I don't know if anyone else remembers battleforge, it was a tcg/rts hybrid put out by EA awhile back that featured PvE and had some neat concepts, but ultimately died off because the core gameplay was just a little bit lacking. As an EA product they fully monetized the tcg aspect, so I went the cheap route and bought a Russian starter pack code. Long story short, I discovered a way (it wasn't complicated) to redeem said code mutiple times for starter packs and points. It was amazing having every card I wanted and running roughshod over the auction house. Part of the reason I splurged on Hex was because I saw the kickstarter as a way to regain that feeling of being on the ~ground floor~ of something cool, while reaping the advantages that come with that territory.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 07:32
|
|
|
Karnegal posted:Personally, I'm in on Hex because it is similar to Magic, which I loved but recently quit because my collection was worth a new car, and I couldn't justify that much money tied up in cardboard. I'm also largely drawn in because PvE looks awesome. Conversely for me, the nice thing about Hex is that it isn't MTG: I can start fresh and play the game on a relatively even footing with other folks, without having to sell my car first. Plus there isn't 20 year's worth of rules cruft and pointless card inflation. In other words, I like playing Hex because it's a different game.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 07:47
|
|
|
I quit magic during Ice age back in the day (because gently caress cumulative upkeep) and it was actually playing Hex that started getting me back into MtG some. There's online friends you play with, and then there's your buddies you just want to shoot the poo poo with while being the complete nerds you are. While I really see the similarities between the two games and how MtG could be annoyed, I can also see the same thing in a lot of other card games I've played over the years. It's a pretty low move with the lawsuit, and I've also politely emailed them my opinion on the matter. While I highly doubt mine will matter at all, I'm hoping it's another drop in the bucket and someone in PR will notice it's starting to rise. But while they're keeping up with this lawsuit, I don't think I'll be grabbing much more MtG items.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 07:52
|
|
|
Sent my "longtime customer" not buying and more WotC product e-mail.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 08:14
|
|
|
Karnegal posted:Here's the thing though, blatantly copying Magic's rules is NOT illegal. Welcome to the games business, you systems are not protected by law. Hasbro is NOT protecting a trademark that has been violated. They're using their position as a large corporation to try to bully a competitor out of the market via attrition on baseless lawsuits that nevertheless require CZ to dump money on legal fees. Tapping is patented. That was a 20-year patent made in 1995.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 09:03
|
|
|
kingcobweb posted:Tapping is patented. That was a 20-year patent made in 1995. Yeah, the patent case is perhaps their best shot. Trade dress is nebulous but also a bit of a stretch in a lot of regards since you can't claim it against a functional component. Copyright is also largely BS. I'm not as sure on how the patent claim will work out. The big deal here is that the patent has never been tested in court as far as a I know. Every time it's been invoked it's ended in an out of court settlement which does nothing for legal precedent.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 09:17
|
|
I think it's only patented if you call it tapping. 
|
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 09:17
|
|
|
SALT CURES HAM posted:I think it's only patented if you call it tapping. words and terms are trade marked. The action of turning a card sideways to represent use of the cards ability is what the patent is focused on. This may or may not hold up in court as courts have frequently stuck down patents as being too broad or otherwise illegal. Again, we have no idea whether the WotC patent would actually hold up in court.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 09:22
|
|
|
Karnegal posted:Sent my "longtime customer" not buying and more WotC product e-mail. Which email should I send to, anyway?
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 09:37
|
|
|
Afgad posted:Which email should I send to, anyway? Hasbrobrandpr@hasbro.com was the email listed on their announcement of the lawsuit.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 10:17
|
|
|
Karnegal posted:Here's the thing though, blatantly copying Magic's rules is NOT illegal. Welcome to the games business, you systems are not protected by law. Hasbro is NOT protecting a trademark that has been violated. They're using their position as a large corporation to try to bully a competitor out of the market via attrition on baseless lawsuits that nevertheless require CZ to dump money on legal fees. You should read this: http://www.gamedevelopment.com/view/feature/187385/clone_wars_the_five_most_.php?print=1 quote:6Waves expressed the underlying idea in its game, Yeti Town, a little differently. Instead of a woodland setting, it was an Arctic setting. The antagonist was a yeti instead of a bear. It used a campfire instead of a robot to destroy tiles. The object hierarchy progressed from saplings to trees to tents to cabins and so on. In other words, this is not settled law and it's an evolving area. Given how shameless the copying is with Hex, who knows what will happen. also: the primary claim is trade dress & the CCG patents that WOTC has. also: http://imgur.com/a/nHV7g FieryBalrog fucked around with this message at 11:38 on May 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 11:35
|
|
|
I sent an email to Hasbro's PR department. Nothing inflammatory, because that never helps. I highly doubt that a couple of people sending an email will do anything, but if this suit does go all the way and Hex gets shut down, I will have lost money because of it, so I'll just cut out spending on Magic (which I play pretty much weekly) to compensate.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 12:35
|
|
|
FieryBalrog posted:You should read this: Yeah, I read the same article. One judge getting one case wrong because he doesn't understand video games doesn't necessarily mean all prior law is invalid. Based on the other five cases in that article Hex should be in the clear, but who knows what a judge will actually rule, because judges are old men who don't understand things. I have a hard time believing the patent claim will end up mattering that much. From everything I've read so far the patent is going to expire in September if it hasn't already. By the point this goes to trial, won't the patent issue have become largely moot? Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 13:50 on May 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 13:46
|
|
|
Captain Capitalism posted:I sent an email to Hasbro's PR department. Nothing inflammatory, because that never helps. I highly doubt that a couple of people sending an email will do anything, but if this suit does go all the way and Hex gets shut down, I will have lost money because of it, so I'll just cut out spending on Magic (which I play pretty much weekly) to compensate. I fired off an email written in a similar vein as this. I know the 100 or so emails Hasbro gets over this will mean dick all, but it's the least we can do. I enjoyed my occasional physical M:TG drafts but this is a good reason to kill the habit.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 14:25
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, I read the same article. One judge getting one case wrong because he doesn't understand video games doesn't necessarily mean all prior law is invalid. Based on the other five cases in that article Hex should be in the clear, but who knows what a judge will actually rule, because judges are old men who don't understand things. This is where I have no clue how it works. The fact they they sued while they still have the patent might be important, but I have no clue what it means.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 16:58
|
|
|
I'm seeing a few possible outcomes at this point: Nightmare Scenario: The preliminary injunction is granted. All development of Hex stops. The servers are all shut down. The best you could hope for in this situation is that CZE might manage to win, but it's probably doubtful that Hex would continue on. Typical Scenario: The preliminary injunction is denied. A trial date is set, but before that happens CZE and Hasbro/WotC reach a deal. CZE would probably end up paying quite a bit to Hasbro/WotC, but Hex would survive and might even benefit from the publicity. Dream Scenario: After the preliminary injunction is denied, Hex development really ramps up. By the time the court date rolls around, Hex has all the things that make it substantially different from Magic, MTGO and DotP. CZE wins the case, and Hasbro/WotC looks like a bully. Bonus Dream Scenario: Some evidence or a WotC whistleblower comes up during the case that shows that WotC knowingly filed the case just to stifle competition, rather than to protect their IP. CZE files a countersuit, and Hex gets a nice cash infusion for extra development. I'm guessing we will see a pre-trial settlement.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 17:10
|
|
|
So, anyone looking to offload a Pro Player account?
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
The real dream scenario is that WotC absorbs CZE and forces them to put out a MODO client that isn't complete dogshit.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 17:22
|
|
|
Equilibrium posted:The real dream scenario is that WotC absorbs CZE and forces them to put out a MODO client that isn't complete dogshit. This, but not the absorption part.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 17:25
|
|
|
Equilibrium posted:The real dream scenario is that WotC absorbs CZE and forces them to put out a MODO client that isn't complete dogshit. God no. I don't want my digital TCG prices tied to cardboard prices. I like the fact that the game is half the cost of MTGO, and could probably be even cheaper because there are no card board collectors that they have to keep happy. There is no reserved list or any of the poo poo associated with that.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 17:27
|
|
|
What a Judas posted:Also I was wrong, it's WotC, but probably at Hasbro's behest. Maybe. They sure haven't taken action against, say, the "Third Party" Transformers market. There's a difference in target audience there, but...
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 17:36
|
|
|
Go RV! posted:So, anyone looking to offload a Pro Player account? I am, though it's not connected to the lawsuit. Someone did ask before, but I don't really need $250 Steam credit.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 17:44
|
|
|
My understanding of patent law is that even if the MTG patent expires before the trial is over, if they win Wizards would be entitled to compensation from Cryptozoic for their loss of business due to patent breach from the time period when the patent was in effect. In other words, all of the Kickstarter money would probably be claimed, and it seems likely that Wizards would claim even more damages from loss of business. This has happened a couple of times with biotech companies if I recall correctly with patented molecules and there's some weird quirks of case law that could potentially be used against Cryptozoic in this situation. I'll look into it a little bit more when I'm off work.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 18:15
|
|
|
I know I'll be preaching to the choir here, but it's really dubious to claim that the effective duplicates of Magic cards are evidence of Cryptozoic doing something shady or wrong rather than just being good game designers. If we assume that it's not a violation of copyright to largely use the same sorts of game mechanics--and it seems to have been established that it is not--then certain card designs, especially when you're dealing with simple ones, are pretty likely to emerge. Take the Atrophy/Instill Infection comparison. Is the idea of permanently weakening a creature (whether you need to use a counter to represent it or not) obvious? I would say yes. Is the idea of cantrips obvious? Again yes. Saying that, a cantrip that permanently gives -1/-1 is pretty likely to emerge as a draft common. Now the other aspect of the card that looks copied: the cost. Well, what should they cost it at? Presumably Magic's designers are smart game designers who costed it at 3B because that is a reasonable, obvious cost for this card in this sort of TCG! Now--obviously I don't claim that Hex designed the closer duplicates in a complete vacuum, I'm sure they're all aware of Magic and its card designs and "knew" that 2BB would be a good cost for their not-Damnation (for example), but asking them to wipe their own memories and reinvent the wheel seems a bit much, especially when they would end up with the same result again if their design was good (and presumably have exactly the same amount of nerds complaining that they'd copied things). Once again this is all predicated on the (I believe correct) assumption that Cryptozoic is not in violation for having mana, power, toughness, etc., by different names, but once you grant that premise, I don't see how you can blame them for having some duplicates, especially given that Magic has had literally 20 years to camp out many of the remotely obvious or good card designs. That's not even getting into the much looser comparisons in an already cherry-picked list, like the Greed comparison where Hex's costs 1BB and 2 to activate, or the Form of the Dragon comparison where it shares the cost and Moat clause (and flavor, but I think we can laugh out any implication that Wizards has a claim on the idea of your fantasy wizard turning into a dragon) but differs mechanically in some other, potentially very significant even, ways.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 19:49
|
|
|
JerryLee posted:I know I'll be preaching to the choir here, but it's really dubious to claim that the effective duplicates of Magic cards are evidence of Cryptozoic doing something shady or wrong rather than just being good game designers. If we assume that it's not a violation of copyright to largely use the same sorts of game mechanics--and it seems to have been established that it is not--then certain card designs, especially when you're dealing with simple ones, are pretty likely to emerge. Well, there's a substantive difference here too in that because of the threshold system, the "costs" for all of these cards is actually slightly different. In magic terms, all hex cards would read "[x mana of any color] so long as you have [x number of land types in play]", not "two black mana" or whatever. A Hex card with two cost and two blood threshold doesn't cost the equivalent of two black mana, it costs the equivalent of two colorless mana and two swamps in play, which isn't the same.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:07
|
|
|
JerryLee posted:Take the Atrophy/Instill Infection comparison. Is the idea of permanently weakening a creature (whether you need to use a counter to represent it or not) obvious? I would say yes. Is the idea of cantrips obvious? Again yes. Saying that, a cantrip that permanently gives -1/-1 is pretty likely to emerge as a draft common. Now the other aspect of the card that looks copied: the cost. Well, what should they cost it at? Presumably Magic's designers are smart game designers who costed it at 3B because that is a reasonable, obvious cost for this card in this sort of TCG!
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:18
|
|
|
For those interested here is a write-up about the lawsuit from a lawyer's perspective (also someone who has played MTG for many years and runs this MTG site) - http://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/05/understanding-the-wizards-v-hex-lawsuit-in-plain-english He does a good job of explaining different parts of the lawsuit (even saying the Wizards lawyers put in some "nice try but this won't work" into the suit). He is of the opinion Cryptozoic would lose certain parts, but not all parts, of the case, and may have to change some of the way certain things function.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:I said a much shorter version of this in the magic thread but all I saw were responses of plagiarism and no responses about not reinventing the wheel. Did you make the same point there and was it glossed over? I don't have search but didn't see anything in the past few pages. Of course, if you don't use such a similar resource system, you don't run into that sort of similarity. But, eh, I really don't know enough about Hex to say one way or the other.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:47
|
|
|
The resource system is the least similar thing about the two games.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:52
|
|
|
Esser-Z posted:
This is actually the most important part, since Wizards wants to use a jury. I am confident Cryptos lawyers have been looking at every part of hex the whole way through and giving them the go ahead on things. And when they see things they'll have to defend against, they probably already had defenses written down. But I don't think they anticipated a jury. Convincing a bunch of mtg fanatics that your game isn't a copy is going to be hard. Convincing a bunch of people who don't play card games that your game isn't a copy is going to be hard.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 11:43 |
|
|
Protip posted:For those interested here is a write-up about the lawsuit from a lawyer's perspective (also someone who has played MTG for many years and runs this MTG site) - http://www.quietspeculation.com/2014/05/understanding-the-wizards-v-hex-lawsuit-in-plain-english This is a good article, people should read it.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 21:12
|
|