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My players are getting to the point where they're wanting to branch out a little from the base classes. After this current front I'm going to give them a chance to move into a new class (essentially rolling a new character at the same level) but isn't this the sort of thing Compendium Classes can be used for? At least for minor stuff. They're generally happy with their character archetypes, but like, the thief wants to be less "thief" and more "master assassin" and he isn't a fan of poisons. We can't seem to convince him that not getting 70 Ultimate Kill Moves isn't a bad thing but whatever. I bring this up because I've now found myself curating his creation of an entirely new class and no one in my group, including myself, is comfortable enough with the system for anything like that yet. But he's stubborn. I think this would be okay but he's the kind of player who will sit there and try to lawyer his way out of anything negative happening to his dude at all times, even if it means dragging the game out in an endless series of him reacting to every 8 on his Hack and Slash with a Defy Danger, or "oh I'm going to defend this tree from the monster's missed attacks and use that to draw the attack to myself and spend another hold to take half damage" (this is actually kind of funny but in this context it was pretty annoying after an hour of this) and it's like, the elf kicks you for 1d4 because you botched your attack, just deal dude. Anyway, sort of asking for advice, sort of venting. I got him leaning on the fiction a little harder since his heavy D&D/Pathfinder background is bleeding in, so it's like "Cool you summon a shadow blob and it has +1 armor. What does it look like?" but at this point his Master Assassin Shadow Rogue Mage is getting a little out of hand. I am not prepared for this. On a lighter note, our game's going pretty well. Group was allied with some elves rooting out some undead from their weird-rear end nebulous forest, but our Ranger took "God of the Wastes" and used his cleric spell to chat with one of the undead, and he's secretly allying with them for the time being. Our Wizard, who was reading his mind at the time, knows about this but is waiting for a better opportunity to play his hand, because being a Magic Cop means conserving the sanctity of magic and the elves are kind of assholes when it comes to that sort of thing.
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May 16, 2014 18:41
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Babe Magnet posted:
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May 16, 2014 18:52
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How about the City Thief? It's in the OP and I think it's pretty good. A bit more assassin like, but still good for a dungeon run.
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May 16, 2014 18:56
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Maybe just give him a couple multiclass moves? Like, wizard for spells/invisibility and paladin for that +2d4 damage thing (reflavored to something more assassin-y).
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May 16, 2014 18:56
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That dude sounds like he has a bad case of "The D&Ds".
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May 16, 2014 19:08
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Yeah he does, but he's not like, a lost cause or anything. He's super into the game, it's just different than what he's used to. This is why I'm not telling him "no" when it comes to making his special class and all. He'll get better, and I think it'll be a lot easier to get him into the system when he's playing what he actually wants to play. So what we're doing now is, as you guys suggested, largely pulling bits and pieces from other classes so that his custom moves can be toned down or, in some cases, buffed up a bit to be more in line with established playbooks. His Shadow Thief is now less of a mage that sneaks and more of an Assassin (the playbook) with darkness and shadow manipulation instead of ranged/melee adaptability. Also he got bits and pieces of the cleric's religion thing to reign in some of the crazier abilities like his summon he wants in. Still very much a work in progress but if we end up using it we'll definitely refine and fix it up as we go.
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May 16, 2014 19:46
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It occurs to me that I should probably post this here! On DTRPG it updated a while ago, but here you go, folks. The Initiate, updated with help from Gnome! If you like it and haven't purchased it already, it is still up on Drivethru here. The changes are pretty much all to the level-up moves, making them more fun. (It does, however, still use Race and Alignment rather than Background and Drive, largely because making further changes to it is a bit of a game of telephone, and the only real changes would be to what the moves are called, as I'm quite happy with the race and alignment moves.)
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May 16, 2014 19:48
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Babe Magnet posted:After this current front I'm going to give them a chance to move into a new class (essentially rolling a new character at the same level) but isn't this the sort of thing Compendium Classes can be used for? Yes, that's explicitly what CCs are meant for. You should write CCs to represent what they want, or if you're not comfortable with that, feel free to pilfer existing classes for moves that you can then make into a CC. Babe Magnet posted:Master Assassin Shadow Rogue Mage I literally wrote a shadow-magic-using Assassin class, so you could offer him the choice to either change completely to the Assassin, or else change to the City Thief (which is a Thief variant with more stealth/acrobatics instead of the poison moves) and use the CC version of the Assassin that I wrote (or make a CC out of Assassin moves).
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May 16, 2014 19:56
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Yeah, that's what I was going to do at first, but he's assured me that his class will be different enough for it to matter. I'll definitely keep an eye on it, and I'm just throwing things from the Assassin class at him in an attempt to make it mostly Assassin because Assassin rules. I've actually got another question, or plea for advice, or whatever. My monsters and such are dropping like flies, and no amount of tweaking them is doing much good. Besides one of our level two fighters being basically invincible (the other one actually died already, but managed to come back at a spooky cost), I think the issue lies with how I'm playing them. I know I'm probably not supposed to use them completely reactionary (dealing their damage and using abilities when players fudge Hack and Slash or Defy Danger) but I am having trouble deciding when I should have an enemy make the first move. I don't roll anything to attack, right? I just do damage and effects? Because that's what's preventing me from having monsters do anything but react at the moment. Well, I guess I could use that time to force players to react to the attacks but that's what melted the warrior. Maybe it was a fluke and I need to keep doing that, who knows. Babe Magnet fucked around with this message at 20:17 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 20:13
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Well firstly, the answer is never "add more numbers". This is part of why the core classes are boring, a lot of their moves are just mechanical bonuses, and that poo poo is boring. The strength of this game actually lies with the GM and the GM moves. You're sort of required to be a little bit of a 'dick GM' like we've all seen in various gaming horror stories, the difference being that your players and you are balanced and have a mutual investment in the story and world (the fiction) so when your players are playing hard (like you say they are) that should be a sign to you to start playing hard. Maybe there's more monsters, maybe there's monsters that don't do damage but instead tie up and inflict other hindrances on players. Gang up on them, do damage, take their stuff, you don't have to wait for them to trigger a move. As a GM, you never roll anything. ever. What you say just happens. Also, I get the notion from your posts (and correct me if I'm wrong) that your players may also be abusing Hack&Slash and Defy Danger a bit. H&S is designed to be pretty self contained in that, the player's roll decides what happens. If I'm stabbing the dragon, it's H&S no matter what. I can say "I stab Smaug and then do a baseball slide underneath him to get behind him." but that just means I've triggered two seperate moves on two seperate actions in The FictionTM. I roll the H&S, and if I take damage I take damage regardless, and THEN I roll DD for my slide. So maybe it becomes 'Ok, you stabbed Smaug, but one of his claws catches you in the shoulder (damage) just as you slide under him.' Error 404 fucked around with this message at 20:33 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 20:24
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Mors Rattus posted:It occurs to me that I should probably post this here! On DTRPG it updated a while ago, but here you go, folks. Awesome! I've been playing an Initiate in a PBP game here for a few months, and I like it a lot. I'll definitely be purchasing this! Edit: Is it updated in the bundle as well? Something Else fucked around with this message at 20:51 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 20:31
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Yeah I think I'm laying it all out a little too simply. I play like that, using fiction to determine outcome instead of rolls. When I mentioned previously that he wanted to use his defy danger in immediate reaction to his botched hack and slash, I didn't really allow that, since it was his action that was still happening at that moment that caused him to take damage in the first place. I adhere very closely to the rule/guideline/whatever that says to never say your move, and I always encourage my players to explain what their characters are doing, since "hide behind shield warrior to avoid arrows" isn't a Defy Danger, it's a Defend that's now the shield warrior's responsibility. For example, I mentioned once upon a time that a warrior of ours made his grand entrance by jumping out of a nearby tree and drop-kicking a tough enemy. What he actually explained that he was doing was trying to land on the safe(ish) end of the other warrior's spear, which was lodged in the enemy's chest at the moment. So I figured I would have him roll a hack-and-slash but it would be as if he was using the first warrior's spear instead of his own weapons. He ended up loving it up sort of and landed on his back and took a heap of damage, but I figured I played it out well enough and everyone got a good laugh out of it anyway. Any misuse of hack and slash or defy danger or defend or any of that sort of thing is purely accidental, as far as I can tell. Everyone's trying to play within the spirit of the rules and everyone leans heavily on fiction. Our last session actually had about an hour stretch where alliances were made, alliances were broken, a powerful foe was vanquished and not a single die was rolled, so I think we've got a decent handle on that. It's just when we actually go to roll die, that's when things get a little out of hand. I think I just need more practice and familiarization with the system, or to try something completely different in the adventure for a while.
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May 16, 2014 20:39
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I had a player that was monstrous in the damage department and could take a real licking with barely any hit point loss. I found the best thing was to present hard to choose or hard to win scenarios. There's a big bad and a bunch of minions, if you really want to focus on the big bad you're going to have to defy danger past the minions, and vice versa. Also show him choices. He might be attacking the big bad fine, but throw out a "as you trade blows you notice the sneaky bad guy about to drop on the cleric for a nasty sneak attack, what do you so?". Also really use environmental hazards or moral choices that tie into the character so he can't just H&S his way out. You can't hack and slash to help someone you have a bond with, or protect a valuable npc, or hold up a crumbling mineshaft in the midst of combat.
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May 16, 2014 22:40
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Just got a backer update yesterday or the day before where he basically said he's been swamped with things and understands he's very behind but still plans on getting books out. Yeah! I didn't get the project finished before my Uni exams, which was a total pain. My exams are done and I've deliberately not picked anything else up, so I'm basically working full-time on Pirate World now. Hope to have it finished soon.
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May 17, 2014 00:07
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The Supreme Court posted:Yeah! I didn't get the project finished before my Uni exams, which was a total pain. My exams are done and I've deliberately not picked anything else up, so I'm basically working full-time on Pirate World now. Hope to have it finished soon. This ain't gonna keep you outta MY supreme court. And by that I mean civil court. When I SUE you for taking too long 
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May 17, 2014 00:52
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Fenarisk posted:This ain't gonna keep you outta MY supreme court. And by that I mean civil court. When I SUE you for taking too long You joke, but someone seriously threatened me with hiring a private investigator to hunt me and/or Mikan down over Inverse World being late. I still don't understand that at all, he only had a 15 dollar pledge. PIs are expensive.
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May 17, 2014 00:57
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Fenarisk posted:This ain't gonna keep you outta MY supreme court. And by that I mean civil court. When I SUE you for taking too long I find myself both innocent of all charges and ruggedly handsome. Case closed! (I'm hurrying!) gnome7 posted:You joke, but someone seriously threatened me with hiring a private investigator to hunt me and/or Mikan down over Inverse World being late. The Supreme Court fucked around with this message at 01:30 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 01:25
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I just recently introduced some of my group to the redone mage series, and almost immediately we had an immortal clock-samurai searching for an honorable death since eons past. I happened to notice, when browsing through the playbooks I had, that Sky Dancer is very nearly a fit for a Storm Mage, and would cover the Dex category. Gnome, have you considered making something similar/with revisions to fit that into the pack?
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May 17, 2014 01:28
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Handgun Phonics posted:I just recently introduced some of my group to the redone mage series, and almost immediately we had an immortal clock-samurai searching for an honorable death since eons past. I happened to notice, when browsing through the playbooks I had, that Sky Dancer is very nearly a fit for a Storm Mage, and would cover the Dex category. Gnome, have you considered making something similar/with revisions to fit that into the pack? I had been considering making a second pack of 5 more mages, yeah. Storm Mage was in the lineup, but it mostly ended up being the Sky Dancer with Leaf on the Wind replaced with a lightning bolt move. The main reason this didn't happen is because I got a bit burned out on making mages after the fifth one I finished, and from starting on 4 other ones, all over the course of a month or two.
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May 17, 2014 02:13
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The Supreme Court posted:Yeah! I didn't get the project finished before my Uni exams, which was a total pain. My exams are done and I've deliberately not picked anything else up, so I'm basically working full-time on Pirate World now. Hope to have it finished soon. I'm glad to hear you're back working on it, and I'm also glad you weren't insane/stupid enough to prioritize 'pirate RPG' over 'university exams', so just in general well done.
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May 17, 2014 02:24
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Xiahou Dun posted:I finally get to play instead of just running tomorrow, and I can not decide on a playbook. I'm my group's GM so this is probably my one chance to be a player and I want to make it count. Star Mage. And, that was $50 well spent.
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May 17, 2014 02:28
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Both mages are great but I gotta say Winter Mage is pretty awesome.
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May 17, 2014 03:05
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Xiahou Dun posted:Also, god drat it gnome7 and RulebookHeaviliy, what'd my wallet ever do to you? I just bought fifty bucks of material from you guys on DriveThruRPG. (Lots of playbooks and Mounted Combat since one of my players recently tamed a giant spider.) I know what you mean. I only get to play so often (I usually GM for my group of friends) and with all the playbooks I've bought from those two there are so many flavors of awesome to choose from that I can't decide. I do want to play all the mages at some point, but I've pretty much settled on the Winter Mage for my next character. Unless of course I end up making a Star Mage riding a space whale courtesy of Mounted Combat. Or a Clock Mage simply because that playbook owns bones.
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May 17, 2014 06:10
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tinkerttoy posted:Giant robots shaped like animals. They have two control systems: they can either be directly controlled from a wizard's tower hidden in the mountains, or the human soul that's been bound to the construct can take over and do their best to not cross the controller, lest they be tortured for stepping out of line. You can free the soul by destroying the glowing weak point that allows them to be directly controlled, saving a lot of fighting and possibly opening up some neat RP with the now-autonomous giant robot, or just go ahead and destroy them outright. Here's what I'd do: Be open with your players - tell them before the fight that they can fight to kill this thing or fight to liberate it. Give the monster HP, just like any other, and say that reducing it to 0 means they've achieved their goal. If you're giving the characters rewards for defeating it, give them the same rewards regardless of whether they kill it or liberate it. This is all really hard to think about given I don't know anything about the game's characters, but I can tell you that giving them unambiguously better rewards for making a certain choice won't work out. If you give them better rewards for doing what they want to do, then the choice is pointless. If you give them better rewards for doing what they don't want to do, you're a lovely GM because you've introduced an unnecessary and inevitably unsatisfying choice which gives your players the feeling of missing out no matter what they do. That was part of the problem with Bioshock if you've ever played that. As for your first two questions - that's for your group to decide! Anyway, the difference between "threatening" and "overpowered" is really down to how you play the monster. Someone made a great post on this a while ago, but the gist of it is that you play monsters dumb, they'll be easier, and if you play them smart, they'll be harder. Charging them with a spear vs. Tucker's kobolds sort of thing. If the players seem like they're not having fun with the fight, ask them why and make changes accordingly.
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May 17, 2014 13:27
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Xiahou Dun posted:I finally get to play instead of just running tomorrow, and I can not decide on a playbook. I'm my group's GM so this is probably my one chance to be a player and I want to make it count. Clock Mage is superior, but Winter Mage has the more awesome death move. Also, while you're grabbing new playbooks, don't forget The Ninja. You'll thank me every time you log someone.
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May 17, 2014 15:03
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Don't miss my post a page or so back of the redone core classes to fix the boring parts/moves and adding in drives and backgrounds. I've got an update for the paladin too in order to smooth out stalwart defender, should be up later today.
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May 17, 2014 15:32
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So will Pirate world be available to buy? I'm disappointed I didn't discover DW early enough to contribute to the kickstarter and the stuff on offer sounded really interesting. The mages rank amongst my favourite play books. Their mechanics are all really unique and awesome. I had a really hard time picking between them when I applied for my first pbp. Now I've spent roughly £70-£90 on this game. I love it.
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May 17, 2014 17:01
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I'm trying to think of a real rugged burly defender type playbook that can be slotted into most settings but just can't seem to find enough inspirations and tropes or fictional characters to build around it as an entire playbook.
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May 17, 2014 18:40
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Fenarisk posted:I'm trying to think of a real rugged burly defender type playbook that can be slotted into most settings but just can't seem to find enough inspirations and tropes or fictional characters to build around it as an entire playbook. Colossus, Wolverine, Brock Samson, 4e's Warden, Alex Louis Armstrong, Rip Haywire, Big Band from Skullgirls, Zangief, probably others?
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May 17, 2014 18:59
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Brian Blessed. Not any characters he's played, just the man himself.
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May 17, 2014 19:17
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Fenarisk posted:I'm trying to think of a real rugged burly defender type playbook that can be slotted into most settings but just can't seem to find enough inspirations and tropes or fictional characters to build around it as an entire playbook. Look: Bearded, mustached, amazing side-burns. Yes, even if it's a female.
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May 18, 2014 00:15
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Ratpick posted:I know what you mean. I only get to play so often (I usually GM for my group of friends) and with all the playbooks I've bought from those two there are so many flavors of awesome to choose from that I can't decide. It's the nature of games that a lot of user experience never gets transmitted back up to the game designer, so every Space Whale mention gets a smile out of me.
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May 18, 2014 00:20
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Speaking of Pirate World, here's the first draft of something I've been working on for the Hirelings section. You might remember the original from Alumnus Post a few months back. Comments are appreciated!quote:Dumuzid, Goblin Pyrocaster
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May 18, 2014 01:32
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Bigup DJ posted:I can tell you that giving them unambiguously better rewards for making a certain choice won't work out. If you give them better rewards for doing what they want to do, then the choice is pointless. If you give them better rewards for doing what they don't want to do, you're a lovely GM because you've introduced an unnecessary and inevitably unsatisfying choice which gives your players the feeling of missing out no matter what they do. You put forth a good point. Truth be told, I'm not sure what made me think that was a good idea in the first place: thinking in terms of video games, possibly.
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May 18, 2014 05:41
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Babe Magnet posted:Yeah I think I'm laying it all out a little too simply. I play like that, using fiction to determine outcome instead of rolls. When I mentioned previously that he wanted to use his defy danger in immediate reaction to his botched hack and slash, I didn't really allow that, since it was his action that was still happening at that moment that caused him to take damage in the first place. I adhere very closely to the rule/guideline/whatever that says to never say your move, and I always encourage my players to explain what their characters are doing, since "hide behind shield warrior to avoid arrows" isn't a Defy Danger, it's a Defend that's now the shield warrior's responsibility. For example, I mentioned once upon a time that a warrior of ours made his grand entrance by jumping out of a nearby tree and drop-kicking a tough enemy. What he actually explained that he was doing was trying to land on the safe(ish) end of the other warrior's spear, which was lodged in the enemy's chest at the moment. So I figured I would have him roll a hack-and-slash but it would be as if he was using the first warrior's spear instead of his own weapons. He ended up loving it up sort of and landed on his back and took a heap of damage, but I figured I played it out well enough and everyone got a good laugh out of it anyway. If the guy is trying to react his way out of a 7-9 with defy danger, just have your gm move be something he can't do that to. Similar to a guy who is a walking tank or crushes everything you put before him. I've had fun with failures by taking some of the "reveal an unwelcome truth" option that others here have suggested. For example, a failed roll for discern realities when searching a necromancer's quarters(along with how they were going about the situation) let me advance a grim portent and reveal it in the form of his journal (detailing the exploits) that they found. In combat a 7-9 move that prevents him from trying to DD out of would be "separate them", and have the monster he is fighting maneuver him away from the group or another shows up to flank. You can also shift the focus to another group member, or have your move be a threatened attack that someone else can react to, etc. Or just make sure to weave the damage he is taking into the narrative of how he attacks. So his jump-kick 7-9 you could have had him miss his foot on the end of the spear but catch something else, or landing badly and twisting his ankle, etc. Also he would roll his class's damage, since when you deal damage you do your class's damage. Make sure to give the players chances to do the things they built their guys to do, other wise they're going to feel like you're just dicking them over. Let them shine, and then when you want to put them in a hard spot, look at what their character isn't good at to draw inspiration. If the guy is a walking tank put something valuable in danger that he has to react to nimbly to save. Perhaps the enemies realize they can't man-fight him, so they try to avoid/kite him while targeting the more vulnerable people. If someone is always getting out by acting fast, maybe put him in a situation where he needs to talk his way out of getting jailed (and if he does cut and run, put a warrant out for him and maybe a bounty and poo poo here's a new plot hook).
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May 18, 2014 13:27
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I updated the Crusader (revised core Paladin), basically changing Armored Bulwark to be less clunky https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwKVEg-l1p9SQW5mNmxSSllEZU0/edit?usp=sharing
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May 18, 2014 18:30
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Fenarisk posted:I updated the Crusader (revised core Paladin), basically changing Armored Bulwark to be less clunky Hey Fenarisk, I adore your updates to each of the core classes, but I couldn't help but notice that you revamped them all except the Cleric. Any plans in the future for the 8th class?
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May 18, 2014 20:20
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TheTofuShop posted:Hey Fenarisk, I adore your updates to each of the core classes, but I couldn't help but notice that you revamped them all except the Cleric. Any plans in the future for the 8th class? I didn't do the Cleric or Wizard yet, actually. I haven't decided if I want to keep them vancian casting style or change them to something else, and for my upcoming game I didn't need them anyway. I'm still debating on what I want to do with them, but I'm leaning towards vancian casting since other playbooks cover the alternative much better.
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May 18, 2014 21:11
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I was thinking of making an expanded spell list. If you decide to make them vancian-style, I wouldn't mind expanding upon their spell lists.
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May 18, 2014 21:19
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Deltasquid posted:I was thinking of making an expanded spell list. If you decide to make them vancian-style, I wouldn't mind expanding upon their spell lists. What is there that's missing from the current spell list that you absolutely must have? What justifies giving Wizards and Clerics even more options and increasing their power?
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May 18, 2014 21:22
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