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Mazed posted:Did you actually manage to beat it and have the host stay alive? Smelter's where I ground out my 30 Sunbro wins a few days ago. My experiences was pretty good - roughly 7/10 successes, though I did hit a few bad patches. It tends to work out if he does the nasty surprise early because even if the host gets caught out by it, the attack does less damage in the early section of the fight. If he keeps it in reserve until the later stages, he can easily one-shot hosts. Definitely the number one cause of deaths I saw. The second most common cause of death was the host summoning Lucatiel and her failing to get into the boss room, leaving the host and me to fight a boss with beefed up health. (And I was a lightning/force-flinging gun turret, so tanking was not my thing.) It's a straight line walk, lady! How do you get lost on the way?! ninjaiguana fucked around with this message at 13:45 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 13:43
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I feel bad for the Covetous Demon. Poor hideous slug thing.
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May 17, 2014 13:49
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Regy Rusty posted:I feel bad for the Covetous Demon. Poor hideous slug thing. I have a shameful confession - I actually died to Covetous on my first attempt.  I didn't pay enough attention to the dimensions of the room, got backed up against a wall, and there was no way out. My entire screen was giant slug monster. I'm clearly not good at Dark Souls! Also, I don't think you need to feel sorry for him - he's got a big goofy grin on his face! He's clearly having a great time! Up until you kill him, of course. You MONSTER. ninjaiguana fucked around with this message at 13:56 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 13:54
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Unfortunately, corpses don't interact with your player model anymore like they did in DS1, so you can't fling them around by rolling. Fortunately, leaving a corpse alone for a little while and coming back to it frequently has hilarious results. I've had corpses hanging off walls and all kinds of things.
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May 17, 2014 13:56
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Stokes posted:Throughout the history of this thread I've been seeing a lot of 'man I'm done with pvp all I see is Overpowered Build here. Man the arena sucks etc.' I can't help but think that you're just not bringing a character into the arena capable of killing other players. Those 'over-powered' builds can be beaten. Optimize your weaponry. For example: You can wield a +10 Silverblack Spear or you can wield a +10 Dark infused Silverblack Spear and then buff it with Dark Weapon. Which one of those do you think will win you more duels? You can't just bring your pve equipped or half-assed un-upgraded character into the arena and expect to get anywhere. You need a plan. Your character needs planning. You need a way to deal with multiple situations. You need to carefully manage your stamina. Batfogger? Carry poison moss on your belt. Mage? Carry blue burrs on your belt. Afraid your opponent is going to chug? Carry Lloyd's Talismans on your belt. Don't be afraid to chug, but do expect to be punished for it. Don't get mad when your opponent chugs. You can always wag your finger at them after your victory. Backstab fisher? Upgrade a pyro flame and add Great Combustion to your arsenal. They will learn not to fish or die. Turtler? Get good at guard break. Turtlers are the easiest fights I have these days. Well that's kind of the problem; there are tons of different weapons and builds you can use, but there are ones that are WAY better for PvP. Thus, if you want to compete you have too bring your own top tier gear. Which means going a specific build. Your gimping yourself in terms of damage if you don't use an infused weapon because scaling sucks. So you need to run a character build that uses infusions. You need to use a weapon that has a good moveset to accommodate for lag, otherwise you'll lose a bunch of fights due to latency. All of this kind of forces you towards more homogenized characters. Now if the arena is supposed to be some "serious" pvp place fine. The issue is its the only good way to get cracked red eye orbs. If you want to dickwraith, you need orbs. So that right there kills a bunch of fun gimmick builds, which sucks since gimmick dickwraiths are the best ones. Regy Rusty posted:I feel bad for the Covetous Demon. Poor hideous slug thing. He's literally the goon demon. A cautionary tale. VVV Why don't you read the second paragraph where I address that. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 14:47 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 14:36
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That has always been the case in this and literally every other series with any amount of competition in it. You'll never escape the fact that there will always be an item, weapon, armor, whatever that is considered the best and thus used by all the people that care about that.
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May 17, 2014 14:44
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Yeah, the big problem with PvP right now is that there's just such a huge obstacle to actually getting to PvP unless you're in the rat, bell or dragon covenants. The whole Way/Sentinels of Blue arrangement signals from the start that From wanted invasions to be a thing even at early levels. It's a pretty good idea in theory, but the reality of it is that the whole cracked eye orb system is time-consuming, unreliable, and tied up with this boring secondary system (the arena) that I don't think appeals to the kind of people who want to do invasions/counter-invasions. It's so much easier to just become a bellcop or ratbro and get your duels on that way. Of course, the dragon covenant is right at the end of the game and I guess is mostly for NG+ players. That would be fine, if the blue/red covenants actually worked. It's an especially bad arrangement at early NG levels... Way of Blue is available right from the start, and Sentinels shortly thereafter, but invasions are really rare at that point, and the Blood covenant is still some way off. It feels like they wanted early-level PvP but botched it up with how hard access to the prerequisites (orbs especially) is. Thus, there are few invasions, and even fewer Sentinel counter-invasions.
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May 17, 2014 15:00
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Rudager posted:If you dont know, there's also a setting to turn of region locking for online play, it's on by default. Actually I've been wondering about that. I'm tempted to switch it off to maximize the amount of multiplayer I get to do, but I'm worried I'll be inviting even more lag than I'm already seeing. Then again since I'm already seeing the lag it probably can't get much worse, right?
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May 17, 2014 15:05
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Internet Kraken posted:Now if the arena is supposed to be some "serious" pvp place fine. The issue is its the only good way to get cracked red eye orbs. If you want to dickwraith, you need orbs. So that right there kills a bunch of fun gimmick builds, which sucks since gimmick dickwraiths are the best ones. I did; you didn't.
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May 17, 2014 15:11
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Opposing Farce posted:Actually I've been wondering about that. I'm tempted to switch it off to maximize the amount of multiplayer I get to do, but I'm worried I'll be inviting even more lag than I'm already seeing. Then again since I'm already seeing the lag it probably can't get much worse, right? Yeah, it absolutely can get worse. Don't turn it on.
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May 17, 2014 15:12
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Manatee Cannon posted:I did; you didn't. Then you clearly need to work on your reading comprehension. No poo poo the serious PvP place is going to be full of all the tryhard poo poo. The problem, as I clearly outlined, is that being forced to do serious PvP to do any invasion stuff means you can't gimmick build. That's the issue. If you could completely ignore the arena and still dickwraith, nobody would care about it being full of havelyn hexers. You have to deal with that to get invasions going though, which forces you to towards the homogenized builds just to compete.
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May 17, 2014 15:14
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Internet Kraken posted:Then you clearly need to work on your reading comprehension. No poo poo the serious PvP place is going to be full of all the tryhard poo poo. The problem, as I clearly outlined, is that being forced to do serious PvP to do any invasion stuff means you can't gimmick build. That's the issue. If you could completely ignore the arena and still dickwraith, nobody would care about it being full of havelyn hexers. You have to deal with that to get invasions going though, which forces you to towards the homogenized builds just to compete. What you said is at the very best tangentially related to what I did. All you did (and continue to do) was complain about how invading people is hard now and that's the problem with all PvP forever. You are really fixated on the fact you can't have a red eye orb but that doesn't mean everything revolves around that loss. Having a red eye orb wouldn't stop people from having tryhard equipment, if anything the constant threat of unblockable invasion would A)drive a lot of people away from the game and B)force the people that stay and play online to use more PvP oriented equipment. What you really seem to want is to kill under equipped people with little effort. More power to you if that's your thing but the scarcity of cracked eye orbs has nothing to do with how people choose their loadout when it comes to PvP.
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May 17, 2014 15:29
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Internet Kraken posted:Well that's kind of the problem; there are tons of different weapons and builds you can use, but there are ones that are WAY better for PvP. quote:Thus, if you want to compete you have too bring your own top tier gear. Why wouldn't you? "My weapon is +8 that should be good enough" Maybe. But, I doubt it. "Hey that naked guy is using Velstadt's Hammer. Boy I'm screwe-" No you're not. If you're prepared. quote:Which means going a specific build. quote:Your gimping yourself in terms of damage if you don't use an infused weapon because scaling sucks. quote:You need to use a weapon that has a good moveset to accommodate for lag  quote:otherwise you'll lose a bunch of fights due to latency. The amount of PvP fights I've lost due to lag I can count on one hand. quote:Now if the arena is supposed to be some "serious" pvp place fine. quote:The issue is its the only good way to get cracked red eye orbs. quote:If you want to dickwraith, you need orbs. quote:So that right there kills a bunch of fun gimmick builds, which sucks since gimmick dickwraiths are the best ones. I've gotten my rear end handed to me by plenty of fun gimmick builds. Hell I run one myself really. I invade in Earthen Peak with a full Grave Warden outfit with a Manikin head. But the thing is, that's not where it stops. I will admit to the BoB covenant ranking up requirements being absurd and half-way broken, but that's no reason to proclaim the death of PvP.
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May 17, 2014 15:32
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Internet Kraken posted:That actually makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Pharos was known for helping people by building random poo poo, and he obviously created Doors of Pharos for Grym after humans forced them underground. The Gutter is supposed to be a refuge for the outcasts of Drangleic, and he's the only person in the lore that would build such a thing. Then something went wrong and it turned into a ramshackle shithole. I'd guess he started to turn undead and lost his mind, and as a result his crafting skills degraded further and further. So the Gutter is just barely held together, and then Black Gulch is filled with nothing but statues because that's all he could make as his mind degraded even more. i think all 4 of them are showing traits of ds1 lords. makes me think the great souls they have are the lord souls from lord vessel, vendrick took it from lordan, smashed it up in the basement in majula and handed up the souls to his best bros. explains why all of them have another soul in ng+ which reference the old lords. they all show traits of lords, the duke aldia for example, cleary got seath's and it started to take over his mind, making wacky monsters and such and he even went about transfering his mind/soul into a dragon (only thing im not sure on is if the dragon strung up at freja's was him before freja loved him way too much or if he is the AD in dragon's aerie, the AD is a construct anyhow) old iron king has gwyn's, lost sinner has the witch's... the cat tells you that the lost sinner tried to rekindle the first flame which if i recall the witch tried to do too. (i think? im at work and my ds lore is getting fuzzy) but then vendrick locks up the lost sinner for attempting to rekindle the flame. and yeah rotten got nito's, started wanting to care for the dead while losing his mind. i like the idea he is pharros. just gotta figure out who lost sinner and old iron king were before the souls hosed with their minds. Vikar Jerome fucked around with this message at 15:36 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 15:33
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Manatee Cannon posted:What you really seem to want is to kill under equipped people with little effort. That doesn't seem to be what he's saying at all. If you want to do a gimmick invasion build - by definition probably underpowered - you're still forced to compete in the arena versus people with carefully twinked out optimal equipment, because if you don't, you can't get any cracked eye orbs and you can't invade. That's the problem. If you could get cracked eye orbs without having to do that, you could do your underpowered gimmick invasions all day and probably lose a lot, but have fun while doing it. Bottlenecking invasions behind this super-tryhard arena thing prevents that from happening. Stokes posted:Titchy sells them for 10k in NG+, which as far as I know, is chump change by then. The problem with that is the "NG+" part. I feel like From wanted PvP at NG, but it doesn't end up working out that way.
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May 17, 2014 15:34
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:That doesn't seem to be what he's saying at all. If you want to do a gimmick invasion build - by definition probably underpowered - you're still forced to compete in the Arena versus people with carefully twinked out optimal equipment, because if you don't, you can't get any cracked eye orbs and you can't invade. That's the problem. If you could get cracked eye orbs without having to do that, you could do your underpowered gimmick invasions all day and probably lose a lot, but have fun while doing it. Bottlenecking invasions behind this super-tryhard arena thing prevents that from happening. I don't understand why this convo isn't taking into consideration buying orbs in ng+? Hyper Crab Tank posted:The problem with that is the "NG+" part. I feel like From wanted PvP at NG, but it doesn't end up working out that way. Seems pretty obvious they wanted NG pvp confined to the pvp areas, for the most part.
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May 17, 2014 15:36
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Stokes posted:The amount of PvP fights I've lost due to lag I can count on one hand. Congratulations on your luck. I get murdered by phantom range all the loving time. quote:Titchy sells them for 10k in NG+, which as far as I know, is chump change by then.
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May 17, 2014 15:40
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voltron lion force posted:Seems pretty obvious they wanted NG pvp confined to the pvp areas, for the most part. The first covenant you encounter (aside from Champions) being the Way of Blue, and then the Sentinels, kind of contradicts that. They clearly felt it was important to give players a defense against being invaded early on - but why would they do that, if they intended PvP to only happen in Grave of Saints/Doors of Pharros/the Belfries? Invasions are supposed to be kind of a thing in Dark Souls, but they're also crippled at NG so it doesn't really end up working out.
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May 17, 2014 15:40
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:The first covenant you encounter (aside from Champions) being the Way of Blue, and then the Sentinels, kind of contradicts that. They clearly felt it was important to give players a defense against being invaded early on - but why would they do that, if they intended PvP to only happen in Grave of Saints/Doors of Pharros/the Belfries? Invasions are supposed to be kind of a thing in Dark Souls, but they're also crippled at NG so it doesn't really end up working out. The covenant isn't well thought out? Why would they only allow orbs to be bought in ng+ if they wanted people to invade in ng?
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May 17, 2014 15:43
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:That doesn't seem to be what he's saying at all. Considering his constant, unending complaint is how he wishes he could invade people forever I disagree. He wants to use the red eye orb to invade unsuspecting people rather than people that are set up and waiting for him, his choice of gear is irrelevant. Either way it has nothing to do with how well the equipment is balanced and never did. Even if they gave you a red eye orb as soon as you reached Majula that would not change the way Avelyn works, or that Haval's armor has better defense, or that hexes are great. People would use them either way, and if anything you'd run into it more since you can't avoid invasions. Not that any of this equipment even shows up until ng+ where you can in fact just buy as many cracked eye orbs as you want, negating his entire point in the process.
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May 17, 2014 15:45
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voltron lion force posted:The covenant isn't well thought out? Why would they only allow orbs to be bought in ng+ if they wanted people to invade in ng? That's the point! The red/blue covenants aren't well thought out. The fact that they didn't make orbs more accessible in NG is part of the problem. They put these invasion-counterinvasion-centric covenants near the beginning of the game, and sell you on the idea that invading or defending others from invasions is the cool way to PvP while doing PvE stuff, but they didn't put enough thought into it or didn't test it enough or whatever, because what they built doesn't work out. Also, consider why the arena exists at all: If From intended your primary source of cracked eye orbs to be just buying them, why go to the trouble of implementing the arena? That's a huge investment for something they didn't intend people to use.
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May 17, 2014 15:46
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:That's the point! The red/blue covenants aren't well thought out. The fact that they didn't make orbs more accessible in NG is part of the problem. They put these invasion-counterinvasion-centric covenants near the beginning of the game, and sell you on the idea that invading or defending others from invasions is the cool way to PvP while doing PvE stuff, but they didn't put enough thought into it or didn't test it enough or whatever, because what they built doesn't work out. Maybe I'm confusing your point with the other guy's point, but I'm just saying that invasions aren't gated by the arena. Its still fun, and saves you the trouble of having to buy orbs, but its not necessary.
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May 17, 2014 15:50
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Stokes posted:Dickwraithing isn't possible anymore. I could respond to more specific parts of your post, but the main issue here is this. We're talking about diffrenent kinds of PvP here. Dickwraithing is possible. Its harder to get going, you can manage your SM well enough to still have a lot of options for invasions in NG. The only obstacle to doing this is acquiring red eye orbs, hence the arena issue. You need to win fights, and the only way you're going to reliably win fights with any kind of efficiency is by using top tier gear. You say you've lost to gimmick builds but every gimmick build I've fought in the arena has failed miserably. Not because I played better, but just because they were at such a huge disadvantage due to the weapons they were using. Winning a fight with a Great Scythe for example is basically impossible. voltron lion force posted:I don't understand why this convo isn't taking into consideration buying orbs in ng+? Then why is Way of the Blue right at the start of the game? Why is the Blue Sentinels one of the first covenants you can find? There's nothing to indicate PvP was supposed to be restricted to NG+. Manatee Cannon posted:What you said is at the very best tangentially related to what I did. All you did (and continue to do) was complain about how invading people is hard now and that's the problem with all PvP forever. You are really fixated on the fact you can't have a red eye orb but that doesn't mean everything revolves around that loss. Having a red eye orb wouldn't stop people from having tryhard equipment, if anything the constant threat of unblockable invasion would A)drive a lot of people away from the game and B)force the people that stay and play online to use more PvP oriented equipment. No its not. You said that people in the arena are going to use top tier gear because that's how pvp goes in these games. I responded by saying that its obvious serious PvPers will have top tier gear, but in past Souls games you didn't have to deal with other PvPers just to do your own invasions. You could completely ignore the serious PvP and have fun with whatever you wanted to do in casual invasions. Now you can't do that. That's the problem. I was pretty clear about this! quote:What you really seem to want is to kill under equipped people with little effort. More power to you if that's your thing but the scarcity of cracked eye orbs has nothing to do with how people choose their loadout when it comes to PvP.  What the gently caress are you talking about? First, I have never said I wanted unfair fights where I butcher under equipped players. In fact I've been pretty vocal about hating that kind of pvp! Second, yes the scarcity of red eye orbs does effect the loadout of people in pvp, and I just spent the last few posts explaining why. Again, work on your reading comprehension.voltron lion force posted:Maybe I'm confusing your point with the other guy's point, but I'm just saying that invasions aren't gated by the arena. Its still fun, and saves you the trouble of having to buy orbs, but its not necessary. Outside of NG+ they are. Manatee Cannon posted:Considering his constant, unending complaint is how he wishes he could invade people forever I disagree. He wants to use the red eye orb to invade unsuspecting people rather than people that are set up and waiting for him, his choice of gear is irrelevant. Now you're just making poo poo up. quote:Either way it has nothing to do with how well the equipment is balanced and never did. Even if they gave you a red eye orb as soon as you reached Majula that would not change the way Avelyn works, or that Haval's armor has better defense, or that hexes are great. People would use them either way, and if anything you'd run into it more since you can't avoid invasions. Look you clearly don't know poo poo about pvp because basically all of this is completely wrong. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 15:54 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 15:51
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Internet Kraken posted:
Oh, I read it. You're just wrong. edit: alright, I'm goading you on a little here I apologize.
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May 17, 2014 15:54
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Internet Kraken posted:Outside of NG+ they are. Well obviously, but why are you only considering NG? You think you can't do a gimmick build in NG+ or what?
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May 17, 2014 15:57
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Internet Kraken posted:I could respond to more specific parts of your post, but the main issue here is this. We're talking about diffrenent kinds of PvP here. Dickwraithing is possible. Its harder to get going, you can manage your SM well enough to still have a lot of options for invasions in NG. The only obstacle to doing this is acquiring red eye orbs, hence the arena issue. You need to win fights, and the only way you're going to reliably win fights with any kind of efficiency is by using top tier gear. Define what you mean by 'top tier gear.'
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May 17, 2014 16:05
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You know, orbs being so hard to get in base game seems intentional. They told people that you could always be invaded, and their playerbase called them assholes. They compromised by making invasions in the base game a pain and turned NG+ into a meat-grinder. Seems pretty simple, really.
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May 17, 2014 16:08
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Flytrap posted:You know, orbs being so hard to get in base game seems intentional. They told people that you could always be invaded, and their playerbase called them assholes. They compromised by making invasions in the base game a pain and turned NG+ into a meat-grinder. Seems pretty simple, really. Problem is I never get invaded in NG+ either. Besides blue invaders as long as I have enough sin. Invading being compleatly pointless makes it feel like charity work for blue sentinels really.
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May 17, 2014 16:10
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Flytrap posted:You know, orbs being so hard to get in base game seems intentional. They told people that you could always be invaded, and their playerbase called them assholes. They compromised by making invasions in the base game a pain and turned NG+ into a meat-grinder. Seems pretty simple, really. Well yeah, of course. If you were handed an infinite use invasion item in Majula or whatever early on most people would at least try invading at least once. Which becomes everyone being invaded all the time. Some people might like the idea but way, way more would be against it and likely play offline or give up entirely. The always on invasion mechanic is the real reason we have no full red eye orb. I prefer the Dark Souls 1 system, personally but I do hope they keep being able to converse with NPCs while hollow because that was dumb.
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May 17, 2014 16:12
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Stokes posted:Define what you mean by 'top tier gear.' Stokes posted:Every weapon is viable for pvp. (You want to bring up the ladle now don't you.) It's how you optimize your usage of it. Top tier pvp involves rulers sword+1m souls/grand lance/santier's spear/syan's halberd/chaos blade backed up with dual avelyns/monastery scimitar/batstaff. Spells are great magic barrier/resonant weapon/great resonant soul/wrath of the gods or maybe a heal. Equipment is full Havels with maybe the smelter demon helmet. I spend a lot of time pvping in Heides and the Pursuers area and these are the most common builds
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May 17, 2014 16:18
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Lalus posted:Top tier pvp involves rulers sword+1m souls/grand lance/santier's spear/syan's halberd/chaos blade backed up with dual avelyns/monastery scimitar/batstaff. Spells are great magic barrier/resonant weapon/great resonant soul/wrath of the gods or maybe a heal. Equipment is full Havels with maybe the smelter demon helmet. I spend a lot of time pvping in Heides and the Pursuers area and these are the most common builds Defenders Greatsword with Sunlight blade on it is very common too.
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May 17, 2014 16:21
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Everything is viable. Unless you wanna win.
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May 17, 2014 16:24
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Aaagh, I was doing so well on Executioner's Chariot but then he had to go and trap me in a doorway. 
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May 17, 2014 16:31
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ChaosArgate posted:Aaagh, I was doing so well on Executioner's Chariot but then he had to go and trap me in a doorway. It's your fault for going into one of them. Dodge roll under his wheel spikes or bust. 
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May 17, 2014 16:32
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King of Solomon posted:Congratulations on your luck. I get murdered by phantom range all the loving time. Complaining about phantom range is really dumb. Such things are consistent; i.e. once you've fought a katana user you (should) know the range. Because they are consistent you are able to dodge. If you're having trouble it means you're not actually learning. Lalus posted:Top tier pvp involves rulers sword+1m souls/grand lance/santier's spear/syan's halberd/chaos blade backed up with dual avelyns/monastery scimitar/batstaff. Spells are great magic barrier/resonant weapon/great resonant soul/wrath of the gods or maybe a heal. Equipment is full Havels with maybe the smelter demon helmet. I spend a lot of time pvping in Heides and the Pursuers area and these are the most common builds I invader at the top tier SM and do arena stuff there in both ng and ng+, and I rarely see that poo poo. Avelyn's common but dual ain't, HExes are common but bat foggers are relatively rare, I rarely see people use Ruler's Sword, and Havel's/Smelter's people are relatively rare (and in a lot of cases they don't have it upgraded so they don't have that much damage reduction).
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May 17, 2014 16:34
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Lalus posted:Top tier pvp involves rulers sword+1m souls/grand lance/santier's spear/syan's halberd/chaos blade backed up with dual avelyns/monastery scimitar/batstaff. Spells are great magic barrier/resonant weapon/great resonant soul/wrath of the gods or maybe a heal. Equipment is full Havels with maybe the smelter demon helmet. I spend a lot of time pvping in Heides and the Pursuers area and these are the most common builds That's great, but my question is for Internet Kraken who I guess is constantly running into all that stuff in the arenas while keeping his SM as low as possible.
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May 17, 2014 16:35
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King of Solomon posted:It's your fault for going into one of them. Dodge roll under his wheel spikes or bust. gently caress that, he doesn't do much damage; charge the sunnova bitch! [blacko101]
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May 17, 2014 16:35
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King of Solomon posted:It's your fault for going into one of them. Dodge roll under his wheel spikes or bust. He knocked me back into one. This was after I closed the gate on him. I thought he was gonna stomp his front feet so I rolled into them for iframes but he charged forward instead and stayed in the doorway. Oh well, you learn something on every death.
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May 17, 2014 16:38
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I still haven't managed to get an arena fight to go on any of my characters, but that's probably because I only wait a minute or two before moving on, and all the other covenants you can run around and do whatever instead.
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May 17, 2014 16:38
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Genocyber posted:Complaining about phantom range is really dumb. Such things are consistent; i.e. once you've fought a katana user you (should) know the range. Because they are consistent you are able to dodge. If you're having trouble it means you're not actually learning. Lag means that nothing is consistent.
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May 17, 2014 16:38
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