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Yaws posted:I assumed Padme was dull because Natalie Portman was given banal lines and poor direction? Am I wrong? Yeah, sorry.
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May 19, 2014 17:09
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The main trouble is that people are leaving their criticisms at 'it was dull', where 'dull' is just a substitute word for 'bad'. So we're stuck in the same 'it's bad because it's bad' morass, where comments are youtube-level and people freak out when pushed to articulate an actual opinion.
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May 19, 2014 17:18
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Is it ok if we point out the silly nonsense parts of the movie with out typing seven paragraphs? So, I think it's funny when Obiwan says "Sith Lords are our specialitaly?" when both times they fought them they lost and almost died. Is that ok?
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May 19, 2014 17:25
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Jerk McJerkface posted:Is it ok if we point out the silly nonsense parts of the movie with out typing seven paragraphs? Yes, I don't know why you're so upset at other people posting words. You don't have to read them. You probably missed SMG's funny observation that Anakin starts talking about how Naboo is great because there's no sand, immediately after Padme talked about lying in the sand on Naboo.
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May 19, 2014 17:28
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Tender Bender posted:Yes, I don't know why you're so upset at other people posting words. You don't have to read them. Oh, I got it. I haven't muted SMG because I think it's absolutely important to listen to other opinions. Especially ones that are so incredibly different from mine.
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May 19, 2014 17:33
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Jerk McJerkface posted:Is it ok if we point out the silly nonsense parts of the movie with out typing seven paragraphs? I believe even the prequels' most ardent defenders would acknowledge that they contained a lot of silliness. Jar Jar blew up a tank with what amounts to a pie in the face gag for instance. Edit: I would like to make clear I do not consider silliness a bad thing. Sprecherscrow fucked around with this message at 17:55 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 17:52
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Jerk McJerkface posted:Is it ok if we point out the silly nonsense parts of the movie with out typing seven paragraphs? Writing full paragraphs is encouraged, but you're making headway here by using words to explain how the film caused your feelings. The main issue is using 'silly' as another substitute for 'bad', instead of as a bridge to some greater point.
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May 19, 2014 17:53
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Tender Bender posted:You probably missed SMG's funny observation that Anakin starts talking about how Naboo is great because there's no sand, immediately after Padme talked about lying in the sand on Naboo. quote:PADMÉ
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May 19, 2014 18:00
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Vogon Poet posted:That's not really an accurate description of the scene. I would read his sentence as saying that sand is coarse and irritating, but everything here is smooth (including the sand!). Either way it's a matter of semantics, I think we both agree that it's not a flaw of the movie, but a flaw in Anakin's game.
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May 19, 2014 19:08
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Not completely related to the discussion, but it looks like AICN buried its axe with the Clone Wars series. http://www.aintitcool.com/node/67362 It's interesting how Lucas passing the torch really ignited popular interest in this franchise again. Just don't read the terrible comments.
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May 19, 2014 19:17
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Tender Bender posted:I would read his sentence as saying that sand is coarse and irritating, but everything here is smooth (including the sand!). Either way it's a matter of semantics, I think we both agree that it's not a flaw of the movie, but a flaw in Anakin's game. Yeah, I guess if you interpret his "everything" in a very literal sense it would mean that. I definitely agree with your second sentence here.
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May 19, 2014 19:28
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Hbomberguy posted:Yeah, sorry. What about Padme do you find so compelling? She is not written well. Natalie Portman gave a bad performance. She delivered bad lines poorly. Does she represent the fall of democracy to you? The loss of innocence? Do you enjoy the light-hearted patter between her and Anakin? You're certainly not shy about arrogantly demanding people flesh out their opinions, so let's hear your reasons homeboy. Do you have a crush on Natalie Portman? Is that was this is about? I can only assume someone who defends a lovely character so voraciously is doing so out of some base desire.
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May 19, 2014 19:38
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:What about Padme do you find so compelling? She is not written well. Natalie Portman gave a bad performance. She delivered bad lines poorly. Does she represent the fall of democracy to you? The loss of innocence? Do you enjoy the light-hearted patter between her and Anakin? You're certainly not shy about arrogantly demanding people flesh out their opinions, so let's hear your reasons homeboy. For me, it's not so much about being a fan of Portman, but I am genuinely amazed at how such a good actress is even capable of delivering lines so poorly. It's as if she read the lines for the first time after Lucas shouted 'action', being sleep-deprived and on medication. There isn't even a hint of her usual charisma and screen-presence in Padmé. To see what a natural talent she really is, there is Léon - The Professional for evidence. That was her first screen-role. Yeah. And she didn't win that Oscar for nothing ( Black Swan ). I just don't understand how Lucas managed to drain all that talent out of her. I am always willing to defend Portman as an actress, but even I can't defend Padmé as a character, or Portman in that particular role. With that said, I recently re-watched Episode I. It wasn't as bad as I remembered it to be. It wasn't good by any margin, it was just painfully mediocre. A lot of it has to do with the convoluted, politically heavy plot, which kind of drains the focus of the movie ( the origin-story of Anakin Skywalker ). Jake Lloyd wasn't as annoying in the role as I recalled, either - I don't understand the amount of hate he got, as his portrayal of an over-eager kid was.. Well.. Perfectly adequate. Jar-Jar Binks was about as awful as I remembered, though, and the whole Gungan-city sequence is so horrible that I just don't know what went through their ( or George's ) minds. Anyway, the pod-racing scene and the 'duel of fates' were still great. Overall, it's a better film than Episode 2 by a good margin.
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May 19, 2014 19:57
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I can't wait for more info about Episode 7 to come out. Every time I check into this thread, it's just a continuation of the circle-jerk arguments over the prequels. We should have separate threads for the prequels, and for A New Hope through Episode 7. You can throw the Ewok movie and Caravan of Courage into the latter, and the cartoons and wookiepedia garbage into the former.
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May 19, 2014 21:01
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JJ's movie will likely be heavily influenced by the prequels so I don't think it is a waste or anything to talk about them.
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May 19, 2014 21:07
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We should have separate threads for every scene of every movie.
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May 19, 2014 21:16
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The context added to the original trilogy by knowledge of the prequels is good and enjoyment-enhancing. If Episode VII "ignores" or seems like an apology for the prequels, that would be an act of cowardice and a bad sign. Fans by and large hate the prequels, but I promise you that what the fans actually want, let alone what they think they want, is even worse. That being said, a separate thread for news of Episode VII and other sequels would be a pretty good idea because it's clearly separate from the kind of critical circle-jerk of decades-old movies we perpetuate here. It's not like we're going to run out of threads or anything.
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May 19, 2014 21:22
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Expanding on the next part in the prequel edits (named together as Fall of the Jedi) comes their treatment of Episode II. And this is where it gets weird: I actually quite like this cut of II....a lot. It still has to work with the turd the actual movie was but the cuts here are more substantive than the edits of Episode I. -The romance subplot is heavily reworked by removing nearly all the "romantic" dialogue. A number of the cut scenes with Padme's family are inserted and edited a bit that brings quite a bit of humanity to Padme's character. Her family points out that she's acting differently around Anakin. The two of them still banter in the field (but without the rolling around) and at the dinner table but without all the crap lines. You get the sense that they are forming a deeper connection. Conversely, much of Anakin's creepiness (which mostly stemmed from his awful dialogue) is mitigated. The boathouse/kiss/sand line and fireplace scenes are completely removed as is his borderline obsessive Coruscant dialogue. He comes off genuinely as a Jedi protector (with an existing relationship/friendship) who is recently tormented by thoughts of his mother's suffering. They bond as they spend time together and her decision to go to Tatooine for him plays as a true step forward. In all, the whole romance angle of the movie is significantly improved (which I didn't think was possible). Other notable improvements: -The whole asteroid chase is cut. I was kind of sad to see it go because I love the sound effects but that's all the sequence is, just a place for whats-his-name-at-ILM to go nuts. The sequence now goes directly from Kamino (tracking sensor in place) to Obi-Wan following Jango to Geonosis to Obi-Wan sneaking around gathering info. -The entire droid factory sequence is cut (as is, incidentally, every mention of the R2 droid being R2D2 and the protocol droid being C3PO). It's replaced by a cut scene which features Padme & Anakin having a sit down with Dooku and Jango. They attempt to negotiate Obi-Wan's release as well as their own safe passage. Dooku uses the same kind of language as during Obi-Wan's prison scene and sends them off to the arena for not joining his cause. -The arena is more or less the same but without any of 3PO's shots. The rest of the movie plays the same except Yoda's fight is cut completely. Dooku cuts Anakin's arm off and turns (in the original to see Yoda) to look off-camera where the scene cuts immediately to Padme & Clones rushing onto the platform. -Yoda and Mace's meditations are nearly completely removed, as is their conversation in the temple. It's replaced by another deleted scene with just Obi-Wan and Windu where the overall tone from Windu is much more positive about Anakin's state-of-mind/attitude than what's presented in the original movie. Overall, Obi-Wan comes off much more disparaging of his padawan in this cut of Episode II. Probably to set up Anakin's jealously/grievances in III. -The whole dart mystery is cut out nearly completely as is Yoda's youngling scene. It's inferred the droids in the Jedi Temple identify the source of the dart so no Coruscant diner scene. The aforementioned Obi-Wan/Windu scene also provides all the motivation needed for his trip to Kamino. Some side effects of the editing: -The Coruscant bounty hunter/speeder chase is still overly long. This edit removes the power-coupling bit but without that little bit, the whole sequence just drags. All-in-all, this cut of Episode II is thoroughly more enjoyable than I expected. The deleted scenes, added back in, are much better than the scenes they replace at achieving the same message.
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May 19, 2014 21:32
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Changing the way the dart is identified results in a much different message.
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May 19, 2014 21:48
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:What about Padme do you find so compelling? She is not written well. Natalie Portman gave a bad performance. She delivered bad lines poorly. Does she represent the fall of democracy to you? The loss of innocence? Do you enjoy the light-hearted patter between her and Anakin? You're certainly not shy about arrogantly demanding people flesh out their opinions, so let's hear your reasons homeboy. Since you assert that she delivered bad lines poorly and this assertion is 100% objectively true, I have no other recourse than to admit I am whiteknighting an actress in the hope she will read this thread and gently caress me. Just kidding, im gay. Padme is a bad actor. Notice I said Padme, and not Natalie Portman. We see this in the Phantom Menace when Qui-Gon sees through her disguise early on and makes light of it to her face, and when she bows before Boss Nass but still can't help smirking. In AOTC, Padme asserting 'I'm a senator!' (the underlying words being 'this is how I think senators act, so I must adopt their act!') is a hilarious line. She doesn't know how to act so she keeps pretending to be different vague roles - Peasant, Queen (notice the obscenely ridiculous getup she wears as queen that apes some other culture's iconography, masking the lack of much of anything else underneath), Senator, Lover (the scene in 3 where she talks about 'fixing up the baby's room' and gets in a tizzy about Anakin's comments about loving her are great too for this reason!). When all these roles fall away, as she stops being Queen, the Republic morphs into something new, and her lover turns evil and tries to murder her, she mysteriously dies. Presumably because there was nothing else left underneath. "Natalie Portman gave a bad performance to bad lines" is just not something I agree with. It's a misreading of the character that you're so sure is correct the only possible reason anyone could see anything else is that they're sexually attracted to the actress. I feel kinda bad for you, if that's the way you see things. As a gay techno-futurist, the only performance you'll see me whiteknighting for those reasons is Dexter Jettster's.
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May 19, 2014 22:27
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Arthe Xavier posted:For me, it's not so much about being a fan of Portman, but I am genuinely amazed at how such a good actress is even capable of delivering lines so poorly. It's as if she read the lines for the first time after Lucas shouted 'action', being sleep-deprived and on medication. There isn't even a hint of her usual charisma and screen-presence in Padmé. This makes sense if she was playing a non-charismatic character.
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May 20, 2014 02:05
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When you consider that Padme chooses to wear a skintight leather dominatrix outfit to a nighttime fireplace chat with a guy who is dangerously obsessed with her, while planning to tell him she doesn't want to be with him, yeah it seems like she's as autistic as Anakin is.
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May 20, 2014 02:16
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Tender Bender posted:When you consider that Padme chooses to wear a skintight leather dominatrix outfit to a nighttime fireplace chat with a guy who is dangerously obsessed with her, while planning to tell him she doesn't want to be with him, yeah it seems like she's as autistic as Anakin is. True, and why wouldn't she be? She doesn't seem to have any friends or even aquaintances outside of her work. In the first movie it seems like she spends all her time either as a ridiculous doll-person or pretending to be her own assistant. She never had any kind of normal life.
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May 20, 2014 02:20
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She's the quintessential politician in a democracy, elected a young age before forming any independent identity (much like Anakin and the Jedi needing to recruit toddlers so they can mold them into Jedi-ness from the get go), constantly becoming a poor imitation of whatever she thinks is needed/desired by the current circumstances. This is why she's an assertive politician and action hero in AotC but nearly agency-less and dependent in RotS. It's another symptom of the diseased republic, a leader so underdetermined that even Anakin, who is superficially opposed to her beliefs and lifestyle, can still project all his desires onto her.
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May 20, 2014 02:51
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Benedick Cuckold posted:
Lucas had a cameo in MIB, was an unofficial "creative consultant" for that franchise, and friends with Barry Sonnenfeld. Does anything about the space diner fit into the pre-existing star wars mythos of the original trilogy? It's more of a MIB thing to add tongue in cheek aliens in quasi earth world environments. Star Wars took on an entirely different tone post Lucas participation in MIB. Look at TPM/AoC and MIB 1 side by side and tell me he didn't lift the atmosphere of MIB. Even the Mos Eisley Cantina in the original trilogy didn't have that quirky self awareness to them like the space diner scene. Episode I and II should be called MIB 2 and MIB 3. Ewan Mcgregor and Liam Neeson are Will Smith and TLJ without the comedy. That's what Jar Jar was intended to be except Lucas is a poor writer. It's obvious what he really wanted.
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May 20, 2014 04:03
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The real question is, why does Y Kant Ozma Diet repeatedly call me out in threads like a total internet badass, and then stop posting after I respond, and never take part in the rest of the discussion? Clearly, they want to have sex with me. Hey let's make it a twofer, Milky Moor are you feeling saucy enough to respond to my reading or are you just gonna keep whining about me in places you think I don't read? Come join the sausage fest.
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May 20, 2014 04:08
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Modus Operandi posted:Lucas had a cameo in MIB, was an unofficial "creative consultant" for that franchise, and friends with Barry Sonnenfeld. I don't see the comparison. Mos Eisley Cantina had a werewolf.
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May 20, 2014 04:43
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The space diner is only different from the cantina in that it's slightly more transparent as a lift from old movies. Obi-Wan's entire arc there is an old-timey detective story, where a guy investigates a crime, gets beat up a lot and is led down the wrong path. The only thing it was missing was a beautiful but double-crossing dame to tearfully point a blaster at him near the end. The more obvious jokey and referential stuff was something fans objected to in the prequels, because they call attention to the whole not-real-ness of the whole enterprise. But Star Wars runs on old movie logic, so of course there are space diners and drag races with snarky announcers and so on. (Seriously lots of fans hate that two-headed announcer guy but I think he rules, and not just because it's Greg Proops.)
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May 20, 2014 06:24
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I think it's because fans see Star Wars as a complete world with no seams. When this is challenged by being reminded it's only a story (often by using such blasphemy as storytelling), this is read as a problem. Some of Star Trek Reboot's jokes and joke-y references really wind some fans up too. These people are bad fans. The Star Trek Reboots are funny (and also bad, but whatever).
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May 20, 2014 06:57
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Tuxedo Jack posted:I can't wait for more info about Episode 7 to come out. Every time I check into this thread, it's just a continuation of the circle-jerk arguments over the prequels. Wookiepedia's filth can stay hell away from Genndy Tartakovsky's Clone Wars.
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May 20, 2014 11:57
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euphronius posted:JJ's movie will likely be heavily influenced by the prequels so I don't think it is a waste or anything to talk about them. I think JJ is well aware of how poor the prequels are. Making the new films more in line with the original trilogy seems like a safer bet, in my opinion.
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May 20, 2014 12:12
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Doflamingo posted:I think JJ is well aware of how poor the prequels are. Making the new films more in line with the original trilogy seems like a safer bet, in my opinion. And what exactly would "more in line" entail?
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May 20, 2014 12:33
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computer parts posted:And what exactly would "more in line" entail? Traditional hero's journey with a heavy dose of sticking it to The Man. The third death star (or similar Imperial superweapon).
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May 20, 2014 12:57
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sassassin posted:Traditional hero's journey with a heavy dose of sticking it to The Man. Also: not lovely. Red Letter Media goes into further detail if it interests you, computer parts.
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May 20, 2014 13:04
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Doflamingo posted:Also: not lovely. Red Letter Media goes into further detail if it interests you, computer parts. I believe almost everyone in the thread is familiar with RLM's review, and the thread have also dissected the prequels far beyond that.
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May 20, 2014 13:13
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Doflamingo posted:Also: not lovely. Red Letter Media goes into further detail if it interests you, computer parts. What does "not lovely" mean? Don't tell me to do the equivalent of googling Ron Paul, I want to hear it from you.
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May 20, 2014 13:16
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computer parts posted:What does "not lovely" mean? Don't tell me to do the equivalent of googling Ron Paul, I want to hear it from you. Script that makes you want to hurl, one of the most obnoxious mascot characters in film history, meandering, senseless politics, incredibly uneven performances as a result of shoddy direction, a fantastic world completely wasted thanks to uninspired cinematography and so much more!
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May 20, 2014 13:26
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Bongo Bill posted:Changing the way the dart is identified results in a much different message. I'm not sure how. In the original II cut, Obi-Wan is unable to find a source for the dart and goes to the diner for a friend's help. The friend advises it's a Kamino dart and that the Kaminos are cloners and are big on money. He then proceeds to attempt to locate Kamino in the Jedi Archive. In this cut of II, the dart is identified by the droids as a Kamino dart and Obi-Wan proceeds to attempt to locate Kamino in the Jedi Archive. I don't see how eliminating the diner scene alters the message.
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May 20, 2014 13:39
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Doflamingo posted:Script that makes you want to hurl, one of the most obnoxious mascot characters in film history, meandering, senseless politics, incredibly uneven performances as a result of shoddy direction, a fantastic world completely wasted thanks to uninspired cinematography and so much more! 
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May 20, 2014 14:36
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Lord Krangdar posted:I don't see the comparison.
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May 20, 2014 14:46
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