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Red Dragon's 33% off in the Steam daily deal. European Escalation and Airland Battle are 66% off.
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May 19, 2014 18:38
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Deptfordx posted:Soooo, all this talk of modding. Would an actual Warhammer 40k mod be possible with these tools? IF and ONLY if we get tools to get models in there is a possibility. The way the rules are written, GW's pretty strict about mixing stuff with other IP, so I'd err on the side of caution with reusing models. Other than that it wouldn't be the hardest thing to make a simple base to the game with the IG. Three or so heavy weapons, a special weapon team or two, infantry, shock infantry, Chimaeras, a Leman Russ or four, some of the lighter tanks and probably valkyries, vendettas and hydras. That'd probably be enough to make a game worth playing. On the plus side I've learned my lesson and if I'm doing it shoe's worry won't apply because screw perfect simulationism of a game system, what matters is making the game work in such a way to encourage the game to play in a way that fans expect it to and is fun and interesting for everyone. If the numbers play right then that's what matters.
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May 19, 2014 19:07
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Incidentally, as a games industry IP attorney, I'd point out that GW is one of the most litigious defenders of their IP of any company I've come across. I'd love Wargame:40K, but the minute a mod team announces that they're making a 40K mod, they're going to get a C&D letter.
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May 19, 2014 20:01
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Leif. posted:Incidentally, as a games industry IP attorney, I'd point out that GW is one of the most litigious defenders of their IP of any company I've come across. They can't get C&D'd if they release the mod at the time of announcement.
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May 19, 2014 20:04
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Leif. posted:Incidentally, as a games industry IP attorney, I'd point out that GW is one of the most litigious defenders of their IP of any company I've come across. So it seems. They're loving monsters 
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May 19, 2014 20:05
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Leif. posted:Incidentally, as a games industry IP attorney, I'd point out that GW is one of the most litigious defenders of their IP of any company I've come across. Really? It's gotten worse then. I announced and later released a mod with GW IP. Granted it was battlefleet gothic not 40k proper and they've since started making GBS threads out awful shovelware. (incidentally don't track down the battlefleet gothic mod for sins of a solar empire, it's awful) xthetenth fucked around with this message at 20:19 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 20:14
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Leif. posted:Incidentally, as a games industry IP attorney, I'd point out that GW is one of the most litigious defenders of their IP of any company I've come across. Can you provide examples of that? I hear that a lot, but the only factual thing I've seen is that GW allows all mods as long as they comply with their terms: GW property only, no mixing and matching, don't make money from it.
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May 19, 2014 20:41
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DatonKallandor posted:Can you provide examples of that? I hear that a lot, but the only factual thing I've seen is that GW allows all mods as long as they comply with their terms: GW property only, no mixing and matching, don't make money from it. Yeah, that's what I'd seen and abided by last time (to the point of doing some custom UI work to replace anything that could be considered mixing IP).
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May 19, 2014 20:48
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Nickiepoo posted:While we on the subject, what's the maths for HE only weapons damaging things with armour, is it even possible? At the rate of speed and altitude that helo's go at in theory the more modern MBT's should be able to engage them with KE.
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May 19, 2014 20:52
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The Abrams MPAT round and still-in-development AMP round have proximity fuze settings for engaging helicopters.
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May 19, 2014 21:06
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It's my understanding that the ATGMs that Pact tanks carry are technically capable of shooting at helos flying at roughly treetop level.
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May 19, 2014 21:16
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Isn't the Abrams canister round XM1028 also designed for anti-helicopter use?
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May 19, 2014 21:33
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Nickiepoo posted:While we on the subject, what's the maths for HE only weapons damaging things with armour, is it even possible? Machine guns and small-arms can both attack helicopters. Somewhere in this massive spreadsheet (which I believe is linked somewhere in the nearly-as-massive OP) is a high explosive damage table that will give you the following answer: Armor 1 offers no protection from high explosive damage compared to armor 0. On armored helicopters like the Hind, armor 1 offers 90% reduction of infantry small-arms fire. (Which can actually be a big deal if you blunder past an infantry squad.) On airplanes, which cannot be hit by small-arms (or AP or HEAT rounds) armor 1 is a "fluffy" attribute on planes like the A-10. (Note, however, that the armor 2 on the A-10's front and rear is far from fluffy, providing 60% damage mitigation versus enemy AA.) Speaking of charts and numbers: Shanakin posted:[Veterancy is] a multiplier. Although the files indicate they might actually still be using the ALB multipliers which were bigger.
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May 19, 2014 21:46
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So is the game worth it's reduced price for someone who hasn't really played the other two? Or should I wait for the summer sale in hopes that it will be reduced further?
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May 19, 2014 22:06
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xthetenth posted:Really? It's gotten worse then. I announced and later released a mod with GW IP. Granted it was battlefleet gothic not 40k proper and they've since started making GBS threads out awful shovelware. The problem with 40k in this game to be quite honest is that the infantry combat isn't very good in and of itself in RD and would probably get worse in a 40k setting where infantry combat is the main event(though imo still quite bad).
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May 19, 2014 22:32
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On the subject of future wars with stompy robots and big guns a mechwarrior/battletech mod would be the poo poo.
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May 19, 2014 22:41
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Something like a world war 2 setting would probably make the game more fun for me. I can't get into EE because it seems very much a matter of throwing masses of tanks at everything. Something to stretch infantry ranges out a bit further but with reduced firepower (like ww2 rifles) and reduce the dominance of tanks (like ww2 overarmored and undergunned designs and viability of field guns) would probably make the game more interesting to me. As it stands tanks just kill everything really fast with their variety of shell loadouts.
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May 19, 2014 22:47
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DatonKallandor posted:Can you provide examples of that? I hear that a lot, but the only factual thing I've seen is that GW allows all mods as long as they comply with their terms: GW property only, no mixing and matching, don't make money from it. Yep, i believe this is one scenario where GW actually seems to be reasonable. There was just released in the past few days a massive mod that converts Mount and Blade:Warband to the Warhammer Fantasy universe.
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May 19, 2014 22:49
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Nuramor posted:So is the game worth it's reduced price for someone who hasn't really played the other two? Or should I wait for the summer sale in hopes that it will be reduced further? If it looks interesting to you, grab it. I have a ridiculous number of hours logged and have no regrets. ALB had some crazy sales so you could almost certainly do better if you wait, but I think the game is worth it even at full price and it might be a while before it goes on sale again given it's only a month old.
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May 19, 2014 22:52
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Panzeh posted:The problem with 40k in this game to be quite honest is that the infantry combat isn't very good in and of itself in RD and would probably get worse in a 40k setting where infantry combat is the main event(though imo still quite bad). Then base it on epic. Change one word and it's got a focus on armor which the game does do well. Dig out a copy of imperial armor and the fans'll be happy. ~*baneblades*~  Honestly a lot of the infantry mechanics for warhammer can be handled by making Space Marines Then again I'm an imperial guard fanboy so I don't mind the notion of bombarding space Marines out of buildings.
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May 19, 2014 23:04
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Carefully husbanding your heavy tanks while throwing masses of conscripts into the maws of the enemy's artillery and bombers. Does this describe 1. Wargame or 2. WW2 There's a problem with WH40k in the Wargame engine which is that the super soldiers like Space Marines are worlds ahead of the cannon fodder such that they would need some kind of armour or hitpoint system (in an engine where death for an infantryman is a stray ironbomb away). This could be resolved and also create epic scale battles by having the super soldiers represented with individual units (ie vehicles with infantry animations so that they have hp and armour) while the cannon fodder remain conventional infantry squads. Enjoy fucked around with this message at 00:28 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 00:25
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Wargame, like Company of Heroes 2, is a more accurate depiction of the Imperial Guard than its actual subject matter.  I was leaning towards duplicating the Teukjeonsa 5 guys and 10 hp glitch and a small amount of armor. There's some issues with special weapons that might be best resolved by seeing what happens if I make plasma guns have the HEAT rule. It will require experimentation with solutions to see how the weird end of the unintentional ramifications scale. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 00:38 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 00:30
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The real problem is that a lot of Epic 40k units rely on deepstriking - the lack of paradropping units means there's no equivalent to use.
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May 20, 2014 01:00
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So hey, who wants to test that mod that xthethenth made?xthetenth posted:Yeah absolutely. I'll be on for a few hours.
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May 20, 2014 01:08
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I've seen a few people collecting ideas on a 40k mod on other sites and yeah, it'd work pretty well. Hell, for IG you'd pretty much get a full lineup except for the naval category.
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May 20, 2014 01:11
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xthetenth posted:Then base it on epic. Change one word and it's got a focus on armor which the game does do well. Dig out a copy of imperial armor and the fans'll be happy. ~*baneblades*~ Yeah, when i brought up a 40k mod I was thinking of the old Epic range, which would be much better suited for the engine.
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May 20, 2014 01:17
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Epic would be much better than base 40k, base 40k is too granular and infantry focused. Plus we could then obviate that whole melee combat thing. So, hypothetical: IF the variable for "is immune to AP" is completely separable from the armor values, then we should be able to make an infantry unit with armor values that affect only HE. We can then make [CLUS] HE only weapons such that they hit only the top armor, so we can recreate the effective utility of starcannon and whatnot as "anti infantry weapons that are really specialized in killing the heavy guys." Also since we should be able to created TAmmunitions with 0 HE 0 AP that do morale and/or stun damage, psykers are probably pretty doable.
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May 20, 2014 02:20
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That could definitely be interesting and would work nicely if it does work. I wonder if that use of the HEAT rule would work for killing one infantry HP no matter what.
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May 20, 2014 03:08
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This one's for Hob and friends. This version includes a modified version of the table exporter that produces a one file per instance in a format that's meant for the patch application mode. Just leave off the second argument to make it dump the .DAT file instead. Note that in this one you can't single out a specific ndfbin/table (yet) and it also takes multiple eternities to write out all those files, be patient. This will not produce files the patcher can actually use right now, it's a proof of concept only. In particular the "operation=append" won't do anything yet, I need to make map types more strongly defined because there's no way to read back the raw text in a way that won't drive me insane, and there's probably a couple other things it can't read back in (I think "Unset" will actually fail to be set right now...). I still need a couple days to hammer the rest of it into shape. The reason I'm showing this in this incomplete state when normally I refuse to show things until they're done is just to ask if I got this relatively close to what you wanted it to do before I go running off on trying to complete it. As it is, the dump mode should be mostly correct though I do reserve the right to make some final changes to the output format so I wouldn't use it as a base for any modding adventures just yet (I'll tell you once I think it's finalized). I also should teach it about better default match conditions for cases where I know one (at least TAmmunition and TUniteAuSolDescriptor for sure). So basically let me know how close I got it.
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May 20, 2014 04:27
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So basically it'll give me a folder full of xml files, one for each of the entries in a table, so if I point it at the field with all the units I get a xml tool style file for each unit (after it goes from proof of concept to cool tool)? Oh and first day of tanksmod testing: tank scissorfight trip report. It's pretty cool. Whether' it's truly good is the next point to find out. The strongest opening with armored is  with tanks. It's nasty.This is a hard armored punch into a broader front territory control opening. It knocked us off balance and kept us playing from the back foot. The stalemate was a lot more interesting because it was continual pushes and pullbacks rather than standoff missile sniping. One match was won by a mech infantry counterpush on a weak flank. I want to see how other openings fit in and the games they result in before making a judgment, but armored fights are good, mobile and fluid, with mobile warfare and all that jazz. EDIT: Tanks are nice, infantry are still good, decks that aren't all about armored bludgeounry are pretty cool and useful too. Tank like vehicles could use some love though. Otherwise I'd straight up never play without it. A few tanks are gonna get the balancehammer and then I think I'll do NSWP cause it's basically free because basically all the tanks are ones already balanced in the USSR and they've got a different take on the rest of the stuff. Still, this is super encouraging. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 06:41 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 05:26
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Yeah the initial results of play testing is amazing. In the last match my real clutch unit was the M60A3 of all loving things. You now actually have enough forces for mobile game play and can do things like flank the enemy instead of just death-ball roshambo at max range on frontal armor. Having a platoon of mediums go around on the flanks works really drat well.
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May 20, 2014 06:21
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I frequently played like a retard in that match, but it was stupid fun. I feel bad for Octamurk's back having carried me so much.
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May 20, 2014 06:51
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power crystals posted:This one's for Hob and friends. This version includes a modified version of the table exporter that produces a one file per instance in a format that's meant for the patch application mode. Just leave off the second argument to make it dump the .DAT file instead. Note that in this one you can't single out a specific ndfbin/table (yet) and it also takes multiple eternities to write out all those files, be patient. This will not produce files the patcher can actually use right now, it's a proof of concept only. In particular the "operation=append" won't do anything yet, I need to make map types more strongly defined because there's no way to read back the raw text in a way that won't drive me insane, and there's probably a couple other things it can't read back in (I think "Unset" will actually fail to be set right now...). I still need a couple days to hammer the rest of it into shape. C'mere so I can smooch ya. This is (on my end) pretty much exactly what I was hoping for. Hob's the most knowledgeable though, so I yield the final judgement to him. Tammunition, TUniteAuSoDescriptor... I can think of a few more that would be useful, but the two you mentioned are the big ones. Once again, you kick rear end. GJ.
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May 20, 2014 06:53
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https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13902799/TanksMod%20Replays.7z 4 Replays. No idea if you need the mod or not to view it since it doesn't alter anything but prices and availability (you should install the mod because it's pretty cool though) First game is a mixed game, Redfor jams tanks down Blue's throat. Blue snags an enemy point with leet pgren '90 forestry action, and then rides that gravy train to victory while blunting and eventually repulsing the Redfor push because they're able to put more points into it while the town is distracting Red. Second game is down the middle into a helicopter infantry rush that makes mistakes, and getting into a really nice position and pinning Blue down inside one forest and suppressing them.Third game is two armored pushes combining together for great justice against a defence that's widely spread and not mutually supporting. Even then it takes a lot of work to get to a checkmate with a lot of bloody fighting and mobile warfare. Tanks actually run low on fuel. Infantry still very capable of exerting islands of influence from cities and forests. Fourth game is a weird motorized deck that I should've checked the availabilities on in action against tanks and being pretty useful till it taps out, but making an interesting game of it and definitely not getting rolled by an armor heavy opening. Motorized openings are interesting, getting there before armor with a big force is a big thing. Also NOAHs are bad at roads and I am bad. I misplaced the first game of the day, but it was an armored meatgrinder with flanking actions, tactical infantry forestry and an Su-25T(!) making good use of its huge missile racks (!!) by picking out the TOW 2 launchers and the biggest tank out of a heavy armored push. Oh and hey shanakin, do you know where that infantry veterancy damage modifier is so I can gouge it out in case I feel real productive? I'm possibly more likely to be translating the mod to power crystals style xvm (my hero!) so I don't have to worry about patches, but I'm liable to take that out and just that and see what it does to infantry. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 07:08 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 06:58
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You will need the mod to properly watch the replays fyi.
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May 20, 2014 07:23
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A-10s and SU-25Ts would be loving glorious in that mod with queued attack orders
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May 20, 2014 07:42
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Justin Tyme posted:A-10s and SU-25Ts would be loving glorious in that mod with queued attack orders They are!
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May 20, 2014 08:04
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power crystals posted:So basically let me know how close I got it. Needs better documentation and ability to dump a single class. Other than that, it's exactly what I had in mind. Good job! xthetenth posted:4 Replays. Could someone please dump these on Youtube? I'd like to see how they play out. Hob_Gadling fucked around with this message at 09:01 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 08:36
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I think xerxes was mentioning actually doing a proper video job of them with commentary and all that jazz of at least the best one. Should hopefully be pretty good. They were actually getting good fighting through most of the game.
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May 20, 2014 09:08
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Just dumping them on YouTube commented or not would be smart publicity. The vast majority of people aren't going to install a mod just to check it out.
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May 20, 2014 09:20
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