|
I'll never forget the episode where they accused liberals of being behind draconian drug laws and of distorting information about drugs. Specifically, they did it by having a giant corporation make millions about lying to kids. Because if there's anything that liberals are known for, it's being tough on drugs and pro-business. South Park is almost as bad an Penn and Teller, honestly.
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 18:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 19:47 |
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:I'll never forget the episode where they accused liberals of being behind draconian drug laws and of distorting information about drugs. You can find a lot worse than that if you want to get into the general domain of "Parker and Stone's poo poo-awful political beliefs."
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 19:56
|
|
|
I'm straining to remember when they 'tore apart Islam.' I'm also fairly certain that the episode where Stan's parents pay the actor to pretend to be his drug-addicted self from the future never makes any explicit reference to any kind of political ideology besides drug paranoia. Me thinks people are conflating the public persona of creators with the content of their programming again, which is unfortunate, as while South Park the show isn't much more nuanced than Matt and Trey, it has done a consistently good job of not doing what people constantly try to make it out as doing, which is being more open to mocking one side of the political spectrum than the other. This conveniently sidesteps actually having to engage with the (admittedly cynical) content of Matt and Trey's work, which is that these distinctions are arbitrary because both liberals and conservatives have stupid beliefs about the war on drugs/religion/language and iconography/etc.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:23
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:I'm straining to remember when they 'tore apart Islam.' National Draw Muhammad Day.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:40
|
|
raditts posted:Seriously? You're talking about the same mormon episode that had a song throughout where half the words were "dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb"? What Darko said, basically. You should really watch the whole episode instead of just that part- the rest of the episode is about a perfectly nice Mormon family coming to the town and everyone being immediately suspicious of them because of their goofy beliefs, even though they're completely harmless. The message is, overall, that even if someone's beliefs are completely absurd it's still a colossal dick move to assume that reflects on them personally. computer parts posted:Protestant Christianity to be precise. I don't think there's an episode with an anti-Protestant bias similar to the Catholic Church deciding how to cover up raping boys better. I think a lot of why they softball Protestant Christianity is because, when they discuss religion, the people are the focus, not the beliefs. When they discuss the Catholic church, it's always about lovely things the Vatican does, not whether the central beliefs of Catholicism are valid; hell, the local priest is one of the most positively-portrayed characters on the entire show, and similarly to the Mormon episode, it took a very dim view of people who reacted to the Vatican's behavior by treating their local priests like poo poo. With Protestant Christianity, there's no monolith to take pot-shots at, and if you poke at the lower levels at it you have to target the beliefs with the people, because all the shittiest aspects of it are deeply rooted in those beliefs. I can't read their minds, but if I had to guess, it's just because their usual angle doesn't really work that well for it and taking a different angle either wouldn't be funny or just wouldn't go over well with anybody (keep in mind SP doesn't exist in a vacuum). Also, the transgendered episodes are... honestly kind of a product of their time, unless they've revisited the subject recently. It helps to keep in mind that loud and widespread trans* activism is kind of a really, really recent thing (like, last couple of years recent); they don't deserve a total free pass on it, because it's still pretty insensitive, but it's pretty safe to assume ignorance and not malice. e: Also the Draw Muhammad Day thing wasn't something they started, though it was a protest relating to SP. Hell, the one time they really addressed it (the Cartoon Wars episodes) was to pretty much say "this entire situation is loving stupid on both sides." SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 20:47 on May 15, 2014 |
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:44
|
|
|
SALT CURES HAM posted:
Like I said above though they openly mock Islam which (at least the Sunni variant) also has no centralized belief system and they don't even pretend to target only the people who send death threats. The "Family Guy shows Muhammad" episode only works because Comedy Central censored it, otherwise it's just poo-poo-ing people's faith for no reason. vvv The actual episode they made which prompted the event. vvv
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:47
|
|
|
Do you have any examples other than the Draw Muhammad Day thing (which again, they had nothing to do with)? ^^^ The episode that they immediately withdrew from circulation because they felt that they went too far, to the point where the only way to watch it at all (even heavily censored) is  . Yeah, evil fuckers, them. ^^^
SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 20:50 on May 15, 2014 |
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:47
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Like I said above though they openly mock Islam which (at least the Sunni variant) also has no centralized belief system and they don't even pretend to target only the people who send death threats. The target of that episode wasn't even close to being Islam. Don't get me wrong, Islamic individuals have as much right to be offended by the blasphemy on South Park as any other religion has and demonstrate vocally. But, again, this is placing an inordinate emphasis on questioning whether or not Matt and Trey are secretly out to 'poo-poo people's faith for no reason' (they have a reason, which is comedy), as opposed to poo-poo-ing people who have a paranoid, racist fear of Islamic extremism, which they conflate with all Islam. This is directly connected to their satire of contemporary anti-theist philosophy, which is far more insensitively Islamophobic than anything South Park has ever demonstrated.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:56
|
|
|
SALT CURES HAM posted:Do you have any examples other than the Draw Muhammad Day thing (which again, they had nothing to do with)? http://www.ign.com/articles/2006/07/19/south-park-matt-and-trey-speak-out-part-2?page=3 quote:So we'd actually talked about it before it hit the fan in January. When it did, we had this idea where we wanted to show Mohammed's image, but completely not offensive, just a guy standing there. And that was going to be the point. Basically, just an image, and it's harmless. The point is, it's not harmless.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:59
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:I'm straining to remember when they 'tore apart Islam.' I'm also fairly certain that the episode where Stan's parents pay the actor to pretend to be his drug-addicted self from the future never makes any explicit reference to any kind of political ideology besides drug paranoia. Me thinks people are conflating the public persona of creators with the content of their programming again, which is unfortunate, as while South Park the show isn't much more nuanced than Matt and Trey, it has done a consistently good job of not doing what people constantly try to make it out as doing, which is being more open to mocking one side of the political spectrum than the other. This conveniently sidesteps actually having to engage with the (admittedly cynical) content of Matt and Trey's work, which is that these distinctions are arbitrary because both liberals and conservatives have stupid beliefs about the war on drugs/religion/language and iconography/etc. From My Future Self N' Me, season 6, episode 16: quote:Director:So, everything is working out with your future actor? Your son seems to be responding. They literally put Bush-era neocon talking points into the mouth of a character describing himself as liberal. At the very moment John Ashcroft was going after potheads as though they supported terrorism. This is a derail and I am sorry. But South Park is and always has been lazy poo poo. I am sorry. I AM GRANDO fucked around with this message at 21:02 on May 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:59
|
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:From My Future Self N' Me, season 6, episode 16: I stand corrected. I still think the "always has been lazy poo poo" critique is over simplifying things, but Lord knows South Park isn't even funny anymore, so what's the point?
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 21:39
|
|
|
computer parts posted:National Draw Muhammad Day. El Gallinero Gros posted:I've actually seen and heard a bunch of people claim that South Park has gotten more vicious and mean spirited in the last couple seasons. Don't know if it's true though, havem't watched it in a while, but I heard the transgendered episode wasn't very nuanced at all. If anything South Park is better than it was during the mid 2000s. See World War Zimmerman and The Hobbit.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 21:49
|
|
|
The Hobbit episode was loving terrible.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 23:17
|
|
|
Matt and Trey don't really care about politics which pretty much explains every political thing in their show. The Hobbit was a good episode.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2014 05:44
|
|
|
I saw God is Not Dead a couple weeks ago and it is so comically bad it's hilarious. No one is represented favorably or realistically, even the heroes.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2014 04:57
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Like I said above though they openly mock Islam which (at least the Sunni variant) also has no centralized belief system and they don't even pretend to target only the people who send death threats. Jesus lives in South Park.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2014 14:10
|
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:From My Future Self N' Me, season 6, episode 16: Yea, it's not like a hallmark of the democratic party has been to continue and precipitously expand Bush era neoliberal policies or anything.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2014 17:10
|
|
Danger posted:Yea, it's not like a hallmark of the democratic party has been to continue and precipitously expand Bush era neoliberal policies or anything. I really want to just emptyquote this but I also don't want to incur the wrath of Vargo. Decisions, decisions.
|
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2014 22:22
|
|
|
Danger posted:Yea, it's not like a hallmark of the democratic party has been to continue and precipitously expand Bush era neoliberal policies or anything. I don't see what that has to do with claiming that secondhand smoke is not harmful. With these guys that's pretty small time next to their episodes on global warming denial, hate crimes, and alcoholism though. Between them and Penn and Teller, the 2000s were a pretty bad time if you hated people that cite TV shows that have no idea what they're talking about.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 03:21
|
|
|
Danger posted:Yea, it's not like a hallmark of the democratic party has been to continue and precipitously expand Bush era neoliberal policies Or do you think those fart-loving children of privilege have been warming up for a sustained marxist critique of the system that has made them millionaires?
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 15:55
|
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:Or do you think those fart-loving children of privilege have been warming up for a sustained marxist critique of the system that has made them millionaires? Why? Do you think they should? Because that would be terrible and unfunny. In the world of comedy, a fart joke is infinitely more valuable than a nuanced subtle critique. also "Fart loving children of privilege" is my new band. Also it's funny you think even though they're essentially right about liberals carrying on Right Wing policies, but it's not cool because they aren't right for the reasons you want them to be right for.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 23:34
|
|
|
Miltank posted:Matt and Trey don't really care about politics which pretty much explains every political thing in their show. There is an absurd amount of evidence that disproves this.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 13:09
|
|
|
The sad thing with Matt and Trey is...when they just do a "general" parody of something? It can be beyond belief funny. The Lil' Crime stoppers episode that they did was near-Zucker Bros. level hilarious. All it literally was just a general parody of CSI/NYPD Blue/Law and Order type shows and just making fun of their cliches. I don't find it as funny when they just try to do those ridiculous "Epic" episodes or anything related to current events.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 19:20
|
|
|
SALT CURES HAM posted:The message is, overall, that even if someone's beliefs are completely absurd it's still a colossal dick move to assume that reflects on them personally. Here are a couple ways to restate what you said: "People aren't accountable for what they believe", "A person shouldn't be judged for what they believe", "A person's beliefs and a person's persona are two separate entities."
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 21:17
|
|
|
And here's another way to restate what you just said, while we're being stupid and reductive: "I own a hundred fedoras and post on /r/atheism regularly." Seriously, are you honestly going to try and argue that Mormons are bad people because they believe an angel named Moroni came to Joseph Smith and gave him gold tablets with the word of God that magically poofed out of existence when other people wanted to see them? There are genuine issues with Mormonism but that's a really dumb way to approach it.
|
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 21:33
|
|
|
Mormons were pretty bad people when they were stealing as many wives as they could, taking over small town governments, trying to force their cult on everybody, and mass murdering Indians. Then they finally hosed off to Utah and seem to have chilled out.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 23:00
|
|
|
SALT CURES HAM posted:And here's another way to restate what you just said, while we're being stupid and reductive: "I own a hundred fedoras and post on /r/atheism regularly." Well, I wasn't being hostile. I also wasn't being reductive. I never said I think Mormons are bad people. I was merely responding to you literally saying that people should not be judged by what they choose to belive.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 23:19
|
|
|
Animal-Mother posted:Mormons were pretty bad people when they were stealing as many wives as they could, taking over small town governments, trying to force their cult on everybody, and mass murdering Indians. Then they finally hosed off to Utah and seem to have chilled out. There was also the whole "black people are cursed by God" thing, can't forget that. They didn't so much "gently caress off to Utah" so much as "get boxed in gradually because the government hated them so much that eventually what they had left was Utah."
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 01:15
|
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:I'll never forget the episode where they accused liberals of being behind draconian drug laws and of distorting information about drugs.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 02:48
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 03:23
|
|
|
I travel by train a lot and there are hundreds of bloody posters here in the UK for God is not Dead plastered all over the railway stations. There's always loads of Jesus poo poo in stations for some reason, but this is the first movie poster I've seen. This won't do well here, and will be only watched by the odd people who British people steadfastly try to avoid eye contact with in the street. American's always seem shocked to find out that the UK is statistically one of the least religious countries in the world for some reason.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 10:27
|
|
|
Bozza posted:This won't do well here, and will be only watched by the odd people who British people steadfastly try to avoid eye contact with in the street. American's always seem shocked to find out that the UK is statistically one of the least religious countries in the world for some reason. We were founded by a good number of the hardcore nutters who ran away from you, it left an impression.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2014 13:31
|
|
|
raditts posted:There was also the whole "black people are cursed by God" thing, can't forget that.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 11:05
|
|
|
Dante Logos posted:Tribulation Quadology What they're really about is some kind of paleoconservative, isolationist Republican worldview wherein America (i.e. straight, white, middle-class, small-town Protestants) is threatened by a host of corrupting influences (rock music, the United Nations, anything European or with a funny-sounding name) who want to convert the world to some sort of commie-lib New Age hippie government. Stuff I remember that may amuse you: 1. When the Rapture came, it didn't take people's clothes. I think this also happened in Left Behind, which I also saw, but in Tribulation everyone left behind very neatly pressed clothes. It looked like God gave all the Christians a free vacation while he did their dry-cleaning. 2. The leader of the secretly-Satanic one world government is named Maccalusso, and he acts sort of like a cross between a New Agey motivational speaker, a used-car salesman, and Dracula. 3. The Mark of the Beast is, indeed transmitted when soldiers of the NWO cram a pair of VR goggles onto your head. Then you have a conversation with Macalusso in a blank white VR environment (yes, like Morpheus and Neo) and you either accept the mark of the beast, or he murders you. 4. People who have the mark of the beast are psychologically incapable of feeling genuine love, which I guess was a neat twist. It comes up exactly once and doesn't really matter to the plot. 5. There is a scene where newscasters announce the formation of the one world government and widespread celebration, and of course the "celebration" they show is an overhead shot of a bunch of college students partying on a beach. So it's implied the NWO encourages young people to skip church, listen to Satanic heavy metal music like Sugar Ray (remember Sugar Ray?), and have the binge drinks and premarital fornications. The one thing I remember from the crowd shot is the shirtless guy wearing wraparound sunglasses and one of those felt top hats. (Remember those?) 6. Everyone supports the NWO and denounces the Christian rebels as "Haters," because how dare those Dumb-o-cRATs accuse us of intolerance. Despite the fact that Macalusso propagates his crypto-Satanist New Agey hippie religion by individually threatening to murder everyone on the planet. 7. In the last film, Macalusso captures the last of the "Haters," whose leader is a lawyer, and decides to "put God on trial" with the Hater lawyer lady defending God. This, of course, is a setup for some epic Christian burns on nonbelievers involving things like Simon Greenleaf.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 16:04
|
|
|
I remember watching Tribulation on Cinemax; it was the first time I'd ever even heard of the Rapture and I was baffled at who could believe something so wacko and why the movie described "every Christian" as believing in the Rapture (which was certainly not the case here in the predominantly Catholic Philippines). As I recall, the Christian rebels did their "rebellion" by driving around in a van broadcasting old episodes of the 700 Club with a satellite dish, which was pretty ridiculous to me. And as I recall, they win by revealing the bad guy's intentions to the world, which made no sense since to everyone on his side, it should already have been pretty clear anyway that he was evil incarnate.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2014 06:24
|
|
|
Argue posted:I was baffled at who could believe something so wacko and why the movie described "every Christian" as believing in the Rapture (which was certainly not the case here in the predominantly Catholic Philippines). American Protestantism has a long history of mediated depictions of Catholicism as being a sinful, idolatrous, wacko outfit. I believe the Catholic Church is even explicitly connected with the anti-Christ in one of these apocalyptic novel series, though I'm confounded to remember which one.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2014 07:34
|
|
|
Argue posted:I remember watching Tribulation on Cinemax; it was the first time I'd ever even heard of the Rapture and I was baffled at who could believe something so wacko and why the movie described "every Christian" as believing in the Rapture (which was certainly not the case here in the predominantly Catholic Philippines). As I recall, the Christian rebels did their "rebellion" by driving around in a van broadcasting old episodes of the 700 Club with a satellite dish, which was pretty ridiculous to me. And as I recall, they win by revealing the bad guy's intentions to the world, which made no sense since to everyone on his side, it should already have been pretty clear anyway that he was evil incarnate. It was Jack van Impe. Coincidentally, Jack bankrolled these movies and used his studio as the major set for them.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2014 07:39
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:American Protestantism has a long history of mediated depictions of Catholicism as being a sinful, idolatrous, wacko outfit. I believe the Catholic Church is even explicitly connected with the anti-Christ in one of these apocalyptic novel series, though I'm confounded to remember which one. The Left Behind series features The Pope as the Antichrist's right hand man and leader of the One World Unity Mystery Balabon Illumination Station New World Order Mecha Religion.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2014 11:03
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:American Protestantism has a long history of mediated depictions of Catholicism as being a sinful, idolatrous, wacko outfit. I believe the Catholic Church is even explicitly connected with the anti-Christ in one of these apocalyptic novel series, though I'm confounded to remember which one. Jack Chick (of those stupid little comic pamphlets) actually puts out stuff directly stating that the Catholic Church was created by and is currently run by Satan.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2014 18:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 19:47 |
|
|
muscles like this? posted:Jack Chick (of those stupid little comic pamphlets) actually puts out stuff directly stating that the Catholic Church was created by and is currently run by Satan. It's interesting how quickly popular culture has basically acted as the safety valve for all of the deep, basically racist animosity that has operated between different sects of Christianity in the U.S.. It's still here, but it's in the form of a very specific "niche" called indoctrination. It's like a capitalist-sponsored, commoditized, horizontal racism that gets parodied on The Simpsons that, of course, re-enthrones capitalism as the one, true religion.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2014 18:49
|
|