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I repudiate and revile the Cartographer's Coalition. No borders are pretty. They are all ugly, arbitrary lines drawn on a map. Glorifying one over another is the height of pointlessness, favouring a face marred by a sword wound to one blotched by a pox, denying the beauty of an unmarred, unmarked visage.
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May 21, 2014 06:26
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sniper4625 posted:The CC advocates conquest, the Inclusionists, decidedly not. Out of curiosity, how do you reconcile this? Lord Cyrahzax posted:
I am furthermore not concerned with Romanizing the states whose borders we beautify, as we do not come as conquerors, rather as artists, if you will. The treatment of their citizens and the form of government is therefore entirely within the purview of the state in question. On a personal note and as a member of the Hellenic Restoration, I would propose borders that are reminiscent of the Ancient Greek colonies. I do not however have a solution yet how those would translate into borders. It is of little concern anyway, as long as we forsake the true beliefs of the Greek pantheon in favour of the heathen god, we should not care about petty issues like our borders.
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May 21, 2014 06:35
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Ah forgive men, I slightly misunderstood your position. Still, the Inclusionists seem rather opposed to offensive action of any sort, even should conquered lands be split off.
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May 21, 2014 06:39
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 Also, heathen means someone who does not follow the Christian, Muslim or Jewish faiths. 
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May 21, 2014 06:41
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sniper4625 posted:The CC advocates conquest, the Inclusionists, decidedly not. Out of curiosity, how do you reconcile this? Simple. As much as I dislike the rest of their conquest goals, they have the correct idea. When in defensive wars, I advocate for no pieces of land to go to us, but to redistribute the land of the aggressors in an aesthetically pleasing manner.
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May 21, 2014 06:42
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Good god, we've actually got a sizable number of Senators who will give away valuable land and resources on the basis of "they don't look pretty." I think this senate has hit a new low. 
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May 21, 2014 06:45
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I think Unitas needs more Senators. Ol' LC's got the right idea on Romanization, I tell you what. ##Join the Unitas Party
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May 21, 2014 06:47
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  I expected this, really. It's little matter, history will vindicate the Da Qin. Time proves that China endures while the lesser states of the world crumble into dust, and regardless of my clout in the Senate, I will continue to fight for her equal in Rome. While I can't say any of the existing coalitions are to my taste, the Cartographer's Coalition will suit for now. I admire an attempt to bring order in these chaotic times. China, too, has always sought purity in her borders. There are limits to which we can expand, protectorates are key to our future. Of course, any such future conquests must meet strict bureaucratic standards as designed by an Imperial Cartography Committee. Oh, our sphere of influence must be shaped so as not to compete with Chinese interests, and we must be sure to avoid excessive entanglement with Western affairs. Now, to begin proposing a strict code of regulation for the beautification of our borders, I have drafted a lengthy document here, see here how in Article VII, Section III, the layout of vassals are strictly limited by... / 
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May 21, 2014 06:50
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So china has always sought purity on their borders? Is that why they sent a million men down the silk road to take Iberia and create the ugliest patchwork of states ever seen in history?
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May 21, 2014 07:00
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NewMars posted:
oh, wow, I just thought it meant anybody not following your own religion, since I have frequently heard it used for instance in Christians vs Muslims etc. I guess non-believers will have to do. Nevermind, Zeus will strike you all down whatever I call you! 
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May 21, 2014 07:04
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NewMars posted:
Chang Yuchun's mission was to liberate those chained beneath the yoke of the Mongols and return them to self-governance... With some tribute to China to express their gratefulness, of course. He attempted to forge an empire of his own, and we have yet another of many examples of disaster arising from those who defy their duty. I would think that Romans know this better than any others, for were Douxes not the scorn of Roman unity before our reforms, which were intended to model Chinese government? And yet another example of how extending beyond the range and capabilities of the homeland will prove a failure time and time again. /
Raserys fucked around with this message at 07:11 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 07:06
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Frankly, I'm not too sure what you actually expected there. You send a general off to the end of the world with a million men without being totally sure of his loyalty and of course something like this will happen. And the Doux are still the scorn of all good Romans. They're still around, you know.
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May 21, 2014 07:12
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##Join the Da Qin There are two great empires in our world, each guarding an end of the Silk Road. Once we were equals, China and Rome. But now, even as grand as we have become, it is clear the Great Ming are ever more glorious. After all, we never could have mounted an expedition such as the one undertaken by Chang Yuchun, let alone have experienced his wild success. As the Hongwu Emperor and his successors currently have the upper hand in our friendly competition, it is only natural that we should further emulate them. If the situations were reversed, they would be fools not to do the same.
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May 21, 2014 07:18
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NewMars posted:
 We really should fix that though. The doukes are an unwanted and unnecessary throw back to a more barbaric time.
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May 21, 2014 07:20
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Still around, but neutered like the dogs they are. Again, with thanks to Chinese-style reforms. Can you truly place the blame for the folly of one man upon a vast expanse of government and bureaucracy? Were the actions of Yaroslav caused by the Senate? I hardly think so. And you seem to have me mistaken for another man, Senator. My mother was of the Ming, but my father was of the Roman Senate. I merely admire Chinese governance, I am as Roman as any of you here. /
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May 21, 2014 07:22
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Oh, you are correct, sorry. I agree, though, we must destroy the Doux. You call them as neutered dogs but you are wrong in assuming they cannot harm us. They still have teeth and claws, still. They will not stop until they have regained power through any means and we must make sure they do not.
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May 21, 2014 07:24
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I'm glad to see we share similar goals, Senator. Our approaches may differ, but in the end, we both seek the return of power to Constantinople. I may want it through reform, you may want it through the sword, whichever way, the majority of members in the Senate agree that Rome must become the great power it was in antiquity, the counterbalance of civilization in the West. All I suggest is that we look East for inspiration. /
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May 21, 2014 07:30
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I wonder, were someone to create a Doucal party, if it would be more reviled than even the Hellenist, TRAITORS, and Unitas combined?
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May 21, 2014 07:30
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That's what UNITAS is. They just get away with it by being extremely assimilationist and fundamentalist as well. In any case, I seek the return of power through reform as well. Just reform of the Army.
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May 21, 2014 07:31
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Rubix Squid posted:
Perhaps, some time in the future, limiting the amount of time one can be a Doux or a title similar. Appointment or perhaps even election of eligible candidates, term limits keeping them cycling through different people so less will have time to plot revolts. Though this method would probably draw much ire here in home at first, we'd need a test bed for this system. If we can establish footholds and colonies in some foreign land, it would be the perfect opportunity to try this system.
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May 21, 2014 07:36
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An intriguing idea, one I feel I could personally get behind. But whatever may come the New Marians will always set themselves to the defense of far-flung colonies and footholds of the Empire.
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May 21, 2014 07:43
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StrifeHira posted:
Speaking of colonies, I do recall that my great grandmother or there abouts had a grand scheme to find some islands lost since ancient times off the coast of Africa that would potentially use for a staging ground for further expeditions. I figure it's an easy sell to both the New Marians and the whatever the merchants decide to name their coalition; a large skilled navy allows us to better protect the Empire from threats abroad and provides safety for merchant fleets.
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May 21, 2014 08:39
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NewMars posted:
Inclusionist scum and their pacifist ilk, the heresy parties have vague ideas on statesmanship with agenda ideals that severely limit the prosperity of both state and empire while forfeiting the safety of her people. Samuel fucked around with this message at 08:49 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 08:44
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 While I like the Adventurer's pizazz, I still think we are best served by the Church. ##Join the Neo-Milvians
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May 21, 2014 09:01
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##Join the Adventurer Merchants I'm hoping to get my own parcel of land in one of the future lands we might conquer around the world. Maybe a nice little island somewhere with nice weather all-year round. That'd be nice.
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May 21, 2014 09:06
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You are in luck, I have heard of an Island far away where there is nothing but summer year round, I believe they call it
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May 21, 2014 09:25
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Unwise_Cashew posted:
 Welcome! Do you wish to support only the Coalition itself, which is the bastion of Orthodox unity, or would you also like to align with one of the constituent parties? Options include, but are not necessarily limited to:  The Ecclesiastical Movement, which promotes the administrative side of the faith, is pacifist, tolerant and favours the creation of theocracies, The Party of the Faithful, which looks to spread the True Faith far and wide, and favours learning, progress and the Roman Empire as the safeguard of the Church, and Unitas, which seeks both cultural and religious unity, a centralised state and an expansionist outlook.We are all united by the Church, but represent a diverse range of views within that.
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May 21, 2014 10:35
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By the way, the Hellenic restorationists goal is literally impossible within the scope of the game: the only way we can change religion is by losing to religious rebels, which need a province of their religion to spawn.
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May 21, 2014 11:31
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NewMars posted:By the way, the Hellenic restorationists goal is literally impossible within the scope of the game: the only way we can change religion is by losing to religious rebels, which need a province of their religion to spawn. So was the Valerian Order. Just saying.
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May 21, 2014 11:33
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##Join the Monternos Party, because it is the most logical and progressive choice.
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May 21, 2014 14:06
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##Join the Adventurer Merchants Let us explore for glory and Profit!
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May 21, 2014 14:08
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##Join the New Marians So much suckling of Chinese ideology and "unity" with barbaric tribes is a clear message that the New Marians and the army will be needed more than ever when their inclusionist nature leads to revolts by those not put in their place under the Roman Empire.
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May 21, 2014 15:28
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Vagon posted:
Ha! New Marian trained foreign officers will lead those rebellions! Only Unitas can quash rebellions in the crib, and this is done by adoption! We raise future rebels as Romans, and they will fight for us! They will be us! Tolerance only legitimizes rebellion, only encourages separatism and civil war! One Roman people can and will conquer the world!
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May 21, 2014 17:50
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Says the party who whole-heartedly supported a coup that led to the bloodiest civil war since Constantine's day.
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May 21, 2014 17:56
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NewMars posted:
A civil war that happened because one ex-Empress was too greedy to realize she was an unwanted foreigner, that Rome stands forever over all nations. A civil war that happened because this Senate was too invested in the tainted blood of the sovereign rather than the state itself. A civil war that made the foreign doukes more powerful than ever. A civil war started by you and your confederates! Enough of this. You said it yourself: this debate is over. Thank you for showcasing New Marian hypocrisy, though!
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May 21, 2014 18:08
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AJ_Impy posted:Welcome! Do you wish to support only the Coalition itself, which is the bastion of Orthodox unity, or would you also like to align with one of the constituent parties? I'll throw my lot in with the The Ecclesiastical Movement for now.
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May 21, 2014 18:16
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
Started by us? How? They deposed the legitimate empress, because they could not who then fled to Tuscany and then the Brennas usurper proceeded to lose half the empire. And your house cheered them on! In fact, your ancestor's very words were: Lord Cyrahzax posted:Finally! Those those filth-ridden pretenders are overthrown! Rome forever over Russia! So much for supporting the state over the ruler. You could not stand that someone who descended from someone outside the empire took power. No matter that they were born and raised in Rome, no. No matter that they wanted what was best for Rome as any of us. NewMars fucked around with this message at 18:33 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 18:20
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NewMars posted:Started by us? How? They deposed the legitimate empress, whose daughter then fled to Tuscany and then the Brennas usurper proceeded to lose half the empire. And your house cheered them on! In fact, your ancestor's very words were: How could he say anything else? The Russian occupation that was "Kiev-Byzantium" was illegitimate, disgusting, and tyrannical! When the foul barbarian Yaroslav was rightfully slain, the patriotic doukes of the interior overthrew the Kievan Regency, and put the Empire back into Roman hands! And lose half the Empire? Russia was lost. Russia, which was never feasible for us to hold. Russia, that still dares to call itself the Third Rome, our equal! Russia, untamed! Do you remember that Emperor Komitas destroyed a Jihad, that he humbled Somalia? Of course not! Your traitor family was too busy preparing to slaughter patriots and fellow Romans! OOC: I was drunk when I posted that. Thanks for reminding me! Lord Cyrahzax fucked around with this message at 18:35 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 18:28
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
Yes, the Patriotic dukes who then immediately seceded as soon as their puppet was on the throne? Remember that Trezibon, Anatolia's Jewel was one of the most important of that revolt. What was it that made Russia so unfeasible and untamed? Was it the trade network of the Rus that stretched from the black sea to the Baltic, larger then any other in Europe? Or was it Russia, our Orthodox brethren who saw the light long before the reunification. Barbarian he was, perhaps, but you know what we used to do with Barbarians? Romanize them, make them love Rome, like his daughter did. Before she was immediately overthrown by the Doux. If you call me traitor, you will have to call all us Senators traitor, for you stand alone here. He won against a Jihad, yes, but lost against those "barbarians" to the north and Somalia? He beat up a bunch of traders for the sake of a vassal that he had let go! He wasted men and money burning valuable trade links on the behalf of a real traitor! And then he turned around and attacked them for no reason right after fighting their war! NewMars fucked around with this message at 18:44 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 18:39
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 Since it seems like it had broad support, I'm excited for the prospects of the Novus Mercator Coalition. Obviously the Adventurer Merchants are the largest constituency, but I hope we'll all be able to pull together to focus on what's really important, more important than pretty borders and xenophobia, a healthy, well developed economy.
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May 21, 2014 18:40
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