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Skuto posted:They're (obviously) making you offers below what they judge your true worth is and you feel dirty for correcting that? I didn't say I was exactly rational about it. Their excuse is "we're a startup, money is tight, please have a bunch of stock instead", which appeals to my sense of fairness, but logically that makes no sense. If money is that tight why are they hiring a bunch of people at once? And it's not the negotiation part, it's the part where I collect offers and then play them off against each other that makes me feel weird. Edit: It worked though. 
Urit fucked around with this message at 20:24 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 20:18
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How big of an increase on the previous offer did you get?
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May 19, 2014 20:44
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Urit posted:And it's not the negotiation part, it's the part where I collect offers and then play them off against each other that makes me feel weird. I was so excited when I could do that. My face was probably the epitome of  .
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May 19, 2014 20:46
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Cicero posted:How big of an increase on the previous offer did you get? To 110k from 100k, which is same as my current salary. Partial success, in that I didn't get them to bump it further, but I am sort of on the higher end of the salary for my title anyway in this area and the rest of the benefits look good - 100% premiums on insurance vs the disgustingly high ones I pay now, vacation policy looks to be "unlimited"  , and of course some delightfully probably-worthless startup stock.
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May 19, 2014 21:02
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Urit posted:This whole "salary negotiation" trick of playing off offers against each other makes me feel dirty though. Corporations aren't people. unless you're the supreme court
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May 19, 2014 21:20
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I'm baby level programming, one semester into a B.Technology degree after dropping BA I was in for the last 3 years. Decided humanities is the poo poo of the earth and committed to pursuing comp sci like I'd been fence-sitting over since highschool. Just using the B.Tech as a bridge into CS since I couldn't get an internal transfer and another university gave me the tech offer. Basically I'll be applying back into my previous, better university with my fresh new 4.0 B.Tech GPA and I'm torn between the three big options. Core units for B.Comp Sci  -3 years -Easiest of the three to get into -Flexible with electives, which means I can salvage some of my old BA linguistics units and keep going with those Core units for B.Engineering (Computer Systems)  -4 years -Elec.eng. electives only Core units for B.Engineering (Software):  -4 years -Engineer,comp.sci. and mathematical electives only Given some between classes and the fact that, after unit transfers, I can knock comp sci out in <2 years that's personally where I'm leaning, but some graduate and/or professional advice would be seriously invaluable. I'm concerned about employability above all things, my job hunt has been a total nightmare since I first started studying and I'm only interested in whatever guarantees me work at this time. Any suggestions?
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May 19, 2014 21:51
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diddy kongs feet posted:
Nobody will give a poo poo what the degree is about specifically as long as it sounds like a computery thing. What will matter is your ability to interview and your internships.
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May 20, 2014 00:32
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NovemberMike posted:Nobody will give a poo poo what the degree is about specifically as long as it sounds like a computery thing. What will matter is your ability to interview and your internships. Yeah, I figured. But all I ever hear about internships with big names is that they prefer x degree. I spoke to several google au interns recently who all mentioned that having Comp Engineering is what tipped the scales for them. whatever though I guess I'm overthinking it and setting the wrong benchmarks. More than happy to hear degree particulars don't matter.
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May 20, 2014 01:28
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Had an interview for an internship at Raytheon the other day. It was pretty hard, almost an hour of technical stuff. I don't think I totally bombed it, but I don't think I did very well. At least I'm even able to get interviews after only two semesters of a master's, but I think I need to work a lot on algorithms (among other things). Does anyone have a recommendation for a good basic book on the topic for someone who's still at student level?
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May 20, 2014 03:43
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The usual recommendation for interview practice is Cracking The Coding Interview. It's not specifically about algorithms but it has questions around all of the common topics including a lot of algorithm stuff. Edit: If you want something more academic, Introduction to Algorithms has been mentioned previously in this thread, though I've not personally used it. Tunga fucked around with this message at 10:51 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 08:39
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Tunga posted:Edit: If you want something more academic, Introduction to Algorithms has been mentioned previously in this thread, though I've not personally used it.
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May 20, 2014 11:17
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Interview at 10 today. Still not sure what will happen, but I'm more prepared now than I was before. Cross your fingers!
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May 20, 2014 14:10
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Man, didn't hear back from either of the jobs where I felt like I did pretty well on my phone screenings last week (one guy even said he thought it went really well). Just sent out follow up emails, but I'm starting to get discouraged again. Keep on keepin' on I guess.
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May 20, 2014 14:32
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Urit posted:vacation policy looks to be "unlimited" That's code for non existent.
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May 20, 2014 15:30
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Ochowie posted:That's code for non existent. Pretty sure I've read that 'unlimited' tends to turn into the usual 4 weeks in practice.
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May 20, 2014 15:54
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bonds0097 posted:Pretty sure I've read that 'unlimited' tends to turn into the usual 4 weeks in practice. Yeah maybe in a normal company. But if people think they're going to be able to take 4 weeks of vacation at a startup then they are in for a surprise (when they get back and someone else is sitting at their desk).
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May 20, 2014 16:09
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Ochowie posted:Yeah maybe in a normal company. But if people think they're going to be able to take 4 weeks of vacation at a startup then they are in for a surprise (when they get back and someone else is sitting at their desk). Heh, fair enough.
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May 20, 2014 16:48
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Interview over. It didn't go as badly as I had expected, but it wasn't amazing either. I got an algorithms question on traversing through a tree and a couple of brainteasers, including the coins one. The former took embarrassingly long, and I had to get a few hints...it ended up coming down to stacks and a five-liner in the end. It's clear that my relative lack of CS fundamentals screwed me over there, but I did reason everything out in the end, so it's not like I'm a dumbass, right?  I don't feel bad about it though. Their work looked interesting and they're pretty nice, so I'd like things to go well.
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May 20, 2014 17:14
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bonds0097 posted:Pretty sure I've read that 'unlimited' tends to turn into the usual 4 weeks in practice. I dunno about that but here's a lot of words about the subject: http://jacobian.org/writing/unlimited-vacation/
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May 20, 2014 17:19
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Ochowie posted:That's code for non existent. That's what the was for.I dunno, I'm looking at it as an adventure. Sure, it will probably suck and I'll hate it, but by god at least something might happen! Right now I'm sitting in a tiny grey fabric box with a grey ceiling overhead, reading Something Awful for 6-8 hours per day. Some people say their dream is to do nothing and get paid for it, but it certainly isn't my dream, and maybe I'll get something good out of this. If nothing else, I'll learn what not to do. So, with that, time to  - 2 weeks notice is in and I'm holding onto my butt.
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May 20, 2014 19:29
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Pollyanna posted:Interview over. It didn't go as badly as I had expected, but it wasn't amazing either. I got an algorithms question on traversing through a tree and a couple of brainteasers, including the coins one. The former took embarrassingly long, and I had to get a few hints...it ended up coming down to stacks and a five-liner in the end. It's clear that my relative lack of CS fundamentals screwed me over there, but I did reason everything out in the end, so it's not like I'm a dumbass, right?
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May 20, 2014 19:44
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trip9 posted:Man, didn't hear back from either of the jobs where I felt like I did pretty well on my phone screenings last week (one guy even said he thought it went really well). Just sent out follow up emails, but I'm starting to get discouraged again. Keep on keepin' on I guess. Not that anyone cares, but I just heard back from one of the companies that I interviewed with and they scheduled a 2-hour Skype interview next week, so that's nice. Quick question: What should I really expect with a Skype interview that long? I know that there will be a group of people interviewing me, including the developer that interviewed me in the phone screening, an HR person, and possibly some of the other employees there. Since everyone will be there what do you think the odds of it getting real technical are? I feel like it would be awkward to be in a Skype video conference and be typing/writing up code. trip9 fucked around with this message at 20:25 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 20:14
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trip9 posted:Not that anyone cares, but I just heard back from one of the companies that I interviewed with and they scheduled a 2-hour Skype interview next week, so that's nice. While they definitely would likely ask technical questions, they may well also have you code on a Google Doc or something shared between all of you. Or have you open an editor on your machine and screenshare it in Skype, and they'll be watching from a big screen TV in a conference room or something. I would still be somewhat prepared for this. In preparation for the possibility of the latter, remember to turn off chat clients or anything else that may pop up embarrassing notifications or toasts on your screen, and remove from your desktop all those folders where you've meticulously categorized your pornography by genre.
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May 20, 2014 20:37
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Urit posted:That's what the So what kind of experience did you need for your current 100k/year Forums Reader position. Where can I apply?
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May 20, 2014 22:42
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Kumquat posted:So what kind of experience did you need for your current 100k/year Forums Reader position. Where can I apply? "Senior Devops Engineer" is the kind of resume you need and the only skills you need are Ruby and bullshit, at least for this company.
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May 20, 2014 23:09
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trip9 posted:Not that anyone cares, but I just heard back from one of the companies that I interviewed with and they scheduled a 2-hour Skype interview next week, so that's nice. You can send a note to whoever's coordinating and ask, "are you going to be asking me to write code? Answer technical questions? Talk about my work style?" Nobody should be annoyed by you wanting to be well-prepared.
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May 21, 2014 04:47
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One of our teams just put up a position requesting 3 years of experience with technology X. Technology X is barely 5.5 years old. When it was pointed out to the respective manager that over half his current team wouldn't qualify, he shrugged and said that HR had insisted on it because it would improve the quality of the candidates.  Don't take "years of experience" requirements in job ads too literally.
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May 21, 2014 19:29
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bonds0097 posted:Heh, fair enough. Skuto posted:Inflated "years of experience" requirements in job ads. Then there's HR/recruiters who trip you up over the bogus requirements. The highlight of my personal experience was when the position stated 3 years of php in its requirements. I had 2 years of php backed by 2 years of C++, before that a couple years in a potpourri of C# and some smaller niche languages, and before that java in college. My first and last interview there was with the HR person who started right away and at points throughout kept returning to "2 years PHP < 3 years PHP :: ERROR ERROR" and giving the "are you REALLY sure you qualify for this job?" line of questioning. Frustrating to the extreme, though while we can call them idiots we have to lay some blame on what they're given to work with. In response to your boss saying "It will improve candidates", my serious reply would be "It will do nothing to weed out the completely unqualified who are going to apply no matter what. And a trait of good candidates is they tend to recognize a fruitless pursuit and won't waste time on it, so we'll probably bump out a few promising applicants because we've basically told them they're grossly under qualified for a position that they actually might do well in." My non-serious, and hopefully not said out loud reply would be "Good thinking, let's make it 8 years!".
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May 21, 2014 22:00
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At least it wasn't <technology that has only existed for 5 years> "ONLY HIRING SENIOR/EXPERT LEVEL CANDIDATES WITH 10 OR MORE YEARS EXPERIENCE IN <technology>" 
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May 21, 2014 22:04
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Bhaal posted:In response to your boss saying "It will improve candidates" It wasn't him, it was HR, and he didn't want to fight over it. I posted it here to alert you that yes, HR departments do stupid things like that, and if you can get past them, you should find a sane person. There's a size above which the "administrative" parts of companies always seem to go to poo poo, and it looks like we reached it. Meh. I hope you're not getting pushed over in salary negotiation. This thread has a ton of advice that should make you immune to any such shenanigans.
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May 21, 2014 22:22
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I applied for a job requiring 0-3 years in Ruby, and I was told they were looking for someone with more experience. Also a recruiter emailed me about a position then 15 minutes later asked me to disregard it. wolffenstein fucked around with this message at 23:22 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 23:20
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I got a job as an Android dev with zero professional Android experience because I was referred by a friend. Every single job advert we post still asks for minimum two years. It's dumb as hell. Jumping between platforms is trivial.
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May 22, 2014 01:39
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For those of you that interview candidates for programming jobs, what kind of guidance has your company given you before you do the interview? Example: If an interview happens and the interviewer marks the candidate down for putting syntax errors on the whiteboard, is it likely that the company has a policy of wanting valid syntax in an interview or is the interviewer just using their own judgement? Do interviewers generally have a guideline that they follow or is up to the person giving the interview? I think I am asking this in a awkward way.
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May 22, 2014 19:08
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Most companies I've been at just had you sit in in a few interviews, at best. If you're considered senior enough, some day someone will just ask you "uh can you interview this guy". That's hard enough that the people who have to give the interviews read this thread too  Depending on how much time/effort the company spends on applications, there may be multiple interviewers (partly cancelling out any idiocrasies of a particular one) and a review meeting at the end.
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May 22, 2014 19:31
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Depends on how formal the company is. I work for a HFT firm, and we don't have any formal guidance, though we do pair interviews from time to time as a calibration exercise. Regarding syntax, I'd expect a CompSci graduate to be able to get syntax correct for whatever their uni's 'main' programming language is - typically Java in the UK. In the case of C#, I'd expect grads to know up to C# 2.0 language features (LINQ and async/await might not have been covered and async/await has some wonderful subtleties that catch out experienced devs). Syntax for Java-like languages should be bread and butter, you should be able to do it the same way a mathematician can do basic algebraic manipulation. I'm not a C++ programmer, but I can read it, and I'd expect a grad claiming it to be their preferred language able to knock up basic functions etc.
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May 22, 2014 19:34
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Milotic posted:Regarding syntax, I'd expect a CompSci graduate to be able to get syntax correct for whatever their uni's 'main' programming language is - typically Java in the UK. ... Syntax for Java-like languages should be bread and butter, you should be able to do it the same way a mathematician can do basic algebraic manipulation....I'm not a C++ programmer, but I can read it, and I'd expect a grad claiming it to be their preferred language able to knock up basic functions etc. IMHO this is extremely harsh and you're probably underestimating how hard it is. Go on and code some basic programming exercise entirely in Notepad, finish it up, and only then run it through javac or cl/gcc. If it doesn't compile, are you read to hand in your resignation? Java is one of my main languages and this week I couldn't for the life of me remember whether Java allowed "ArrayList<foo> bar = new ArrayList<foo>;" as syntax or not.
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May 22, 2014 19:42
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I never gave a poo poo about interviewee's syntax while whiteboarding. Getting hung up on the minute details instead of working through their thought process is dumb imo.
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May 22, 2014 19:42
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e: nm
coffeetable fucked around with this message at 19:48 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 19:44
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coffeetable posted:
Presumably he's talking about using new without parens, which is legal in C++. More fun java syntax: code:
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May 22, 2014 19:48
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coffeetable posted:A constructor is a function. It's obviously not valid syntax. It's valid in C++ and the difference between the two syntaxes (() or not) actually causes some obscure differences.
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May 22, 2014 19:49
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