UKMT May: Elections! (which won't fix anything)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT May: Elections! (which won't fix anything)

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

Jack the Lad posted:

I don't get why anyone would spoil a ballot.

It's not like adding to the number of spoiled ballots accomplishes anything, because the reason you spoilt it (even if you write that down) is not recorded - no party will ever change their views or actions because you spoilt your ballot.

For all anyone knows you might be spoiling your ballot because you don't find any of the parties racist enough to vote for.

I do it because my vote will be counted as a spoiled ballot. I don't care that no vote counting person is suddenly going to scream, and turn over the tables and start quoting "combat liberalism" while setting fire to everything (although that would be sweet). I would rather that happen, than to not vote when so many people have literally fought and bled so that I could.

That said, I don't think people should feel compelled to vote just because of this.

Also, gently caress voting for someone that A: I don't agree with and B: will be working in a system that thrives on loving the poor while keeping them distracted anyway.

Someone should start a "none of the above" box thing I guess, but I'm lazy.

# ? May 22, 2014 14:26

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# ? May 24, 2024 14:21

Loonytoad Quack: Aug 24, 2004; High on Shatner's Bassoon

Fluo posted:

No, it should be a system which isn't biased. If it was biased towards smaller parties half of the EU would be the fourth Reich. Espa�a 2000, SRP, National Renovator Party, BNP, National Front (Albania), National Popular Front, Workers' Party (Czech Republic), Greater Romania Party, Brothers of Italy � National Alliance, Croatian Party of Rights, Slovak National Party, Golden Dawn, Attack, Order and Justice, Vlaams Belang, National Democratic Party. The list goes on like the Netherland's Party for Freedom. Bias either way is bad and wanting it so your politics is louder then others is wrong and self absorbed. What you should be saying is "It should be non-biased" not "it should be biased for MY POLITICS". It's democracy.

Bias is both a noun and a verb, you are using the wrong form in many places and I am in an anally-retentive arsehole-on-the-internet kind of mood so I have corrected them all for you. You are very welcome.

PS - I agree with your point but it assumes there is an ideal, completely unbiased system, which obviously there isn't so we need to make a call on the least lovely option (or in the case of the UK, wholeheartedly vote to stick with by far the MOST lovely option).

# ? May 22, 2014 14:29

TinTower: Apr 21, 2010; You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

Kegluneq posted:

And I thought I was bad at voting...

To be fair, I personally know both of candidates he's talking about and they're both amazing people, despite being Lib Dems.

# ? May 22, 2014 14:29

SybilVimes: Oct 29, 2011

Gonzo McFee posted:

What is it about the minimum wage, maternity leave, employment tribunals and human rights you find so abhorrent?

Isn't sloth a lolbertarian? he probably thinks that poors, women, and employees are below a cumstain of industry.

# ? May 22, 2014 14:30

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

huh http://news.sky.com/story/1266550/royal-mail-posts-430m-in-full-year-profits

Sky News posted:

Royal Mail Posts �430m In Full-Year Profits
Royal Mail has reported an operating profit of �430m in its first full-year results since privatisation. The figure for the 12 months to March, after transformation costs, is up from �403m in the previous year - a rise of 6.7%. But the company warns it is facing a number of "headwinds" including increasing competition in parcels.

The Royal Mail also warned a move to direct delivery of letters by rivals TNT Post could threaten the financial sustainability of the universal service without action by the regulator Ofcom. The company is legally obliged to deliver to every address in the country for a single price, and it warns the TNT plans could lose the firm �200m. Chief executive Moya Greene said: "We can't just sit around waiting for the damage to be done, there has to be action now. Ofcom's duty is to secure the financial sustainability of the Universal Service Obligation."

But an Ofcom spokesman said: "We do not believe that there is presently a threat to the financial sustainability of the universal postal service. We have a duty to secure the universal service, and if we identify any future threat we have powers to step in to protect it. We would expect Royal Mail to take appropriate steps to respond to the challenge posed by competition, including improving efficiency."

Parcels now contribute more than 50% of Royal Mail's revenue - �4.82bn - after a 7% rise, although volumes remained flat. On Wednesday, the firm announced it will start delivering parcels and opening delivery offices on Sundays, in response to the rapid growth of online shopping. Ms Greene said: "The competitive environment on the parcels side is more intense. We are taking steps to remain the leader in this growing market." The group's letters performance was at the better end of expectations, with revenues down 2% to �4.6bn on a year earlier. The amount of letters fell by 4%, but the trend improved over the year due to better economic conditions and one-off factors such as energy companies writing to customers about price rises.

Shares in the firm opened more than 3% lower. However at 553p the stock is still much higher than the 330p valuation placed at the time of the flotation. The Government still own a 30% stake in Royal Mail, which was sold off last autumn.

But the privatisation was heavily criticised for not delivering value for money for the taxpayer. The Government robustly defended the sale against sharp criticism from the National Audit Office, which found that "deep caution" shown by ministers when pricing shares in the Royal Mail cost the taxpayer more than �1bn.

Good thing the government's finances are in great shape and we couldn't use �430million to pay for some schools or hospitals or anything.

# ? May 22, 2014 14:32

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

SybilVimes posted:

Isn't sloth a lolbertarian? he probably thinks that poors, women, and employees are below a cumstain of industry.

No, he's out and out fascist.

# ? May 22, 2014 14:32

Fluo: May 25, 2007

Loonytoad Quack posted:

Bias is both a noun and a verb, you are using the wrong form in many places and I am in an anally-retentive arsehole-on-the-internet kind of mood so I have corrected them all for you. You are very welcome.

PS - I agree with your point but it assumes there is an ideal, completely unbiased system, which obviously there isn't so we need to make a call on the least lovely option (or in the case of the UK, wholeheartedly vote to stick with by far the MOST lovely option).

No sweat don't worry man, unless someone is told they wouldn't learn!

# ? May 22, 2014 14:37

Myrddin_Emrys: Mar 27, 2007; by Hand Knit

Voted UKIP, happy voting everyone.

# ? May 22, 2014 14:40

A Sloth: Aug 4, 2010; EVERY TIME I POST I AM REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE THAT I AM A SHITHEAD.

ASK ME MY EXPERT OPINION ON GENDER BASED INSULTS & "ENGLISH ETHNIC GROUPS".

Gonzo McFee posted:

What is it about the minimum wage, maternity leave, employment tribunals and human rights you find so abhorrent?

I only voted them for a few of reasons. Tactical voting, anti-EU and immigration control. Also maybe they'll wear silly jumpers at the EU parliament.

I'd never vote them in the local elections though.

# ? May 22, 2014 14:41

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

A Sloth posted:

I only voted them for a few of reasons. Tactical voting, anti-EU and immigration control. Also maybe they'll wear silly jumpers at the EU parliament.

I'd never vote them in the local elections though.

you voted for people you freely admit are bad people and bad at government for reasons that are objectively wrong.

# ? May 22, 2014 14:49

Baudolino: Apr 1, 2010; THUNDERDOME LOSER

From what I have read about UKIP i can understand why you don`t want to vote for them. They seem pretty bad. However, aren`t the Euroelections a bit of special case here? The Europarlament have very little power so what harm can UKIP really do to British voters there?

Personally, I want the EU to fail. That`s why I am halfway hoping that the extreme right will make a killing during these elections and get a majority in the Europarliament. Why? Because I want the Europarlament to lose all credibility and legitimacy by bying nothing more than a puddle of sewage. I want to it be so that every time you hear about the Europarliament it will because one of it`s member has said something utterly horrible and vile. Perhaps this will scare the governments of Europe from trying to develop the EU any further. If had the right to vote in Euro-elections I would have been sorely tempted to vote for one the more extreme racist parties ( including Golden Dawn) purely for the sake of spite.

Let the psychos in and give them matches and a can of petrol I say!

# ? May 22, 2014 14:52

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Baudolino posted:

The Europarlament have very little power

This used to be true but really isn't now that the EU has moved to the codecision model. The Parliament now has the ability to veto or amend all EU legislation.

e: the harm UKIP can do is completely fail to represent British interests. Historically, their MEPs simply don't do their jobs - they don't turn up to committee meetings, they don't try to get legislation changed to further their constituents' interests, and they don't show up for big votes. Even if you think that the EU is bad or needs to be changed in some fundamental way, it doesn't make sense to send representatives there who will sit idly by and let your interests be disregarded when important decisions are being made.

LemonDrizzle fucked around with this message at 14:59 on May 22, 2014

# ? May 22, 2014 14:56

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Baudolino posted:

From what I have read about UKIP i can understand why you don`t want to vote for them. They seem pretty bad. However, aren`t the Euroelections a bit of special case here? The Europarlament have very little power so what harm can UKIP really do to British voters there?

Personally, I want the EU to fail. That`s why I am halfway hoping that the extreme right will make a killing during these elections and get a majority in the Europarliament. Why? Because I want the Europarlament to lose all credibility and legitimacy by bying nothing more than a puddle of sewage. I want to it be so that every time you hear about the Europarliament it will because one of it`s member has said something utterly horrible and vile. Perhaps this will scare the governments of Europe from trying to develop the EU any further. If had the right to vote in Euro-elections I would have been sorely tempted to vote for one the more extreme racist parties ( including Golden Dawn) purely for the sake of spite.

Let the psychos in and give them matches and a can of petrol I say!

Why do you want the EU to fail?

# ? May 22, 2014 14:56

Kegluneq: Feb 18, 2011; Mr President, the physical reality of Prime Minister Corbyn is beyond your range of apprehension. If you'll just put on these PINKOVISION glasses...

TinTower posted:

To be fair, I personally know both of candidates he's talking about and they're both amazing people, despite being Lib Dems.

Which s fair enough (I will absolutely be voting Labour in the next General election because my MP is awesome), but a lot of people don't seem to realise that voting for a person and the party are exactly the same thing, at least in the cases he is talking about.

Edit: This is pretty much the only baseline for support the Lib Dems have as a party now, their credibility at a national level is surely hosed.

Kegluneq fucked around with this message at 15:04 on May 22, 2014

# ? May 22, 2014 14:58

ThomasPaine: Feb 4, 2009; We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

Baudolino posted:

From what I have read about UKIP i can understand why you don`t want to vote for them. They seem pretty bad. However, aren`t the Euroelections a bit of special case here? The Europarlament have very little power so what harm can UKIP really do to British voters there?

Personally, I want the EU to fail. That`s why I am halfway hoping that the extreme right will make a killing during these elections and get a majority in the Europarliament. Why? Because I want the Europarlament to lose all credibility and legitimacy by bying nothing more than a puddle of sewage. I want to it be so that every time you hear about the Europarliament it will because one of it`s member has said something utterly horrible and vile. Perhaps this will scare the governments of Europe from trying to develop the EU any further. If had the right to vote in Euro-elections I would have been sorely tempted to vote for one the more extreme racist parties ( including Golden Dawn) purely for the sake of spite.

Let the psychos in and give them matches and a can of petrol I say!

Are you mad.

Giving them votes just gives them exposure, legitimises them and forces the media/other voters to engage with them. If they come to be seen as legitimate, the chance of them actually gaining seats in the next general election is dramatically improved. This is a very bad thing. Would you not rather the EU was altered so it served the interests of the people, rather than see it dismembered completely? Would you not miss the free movement etc? The Greens are a significantly better protest vote than UKIP, because even if they did attain legitimacy that would be no bad thing.

# ? May 22, 2014 14:59

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Voted Labour. Considered voting Plaid Cymru after seeing the D'Hondt Entitlement prediction thing a few pages back, but I reasoned that if everyone voted tactically with something like that then Labour wouldn't regain a seat in Wales.

# ? May 22, 2014 15:01

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

Baudolino posted:

From what I have read about UKIP i can understand why you don`t want to vote for them. They seem pretty bad. However, aren`t the Euroelections a bit of special case here? The Europarlament have very little power so what harm can UKIP really do to British voters there?

Personally, I want the EU to fail. That`s why I am halfway hoping that the extreme right will make a killing during these elections and get a majority in the Europarliament. Why? Because I want the Europarlament to lose all credibility and legitimacy by bying nothing more than a puddle of sewage. I want to it be so that every time you hear about the Europarliament it will because one of it`s member has said something utterly horrible and vile. Perhaps this will scare the governments of Europe from trying to develop the EU any further. If had the right to vote in Euro-elections I would have been sorely tempted to vote for one the more extreme racist parties ( including Golden Dawn) purely for the sake of spite.

Let the psychos in and give them matches and a can of petrol I say!

Agreed, let's give literal fascists more power, more exposure, more credibility on the national level.

# ? May 22, 2014 15:03

Fans: Jun 27, 2013; A reptile dysfunction

Paul.Power posted:

Voted Labour. Considered voting Plaid Cymru after seeing the D'Hondt Entitlement prediction thing a few pages back, but I reasoned that if everyone voted tactically with something like that then Labour wouldn't regain a seat in Wales.

Labour is getting a seat for sure, they're trying to push for two. Not that I'd recommend Plaid Cymru because they're a bit mental.

# ? May 22, 2014 15:05

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Fans posted:

Labour is getting a seat for sure, they're trying to push for two. Not that I'd recommend Plaid Cymru because they're a bit mental.

Yeah, by "regain a seat" I meant "get back up to two seats from one", since they went down from two to one at the last Euro elections.

# ? May 22, 2014 15:09

Pork Pie Hat: Apr 27, 2011

I'm not voting for any of them because in or out of the EU all of the parties exist to consolidate and advance the power and interests of the capitalist classes.

Participating in any form (voting or spoiling your ballot) just legitimises the process they use to subjugate you.

When you spoil your ballots, don't forget your demads;

"Bigger Cages! Longer Chains!"

# ? May 22, 2014 15:09

QuantumCrayons: Apr 11, 2010

Walking through Dundee earlier, I saw the Roseangle polling station has SNP, Lab, Lib and Green placards placed outside. No sign of Tory or UKIP, thankfully.

# ? May 22, 2014 15:11

Alecto: Feb 11, 2014

Fans posted:

Labour is getting a seat for sure, they're trying to push for two. Not that I'd recommend Plaid Cymru because they're a bit mental.

Labour should almost definitely get two in Wales. It looked like Plaid had the best chance of taking the Conservatives' seat; they'd need to outperform the polls by ~10,000 votes, whereas Labour would need another ~120,000 and the Greens ~70,000.

# ? May 22, 2014 15:15

Samovar: Jun 4, 2011; I'm 😤 not a 🦸🏻‍♂️hero...🧜🏻

I saw a hell of a lot of rightest parties on the ballot (in Glasgow); was TEMPTED to vote Green for this election, but I went with SNP in the end, re. the Green's position on energy and GMOs.

# ? May 22, 2014 15:25

Nothingtoseehere: Nov 11, 2010

Tories in the south-east are really scared of UKIP councils, this was posted in a strong labour seat UKIP are trying to gain.

# ? May 22, 2014 15:35

vodkat: Jun 30, 2012; cannot legally be sold as vodka

Just stoping by to lol at how all the most outraged posters and radicals in this thread are somehow unable to vote today, willing to spoil their ballot, or waste their vote on some complete joke party.

# ? May 22, 2014 15:58

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

Trickjaw posted:

Its hoying it down here in Essex, so I hope the UKIP minibus thing they have is too busy to get many grumpy racists to the polling stations.

Unfortunately lovely weather tends to benefit fringe parties more than mainstream ones. Would you step out in that to vote for Labour? Of course not. Your neighbour, who is FURIOUS AT ALL THE YURP TAKING OUR JOBS AND LETTING FORRIN PEDOS KIDNAP MADDY, is much more motivated than you are and so more likely to brave the tempest.

Also after a truly apocalyptic thunderstorm in London (that may have ripped the fabric of space-time and allowed Satan to walk the earth), all is calm and peaceful with bright blue skies, and that's heading your way now.

# ? May 22, 2014 15:59

Jakabite: Jul 31, 2010

Plenty of 'outraged' posters voted for a reasonable party though...?

# ? May 22, 2014 16:01

Bobstar: Feb 8, 2006; KartooshFace, you are not responding efficiently!

Jakabite posted:

Plenty of 'outraged' posters voted for a reasonable party though...?

Unless Green / misc Socialist types count as "joke", in which case the remaining option is "vote for one of the 3 main parties"

Radical

# ? May 22, 2014 16:04

spikenigma: Nov 13, 2005; by Ralp

Yay, to voting for a combination of Labour, TUSC and the Greens. :smith:

Between U_{[we need some sort of solution to the immigration problem with a bit of finality ]}KIP

and the

Conser_{[Economic realities and making the hard choices� have meant that we've had to privatise your blood. Blood banks?, no the actual blood flowing through what is currently 'your' veins. It now belongs to PepsiCo who have assured us....]}vative party, there really wasn't much choice.

# ? May 22, 2014 16:06

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

vodkat posted:

Just stoping by to lol at how all the most outraged posters and radicals in this thread are somehow unable to vote today, willing to spoil their ballot, or waste their vote on some complete joke party.

There was another option?

# ? May 22, 2014 16:19

Pesmerga: Aug 1, 2005; So nice to eat you

Baudolino posted:

A load of uniformed tripe.

Congrats on voting for right wing idiots on the basis of complete misconceptions about the functioning of parliaments and international relations generally and the European Parliament specifically, I guess.

# ? May 22, 2014 16:20

IceAgeComing: Jan 29, 2013; pretty fucking embarrassing to watch

nothing to seehere posted:

Tories in the south-east are really scared of UKIP councils, this was posted in a strong labour seat UKIP are trying to gain.

I've just noticed that they got the Liberal and the UKIP candidates on the top the wrong way round...

# ? May 22, 2014 16:21

Necrothatcher: Mar 26, 2005

They wouldn't let me vote

# ? May 22, 2014 16:21

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Yeah seeing TUSC on my local list was a pleasant surprise after last time. Unless they're actually the devil, in which case gently caress

Also long time no see megathread, how's tricks? Still as unpleasant and horrible for those earning under �25k as usual?

# ? May 22, 2014 16:22

SybilVimes: Oct 29, 2011

Illuyankas posted:

Yeah seeing TUSC on my local list was a pleasant surprise after last time. Unless they're actually the devil, in which case gently caress

They're not perfect, but their hearts are in the right place for the most part.

# ? May 22, 2014 16:25

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Mr. Flunchy posted:

They wouldn't let me vote

Did they remember what you said about Saint Thatcher?

# ? May 22, 2014 16:27

Radio Prune: Feb 19, 2010

nothing to seehere posted:

Tories in the south-east are really scared of UKIP councils, this was posted in a strong labour seat UKIP are trying to gain.

Nice upholstery.

# ? May 22, 2014 16:27

Trickjaw: Jun 23, 2005; Nadie puede dar lo que no tiene

Aw. Was going to post the ex police Minister saying 'fuckwit' on live telltale at Lunchtime, but the killjoy edited it out. If bleeping is good enough for Kyle, why not the Daily Pols?

Spoilsports. Anyway, its 6:59 in
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=890567854293407&id=283348121682053&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FdCbzHDXnNy&_rdr

# ? May 22, 2014 16:29

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

Hey guys I was thinking of writing a wee blog about my time in St Petersburg from a Scottish Socialist perspective, I've already had some interesting culture clashes and learned some cool stuff, anyone have a good blog hosting site to recommend?

# ? May 22, 2014 16:30

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# ? May 24, 2024 14:21

IceAgeComing: Jan 29, 2013; pretty fucking embarrassing to watch

Samovar posted:

I saw a hell of a lot of rightest parties on the ballot (in Glasgow); was TEMPTED to vote Green for this election, but I went with SNP in the end, re. the Green's position on energy and GMOs.

Compared to other places: we had comparatively few lovely parties. We do admittedly have Britain First which probably is the most fascist of the fascist parties; but other than then, the BNP and UKIP its actually mostly OK.

# ? May 22, 2014 16:30

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT May: Elections! (which won't fix anything)

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