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Toshimo posted:I'm just sayin'. Awesome nut hand, bro, now reshuffle so we can play another game.
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May 22, 2014 17:51
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Toshimo posted:I'm just sayin'. EDH is different things to different people. It's unsanctionable for a good reason; not everybody plays it like that, but most people will with prizes on the line. EDIT: Zoness posted:Yeah and this statement is exactly why the current banlist is dumb - it's imposing the opinions of one group of players upon everyone that touches the format, specifically if you want to play it online. I mean, obviously, if you and your pals want to ignore the banlist, you can. I feel like the online experience can be added to the list of reasons MODO is lovely. LordSaturn fucked around with this message at 17:59 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 17:55
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LordSaturn posted:EDH is different things to different people. Yeah and this statement is exactly why the current banlist is dumb - it's imposing the opinions of one group of players upon everyone that touches the format, specifically if you want to play it online.
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May 22, 2014 17:57
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Zoness posted:Yeah and this statement is exactly why the current banlist is dumb - it's imposing the opinions of one group of players upon everyone that touches the format, specifically if you want to play it online. My opinion is that EDH is dumb and we shouldn't talk about it any more. I hereby impose my opinion on the thread. 
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May 22, 2014 17:58
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New Conspiracy cards:     Agent of Aquisitions is literally "I draft this entire pack" haha GonSmithe fucked around with this message at 18:06 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 17:59
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:My opinion is that EDH is dumb and we shouldn't talk about it any more. I hereby impose my opinion on the thread. I bet if EDH talk were in it's own thread it would quickly plummet to the bottom of the forum. People only talk about EDH to complain about EDH being dumb.
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May 22, 2014 18:02
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Cactrot posted:I bet if EDH talk were in it's own thread it would quickly plummet to the bottom of the forum. People only talk about EDH to complain about EDH being dumb. I would be okay with this.
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May 22, 2014 18:05
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LordSaturn posted:EDH is different things to different people. It's unsanctionable for a good reason; not everybody plays it like that, but most people will with prizes on the line. The whole point is that the banlist defines the format in ways that let you play with people outside your local playgroup. If I go to an event or store with strangers, we'll all be on the same page. I don't gripe when I go to a Legacy event and play against Storm and Show and Tell. I don't throw a tantrum when I go play Standard and see Boros Aggro, Esper Control, and Devotion decks. Those are what the format dictates as legal, and I play to the format. To see players go "No, Mana Crypt is just fine" and then 2 minutes later go "Oh you got a Mana Crypt nut draw, I scoop" is the most hyprocritical dumb turdlets of thought you can drop out of your mouth. I'm ok with stuff like Coalition Victory and Sundering Titan being on the list for flavor reasons, and not balance, but to try and justify why stuff that just takes the game off the rails like Mana Crypt and Hermit Druid are still legal takes some serious logical contortionism.
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May 22, 2014 18:06
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Thank you. Thank you for bringing the EDH banlist thread to this forum, so you can tell us all that we play EDH wrong and are stupid if we don't play it like you do. I am so glad that you did this.
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May 22, 2014 18:18
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Cactrot posted:I bet if EDH talk were in it's own thread it would quickly plummet to the bottom of the forum. People only talk about EDH to complain about EDH being dumb. EDH does one thing right, it allows you to have a deck "led" by someone. It really is an interesting flavor enhancing device that works quite well. Further the Highlander rule means that multiple games with the same deck should play out incredibly differently. Even with the partial paris rule. EDH is a format that you aren't supposed to be playing to win. Unlike every other magic format, it is closer to playing an RPG, where you take on the role of your commander. It is a Timmy/Johnny/Vorthos format. Its supposed to be a long, social, game. And if everyone played that way, then a ban list would be unnecessary. Unfortunately, for EDH players, most "established" magic players, willing to shell out the bucks to play, are somewhat "spikish" and are trying to win, not just to do cool things. The ban list isn't arbitrated by spikes, but by Timmys/Johnnys who remember the one unfun game. The banned list is ridiculous, it is unbalanced in the extreme, Sylvan Primordial is banned but not Necropotence? The banned list in EDH is trying to ban what Sheldon and company think is unfun. Not what is overly powerful, not what is dominant, but what is considered unfun. However, there is a decently well balanced EDH banlist, and that is the French EDH banlist. quote:Ancestral Recall Is this list perfect? No, but it bans the cards that are egregiously overpowered in an eternal format. Yes Zur seems weird, but a there are some powerful enchantments out there like Eldrazi Conscription, that can just end a game, and being in the command zone makes these cards powerful. tldr version: Edh is a cool format made to be played casually with winning being a necessary consequence of play, not a goal in and of itself. The banned list for it sucks, a more balanced one exists. Use the banned list that best suits the players in your group. Madmarker fucked around with this message at 18:27 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 18:23
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MiddleEastBeast posted:Does anyone know if the sources for some of the more oddball reprint choices for Conspiracy listed on mythicspoiler are legit? I'm looking through it and the smattering of common/uncommon reprints seems just random and all over the place. Things like Plated Seastrider and Courier Hawk just made me kinda go "huh?" Most of those cards came from this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U09xnozP3gQ If you look closely at the cards on the table and listen to what the players say, you can figure out reprints that were not specifically previewed.
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May 22, 2014 18:25
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LordSaturn posted:Thank you. Thank you for bringing the EDH banlist thread to this forum, so you can tell us all that we play EDH wrong and are stupid if we don't play it like you do. I am so glad that you did this. Unbelievable that people would talk about one of the most popular Magic: the Gathering formats in the Magic: the Gathering discussion thread and the commonly contested ban list.
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May 22, 2014 18:26
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This is why I don't play Commander any more.
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May 22, 2014 18:27
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Entropic posted:This is why I don't play Commander any more. I'm not a big fan of the format, but I like durdly control decks. So I built a deck that is just durdly control pieces with Oloro as the commander, and no ACTUAL way to win, outside attacking with Oloro. I get to play the type of game I want to play, and since I never win with the deck, no one really gets upset at my constant wrathing, countering and durdling.
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May 22, 2014 18:30
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Madmarker posted:However, there is a decently well balanced EDH banlist, and that is the French EDH banlist. Yeah. The French Banlist is a good place to start. There's a few things on there that aren't as relevant in multiplayer (Derevi, Edric, Mind Twist, and Serra Ascendant), but I'd be more likely to play with that banlist than the official one, if offered the choice. Madmarker posted:I'm not a big fan of the format, but I like durdly control decks. So I built a deck that is just durdly control pieces with Oloro as the commander, and no ACTUAL way to win, outside attacking with Oloro. I get to play the type of game I want to play, and since I never win with the deck, no one really gets upset at my constant wrathing, countering and durdling. There is a very large subset of players that would absolutely hate you for playing that sort of durdly kingmaker deck and making an hour-long game a four hour slog. You are either incredibly lucky to have a playgroup like that or incredibly unaware of how bad you are irritating some of them.
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May 22, 2014 18:30
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Toshimo posted:There is a very large subset of players that would absolutely hate you for playing that sort of durdly kingmaker deck and making an hour-long game a four hour slog. You are either incredibly lucky to have a playgroup like that or incredibly unaware of how bad you are irritating some of them. Oh no, I am quite aware how pissed off some people would be. It isnt the only EDH deck I have, and I don't play it in random pick up games. But with the people I play most often, it is the one I tend to gravitate towards. The other deck is just a Nekusar wheels deck, no one hates drawing cards. It is funny being the Nekusar player and having two other people in the pod playing group hug phelddagrif decks.
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May 22, 2014 18:35
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Toshimo posted:To see players go "No, Mana Crypt is just fine" and then 2 minutes later go "Oh you got a Mana Crypt nut draw, I scoop" is the most hyprocritical dumb turdlets of thought you can drop out of your mouth. I was pointing out that your "Oh man what if I have THIS two-hand start" argument literally only happens only rarely, whereas the entire point of the Command Zone is to always play your Commander during the game (and is thus more open to exploitation as opposed to getting a perfect starting hand). And the point of that comment wasn't to scoop, but that if a player gets that start AND somehow is able to sustain it with relevant cards, then that player has probably won the game. Have you never had a player get a nut hand and win the game in short order, and then agree to move on to another game? Jesus, buddy, I'm sorry Sheldon Menery and his EDH Illuminati literally murdered your entire family.
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May 22, 2014 18:38
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Its incredible how angry people who don't play EDH get about EDH. I've got some competitive decks but they've been sitting on the shelf for months because I keep winning games with a 100% on theme God of the Sea deck. Never in my life have I ever been so happy playing Magic the Gathering as when all my removal spells are Waves and I kill everyone with krakens or whales. The best part is that no one gets to complain: I won one game only because I had a Walking Sponge in play; I defeated someone's smug Iona-naming-blue with a Chromeshell Crab. EDH makes me so happy now, gently caress all yall.
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May 22, 2014 18:52
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Madmarker posted:However, there is a decently well balanced EDH banlist, and that is the French EDH banlist. I've never seen that list before, and it looks good. I wonder if my LGS would adopt that list though, since there are a few players that have decks that try to combo out an early win with things like Maze's End or whatever. That list would hit a couple of the cards in my deck as well but it's not like I'd give up on it because of that.
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May 22, 2014 18:54
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Madmarker posted:I'm not a big fan of the format, but I like durdly control decks. So I built a deck that is just durdly control pieces with Oloro as the commander, and no ACTUAL way to win, outside attacking with Oloro. I get to play the type of game I want to play, and since I never win with the deck, no one really gets upset at my constant wrathing, countering and durdling. My Zur deck's win con is 21 commander damage, dealt one at a time. It's really good 1-on-1 and worthless in team games because everyone sees Zur and kills me right away. My real win con is making sure my friend, who takes commander as seriously as I do, wins instead of the guys who min-max their decks and do their best to make sure nobody has fun but them. It also has my only "infinite" combo in any of my decks: Mindslaver and Lethal Vapors. It's the only combo bad enough for me to play.
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May 22, 2014 18:56
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bhsman posted:I was pointing out that your "Oh man what if I have THIS two-hand start" argument literally only happens only rarely, whereas the entire point of the Command Zone is to always play your Commander during the game (and is thus more open to exploitation as opposed to getting a perfect starting hand). The thing is that mana crypt is always nuts when it's in your opening hand. It's not some just nut combo draw. It's a really good card that accels you with zero tempo loss. It instantly puts you two turns ahead of the other players. There's no merit to the argument that a card is okay because it's only broken when you draw it. It's especially weird considering that the moxen are banned, but sol ring and mana crypt aren't, when those are almost always better than moxen. e: My favorite thing about the duelcommander banlist over the regular one is that grindstone is banned instead of painter's servant, as it should be. Dr. Stab fucked around with this message at 19:02 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 18:59
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Someone argue in favour of the hybrid mana ruling for EDH colour identity.
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May 22, 2014 19:01
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Sleep of Bronze posted:Someone argue in favour of the hybrid mana ruling for EDH colour identity. No
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May 22, 2014 19:02
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Dr. Stab posted:The thing is that mana crypt is always nuts when it's in your opening hand. It's not some just nut combo draw. It's a really good card that accels you with zero tempo loss. It instantly puts you two turns ahead of the other players. There's no merit to the argument that a card is okay because it's only broken when you draw it. Not disagreeing (I'm fine with Sol Ring due to the fact that it's so easy to get a copy, but would prefer to see Crypt banned), but Toshimo's point was about how the format is broken because of entirely random nut draws? That's just dumb. quote:It's especially weird considering that the moxen are banned, but sol ring and mana crypt aren't, when those are almost always better than moxen. I don't make the banlist, but I can chalk the Moxen bans up to just the name power of Power 9, so it feels fine. Sleep of Bronze posted:Someone argue in favour of the hybrid mana ruling for EDH colour identity. Isn't that what already happens? 
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May 22, 2014 19:05
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I'd be totally down with Commander as a format if it went by the Modern legality/ban conventions. Sure you'd lose some neat commanders like Lord of Tresserhorn and Phelddagrif, but you'd scrape out most of the degenerate stuff that predates consistent R&D.
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May 22, 2014 19:07
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Sleep of Bronze posted:Someone argue in favour of the hybrid mana ruling for EDH colour identity. What's that ruling? Is it how you can't use stuff with hybrid mana outside your colour identity? redstormpopcorn posted:I'd be totally down with Commander as a format if it went by the Modern legality/ban conventions. Sure you'd lose some neat commanders like Lord of Tresserhorn and Phelddagrif, but you'd scrape out most of the degenerate stuff that predates consistent R&D. Most people I've talked to about EDH agree that a huge part of it is using cool older cards, for flavour or effects, and the huge card pool is a big draw of the format. Serperoth fucked around with this message at 19:16 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 19:11
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bhsman posted:Not disagreeing (I'm fine with Sol Ring due to the fact that it's so easy to get a copy, but would prefer to see Crypt banned), but Toshimo's point was about how the format is broken because of entirely random nut draws? That's just dumb. It's broken if you want to break it. It really, really is. The key thing is to play with people who don't try to break it more or less than you do. That's what that 'social format' business is about.
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May 22, 2014 19:13
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Every commander argument comes down to the exact same thing: its a poo poo format when you play with poo poo people. If you really must play with a bad group, you can always make your very own rear end in a top hat deck, tailored to your meta. Sometimes doing that gets people to build less stupid poo poo, if only to avoid your hosers. If you have friends irl who are halfway decent people with a bit of creativity, its a fun format. That sounds like a tall order for most people here but there's a big community around me that meets the definition, sorry if yours doesn't.
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May 22, 2014 19:13
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redstormpopcorn posted:I'd be totally down with Commander as a format if it went by the Modern legality/ban conventions. Sure you'd lose some neat commanders like Lord of Tresserhorn and Phelddagrif, but you'd scrape out most of the degenerate stuff that predates consistent R&D. Some of the worst things you can do in this format involve newer cards, so that wouldn't actually work.
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May 22, 2014 19:17
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MANIFEST DESTINY posted:Every commander argument comes down to the exact same thing: its a poo poo format when you play with poo poo people. Yeah, this is pretty much the end all be all of the argument. My friends and I have fun on a weekly to semi-weekly basis between EDH and cube. Simple matter is that, like everything else, you have to pick good friends and if you have that, everything else follows just nicely. It's about like how you pick a D&D group.
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May 22, 2014 19:17
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commander.jpg e: Seriously, I have always said - just drink beer and play commander with buddies. Ban list? Lol.
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May 22, 2014 19:19
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Serperoth posted:What's that ruling? Is it how you can't use stuff with hybrid mana outside your colour identity? That you can't use a Kitchen Finks in mono-green or mono-white decks, yeah.
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May 22, 2014 19:20
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Ramos posted:It's about like how you pick a D&D group. I would argue there is an incredibly strong correlation between people who like P&P RPGS and people who like EDH.
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May 22, 2014 19:20
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MANIFEST DESTINY posted:Every commander argument comes down to the exact same thing: its a poo poo format when you play with poo poo people. No. Clearly my definition of fun is superior to your definition of fun.
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May 22, 2014 19:20
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MANIFEST DESTINY posted:Every commander argument comes down to the exact same thing: its a poo poo format when you play with poo poo people. Exactly this. Our playgroup have very creative ways to gently caress you over and a wide selection of them to choose from and we all do massive multiplayers or 2 or 3HG where you have to work as a team which is actually really fun.
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May 22, 2014 19:21
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Samael posted:Exactly this. Our playgroup have very creative ways to gently caress you over and a wide selection of them to choose from and we all do massive multiplayers or 2 or 3HG where you have to work as a team which is actually really fun. Do you ever play Emperor? I miss playing Emperor.
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May 22, 2014 19:24
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Brownhat posted:Do you ever play Emperor? I miss playing Emperor. We actually do  but one EDH deck is usually emperor while the other two decks are in another format.
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May 22, 2014 19:32
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The problem with EDH is it has too much variance. Like almost any format in any kind of game, it would benefit from scope reduction. An 'EDH Cube' or playgroup with a box of 8-15 premade decks that assume a certain power level is going to have way more fun with the game than a selection of randoms who are not trying to have fun the same way. It is held up as the grand nostalgic social multiplayer big Timmy splashy fun time, but it's obvious the format is completely broken to bits.
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May 22, 2014 19:39
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Sleep of Bronze posted:That you can't use a Kitchen Finks in mono-green or mono-white decks, yeah. I'll allow it. 
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May 22, 2014 19:39
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This reminds me that I need to put together a Type IV Stack for multiplayer pickup games.
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