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TMMadman posted:If 'playing to win' is going to be your criteria for determining the winner then you have would have had to vote for Kass if Woo took her to the final two because even if you don't agree with her decisions she was certainly playing to win. Kass wasn't playing to win at all, she actively reduced her chances to win in multiple occasions. In her own little deluded world she believed she was playing a winning game, but her belief bad moves were a good idea doesn't excuse them any more than Woo making arguably the dumbest move in Survivor history is excused by his justifications. There are a wide variety of ways to play a winning game, there isn't a lot of crossover between how Boston Rob, Sandra, and Parvati play the game. At the same time "I'm going to take someone I can't beat vs someone I can" has never and will never be a winning strategy no matter how Woo justifies it to himself. He threw away a million dollars and disrespected the game doing it. To go all Herm Edwards for a moment: you play to win the game! Edit: the Herm Edwards clip for any non-sports fans in the thread. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W42iiCcFbxE&feature=kp BGrifter fucked around with this message at 18:36 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 18:27
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BGrifter posted:To go all Herm Edwards for a moment: you play to win the game! 
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May 22, 2014 18:39
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LostRook posted:So I've been hearing chatter in some chat's now that Spencer comparing Woo to a dog is racist. Apparently, there is a historical context for comparing to Asians to dogs that I've never seen. Anyone know anything about this? He's a 21 year old kid. Maybe if he was Rudy, it could be read that way.
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May 22, 2014 18:40
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The Lord Bude posted:I'm in the middle of final tribal - Woo isn't Fabio - He's Coach, if someone gave Coach a lobotomy. Sarah looks significantly fatter than even the beginning of the season - I don't think I've ever seen that happen before, how can you possibly eat enough to put on that much weight in a couple of weeks? Woo talks like Fabio but... played like Colby. For me, Coach is full of poo poo cause he consistently talks about playing an honorable game at the beginning but then he'll make a promise that he eventually breaks. I'm still bitter that he royally screwed over Ozzie Spencer clearly did a David Murphy, whipping votes for Tony just as he did for Rob Mariano. How can you be a fan of the show and still make the mistakes of those who came before  . You could have been better than Yul, Woo  .
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May 22, 2014 18:42
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Khagan posted:Spencer clearly did a David Murphy, whipping votes for Tony just as he did for Rob Mariano. Spencer only did the half-Murphy, he didn't propose at the finale. 
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May 22, 2014 18:46
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BGrifter posted:Spencer only did the half-Murphy, he didn't propose at the finale. It was during the Reunion bruh, quote still stands.
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May 22, 2014 18:50
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Khagan posted:It was during the Reunion bruh, quote still stands. Finale/reunion, nobody's ever going to pull off The Full Murphy again. That one will stand the test of time. So awkward.
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May 22, 2014 18:52
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the truth posted:Yup.
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May 22, 2014 19:15
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Fast Luck posted:Doesn't it go in boot order? Wasn't Trish right before Spencer, and didn't Sarah go first, etc.? I was playing Guess The Votes during Final Tribal and I had it 6-3 Tony, revised down to 5-4 when they showed Tash voting Woo. 8-1 surprised the gently caress out of me.
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May 22, 2014 19:19
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BGrifter posted:Kass wasn't playing to win at all, she actively reduced her chances to win in multiple occasions. In her own little deluded world she believed she was playing a winning game, but her belief bad moves were a good idea doesn't excuse them any more than Woo making arguably the dumbest move in Survivor history is excused by his justifications. Despite hating Kass and thinking that the moves she made were dumb, she was very much playing to win. We have no idea if she would have made it to the final three had she stayed with Spencer, Tasha and company. Maybe they would have voted her out after getting rid of Trish and another player. Regardless of the outcome, flipping at that point was a move she made to help her try and win the game. Russell spent his seasons playing to win and when he brought Natalie to the finals he certainly thought he was bringing someone he could beat with him. But he still lost. Woo did not disrespect the game and saying he did is rather pompous and arrogant. I think the vote would have been a lot closer if Spencer hadn't stepped on his soapbox at the end.
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May 22, 2014 19:21
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Blood vs Water 2 will have Redemption Island again. muhhhhhhh.
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May 22, 2014 19:37
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TMMadman posted:Woo did not disrespect the game and saying he did is rather pompous and arrogant. I think the vote would have been a lot closer if Spencer hadn't stepped on his soapbox at the end. Hell, at this point I'll take it a step further: Woo is a quitter. He waited till the last possible moment and stuck around for the final tribal to collect that $100,000 cheque, but what he did was closer to what Purple Kelly, Na'Onka, Osten, Colton, Lindsay and others did. He had the game in his hands and he gave up. Now if Woo genuinely thought the best path to victory was against Tony, figuring his aggressive gameplay would alienate the jury, I would totally respect that. Unfortunately he made it clear that wasn't the case. There was an argument to be made for taking Tony in that spot, but Woo refused to make it. Instead he went to this goofy Tae Kwon Do code nonsense to avoid making the tough decision. Woo needed to own the move and say "I brought Tony because he pissed every single one of you off", he didn't. The first sign of any real pressure in the game Woo folded like a lawnchair.
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May 22, 2014 19:43
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Quest For Glory II posted:Blood vs Water 2 will have Redemption Island again. muhhhhhhh.
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May 22, 2014 19:52
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The Lord Bude posted:Sarah looks significantly fatter than even the beginning of the season - I don't think I've ever seen that happen before, how can you possibly eat enough to put on that much weight in a couple of weeks? She's pregnant, and it's way more than a couple of weeks from the time they leave the island to the finale, or do you mean she looked a lot bigger at finale tribal on the island? CapnAndy posted:I was playing Guess The Votes during Final Tribal and I had it 6-3 Tony, revised down to 5-4 when they showed Tash voting Woo. 8-1 surprised the gently caress out of me. When did they show the rest of the votes? On the episode, I only remember them showing votes until Tony got 5 plus the one for Woo so that's 6 votes. Did I zone out and miss them showing the other two?
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May 22, 2014 20:00
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violetdragon posted:When did they show the rest of the votes? On the episode, I only remember them showing votes until Tony got 5 plus the one for Woo so that's 6 votes. Did I zone out and miss them showing the other two?
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May 22, 2014 20:03
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violetdragon posted:She's pregnant, and it's way more than a couple of weeks from the time they leave the island to the finale, or do you mean she looked a lot bigger at finale tribal on the island? 
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May 22, 2014 20:04
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drat. I know a lot of contestants end up putting all the weight back on at Ponderosa and sometimes a little more but I can't remember anyone putting that much extra on by the time of final tribal.
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May 22, 2014 20:11
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CapnAndy posted:RI works with BvW I hate to admit it, but RI is considerably less awful with the BvW twist. I just hope they end it earlier in the game this time. If it were a pre-merge only twist I'd actually be pretty ok with it.
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May 22, 2014 20:24
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As long as its a 2person RI and not 3person I'm happy with it. The added interaction of RI is one of the reasons BvW works.
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May 22, 2014 20:26
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BGrifter posted:I hate to admit it, but RI is considerably less awful with the BvW twist. I just hope they end it earlier in the game this time. If it were a pre-merge only twist I'd actually be pretty ok with it.
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May 22, 2014 20:38
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I definitely agree because IMO the worst part about RI is the lack of reward challenges, a lot of strategy talk takes place there and it's always fun to watch the sore losers after they miss out on a reward.
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May 22, 2014 20:58
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quote:EW: Would you have kept your word and brought Tony to the final 2 with you had he saved you? So Spencer would not have taken Tony but Kass. Lets just imagine that the jury would have gone "dude you said you dont want our votes in this case, lets give Kass the million"
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May 22, 2014 21:05
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GaussianCopula posted:So Spencer would not have taken Tony but Kass. Lets just imagine that the jury would have gone "dude you said you dont want our votes in this case, lets give Kass the million"
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May 22, 2014 21:12
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Trish is a really annoying person. I'd rather be stuck on an island with Kass.
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May 22, 2014 21:31
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BGrifter posted:I hate to admit it, but RI is considerably less awful with the BvW twist. I just hope they end it earlier in the game this time. If it were a pre-merge only twist I'd actually be pretty ok with it. The problem with splitting the pairs up is that the audience didn't get to see them together, and the audience frankly might have trouble remembering who was whose loved one. However, because it was a season of half returning players, that gave us a reference point for everyone. They also added the "Day Zero" twist, so we could see the pairs together for a bit. In a BvW season of all new players, I think they're more likely to keep the pairs together and have a tribe of family members versus a tribe of married/dating players. Otherwise you have much more of a problem trying to remember who's paired with whom, and establishing the relationships. Redemption Island added drama in the BvW format we saw on screen because the players had a personal stake in what was going on in the other tribe. If they do the BvW format as originally planned, there's less tension because you don't really care who's voted out of the other tribe. You still have people rooting for their loved ones during the duels, though. On the other hand, keeping the pairs together in each tribe heightens the drama during the rest of the game. You're right there when your loved one is voted out. You're at the camp playing and making deals with people who might be considering voting out your loved one. Every time a member of a pair is voted out, you get the fallout from it--the outrage followed by a desperate scramble not to get voted out next. We saw a little of this in BvW when the tribes were merged, but by that point alliances had already been formed and fewer pairs were still intact.
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May 22, 2014 21:54
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TMMadman posted:Woo did not disrespect the game and saying he did is rather pompous and arrogant. I think the vote would have been a lot closer if Spencer hadn't stepped on his soapbox at the end. I think Spencer's little talk didn't matter at all. If you were thinking of voting Woo that condescending talk by Spencer would not sway you to vote Tony.
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May 22, 2014 22:49
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Genetic squares posted:I think Spencer's little talk didn't matter at all. If you were thinking of voting Woo that condescending talk by Spencer would not sway you to vote Tony. I actually kind of think Tony's response to Trish solidified any of the Jury still undecided to vote for him, because I'm not sure I've seen anyone own it like that before, and usually you can tell that's all the jury really wants as long as they aren't really bitter.
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May 22, 2014 22:55
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The Lord Bude posted:Sarah looks significantly fatter than even the beginning of the season - I don't think I've ever seen that happen before, how can you possibly eat enough to put on that much weight in a couple of weeks? Tony knocked her up on the island. I'm still not convinced that Tony's wife was actually on bedrest. I'm pretty sure she just hates his guts, and now she can divorce him and get half of the Survivor money. Either that or she actually isn't real. I really just have a hard time believing that that someone would really want to spend their life with him. I am glad he won though. sleepingbuddha fucked around with this message at 23:48 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 23:40
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I'm actually pretty pleased about the BvW2 thing. It makes for a complex social game out of the gate, not as much laying around on the beach.
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May 22, 2014 23:45
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sleepingbuddha posted:Tony knocked her up on the island. Vernacular posted:Tony didn't defend himself very well in front of the jury, but I'm glad the power of his game spoke for itself in the end. It was hilarious to see the jury still get their jabs in at Kass during their questions to Woo and Tony. I still think she brought something interesting to the table this year, and may have been able to change a few minds with some well-crafted responses to the jury if given the chance (probably not many, though).
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May 23, 2014 00:17
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TMMadman posted:Sometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needs. It's better when you can extract a million dollars though.
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May 23, 2014 01:21
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violetdragon posted:She's pregnant, and it's way more than a couple of weeks from the time they leave the island to the finale, or do you mean she looked a lot bigger at finale tribal on the island? I meant at final tribal council silly. She finished the game significantly fatter than she started it, despite starving for two weeks. In fact her face looked fatter at the end of tribal than it did at the reunion when she was actually pregnant.
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May 23, 2014 01:29
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I think it's possible to respect Woo's decision, and to also respect the game and vote for Tony.
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May 23, 2014 01:32
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Binary Logic posted:You must be joking. Of course I am. I loved Tony all season. Rick posted:I think it's possible to respect Woo's decision, and to also respect the game and vote for Tony. I don't respect his decision because Tony was totally the one that made up that rationalization and fed that decision to Woo. Woo seems like a super nice guy, but he is really loving dumb. "I’d be the stupidest Survivor player taking Tony to the end.”
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May 23, 2014 01:53
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It's hard for me to respect Woo's decision much because he never really articulated the reasoning. He mentioned wanting to take the strongest opponent to the end, but also mentioned something about being afraid the jury wouldn't respect him for bringing Kass (and thus vote for the person they hate to punish Woo???) and also something about honoring his loyalty with Tony. The last reason is especially silly given that no one except for Woo (including Tony!) ever thought Woo and Tony had an especially close bond with a strong sense of mutual loyalty. And if the first reason had any merit, he probably would have tried to go the end with Spencer. The real headscracther is that none of these weird reasons match his behavior for the first 37 days of the game, where he came across as naive but willing to backstab if need be, and at various points agreed to vote out (and some cases actually did vote out) his close allies Cliff, LJ, Jefra, and Trish.
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May 23, 2014 03:06
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Welp. I didn't count on Woo being so stupid. Amazing. I think Tony definitely deserves credit for his pitch to Woo to keep him. Although, it was a really, really awkward tribal council, and almost everyone save Morgan was PISSED. I am honestly surprised after the invective launched against Tony by Sarah, Jeremiah, and Trish, that they voted for him anyway. But Woo's pitch was pretty lousy. Anyway, great season, decent winner (best would have been Tasha, but that wasn't gonna happen, siiiiigh). Looking forward to the next season. I'm going to at least watch the first Blood vs. Water first, though. gently caress, I'm considering watching all the seasons considered "good" that I haven't seen, or haven't seen in a very long time. So, Borneo, Australia, Marquesas, The Amazon, maybe Guatemala, Panama, Heroes vs. Villains, Caramoan, Blood vs. Water. I've heard mixed things about Africa, One World, and South Pacific. Are they worth it?
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May 23, 2014 04:07
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Spatula City posted:I've heard mixed things about Africa, One World, and South Pacific. Are they worth it? Africa yes, One World and South Pacific no unless you're out of Survivor to watch. (Nicaragua excepted as it's the worst) Both seasons were godawful.
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May 23, 2014 04:14
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Spatula City posted:Welp. I didn't count on Woo being so stupid. Amazing. I think Tony definitely deserves credit for his pitch to Woo to keep him. Although, it was a really, really awkward tribal council, and almost everyone save Morgan was PISSED. I am honestly surprised after the invective launched against Tony by Sarah, Jeremiah, and Trish, that they voted for him anyway. But Woo's pitch was pretty lousy. It's not a great season but watching South Pacific helps you appreciate Caramoan more.
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May 23, 2014 04:52
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I thought that was a disappointing final council to a very good season. That's no real surprise as I tend to be disappointed by the final councils. But Tony was a delusional pussy who didn't own his game and instead got defensive and tried to rationalize poo poo like he did all game (basically exactly what Parv said not to do earlier). And Woo simply lacks the ability to frame his game or address the jurors in a way to turn things. I don't know if Spencer's sanctimonious speech changed it or if the jury were just venting on Tony, but either way I guess he deserved the win even if he sure tried to lose at the end there. I dug the season and would have no matter who won. I think the fact that I didn't like Spencer meant I didn't get all demoralized a third of the way through like a lot of you guys did but either way I think the game kind of loses its fun once you get down to the final five or four anyway. I would have liked to see Woo win because he's the only one I like and part of me would have gotten a kick out of Kass winning but Tony was the most deserving. So its all good. It was a good season. I think people declaring it one of the worst if someone they didn't like won was sad and silly but Tony should solve that. The Spencer fans can even feel he won it for Tony so I guess everyone wins.
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May 23, 2014 04:52
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The best part about Tony winning is that now people know that playing aggressively can still be a winning strategy, so we can expect tons of insane players going no-holds-barred next season.
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May 23, 2014 04:56
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