|
WickedHate posted:I still think Goku coming back for the Buu saga was a huge mistake. Vegito was cool and almost made up for it. Of course even the half-Goku fusion wasn't Goku enough so they had to break that apart too. If I could point out one particular problem with the Buu saga, it's that they have too many god drat twists and turns with the fights. Every time the protagonists think they've got this poo poo handled, they're wrong. Every time Buu thinks he's got poo poo handled, he's wrong. This poo poo happens a hundred times until finally it's somehow back to Goku using the Spirit Bomb yet a-loving-gain, except for once it actually does something.
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 18:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 14:11 |
|
|
WickedHate posted:I still think Goku coming back for the Buu saga was a huge mistake. I actually didn't mind it too much at first because of how they used Goku most of the time, the real huge mistake was devoting entire subplots to other characters getting strong enough to handle the menace on their own terms and then instantly nullifying them so Goku ends up having to save the day anyway. What they did to Gohan in the second half of the Buu arc was just unfair.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 18:51
|
|
|
Super Jay Mann posted:I actually didn't mind it too much at first because of how they used Goku most of the time, the real huge mistake was devoting entire subplots to other characters getting strong enough to handle the menace on their own terms and then instantly nullifying them so Goku ends up having to save the day anyway. What they did to Gohan in the second half of the Buu arc was just unfair. Not to mention the entire point of Goku deciding to stay in the afterlife to begin with was that he wanted his friends and family to be more self-reliant, because he had been their trump card since forever. Having Goku fix everything again is such bullshit, totally ruining his intent.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 18:55
|
|
|
Super Jay Mann posted:I actually didn't mind it too much at first because of how they used Goku most of the time, the real huge mistake was devoting entire subplots to other characters getting strong enough to handle the menace on their own terms and then instantly nullifying them so Goku ends up having to save the day anyway. What they did to Gohan in the second half of the Buu arc was just unfair. Watching Gohan sit and stare like a dumbass while Goku's telling him to catch that drat earring still makes me mad.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 18:58
|
|
|
Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Vegito was cool and almost made up for it. Of course even the half-Goku fusion wasn't Goku enough so they had to break that apart too. "hmmm...this is pretty Goku. But it's not quite Goku enough"
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 18:58
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:Watching Gohan sit and stare like a dumbass while Goku's telling him to catch that drat earring still makes me mad. I hope in DBZA he refuses to catch it because he really does't want to fuse with his absentee father.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 19:01
|
|
|
VanSandman posted:I hope in DBZA he refuses to catch it because he really does't want to fuse with his absentee father. Honestly it's kinda fuckin' creepy.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 19:06
|
|
|
Elfgames posted:Honestly it's kinda fuckin' creepy. Especially since Goku knows it's forever. Goku, how the gently caress are you going to explain this one to Chi-Chi?
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 19:07
|
|
|
Lumberjack Bonanza posted:
So basically Madara from Naruto. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Not to mention the entire point of Goku deciding to stay in the afterlife to begin with was that he wanted his friends and family to be more self-reliant, because he had been their trump card since forever. Having Goku fix everything again is such bullshit, totally ruining his intent. Vegeta coming back to life also completely ruins his heroic sacrifice. I mean, more then it not killing Buu already did.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 19:10
|
|
|
No, what Vegeta did is still cool because the whole point was that he'd finally let go of his past and realized he was content with his life on Earth, and was willing to die for its sake. I mean yeah it failed spectacularly and this being DBZ death is barely a slap on the wrist but it's the thought that counts!Spiritus Nox posted:Watching Gohan sit and stare like a dumbass while Goku's telling him to catch that drat earring still makes me mad. That wasn't even the worst part. You had Gohan MIA for god knows how many episodes doing literally nothing so that they could unlock his true potential for real, and then when it finally happens and Gohan gets to fight at his true purest form for real against the most powerful foe the universe has seen he... barely gets three episodes in before Super Buu powers up and kicks his rear end enough that Goku has to bail him out with the earrings. Dropping the earrings and getting absorbed himself was just adding insult to injury.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 19:22
|
|
|
VanSandman posted:I hope in DBZA he refuses to catch it because he really does't want to fuse with his absentee father. ...He'll dodge it. On reflex.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 19:37
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:...He'll dodge it. On reflex. Oh my god, that would be such a payoff. 
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 19:44
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:...He'll dodge it. On reflex. Better yet: Super Buu yells at him to DODGE!
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 22:27
|
|
|
Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Better yet: Super Buu yells at him to DODGE! When buu absorbs Piccolo and becomes super rear end in a top hat should be fun.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 22:30
|
|
|
Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Especially since Goku knows it's forever. Goku, how the gently caress are you going to explain this one to Chi-Chi? I'm pretty sure Goku realized how ridiculously awkward it would be, but also that he had no other choice. Well until Vegeta came along.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 22:36
|
|
|
I sure hope that by the buu saga they aren't still rehashing old jokes like "dodge"
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 22:39
|
|
|
Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Better yet: Super Buu yells at him to DODGE! No. Reflex is better. Better yet have it be the only time ever that he dodges something. Namtab posted:I sure hope that by the buu saga they aren't still rehashing old jokes like "dodge" But it never stops being funny. 'Booting dodge.exe'
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 22:40
|
|
|
Namtab posted:I sure hope that by the buu saga they aren't still rehashing old jokes like "dodge" If you don't do it every episode and let it simmer over time before bringing it back, I think that's grounds to refer to it as a "callback" as opposed to a "rehash"
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 22:41
|
|
|
hey team four star, you've done well so far but I think you'll gently caress everything up unless you start doing everything I say from here on out
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 22:50
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:When buu absorbs Piccolo and becomes super rear end in a top hat should be fun. Super Buu absorbing Piccolo and getting three annoying voices in his head would be gold.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2014 23:08
|
|
|
Goku being the one to save the day is definitely a trend going all the way back to the Red Ribbon arc. All of the other characters are gearing up to help him out, but when they get there he's already mopped up. Kuririn and Yamcha look like doofuses when they fight Uranai Baba's monsters. And then Tenshinhan is completely useless against King Piccolo and doesn't even get to defeat Drum. Finally you have everyone gawking while Goku fights Piccolo Jr.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 00:01
|
|
|
Honestly I have no issues with Goku coming back to save the day in the Buu saga. The Buu saga is pretty terrible to begin with; and if Toriyama went into it knowing it was the last arc then it's dumb to set up so many new characters and give the series new life for it to just end there. The series really should have ended it at the Cell saga and no one would have had issues with it.Blue Star posted:Goku being the one to save the day is definitely a trend going all the way back to the Red Ribbon arc. All of the other characters are gearing up to help him out, but when they get there he's already mopped up. Kuririn and Yamcha look like doofuses when they fight Uranai Baba's monsters. And then Tenshinhan is completely useless against King Piccolo and doesn't even get to defeat Drum. Finally you have everyone gawking while Goku fights Piccolo Jr. A thousand times this. If anyone complains about Z being "Goku saves the day AGAIN" then they haven't seen the original series.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 00:36
|
|
|
crankdatbatman posted:A thousand times this. If anyone complains about Z being "Goku saves the day AGAIN" then they haven't seen the original series. My original issue wasn't that Goku saves the day every time, but rather in GT he was the only character who did anything of note until Vegeta went SSj4. In the previous series' most of the time everyone had a chance to shine at one point or another, but in GT they all became side-characters while Goku did literally everything.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 00:44
|
|
|
crankdatbatman posted:Honestly I have no issues with Goku coming back to save the day in the Buu saga. The Buu saga is pretty terrible to begin with; and if Toriyama went into it knowing it was the last arc then it's dumb to set up so many new characters and give the series new life for it to just end there. The series really should have ended it at the Cell saga and no one would have had issues with it. I've seen the original series and it's still dumb as hell. Buu could have been a pretty good wrap-up; they stuck with Gohan inheriting his dad's responsibilities, instead it's just like "Oh, Goku did it again. And now he's leaving again, after it was just demonstrated that these jokers still need him badly." It's one thing for Goku to save the day, that's typical. It's another to do all this build-up to do something different and then just abruptly change your mind.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 01:04
|
|
|
Esroc posted:Vegeta went SSj4. I completely forgot Vegeta did that. I sort of remember him being possessed by Baby, AKA lovely rehash fusion of buy and cell, (why does that keep happening), and I remember the golden oozaru, but I can't remember what ssj4 Vegeta looks like. All I remember of GT before that was general dildo, and after that 17 becoming jet li's The One, Goku being dumber than usual, then the lovely character designs of the dragons. Did I miss anything?
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 01:29
|
|
|
visceril posted:I completely forgot Vegeta did that. I sort of remember him being possessed by Baby, AKA lovely rehash fusion of buy and cell, (why does that keep happening), and I remember the golden oozaru, but I can't remember what ssj4 Vegeta looks like. The 'stache.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 01:39
|
|
|
visceril posted:lovely character designs of the dragons. I thought Omega Shenron was kinda cool. The back spikes were a bit too much, but the rest is pretty neat. 
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 01:40
|
|
|
Well, I just finished the entire Dragon Ball manga. I had never finished the Majin Buu saga in the anime, so a lot of the stuff in the last arc was new to me. I have some of the same mixed feelings everyone else has, although in the Buu saga, our heroes seemed more screwed than they ever were before. I also did like the spirit bomb at the end and that seemed like a good way to cap things off. I wonder if I should try watching the anime \ movies \ GT now to see the things that weren't in the manga.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 03:21
|
|
|
Gammatron 64 posted:Well, I just finished the entire Dragon Ball manga. I had never finished the Majin Buu saga in the anime, so a lot of the stuff in the last arc was new to me. I have some of the same mixed feelings everyone else has, although in the Buu saga, our heroes seemed more screwed than they ever were before. I also did like the spirit bomb at the end and that seemed like a good way to cap things off. Don't do it
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 03:58
|
|
|
Stay the gently caress away from GT.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 04:13
|
|
|
I stand by watching the Vegeta scenes on youtube. 
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 04:16
|
|
|
At least GT is short. Only what, like 80ish episodes? Unfortunately while a lot of GT's problems are the ridiculously terrible trainwreck bullshit Toei made up, I'm gonna say at least half the issue is that it's just boring and not fun to watch. Most of the hunt for the Black Star Dragon Balls is a really half-hearted attempt to recreate the adventurous aspects of the original Dragon Ball. The whole Bebi part has some interesting things but is mostly uninspired and has a lot of unfortunate decisions regarding the handling of certain characters (mostly Gohan, Vegeta, and Uub imo). Super 17 is borderline cool but is basically the same as the poorer movie villains in that he's pretty much invincible until Goku Does A Thing. 4 of the Shadow Dragons are complete jokes and a chore to watch. Nouva and Eis are halfway decent but then Omega Shenron happens and is just tedious and boring.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 04:50
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR46WbmYFyQ Step into the grand tour grand tour grand tour 
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 04:52
|
|
|
Esroc posted:My original issue wasn't that Goku saves the day every time, but rather in GT he was the only character who did anything of note until Vegeta went SSj4. In the previous series' most of the time everyone had a chance to shine at one point or another, but in GT they all became side-characters while Goku did literally everything. I've seen maybe half an episode of GT because it looks like pure and utter garbage both plotwise and aesthetically, so you could be right. I was more referring to the Buu saga.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 05:02
|
|
|
Lumberjack Bonanza posted:I've seen the original series and it's still dumb as hell. Buu could have been a pretty good wrap-up; they stuck with Gohan inheriting his dad's responsibilities, instead it's just like "Oh, Goku did it again. And now he's leaving again, after it was just demonstrated that these jokers still need him badly." Sorry for the double post but I'm on my phone. I still don't see how you could argue narratively that the Buu Saga done without Goku's return would be a better ending than the Cell Saga. That way it just kind of sticks out as a weird story arch that hangs off of Dragon Ball, which is in short the legacy of Goku. The series is about Goku, no one really cares that Gohan can beat a bad guy by himself.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 05:06
|
|
|
crankdatbatman posted:Sorry for the double post but I'm on my phone. I still don't see how you could argue narratively that the Buu Saga done without Goku's return would be a better ending than the Cell Saga. That way it just kind of sticks out as a weird story arch that hangs off of Dragon Ball, which is in short the legacy of Goku. The series is about Goku, no one really cares that Gohan can beat a bad guy by himself. I think Toriyama could have had his cake and ate it too, with only some minor alterations to the plot. Instead of bringing Goku back for the tournament, barely mention him at first. Let things unfold as they did with a few tweaks. Namely Vegeta goes Majin in exchange for Babidi promising him to revive Goku for a rematch in the future if he helps to unleash Buu. Just general stuff like that to keep the overall plot intact. But leave Goku out of it for the most part. This would also lend more impact to Veggie's sacrifice. As he would decide to give up his life after realizing the danger Buu represents, despite never getting his rematch, showing even more how far he's progressed as a hero. Have the kids learn fusion some other way, nix SSj3 Gotenks entirely and just pump up SSj1/2 Gotenks in power so he can still play his role. Have everything else play out mostly the same with Gohan returning in his Mystic Form and fulfilling his original role of fighting Buu until absorption. But this time he's the one who rejects it via deus ex mystic hooplah and freeing everyone inside Buu, fulfilling Vegetto's role. Vegetto is pretty cool as a gimmick, but I don't find him crucial to the plot. Then everything goes to shite, everyone dies and Kid Buu invades Otherworld, that's when they reveal Goku has been watching all this unfold and is there waiting and ready for Kid Buu. He pops SSj3 for a big reveal, deceased Gohan and Vegeta join him in the brawl fulfilling a triumvirate of the original Saiyans. Spirit Bomb. Wish everyone back. Roll credits.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 05:43
|
|
|
I'm watching GT dubbed to skip the annoying voices and skipped to when Baby was awakened to lessen the strain of even watching and its fine...I guess.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 05:59
|
|
|
I couldn't stand the music for the GT dub so I never watched more than a bit of it here and there. It had an awful soundtrack.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 06:25
|
|
|
crankdatbatman posted:Sorry for the double post but I'm on my phone. I still don't see how you could argue narratively that the Buu Saga done without Goku's return would be a better ending than the Cell Saga. That way it just kind of sticks out as a weird story arch that hangs off of Dragon Ball, which is in short the legacy of Goku. The series is about Goku, no one really cares that Gohan can beat a bad guy by himself. Don't get me wrong, Cell would have been a better ending either way. If they were gonna go forward, though, it just seems dumb to go back on everything that got set up when they decided to go forward.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 06:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 14:11 |
|
|
I can think of a million ways to improve the Buu saga, some of which might actually be objectively better as opposed to just being my dumb preferences, but it's still my favorite. No matter how many problems it has, I think it has a lot of the funnest moments in the entire series. Also, Mr. Satan all the way through instead of just at the end.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 06:47
|
|