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Sven posted:Any one got some pointers on the hammer spirit outside the doors to drangleic castle on NG+? that spinning move he does is wrecking my poo poo. Shoot him from afar, like with basically every other dangerous thing in the game.
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May 25, 2014 05:06
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Space Hamlet posted:Sure, I believe that there's probably something intentional about it, but if it's such a huge bugbear for so many people then it's clear that their intention didn't come through clearly. The way you could see both Ash Lake and the Demon Ruins, two very different areas with complete opposite color schemes, from the Tomb of the Giants? That was obviously surreal in an intentional way. The way you move from a dark subterranean cave to the Kiln, a huge outdoor area? Clearly intentional. The way the lake in Darkroot still reflects sunlight even though that's the only area in the game where it's night? Subtle but intentional, and justified by the motifs of the world's mythology. What that elevator ride lacks is any sign that it's intentional, even if you can kinda see how it might be. Fair enough, it just bothers me that people treat it like some huge oversight by From's extremely meticulous level designers. Rather than seeing it as a lazy error, I wish they'd think about what it could mean if Drangleic has impossible geography. I'm not sure would have made it more apparent though short of some really unsubtle visual and audio effects or the geography literally changing in front of your eyes instead of being stuck in a long stone elevator.
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May 25, 2014 05:09
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what are the best sorceries for PvP? I've been just starting to dabble in it and haven't used much other than Crystal Magic Weapon, Soul Greatsword and Homing Crystal Soulmass.
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May 25, 2014 05:10
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Internet Kraken posted:There's no kind of significance in the transition from Earthen Peak to Iron Keep. It just feels like a place where they had to cut out a level and didn't have time to connect the area in a better way. The elevator itself is a bit dodgy, the ironwork on the sides are just lo-res texture planes that I wonder if they just copied straight out of King's Field. Are there special conditions needed to get the Old Whip from the birds? I've gotten tons of Demon Great Hammers and Channeler's Tridents but never the whip.
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May 25, 2014 05:11
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Paracelsus posted:Are there special conditions needed to get the Old Whip from the birds? I've gotten tons of Demon Great Hammers and Channeler's Tridents but never the whip. Nope. I've gotten like 5 old whips from them.
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May 25, 2014 05:11
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SMP posted:Fair enough, it just bothers me that people treat it like some huge oversight by From's extremely meticulous level designers. Rather than seeing it as a lazy error, I wish they'd think about what it could mean if Drangleic has impossible geography. I'm not sure would have made it more apparent though short of some really unsubtle visual and audio effects or the geography literally changing in front of your eyes instead of being stuck in a long stone elevator. It might be more compelling as a visual symbol if the same thing seemed to happen anywhere else in the game. I do like the idea that the game wants to take place in this world which is so overdue for expiration that it's gotten too old and tired to remain coherent. I really believe that was the concept. It's just that the game does basically nothing to sell that idea. An idea alone doesn't make for a good world design.
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May 25, 2014 05:12
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Internet Kraken posted:Not sure how Demon's souls is better in this regard, given that the areas in Demon's Souls were connected via warp points. They may have been packaged out into warps, but they were all internally consistent and you could see everything from within those levels. The tightly wound geography is a thing they've been doing since King's Field, it's just something people expect from From Software. SMP posted:Fair enough, it just bothers me that people treat it like some huge oversight by From's extremely meticulous level designers. Rather than seeing it as a lazy error, I wish they'd think about what it could mean if Drangleic has impossible geography. I'm not sure would have made it more apparent though short of some really unsubtle visual and audio effects or the geography literally changing in front of your eyes instead of being stuck in a long stone elevator. That's a little harder to believe given that you have a lot of areas that branch off of Shaded Woods that overlap if overlayed together and you have whole areas just completely disconnected like Lost Bastille. It feels more like they had to either accommodate their new focus on wide open spaces by ignoring the overlap or spread everything out even more and leave large boring sections of walking. The former is the right choice but it's a shame to no longer have the whole "I can see three bosses out from here." The Iron Keep being missing from the Earthen Peak skyline just seems like part of that compromise. They wanted a volcano castle in the mountains and they wanted their giant windmill level, the skybox just isn't as important as neat levels. TGLT fucked around with this message at 05:18 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 05:15
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You gotta link to the Darksouls 3D map too! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyTB5vhKGSI Its pretty neat seeing how the world in DS fit together and consistently. Even with a few subtle overlaps there didn't feel anything that was blatantly out of place.
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May 25, 2014 05:51
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Space Hamlet posted:It might be more compelling as a visual symbol if the same thing seemed to happen anywhere else in the game. I dunno, if you take everything together there's plenty of evidence to suggest something is fundamentally broken about either the geography of Drangleic or the way your character experiences it, possibly both. The impossible geography isn't necessarily in-your-face in a really obvious "this is meant to be nonsensical" way, but Earthen Peak to Iron Keep is hardly the only impossible transition; No-Man's Wharf should be well below sea level considering Heide's is falling into the ocean, the Forest of Fallen Giants seems to be farther away from Majula than the distance you travel indicates, nothing about that aqueduct with Licia's rotating gate makes sense, etc. etc. I don't think it's a coincidence that one of the earliest NPCs you're likely to meet is a cartographer with a long-term subplot about a giant map of the continent (or that said map implies a much larger landmass than the one you traverse in-game, especially when you consider where the flames pop up), and the sense of geographical disconnect that comes out of being able to warp from the start of the game feels very deliberate. I tend to look at it like this: where Lordran was a land unstuck in time, Drangleic is a land unstuck in space, and while there's a real appeal to DS1's heavily interconnected world that I'm sorry to see go I think framing DS2's world as more of a series of disconnected Demon's Souls-style "levels" was a deliberate move on From's part, not just something they did because they were too lazy to make Dark Souls Again.
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May 25, 2014 05:58
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I don't think that the odd world design is intentional and also don't give a poo poo that things overlap and neither should you.
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May 25, 2014 06:03
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Opposing Farce posted:I dunno, if you take everything together there's plenty of evidence to suggest something is fundamentally broken about either the geography of Drangleic or the way your character experiences it, possibly both. The impossible geography isn't necessarily in-your-face in a really obvious "this is meant to be nonsensical" way, but Earthen Peak to Iron Keep is hardly the only impossible transition; No-Man's Wharf should be well below sea level considering Heide's is falling into the ocean, the Forest of Fallen Giants seems to be farther away from Majula than the distance you travel indicates, nothing about that aqueduct with Licia's rotating gate makes sense, etc. etc. I don't think it's a coincidence that one of the earliest NPCs you're likely to meet is a cartographer with a long-term subplot about a giant map of the continent (or that said map implies a much larger landmass than the one you traverse in-game, especially when you consider where the flames pop up), and the sense of geographical disconnect that comes out of being able to warp from the start of the game feels very deliberate. Like I said, I can easily believe that it was the intention. My problem with the world design isn't exactly that it's not interconnected - my problem is that if spatial impossibility was a theme, it fails to be clear that it was anything other than a mistake. In short, it doesn't do anything with the idea, and it comes off as an excuse for having areas which don't make sense. Trading the incredible love and attention that went into designing Lordran for a half-baked visual motif which most players think (possibly correctly!) is a blatant error was not a good exchange, no matter how cool it might have been.
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May 25, 2014 06:04
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I don't think that spacial impossibility is a theme so much as it's a result of them focusing on other, more important things. That said, the areas in the game are a hell of a lot further apart in the world than the player character experiences. According to the map in the guide (or wherever that map came from), there's a huge mountain range between the Earthen Peak and Iron Keep (for example.)
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May 25, 2014 06:07
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What makes me believe that the odditys in transitions were intentional was the short tunnel behind the shrine of winter changing the weather and time of day from a cloudy day to a rainy moonlit night, that takes it a step beyond what could be just a missed design error into intentional. But that still doesn't mean the earthen peak iron keep transition wasn't done poorly even if it was intentional. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 06:17 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 06:10
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King of Solomon posted:I don't think that spacial impossibility is a theme so much as it's a result of them focusing on other, more important things. This is quite likely, and if true it would boil down to Dark Souls 2 being a bit more rushed than its predecessor - perhaps they couldn't spend so much time designing a cohesive world because they had to spend that effort on designing super awesome bosses like Dragonrider! What I'm basically trying to get across, here, is why I think people's criticisms are justified. Dark Souls 1 set a very high bar which this game doesn't really reach, as fun as it is.
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May 25, 2014 06:11
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Space Hamlet posted:This is quite likely, and if true it would boil down to Dark Souls 2 being a bit more rushed than its predecessor - perhaps they couldn't spend so much time designing a cohesive world because they had to spend that effort on designing super awesome bosses like Dragonrider! Hey, bosses don't commit suicide like that every day, y'know! You have to put a lot of effort into making that possible. To your edit: frankly, my only problem with it is that they tried to make the game more like Demon's Souls but completely failed at capitalizing on what made Demon's Souls so good. They took a half step in that direction and found themselves in a place that isn't as good as either game. King of Solomon fucked around with this message at 06:16 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 06:13
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Colapops posted:Shoot him from afar, like with basically every other dangerous thing in the game. Yeah i ended up cheesing him with a bow.
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May 25, 2014 06:15
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Cardboard Box posted:what are the best sorceries for PvP? I've been just starting to dabble in it and haven't used much other than Crystal Magic Weapon, Soul Greatsword and Homing Crystal Soulmass. The best sorcery for PvP is to stop using sorcery. :EDIT: For something actually helpful, Crystal Greatsword is really good, the homing ones are good, Soul Spear is decent.
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May 25, 2014 06:15
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Space Hamlet posted:This is quite likely, and if true it would boil down to Dark Souls 2 being a bit more rushed than its predecessor - perhaps they couldn't spend so much time designing a cohesive world because they had to spend that effort on designing super awesome bosses like Dragonrider! I mean, yeah, the world building in DS2 has some issues, but are you really slamming the game based on Dragonrider? DS1 had lovely bosses too buddy.
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May 25, 2014 06:16
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Space Hamlet posted:This is quite likely, and if true it would boil down to Dark Souls 2 being a bit more rushed than its predecessor - perhaps they couldn't spend so much time designing a cohesive world because they had to spend that effort on designing super awesome bosses like Dragonrider! Dark Souls 2 was completely functional on release and has no area like Lost Izalith, so no, by no stretch was it more rushed than its predecessor. Dragonrider is a simple boss because it's a possible first boss. Reminder: Dark Souls 2 was intended to be more accessible to the new player than its predecessors, and simple bosses with minor gimmicks are a way to do that.
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May 25, 2014 06:17
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kazil posted:I mean, yeah, the world building in DS2 has some issues, but are you really slamming the game based on Dragonrider? DS1 had lovely bosses too buddy. My point was that the lost effort in designing a cohesive world didn't really pay off in terms of shoring up the parts of Dark Souls 1 which were also kinda weak. Dark Souls 2 has several new weaknesses and few new strengths. Edit: Certainly nothing in DS2 is quite as weak as Lost Izalith, but then again I do groan every time I embark upon pirates-of-the-caribbean-if-it-were-ash-grey zone and burn-the-iron-windmill-so-you-can-face-the-spurned-lover-snake-lady zone and what is even with all the desert themed enemies just hanging out in various parts of the game, it feels like there was meant to be a desert area and they just kept all the enemies and put them wherever Space Hamlet fucked around with this message at 06:22 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 06:18
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The level quality in 2 is far better than it was in 1. And I personally enjoy many of the bosses as much, if not more than the ones in 1 as well.
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May 25, 2014 06:20
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Space Hamlet posted:My point was that the lost effort in designing a cohesive world didn't really pay off in terms of shoring up the parts of Dark Souls 1 which were also kinda weak. Dark Souls 2 has several new weaknesses and few new strengths. Dark Souls 2 has no Lost Izalith. Dark Souls 2 has no Bed of Chaos. I think I might find this a good trade-off for having an awkward transition between two of the zones.
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May 25, 2014 06:21
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I quite like those two zones, so hey, subjectivity, you know? No-Man's Wharf is pretty different from the previous two games and Earthen Peak is just kind of neat.
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May 25, 2014 06:24
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The two worst bosses in DS2 in my option are the royal rat authority and Nashandra, RRA because it's a less fun Sif fight that is entirely depended on whether you can kill 4 small rats without being hit, which can be annoying without magic or if your favorite weapon decides to just swing over their heads. And Nashandra just does not hold a candle to Gwyn or even Manus as a final boss in any way shape or form, the final boss should not be slow and unaggressive enough that you can snipe them out of harms way, they should be in your face all the time and make you pray for a brief window where you can drink a estus before the barrage begins again.
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May 25, 2014 06:25
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Mighty Dicktron posted:I quite like those two zones, so hey, subjectivity, you know? Of course, there's no accounting for taste. I even kinda like Lost Izalith in many ways (although I certainly see that they ran out of time while making it) V  VI think I've made my point regarding the transitions and the cohesion, so I won't drag this thread into a bickering argument about why I find a lot of the mid-game levels kinda boring - which is a different topic entirely. Suffice it to say that the first game generally felt more inspired to me, and that tickles me pinker than what Dark Souls 2 does right.
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May 25, 2014 06:27
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The two worst bosses in DS2 in my opinion are Vendrick and the Ancient Dragon because they're both boring and gimmicky. At least there's, like, literally nothing behind Ancient Dragon.
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May 25, 2014 06:28
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I've been having a lot of fun tweaking my Monarch (from venture bros) poison build, mythas bent blade is almost impossible to hit with in pvp but if you do nick someone a few times it's essentially game over. I was kinda hoping to be lower SM (i'm about 1.7mil now) but the petrified dragon bones and my need to be wearing Vendricks crown boosted me up more then I would have preferred. Currently my mainhand is a +10(? max anyways) poison maneater, switchable to a currently +3 poison spotted whip and my offhand is +5 mythas and my pyro flame, stacked of course with all the mists just for the hell of it. I also pack poison throwing knives, woulda preferred corrosive urns but alas I was dumb and forgot to take off my butterfly costume when I went to visit the rat king, I"ll probably hit up ng+ before too long anyways but I still regret harming my rat king buddy. My desire to gently caress around and better learn my ranges and timing means I've lost about as much as I've won today but it was still amazingly fun and only took me a handful of hours to put together. I almost pity all the try hard hexers and havelyns and santier suckers, such boring builds and they really aren't that much more effective then my putz build I'm not even really used to yet.
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May 25, 2014 06:31
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No-man's Wharf really, really needs a second shortcut toward the end of the level, but it's such a fantastic zone. The calling the ship in and then fighting the boss in the hold is really one of the coolest things about Dark Souls 2. I mean, it's all subjective, but I would imagine a lot of the criticism for DS2 is just these ridiculous standards and expectations everyone built up after DS1. I feel like no game ever could live up to those expectations.
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May 25, 2014 06:31
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After I beat your rear end to death in Luna four times I would hope you'd get the hint and stop trying to ring the loving bell; but noooo, you just gotta keep committing suicide by greatsword! Edit: And I just got invaded while checking to see if I had enough wins for a cool set of armor by two different santier's wielders at the same time, poo poo. Sauer fucked around with this message at 06:35 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 06:31
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1-shot Smelter Demon going in blind, yet I died 8 times to the Pursuer afterwards, and twice that to RRA. I have no idea what this says about me.Mighty Dicktron posted:I quite like those two zones, so hey, subjectivity, you know? No-Man's Wharf is pretty different from the previous two games and Earthen Peak is just kind of neat. Earthen Peak would have looked ugly in a game 10 years ago.
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May 25, 2014 06:35
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DSauer posted:After I beat your rear end to death in Luna four times I would hope you'd get the hint and stop trying to ring the loving bell; but noooo, you just gotta keep committing suicide by greatsword! Stop trying to ring the bell.
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May 25, 2014 06:37
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Space Hamlet posted:My point was that the lost effort in designing a cohesive world didn't really pay off in terms of shoring up the parts of Dark Souls 1 which were also kinda weak. Dark Souls 2 has several new weaknesses and few new strengths. The desert enemies are weird because their item descriptions talk about coming from Jugo while, IIRC, there's other gear that talks about Jugo being a jungle kingdom.
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May 25, 2014 06:37
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Iretep posted:Stop trying to ring the bell. It was pretty funny to see two doofs going all Star Wars kid at the same time.
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May 25, 2014 06:38
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Kaldaris posted:The best sorcery for PvP is to stop using sorcery. alright, cool, thanks. and yeah, I normally don't use magic stuff at all in these games, but I'm trying to spice up my PvP life because it's gotten a little stagnant.
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May 25, 2014 06:40
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loving Vendrick, you'd be so easy if you didn't constantly shove your rear end against a wall. 
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May 25, 2014 06:45
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Oh man. I should have listened to all those messages saying 'pull back'.
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May 25, 2014 06:46
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Earthen Peak would have looked ugly in a game 10 years ago. I think the Harvest Valley/Earthen Peak transition/connection is cool, but yeah, it's pretty brown. I like that it's the first time you really kind of get an idea that maybe things weren't so terrible lovely in the kingdom at some point, since you can assume that nobody names canyons filled with poison "Harvest Valley."
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May 25, 2014 06:50
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Are the servers making GBS threads themselves or is my stupid router acting up again?
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May 25, 2014 06:51
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Mighty Dicktron posted:I don't think that the odd world design is intentional and also don't give a poo poo that things overlap and neither should you. Doesn't Pate's map show all the regions aren't actually right next to each other? I'm a fan of the idea that when you do things like go up the elevator to go up to Iron Keep, which is down, it's not that you're literally going up and ending up lower than you started, it's that you went up an elevator, blanked out because you're just barely not hollow and losing track of things, and realize you're now at the Iron Keep. I don't like it as much as how DS1 did it though. quote:That said, the areas in the game are a hell of a lot further apart in the world than the player character experiences. According to the map in the guide (or wherever that map came from), there's a huge mountain range between the Earthen Peak and Iron Keep (for example.) Yeah this. It's not that Iron Keep is connected to Earthen Peak. It's that your character is losing their mind. quote:For something actually helpful, Crystal Greatsword is really good, the homing ones are good, Soul Spear is decent. Soul greatsword stops being useful at about the same time the others do. It's really easy to dodge if you know what the animation for it is.
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May 25, 2014 06:51
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SynthOrange posted:Oh man. I should have listened to all those messages saying 'pull back'. Yeah he has that one hex (that you of course can't get yourself) that is just absurd but otherwise the dude is really easy. I thought given the warnings he'd go Yurt and start murdering people at Majula but he just wants to spar with you 
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