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ronya posted:wait, what are the problems with the gcse/gce that call for a single exam board competition between exam boards leads to a race to the bottom, not any improvement. other similar countries manage fine with one public exam board. scotland for example.
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May 25, 2014 15:25
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ronya posted:The difficulty is tied to the expected length of answers; as a three-hour paper (36 minutes each), I think 2 to 2.5 pages per question would be about reasonable. The point is not to sketch one or two paragraphs, certainly. That's also not changed. Every exam i've taken from 1995 to 2007, which has required essay form answers, has required at least three 1500-2000 word responses in just 3ish hours. It's why i loved my math ones because while there were more questions to answer, if you knew the stuff you could just rattle it out without a care for sentence structure or conveying a message or any other "proper essay" stuff which ate up exam time. You just sat down and worked out the problems. In most of those exams I managed to leave early but i always felt rushed and pressured trying to regurgitate stuff into the essay based ones in a coherent manner. edit: Essay based exams are the worse loving thing out there. I mean, I've never encountered a situation where I've had to put together a thorough multi-page document on a complex subject in the same conditions that are present in an exam, i.e. alone, in limited time without any resources to help you at all. Kin fucked around with this message at 15:34 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 15:26
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ThomasPaine posted:It is technically correct that they're British in the sense that Ireland is part of the British isles, regardless of the fact that it's a politically loaded term and few in the south/many in the north wouldn't consider themselves such. It's called the Atlantic Archipelago.
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May 25, 2014 16:14
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ronya posted:I have no doubt the exams were harder, but I cannot see a return to its particular brand of hardness The questions are actually fine if you get past the outdated way they're written. And the current affairs bits obviously look difficult because they're no longer current. I really like the idea of a single 'general education' paper like this, not asking for a huge amount of specific revisions but relying on broad awareness of the world and critical ability. (And yes, a current affairs section in general would be great!) bob holness paradox posted:It's called the Atlantic Archipelago. Says absolutely no one ever. I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm sure that's the name amongst professional geographers, but 'British Isles' is accepted and used more widely. That in itself makes it probably the more valid term, at least to the general public. Kin posted:edit: Essay based exams are the worse loving thing out there. I mean, I've never encountered a situation where I've had to put together a thorough multi-page document on a complex subject in the same conditions that are present in an exam, i.e. alone, in limited time without any resources to help you at all. I usually can't stand memes, but I'll make an exception for this one because of how ridiculous the whole system is:  ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 16:45 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 16:30
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ThomasPaine posted:Says absolutely no one ever. I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm sure that's the name amongst professional geographers, but 'British Isles' is accepted and used more widely. That in itself makes it probably the more valid term, at least to the general public. The general public in the UK or in the Republic of Ireland?
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May 25, 2014 16:35
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bob holness paradox posted:It's called the Atlantic Archipelago. Hmmm... Wikipedia posted:British Isles Sure, why not.
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May 25, 2014 16:35
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Are you sure Ireland isn't part of the Malvinas? 
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May 25, 2014 16:37
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bob holness paradox posted:The general public in the UK or in the Republic of Ireland? I think every general public everywhere ever.
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May 25, 2014 16:40
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SybilVimes posted:Hmmm... Yes, why not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute
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May 25, 2014 16:45
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I doesn't matter what the islands are called. British has only ever been used to refer to a citizen of the UK, absolutely nothing else. If you do decide to call an Irish person British in the mistaken belief that you're "technically" correct, and thus somehow immune to the ensuing shitstorm 100% guaranteed to be heading your way... can you at least make sure someone's filming it for youtube? I could do with a good laugh.
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May 25, 2014 16:51
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I find exams like that fairly annoying in their abstractness. In the real world when are you required to use 3 hours to write an essay for 5 different topics with absolutely no references allowed? When else do you have to relentlessly re-read older stuff for a brief moment where you are forced to regurgitate it in a pre-approved format? It's absurd, in a real world situation you always have reference materials, books, computers, you have co-workers, friends, consultants, you collaborate, you do research. In reality you solve problems and bring together many more sources than you could reliably memorise to create a robust work. Rarely, if ever, will you just regurgitate the last few weeks of stressful forced memorisation. On the bright side we have generations of people who have been certified as good exam passers and trivial fact rememberers. If aliens invaded and made us write about 5 disparate topics in essay form in a sterilised room or risk disintegration we're lucky because a fair few of us should make it.
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May 25, 2014 16:56
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tooterfish posted:If you do decide to call an Irish person British in the mistaken belief that you're "technically" correct, and thus somehow immune to the ensuing shitstorm 100% guaranteed to be heading your way... can you at least make sure someone's filming it for youtube? I could do with a good laugh. You're missing the point. No one is suggesting anyone does this because we're all aware that whichever way you slice it it is a politically loaded term. Someone asked for any argument that could define an Irish person as British, and we've provided one, that's all. While legitimate, it's pedantic and abstract as arguments go, and anyone would be an idiot bring it up in a real discussion as anything more than that.
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May 25, 2014 16:56
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Xachariah posted:I find exams like that fairly annoying in their abstractness. In the real world when are you required to use 3 hours to write an essay for 5 different topics with absolutely no references allowed? When else do you have to relentlessly re-read older stuff for a brief moment where you are forced to regurgitate it in a pre-approved format? Once upon a time I would have agreed with you, but the more I come across people in the working world I do think there's value in making sure you know key information and arguments without looking them up each time. Not that an essay writing exam actually does that.
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May 25, 2014 17:26
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ThomasPaine posted:You're missing the point. No one is suggesting anyone does this because we're all aware that whichever way you slice it it is a politically loaded term. Someone asked for any argument that could define an Irish person as British, and we've provided one, that's all. While legitimate, it's pedantic and abstract as arguments go, and anyone would be an idiot bring it up in a real discussion as anything more than that. It's only legitimate if you view 'British Isles' as a valid term that is not contested by the Republic of Ireland and its citizens. It doesn't matter if you're happy to not make the argument to an Irish person if you still think it's correct. You're not technically correct that Irish people are British if Ireland doesn't recognise the isles as being British, and Irish people refuse to identify as such.
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May 25, 2014 17:29
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I like essay based exams because I am a good writer.
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May 25, 2014 17:39
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bob holness paradox posted:It's only legitimate if you view 'British Isles' as a valid term that is not contested by the Republic of Ireland and its citizens. It's only legitimate if you redefine the meaning of the word British. The republic is neither a part of the United Kingdom, or the Island of Britain. It's citizens aren't from the island of Britain, or the United Kingdom. The Island may or may not be a part of the British Isles, depending on who you ask, but the people aren't the loving Island. Jesus.
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May 25, 2014 17:42
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Sri.Theo posted:Once upon a time I would have agreed with you, but the more I come across people in the working world I do think there's value in making sure you know key information and arguments without looking them up each time. Why? No one knows everything. You continue to learn throughout your life so there's plenty if time to learn all those key facts. As a teacher I want to inspire children to want to continue learning and give them the skills to do so, not just get them through the next set of meaningless tests. I'm 38 and I couldn't tell you from memory anything about Thomas Hardy, despite having read him for GCSE. I do know that should it come up and I needed to know about him that I could find out the facts and organise, prioritise and present them. I've actually encountered this problem. I had to teach poetry to children. I have absolutely no knowledge of poetry. So I hopped on the Internet and do the required research. And voila, I'm teaching poetry at the right level and no one knew that 24 hours beforehand I knew less than nothing. Learning is not what it used to be, we just haven't told the politicians and they expect children to sit outdated tests and then bemoan their passing them.
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May 25, 2014 17:45
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cormac posted:It's only legitimate if you redefine the meaning of the word British. The republic is neither a part of the United Kingdom, or the Island of Britain. It's citizens aren't from the island of Britain, or the United Kingdom. The Island may or may not be a part of the British Isles, depending on who you ask, but the people aren't the loving Island. Jesus. Aren't they? Is someone identifying as Boston Irish still Irish?
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May 25, 2014 17:45
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ThomasPaine posted:Aren't they? If you read the Scottish Independence thread you'll already know that the answer is yes, and suggesting otherwise is racist.
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May 25, 2014 17:47
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Sri.Theo posted:Once upon a time I would have agreed with you, but the more I come across people in the working world I do think there's value in making sure you know key information and arguments without looking them up each time. I'd agree on the value in knowing key information and arguments, yes -- stuff like having to rote-memorise quotations when you already know the gist of the argument, no.
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May 25, 2014 17:48
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Kin posted:edit: Essay based exams are the worse loving thing out there. I mean, I've never encountered a situation where I've had to put together a thorough multi-page document on a complex subject in the same conditions that are present in an exam, i.e. alone, in limited time without any resources to help you at all.
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May 25, 2014 18:00
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Zohar posted:I'd agree on the value in knowing key information and arguments, yes -- stuff like having to rote-memorise quotations when you already know the gist of the argument, no. I* have to teach five year olds to memorise and "properly" recite poetry. And you know that I'm not talking the Michael Rosen or Roger McGough poems that children love. *i say 'I' but in truth I teach 7-11. My KS1 colleagues have the joy of teaching poetry by rote. The rote learning continues in KS2, but they can read well enough that you just have to tell them to learn it themselves over the weekend. Still loving pointless.
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May 25, 2014 18:05
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ThomasPaine posted:Aren't they? People can self-identify as whatever they want, it's none of my business. I don't get to decide. What I object to, is someone else deciding for me that, regardless of my own feelings on the matter, or our near century of independence, or the actual meaning of words, I and everyone else in Ireland, are, somehow, still British.
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May 25, 2014 18:06
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Chris de Sperg posted:That would be why you prepare the essays before the exam. Ah yes I remember the last time I had a job where I had to write essays the day before and then attempt to remember them and put it down while I'm alone in a barren locked room. 
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May 25, 2014 18:07
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cormac posted:People can self-identify as whatever they want, it's none of my business. I don't get to decide. Wait Ireland's not part of England? When did this happen?
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May 25, 2014 18:08
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Pissflaps posted:If you read the Scottish Independence thread you'll already know that the answer is yes, and suggesting otherwise is racist. You're right that they're still culturally derived from Irish (with huge influences from the US). I'd dispute the idea that they're still politically Irish or the idea that they have any right to interfere in Irish political matters. They're a mongrel culture with a significant element of that drawn from Irish culture, but they're not 'Irish' in any meaningful sense. What I was actually getting at is it's wrong to suggest that 'Irish' in strict sense is an ethnicity, rather it's a political identification dependent upon usual residency in Ireland. So, kind of the opposite of racism as I'm actively disputing the value of any ethnic dimension towards self-identity. e: I use 'mongrel culture' without any negative connotation - we're all mongrel cultures when it comes down to it. cormac posted:People can self-identify as whatever they want, it's none of my business. I don't get to decide. I see what you're saying but I don't think you're seeing this from my perspective. Yes, it would be difficult to consider an Irishman (from the republic at least) 'British' on a cultural/political level if not impossible. On a purely neutral geographical level though, it is possible. Of course, the geographic term in itself could reflect a wider political context but in a way that it the point. While 'British Isles' remains in common use, it is absolutely possible to consider an Irish person British in that they are an inhabitant of the geograhic British Isles. You might dispute the appropriateness of this, but it works under its own internal logic. I'm not saying that's a good thing, or a bad thing, only that it's true, and because of the general acceptance of the term 'British isles' in the UK/rest of the world many would be baffled by an aggressive reaction to it. As a result, flipping your poo poo, even to an Englishman, is never helpful. Calmly explaining why you feel it is inappropriate is far better. And of course, encouraging an alternative designation for the archipelago might well be a good plan as a more neutral term would remove the semantic disconnect here. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 18:16 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 18:08
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Chris de Sperg posted:That would be why you prepare the essays before the exam. It's good that you somehow end up in classes where you'not only been given the exact questions before the exam, but have also been allowed to bring in your pre-prepared notes/essays to the exam. Most of the rest of us didn't.
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May 25, 2014 18:11
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ThomasPaine posted:You're right that they're still culturally derived from Irish (with huge influences from the US). I'd dispute the idea that they're still politically Irish or the idea that they have any right to interfere in Irish political matters. They're a mongrel culture with a significant element of that drawn from Irish culture, but they're not 'Irish' in any meaningful sense. You don't get to decide these things. ThomasPaine posted:What I was actually getting at is it's wrong to suggest that 'Irish' in strict sense is an ethnicity, I never once mentioned ethnicity. ThomasPaine posted:rather it's a political identification dependent upon usual residency in Ireland. So Roy Keane isn't Irish any more then? I'll let you tell him.
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May 25, 2014 18:14
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There are other words, I don't mind calling myself a Mongrel, however, I'd hesitate to apply that to a large group of people, try "Hybrid", or "people of diverse ancestry".
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May 25, 2014 18:15
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Xachariah posted:Ah yes I remember the last time I had a job where I had to write essays the day before and then attempt to remember them and put it down while I'm alone in a barren locked room. Kin posted:It's good that you somehow end up in classes where you'not only been given the exact questions before the exam, but have also been allowed to bring in your pre-prepared notes/essays to the exam.
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May 25, 2014 18:16
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cormac posted:You don't get to decide these things. Why not? You're suggesting that every person who self identifies as 'Irish' in the whole world should be accepted as a member of that political community and entitled to vote etc? Clearly that's a ridiculous idea.
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May 25, 2014 18:18
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ThomasPaine posted:Why not? Seriously? Well, for the same reason that the BNP or UKIP don't get to decide who's really British. ThomasPaine posted:You're suggesting that every person who self identifies as 'Irish' in the whole world should be accepted as a member of that political community and entitled to vote etc? Clearly that's a ridiculous idea.
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May 25, 2014 18:21
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Anyone who spoiled their vote in my ward very nearly let in a kipper. Labour ended up beating the kipper to the seat by 8 votes. Thankfully I persuaded most of my family to vote labour to keep UKIP out. It's me, I saved my ward.
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May 25, 2014 18:28
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ThomasPaine posted:Why not? You're suggesting that every person who self identifies as 'Irish' in the whole world should be accepted as a member of that political community and entitled to vote etc? Clearly that's a ridiculous idea. Hyperbole much? It's always amusing to watch Brits succumb to their inherent desire to tell others what/who they are.
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May 25, 2014 18:31
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Chris de Sperg posted:I remember the last time I had a job where I had to research and prepare things beforehand and be able to talk about those things later without having to go look all of them up again. The essay exam system clearly isn't perfect but I feel like you're being somewhat disingenuous with regards to how it correlates to real-world situations. Your work place didn't allow you to bring in notes when giving a presentation or attending a meeting? Seems excessively strict. I'm not denying that there are some aspects to the process which are beneficial such as knowing how to properly research and prepare yourself for a range of questions on a subject if you've been warned in advance, but largely it prepares you for situations that have a collection of restrictions which are extremely uncommon. When we already have coursework and class presentations exams are a strange exercise to determine the other half of your grade, considering that it is far, far less applicable than the other two situations.
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May 25, 2014 18:32
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cormac posted:Seriously? Well, for the same reason that the BNP or UKIP don't get to decide who's really British. You're right, they're not the same thing, but they are very much connected. Identity of some sort is a pre-requisite for citizenship, and citizenship reinforces identity. And I'm not trying to argue about who is 'really Irish' because that doesn't make any sense. The point I'm making is that immigrant cultures are by necessity different to those of their ancestral homeland. You take culture A and mix it with culture B, and you're going to get culture C. As a result you cease to be culture A but something entirely new. Maintaining aspects of culture A isn't the problem, the issue I have is when people assume that any percieved affinity here grants them political legitimacy. I get incredibly irritated when people living abroad get involved in political matters they have no right to based on a conflation of political and cultural identity. The Americans who used (still do?) send money to the IRA, people getting involved in the Scottish referendum debate despite living in Canada etc etc. That's not to say people can't have an opinion on events, but they shouldn't frame it in terms of national identity/solidarity. Redgrendel2001 posted:It's always amusing to watch Brits succumb to their inherent desire to tell others what/who they are. Only I'm not doing that, I'm just highlighting that culture has to change and adapt based on the context it finds itself in. And you ascribing an 'inherent desire' based on a cultural/ethnic/national (I don't know which you're going for) identification is pretty loving troubling. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 18:39 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 18:35
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ThomasPaine posted:Only I'm not doing that, I'm just highlighting that culture has to change and adapt based on the context it finds itself in. And you ascribing an 'inherent desire' based on a cultural/ethnic/national (I don't know which you're going for) identification is pretty loving troubling. I don't think any plastic paddy has ever thought about voting rights in Ireland. You were being ridiculous; and denying that the British/English culture/nation has a proclivity towards dominating and controlling others flies in the face of history, reality, the last several hundred pages of this thread, and the current elections going on in your country.
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May 25, 2014 18:44
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What if you just cant handwrite very well? They are meant to be a test of what you have learnt not how quick you can write. Personally im bricking it for next week, ive got 3, all handwritten. I cant do joined up and i print slowly. Everything should be 100% coursework, exams are stupid. Especially stupid with computer code, in real life when would anyone ever handwrite code without access to the net and an ide for syntax.
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May 25, 2014 18:46
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Seaside Loafer posted:What if you just cant handwrite very well? They are meant to be a test of what you have learnt not how quick you can write. Personally im bricking it for next week, ive got 3, all handwritten. I cant do joined up and i print slowly. Everything should be 100% coursework, exams are stupid. Especially stupid with computer code, in real life when would anyone ever handwrite code without access to the net and an ide for syntax. The code exams are a piece of piss.
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May 25, 2014 18:48
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ThomasPaine posted:And I'm not trying to argue about who is 'really Irish' because that doesn't make any sense. Ummm ThomasPaine posted:They're a mongrel culture with a significant element of that drawn from Irish culture, but they're not 'Irish' in any meaningful sense. Ok ThomasPaine posted:On a purely neutral geographical level though, it is possible. Only if you redefine the meaning of the word "British". The word "British" refers to the island of Britain, which Ireland isn't a part of, or to the United Kingdom, which the Republic of Ireland also isn't a part of. The name of the archipelago on which we live is irrelevant. ThomasPaine posted:While 'British Isles' remains in common use, it is absolutely possible to consider an Irish person British in that they are an inhabitant of the geograhic British Isles. See above. ThomasPaine posted:because of the general acceptance of the term 'British isles' in the UK/rest of the world many would be baffled by an aggressive reaction to it. People in the UK would be baffled by an Irish person objecting to being described as British? Are you serious?
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May 25, 2014 18:53
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