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Responding to this convo in IRC re:ending a sentence in a preposition.quote:<theblunderbuss> That was the bit I'm least sure I agree with, actually. :/ You can say it's for style, and if it's in dialogue then fine. But if it's not, you need to really think if you can't reword your sentence and still have it feel "natural." Like I said, I don't even usually care, but yours jumped out at me because you did it so many times. It doesn't feel "natural," it feels "wrong," which I'm guessing is not what you wanted. I'm sure that sometimes there's no way to say it that doesn't feel clunky, but yours don't fall into this category. The examples I find on the internet are basically either A) questions, or B) passive. Don't excuse laziness and sloppy editing for style. Here I reword several of your sentences you ended in a preposition, and they read just fine. "Looks like I've made it worse," Anna said when he got in. "Looks like I've made it worse," Anna said when he arrived. "Looks like I've made it worse," Anna said when he got home. "Looks like I've made it worse," Anna said after he'd removed his earmuffs. The wind blew in and out through the hole and shifted the dust inside. also this is just not a good sentence in general (the second part is passive voice) The wind blew in and out through the hole and the dust inside shifted with each gust. The wind blew in and out through the hole and the dust on the floor swirled. The wind blew in and out through the hole and each breath sent a cloud of dust into the air. There was no need to go in. There was no need to enter. There was no need to check on them. There was no point in checking. Laurent kicked the last shards of glass away and pushed his way inside. Laurent kicked the last shards of glass away and pushed his way inside the bookstore. Laurent kicked the last shards of glass away and pushed past the fallen bookcases. Laurent kicked the last shards of glass away and pushed his way inside with his huge dick. The radio was on. The radio was still playing. The radio hummed. The radio was static. He hauled his outdoor layers off. Don't even pretend this sounds more natural He took off his outdoor layers. He took off his clothes. He shucked off his outermost layers. None of those sentence sound "unnatural," just "different." If you see a sentence end a preposition and your only thought is "i should rearrange those to say "the place in which he went." then you're not thinking writerly enough. A lot of it could be fixed with better verbs. quote:got in. Or just adding a noun, i.e. inside WHAT. Use more nouns. crabrock fucked around with this message at 21:45 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 21:41
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blue squares posted:What about horror/suspense/dark fantasy? I don't know the big markets for that genre. Nightmare Magazine The Dark Apex Magazine (Best one, IMO) Jamais Vous (less so) Shimmer (only sometimes horror) Shock Totem Black Static Nightmare and Apex have all their stories online. The others don't.
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May 11, 2014 21:43
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Shimmer's going to be putting stories online in the near future I believe.
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May 11, 2014 22:18
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Thanks guys. I've got some good horror tales that I will circulate through those and hope one or two sticks
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May 11, 2014 22:20
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Does anybody have any suggestions for dealing with utter doubt once deep into a project? I'm sitting on about 92k words, and finally hit a scene I've had planned for a very long time. It also happens to be the one scene I first wrote a long time back before beginning the story proper. So I opened up my old version of the scene to see if there were any ideas I'd let fall by the wayside during the writing. And I was faced with snappy dialogue, obscene jokes, quick progression - none of which are evident in the new in-context version I've just spent so much on. Has anybody else experienced this, once deep into writing a novel or other very long project? Paranoia about the clogging up of prose, things becoming slow, stilted, and so on? I know that the only practical solution is 'keep writing, edit later', but for the life of me I can't figure out if the original version was better, or if the new version just feels worse because it's in-context and all the characters are much more developed now.
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May 12, 2014 18:02
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Neil Gaiman's NaNoWriMo pep talk might help:Neil Gaiman posted:The last novel I wrote (it was ANANSI BOYS, in case you were wondering) when I got three-quarters of the way through I called my agent. I told her how stupid I felt writing something no-one would ever want to read, how thin the characters were, how pointless the plot. I strongly suggested that I was ready to abandon this book and write something else instead, or perhaps I could abandon the book and take up a new life as a landscape gardener, bank-robber, short-order cook or marine biologist. And instead of sympathising or agreeing with me, or blasting me forward with a wave of enthusiasm—or even arguing with me—she simply said, suspiciously cheerfully, “Oh, you’re at that part of the book, are you?”
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May 12, 2014 18:16
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Hungry posted:Does anybody have any suggestions for dealing with utter doubt once deep into a project? Rewrite the old scene. It'll probably come out more in line with the rest of the text.
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May 12, 2014 18:17
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Keromaru5 posted:Neil Gaiman being a goddamn genius. That was brilliant, I can't believe I've never seen that article before. Thank you.
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May 12, 2014 19:43
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Hi friends. I haven't posted in CC for a few years now because life got weird and I somehow stumbled into a job as a sportswriter. This owns, but I miss writing and critiquing fiction. I gave myself a kick in the rear end and managed to cobble a couple stories together and I'm considering shopping them around. Which brings me to a specific question: have any of you guys used Duotrope now that you have to pay for it? I thought it was a great resource when free but I don't know anyone who's bothered to subscribe. Have they added any new content that makes it particularly worth the $50/year fee? Or do most people get by on just googling a bit more?
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May 18, 2014 02:00
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I only used it for a bit before it went paid, but I seem to remember being surprised at actual improvements when I started paying for it. $50 a year isn't that bad, and I think it's worth it. But I suppose the best thing to do is to use their week trial or however long it is.
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May 18, 2014 02:02
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So I was writing a gay character, when I realized I don't actually know any gay guys (or girls) And then I went like poo poo, how the hell do I write a gay guy when I don't even know one. And for a night I was really worried about this until my moment of stupidity passed and I realized they're just like everyone else in end except they happen to like guys, so crisis averted I guess. Right now the problem I have is that my whole world feels stupid, the plot feels stupid, the characters are doing dumb things in a sort of post apocalyptic scenario. I also think I might have front loaded the first chapter with too much action and writing combat scenes is very much the worst thing ever. And then there's the character who just shows up to explain what's going on who will be central to the plot in the later parts and I'm having real trouble with him, he has clear motivations but I can't rationalize his methods which involve keeping dumb secrets (like the two main characters have both met him but not at the same time and they're both keeping him a secret from each other) The whole thing is going to get way more convoluted towards the middle as well when there's some double crossing going on. I kind of feel like just scrapping the whole thing and trying again, but I'm 12k words in it at this point and don't want to just let it fizzle out like all my other projects. 12k probably isn't much but it's the furthest I've gotten in my projects so far. Knowing that this problem isn't unique to me helps though, especially if even Gaiman has the same problems, though I don't exactly expect my writings to measure up to his. One thing I have discovered though, writing when slightly drunk takes away all my worries about whether something is silly or not, I just write which is good but I don't think I want to walk down that road. Sorry about rambling nonsense in here again, you guys really are a big help and I feel like I should follow and try to contribute to this thread more often. Was there any advice on how long a first novel should be by the way? I think I remember a good length being about 100k, but I'm not sure anymore.
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May 19, 2014 08:24
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Anomalous Blowout posted:Hi friends. I haven't posted in CC for a few years now because life got weird and I somehow stumbled into a job as a sportswriter. This owns, but I miss writing and critiquing fiction. I gave myself a kick in the rear end and managed to cobble a couple stories together and I'm considering shopping them around. I pay for it because I track my subs with it and don't want to transfer to The Grinder or go back to keeping notes in paper. It's not a lot of money and Duotrope is overall solid and accurate. If you're thinking that The Grinder has more data (responses recorded), you'd be wrong, at least according to my anecdotal data (I run a magazine and did an anthology a while back). Duotrope reports were about 10% of actual submissions received. The Grinder was 1-2%. Sample size is about 1000 submissions.
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May 19, 2014 12:56
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organburner posted:So I was writing a gay character, when I realized I don't actually know any gay guys (or girls) Welcome to writing a novel. It sucks to hear, but this is what almost everyone who writes novels goes through. You just have to keep going anyway. I didn't believe the advice when I was writing my first and hating it, but now that I actually finished it, I'm so glad I did. edit: Especially a first novel. But on your worst day, it's probably not as bad as you think. On your best day, it's not that good either. blue squares fucked around with this message at 15:30 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 13:06
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organburner posted:I realized they're just like everyone else in end except they happen to like guys While this is true, you might still want to do some research into gay culture. This depends on if your character is just a dude who likes guys, or is he someone who is part of the whole "scene." It's like if I write a Sicilian-American, is he just a regular Caucasian dude with a vowel ending in his last name, or does he yell "maddon'" and "vafancul'" all the time and eat salami and mozzarella sandwiches three days a week? ravenkult posted:I pay for it because I track my subs with it and don't want to transfer to The Grinder I wondered for a second why you were talking about hero sandwiches and the different names for them
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May 19, 2014 15:38
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ravenkult posted:I pay for it because I track my subs with it and don't want to transfer to The Grinder or go back to keeping notes in paper. It's not a lot of money and Duotrope is overall solid and accurate. That's extremely helpful, thank you! PoshAlligator posted:I only used it for a bit before it went paid, but I seem to remember being surprised at actual improvements when I started paying for it. $50 a year isn't that bad, and I think it's worth it. Yeah, $50 isn't a lot, but hearing people who actually use it say that it's good value for money is just what I wanted to hear.  So thanks! Of course, this is all going to be moot if writing thousands of words per week about hockey dudes punching faces has destroyed my ability to write about anything else in a coherent fashion.
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May 19, 2014 22:38
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Anomalous Blowout posted:Of course, this is all going to be moot if writing thousands of words per week about hockey dudes punching faces has destroyed my ability to write about anything else in a coherent fashion. I occasionally write about the online dating industry for people and yeah it can be pretty weird to go between the two types of writing. I'm on board with those worries. Someone suggested I mainly try and write fiction about online dating and I almost broke down in tears.
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May 20, 2014 00:46
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PoshAlligator posted:I occasionally write about the online dating industry for people and yeah it can be pretty weird to go between the two types of writing. I'm on board with those worries. We could collaborate and write a romance novel about two rival hockey players who find true love lurking in the anonymous corners of the internet. Only they discover they play for teams that have hated one another since the advent of the NHL. As the Eastern Conference Finals of the Stanley Cup Playoffs draw near, they'll have to go head to head on the ice while hiding their true feelings from the media and their teammates. Coming soon to your Amazon erotica marketplace, an Anomalous Alligator production: Slapshot to the Heart.
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May 20, 2014 03:17
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Anomalous Blowout posted:We could collaborate and write a romance novel about two rival hockey players who find true love lurking in the anonymous corners of the internet. Only they discover they play for teams that have hated one another since the advent of the NHL. As the Eastern Conference Finals of the Stanley Cup Playoffs draw near, they'll have to go head to head on the ice while hiding their true feelings from the media and their teammates. Gay Hockey Players Who Meet On Tinder is probably a marketable romance.
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May 20, 2014 03:26
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Les Habitants du Coeur
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May 20, 2014 03:39
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Les Habitants du Coeur Am I just a David Foster Wallace freak (yes) or is this a reference to Infinite Jest?
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May 20, 2014 04:42
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blue squares posted:Am I just a David Foster Wallace freak (yes) or is this a reference to Infinite Jest? I am not nearly as familiar with Mr Wallace's works as I am with hockey but this appears to be a Habs joke. We could make it a series: Les Habitants du Armoire. (Does French even use the 'closet' == gay terminology? So much research for this hockey smut.) Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Gay Hockey Players Who Meet On Tinder is probably a marketable romance. I've never written a smut scene with more than one penis before, but I've written a lot about five-holes and grinding.
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May 20, 2014 06:39
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Anomalous Blowout posted:
Two putters, four holes, and grinding is par for the course.
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May 20, 2014 06:57
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Anomalous Blowout posted:I've never written a smut scene with more than one penis before, but I've written a lot about five-holes and grinding. I've written a lot about Grindr. Funnily I did once write an article called "Talking Dirty: An Exploration" by specific request, and I only just about managed to avoid feeling pretty uncomfortable. It's in here: https://www.oscartk.co.uk/portfolio Otherwise I just write boring news stories or fake rants.
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May 20, 2014 12:09
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Anomalous Blowout posted:
Oui! But they use 'placard', not 'armoire'. I'm still looking for a second success after getting a rejection after more than a year. At that point are they just cleaning out the in box with rejections all around? (I kid, I kid. Kinda.)
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May 21, 2014 16:48
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TIL how to call someone a gay in le French. And they say SA isn't educational. Molly Bloom, I'm not sure about the publication in question but a friend of mine used to be an editor for Fantasy. When I asked her about this very issue, she said they received so much material that unless they were taking calls for specific themed issues/anthologies they often ran about 5-6 months behind simply due to volume. If you submitted to one of the bigger places I could easily see them taking that long to get around to reading unsolicited works. It sucks but they're probably understaffed and overloaded.
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May 22, 2014 00:26
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Goddamn Cormac McCarthy is a great writer. He breaks every drat rule out there and tells the story in ways that makes me tingle in my special parts. Where do I go learn THOSE rules of writing?
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May 24, 2014 22:50
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I know what you mean, I'm reading the road right now and it kind of inspired one small section of my project. Well, maybe not inspired but definitely helped me get the tone a bit better. Now if I could just keep writing at 1k words per day my book would be finished in only three months!
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May 25, 2014 00:12
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Before you can write like Cormack McCarthy, you have to be as good as him. I've been using a writing as exercise metaphor for a while now, and I think it works as a piece of figurative comparison. If you want to be able to flex your muscles and do the kinds of feats of athletics that a professional can do you have to start small. You don't wake up one day and bench press twice your body weight. If you do that, you'll pull something and the end result will not be pretty. Instead, you start with less than you can handle, until you have the form down, then you slowly begin handling more and more weight, until you're capable of doing heavy lifting. But it's a process that does not take place overnight, and is draining to boot. You need discipline and perseverance to prosper, and the willingness to listen to people who know what they're talking about, rather than following the advice of snake oil salesman whose powders promise results but ultimately do harm than good. If you want to be a good writer, then you write and, perhaps more importantly, you read. I don't mean reading how-to guides, I mean reading stories written by other people, in all manner of genres. And you keep doing it, day in and day out, and eventually you'll be able to handle some really impressive stuff.
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May 25, 2014 00:33
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One of my first sales was a story broadly written in McCarthy's style, though, alas, the editor ended up wedging in a bunch of semicolons (and I probably slipped up and committed a few as well). I'm hesitant to put it forward as any kind of exemplar, but it certainly gave me respect for both the difficulty and the power of his technique.
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May 25, 2014 03:53
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General Battuta posted:(and I probably slipped up and committed a few as well) Oh my. Are semicolons frowned upon? Or is this one of those, "unless you really know how to handle them, and you probably don't" things?
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May 25, 2014 09:21
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I think a well-placed semicolon can be great for a certain type of flow in writing, but most of the time when you see an abundance of them, it's a symptom of people who are Trying Too Hard. Or just as often; you see people using them wrong. But they still use a shitload; because they think it looks good; I've even seen two in the same sentence.
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May 25, 2014 11:28
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Shirley Jackson's Haunting of Hill House had one in nearly every sentence.
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May 25, 2014 12:16
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Symptomless Coma posted:Oh my. Are semicolons frowned upon? Or is this one of those, "unless you really know how to handle them, and you probably don't" things? We were talking about emulating Cormac McCarthy's style in particular. I don't think he ever uses semicolons.
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May 25, 2014 16:38
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Anomalous Blowout posted:I think a well-placed semicolon can be great for a certain type of flow in writing, but most of the time when you see an abundance of them, it's a symptom of people who are Trying Too Hard. I am ridiculously guilty of this, so it's good to see this spelled out.
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May 25, 2014 16:53
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I like semicolons so whatevs.
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May 25, 2014 17:09
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General Battuta posted:We were talking about emulating Cormac McCarthy's style in particular. I don't think he ever uses semicolons. Doesn't he not use punctuation at all? I think he's the dude who doesn't bother with quotation marks, at least, believing that people will just understand from the context when it's not someone talking or whatever.
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May 25, 2014 17:11
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He uses punctuation, but no quotation marks like you said. We've talked about it here before. I hate it, and I don't care how good he is I still think he's just doing it to be "artistic." Someone else here argues that it's awesome because blah blah I don't remember. Either way, I still love his writing.
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May 25, 2014 17:37
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I think that's the case with art in general. I mean, you can enjoy someone like Bansky and still think a lot of graffiti looks like poo poo.
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May 25, 2014 17:47
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General Battuta posted:We were talking about emulating Cormac McCarthy's style in particular. I don't think he ever uses semicolons. Good to know. I for one think they're the perfect way of making clauses flow without a lot of and's and so's cluttering up the place. But that also makes them too easy to use everywhere as verbal duct-tape.
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May 25, 2014 18:02
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How does everyone feel about portal fantasy? I've heard many agents saying they absolutely do not want to see any non-children's portal fantasies because they're "poorly written" and "overdone". Now, I'm certain this is the case in many instances, but what about those that aren't? Like Neil Gaiman's "Neverwhere", for example, or "The Fionavar Tapestry"? Is this a no-no?
Captain Mog fucked around with this message at 13:54 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 13:51
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