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Hollismason posted:The juries still out on this one , but I think if you sumon a Daemon Squad with a instrument you automatically also get to bring in any unit that has the Daemon tie in from reserve automatically. This can be done on the first turn... like I said it's funky. Demonic Instruments only activate if the unit carrying it passes it's reserve roll (the Daemon codex specifically says "...successfully passes it's reserve roll") and the unit you want to come in automatically hasn't rolled for reserves yet. This particular instrument effect isn't usable on summoned Daemon units afaik. Also, as far as I can tell, nowhere does it say a summoned Daemon unit gets any sort of upgrades. Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 03:55 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 03:52
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Hollismason posted:The juries still out on this one , but I think if you sumon a Daemon Squad with a instrument you automatically also get to bring in any unit that has the Daemon type in from reserve automaticlly, Obliterators are Daemons, so Are Bloodthirsters and Soul Grinders.. This can be done on the first turn... like I said it's funky. Summoning them doesn't make any mention of passing a Reserves roll. A 50S RAYGUN fucked around with this message at 03:57 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 03:53
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Do CSMs get any sort of an edge with summoning Daemons?
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May 26, 2014 03:53
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Pacheeco posted:Demonic Instruments only activate if the unit carrying it passes it's reserve roll (the Daemon codex specifically says "...successfully passes it's reserve roll") and the unit you want to come in automatically hasn't rolled for reserves yet. This particular instrument effect isn't usable on summoned Daemon units afaik. Like I said it's funky the actual Conjure Daemons spell actually says : When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes. That's the actual rule and wording. It's funky, do I think it does? Maybe? 50/50. I don't want to get into a rules debate though, I save that for DakkaDakka let them argue. SUPER NEAT TOY posted:The summoned squads can't take any upgrades, and even if they did summoning them doesn't make any mention of passing a Reserves roll. You're actually straight up wrong. If a conjuration power creates a unit from Codex: Chaos Daemons and that unit’s Army List Entry includes the option to take an Icon of Chaos, an Instrument of Chaos and/or the option to upgrade one model to a character, you may take any of these options for free provided you have the appropriate model available. Dump_Stat posted:Do CSMs get any sort of an edge with summoning Daemons? No but apparently they get access to Sanctic or whatever it's called.
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May 26, 2014 03:57
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Pacheeco posted:Also, as far as I can tell, nowhere does it say a summoned Daemon unit gets any sort of upgrades. I thought this too, but it's listed on page 27, under 'Conjuring Demons'; they can take an Instrument/Icon/character upgrade for free. I'd just been checking the spell. Either way it's not the same as passing a reserves roll. Hollismason posted:You're actually straight up wrong. Yeah, I caught that when I checked the actual rules for 'Conjuring Demons'. You'd think they'd put that by the spell. A 50S RAYGUN fucked around with this message at 04:01 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 03:59
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Let others argue that poo poo. I got no horse in this race. Well except for the Chaos Space Marines I have from Dark Vengeance and the 40 Pink horrors I may have bought on Ebay. I'm just glad I can use all my figures now, gently caress yeah I'm playing Necrons, Chaos Space Marines, and Dark Angels. What? I'm sure there's some reason those would all come together. I can actually field like 2500 points now with all my stuff so I am happy about that.
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May 26, 2014 04:01
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Hollismason posted:You automatically get your gods Primaris for free, then you have to roll once on the chart then you can roll on other charts. Getting the free Primaris doesn't satisfy the requirement that you have to roll. That sounds pretty spergy. You have to generate at least one power from the God-based disciplines, and getting the Primaris seems good enough to me. Maybe they'll address it in the FAQ. Dump_Stat posted:Do CSMs get any sort of an edge with summoning Daemons? Not really. Daemon Princes and Sorcerers with the Daemonheart relic don't explode on any doubles, but otherwise Daemons summon Daemons far better than anyone else.
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May 26, 2014 04:03
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Hollismason posted:Like I said it's funky the actual Conjure Daemons spell actually says : It may have arrived from Reserves for all rule purposes but you never rolled a dice for it to arrive so, strict RAW, instruments don't work in this instance. Personally I'm strongly leaning towards the clarification that "is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes" is stated in order to stop summoned Daemons from assaulting the same turn they arrive because, according to GW, that is literally the worst possible thing that could ever happen in the game. "When a unit with an Instrument of Chaos in Deep Strike reserve successfully passes its Reserve Role, you can also choose another unit. This must be a unit that: is entirely composed of models with the Daemon special rule, is still in Deep Strike reserve, has yet to make a reserve roll this turn" (p.64 Daemon Codex). Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 04:07 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 04:03
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Slimnoid posted:That sounds pretty spergy. You have to generate at least one power from the God-based disciplines, and getting the Primaris seems good enough to me. Maybe they'll address it in the FAQ. Eh it's Spergy but it is a literal interpretation. I'm not going to bring this up anywhere but here, but you can shut down a summoning army pretty fast with those Servo Skull things. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 04:07 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 04:05
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Hollismason posted:I'm not going to bring this up anywhere but here, but you can shut down a summoning army pretty fast with those Servo Skull things. they should have sent a poet... 
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May 26, 2014 04:11
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Wait no they don't , I got them mixed up with jammers for whatever reason.
Hollismason fucked around with this message at 04:16 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 04:13
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Hey I finished painting another thing.    
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May 26, 2014 04:50
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Wouldn't mind seeing that whole army all together in one shot, just saying. Awesome as always SRM. This is funny but I was actually looking through some old White Dwarfs the other day and was reminded of your Old School stuff, yours is WAaaaaaaaaaaaay better painted.
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May 26, 2014 05:04
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Hollismason posted:Wouldn't mind seeing that whole army all together in one shot, just saying. Awesome as always SRM. I'm flattered, but there's some lovely blends on those old 'Eavy Metal paintjobs I can't quite replicate! I'm working on the display board so once that's done there'll be some proper army shots, but I did a few maybe 2 months ago:  Since then I've painted 5 Terminators, a 5-man command squad, and the Razorback.
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May 26, 2014 05:09
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Post 9-11 User posted:Between scaring off my girlfriend and people screetching things like, "My Sergeant is gonna RAPE YOU with his POWER FIST!!!" I couldn't stomach showing up there anymore. I still feel bad because I went to the local GW to get some painting in - the lighting was better than my apartment and I wanted to get out of the house - and my friend came along and brought his girlfriend, and while she was sitting there on her phone one of the regulars started talking about how Space Wolves create more Space Wolves by raping the local populace. I feel bad because by proxy it's my fault my friends came to the store to begin with. Never again. In retrospect, back when I was a 16-21 year old I acted the same, albeit I toned it down a bit. Most of my friends at the time were exactly the type of people I avoid like the plague these days. As far as I know, despite almost seven years since then, most of them are still working at that same game store making minimum wage, living with their parents and making snarky comments and rape jokes to 13 year olds. I'm honestly surprised it has survived this long without some kind of lawsuit.
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May 26, 2014 05:28
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I kind of have the same view on the word human being, which get's thrown around a good bit. I dunno I don't hang out at the local store unless it is to get a game going. I have a few people I've found to play games with so I rarely go plus I don't have the time. I've found though that it incredibly enjoyable to confront someone saying stuff like that because they get really loving weird and obviously made uncomfortable. Then for the rest of the game they just loving sit there. Maybe it's me and my perverse pleasure on calling people out on bullshit stuff like that. Also, what's weird is I live in a very liberal city, and it's just kind of amusing to hear that kind of poo poo.
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May 26, 2014 05:52
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So, I might be giving 7th a try with my GK against Tyranids. Would I be a terrible person to bring a Land Raider against him? I was thinking of having a mix of Divination and Sanctic psykers so I can try to score 3++ saves on my better units. What other gimmicks can I pull to show my gaming group how horrible and unbalanced 7th edition is? The only sizable armies I have are Tyranids and GKs so I can't abuse daemonspam even if I wanted to.
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May 26, 2014 06:11
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Oh boy, have I got an example of Dakka stupidity for you quote:Well Nids seem to be one of the big winners with 7th Ed so here's my take at 1850:
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May 26, 2014 06:17
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HiveCommander posted:So, I might be giving 7th a try with my GK against Tyranids. Would I be a terrible person to bring a Land Raider against him? I was thinking of having a mix of Divination and Sanctic psykers so I can try to score 3++ saves on my better units. What other gimmicks can I pull to show my gaming group how horrible and unbalanced 7th edition is? The only sizable armies I have are Tyranids and GKs so I can't abuse daemonspam even if I wanted to. Grey Knights are weird right now, aren't they still a 5th edition book and 6th edition added in what Psychic Disciplines they actually have access to? I am not familiar with the whole issue with them. I know someone brought it up that Grey Knights lost their ability to get Divination now or something to that effect because of the change from 6th to 7th. I do know that because their vehicles count as ML1 , then that adds Warp Charge to your army so if you have a decent number of vehicles you get more Warp Charge. Also, you can fire Witchfire and still fire in the Shooting phase. Sanctic has a kind of lovely except against Daemons psychic power so that kind of blows but really you just want to roll on it to get loving vortex. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 06:37 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 06:35
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Grey knights were designed for 6th, iirc. They had non-independent characters and brotherhood of psykers and all kinds of things that seemed strange at the time.
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May 26, 2014 06:50
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Hollismason posted:Grey Knights are weird right now, aren't they still a 5th edition book and 6th edition added in what Psychic Disciplines they actually have access to? I am not familiar with the whole issue with them. I know someone brought it up that Grey Knights lost their ability to get Divination now or something to that effect because of the change from 6th to 7th. I can't see anything preventing GK access to Divination, but I may be wrong. Is it still only the GK Librarian that gets to roll on BRB charts, or can squads get a single roll on a chart of their choosing as well because they're P.Bros? Fix posted:Grey knights were designed for 6th, iirc. They had non-independent characters and brotherhood of psykers and all kinds of things that seemed strange at the time.
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May 26, 2014 06:57
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Um... I think Grey Knight Rhinos can cast Vortex and other Sanctic powers. I have to investigate this further. The rulebook gave all psykers access to Daemonology, Psychic Pilot counts as a ML1 psyker, previously the only Psychic power available to them was Fortitude. The reason they couldn't take any Disciplines before or any other powers and had to take Fortitude was that that was all that was available to them. Now they have access to Fortitude and Daemonology.
Hollismason fucked around with this message at 07:12 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 07:04
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HiveCommander posted:If only Tyranids were designed for 7th, they came out only 4 months before the new edition and if anything, they have a ton of stuff that makes less sense in 7th ed. It's not a case of Necrons having heavy vehicles with no rules for them or special snowflake wound allocation when using a certain character's weapon. At this point Tyranid players should basically just flip the table over every game and declare it random wound allocation.
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May 26, 2014 07:09
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Hollismason posted:Hahahahhahaha , loving Transcendant C'tan in normal play is broken. The C'tan is a monster. Basically the only ways to kill him are Grav weapons, Witchblades, and rolling a 6 on the Destroyer chart. Snollygoster posted:-Some of the warlord traits, particularly the Personal warlord traits, got straight up better. You outright get furious charge or feel no pain or it will not die/fearless, without conditions like in the 6th edition personal traits table. I would argue that they got a lot worse- Furious Charge and Counterattack do not "echo" to the rest of the squad and the old versions of them gave the rule to the Warlord's whole unit. The new Personal table is atrocious because it only ever benefits the Warlord (bad the Fearless one), so your trait is affecting a single model in your army with a mediocre benefit. HiveCommander posted:I know that Lords of War are in, I thought that only a HQ model with the 'Character' rule could be a Warlord though. Is that really gone? Can I really no longer deny Slay the Warlord by fielding Tervigons as my HQ choices? Under the new rules, any model in your army can be its warlord- however, if you do not pick a character, they do not receive a warlord trait. jng2058 posted:From a tournament standpoint you're screwing yourself with the All Daemons All the Time list. It took those guys six hours to play a full game, and most tournament slots don't go past four. If the game ends on turn 2 and you have 3000pts of models, chance are you're sitting on most of the objectives. Hollismason posted:I'm not going to bring this up anywhere but here, but you can shut down a summoning army pretty fast with those Servo Skull things. Servo-Skulls only affect Scout and Infiltrate by enemy units, not Deep Strike.
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May 26, 2014 07:13
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Yes, I got it confused with something else. Now to watch this argument about Grey Knight Rhinos casting Vortex.
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May 26, 2014 07:21
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Hollismason posted:Um... I think Grey Knight Rhinos can cast Vortex and other Sanctic powers. I have to investigate this further. The rulebook gave all psykers access to Daemonology, Psychic Pilot counts as a ML1 psyker, previously the only Psychic power available to them was Fortitude. The reason they couldn't take any Disciplines before or any other powers and had to take Fortitude was that that was all that was available to them. Now they have access to Fortitude and Daemonology. Well uh... That's something. So my 40 point Rhinos can now turn into mini Vindicators?
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May 26, 2014 07:27
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HiveCommander posted:Well uh... That's something. So my 40 point Rhinos can now turn into mini Vindicators? Until it's FAQ or working as intended, probably. I can't find anything in the main rulebook, in fact it says vehicles can use psychic powers and that Psychic Pilots count as Psykers, and Psychic Pilots for Greyknights count as ML1. Previously they had access only to the Psychic Power : Fortitude. Now the Psychic Powers they have access to are Fortitude, Daemonology : Sanctic. Also you'd have to actually roll that. I'm argue about it elsewhere I'm sure there is something that stops this. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 07:32 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 07:30
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Hollismason posted:Until it's FAQ or working as intended, probably. I can't find anything in the main rulebook, in fact it says vehicles can use psychic powers and that Psychic Pilots count as Psykers, and Psychic Pilots for Greyknights count as ML1. Previously they had access only to the Psychic Power : Fortitude. Now the Psychic Powers they have access to are Fortitude, Daemonology : Sanctic. I hope so, because that's just stupid. Hilarious, but stupid  Where does it say that GK Psychic Pilots can roll on the Sanctic chart? Can regular GKSS/GKTs etc roll on BRB tables, too?
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May 26, 2014 07:32
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Okay you can't do it. Sort of. Jury is still out but I think not.
Hollismason fucked around with this message at 07:43 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 07:34
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FAQ will probably make that not possible but for now it's totally legit as far as I can tell.
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May 26, 2014 07:38
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Seems like we're gagging for those FAQs now, not that they'll likely fix the important issues. The group I game with are probably just going to cap the number of summoned units either at 3 units, or a rough % of the points value of the game, so no 3000 points of daemons in a 1000 point scrap.
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May 26, 2014 07:39
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ghetto wormhole posted:FAQ will probably make that not possible but for now it's totally legit as far as I can tell. There's a entry about Psykers generating specific powers automatically having that power, but it's weird wording on All Psykers have access to Daemonology. In some Army List Entries, a Psyker will have one or more specific psychic powers listed – where this is the case, it will be clearly stated. These Psykers always start the game with those psychic powers. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him. It's going to be Faqed.
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May 26, 2014 07:44
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Hollismason posted:It's in the 7th BRB, all Psykers can choose Daemonology but Grey Knights can only choose Sanctic, Daemons only Malefic. No other charts though. Isn't there the big chart in the BRB that tells us the power availability? From memory, the psychic cards had a card chart showing GKs could use everything except Malefic and Telekinesis I think. The 6th ed book stated that only GK librarians could roll on the BRB charts so I was wondering if there was something similar, but if it's all psykers* then that's awesome for me. *Excluding Tyranids
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May 26, 2014 07:44
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Could the psychic vehicles also then shoot in the shooting phase? Seems like the return of the henchmen (psykers) in razorbacks. Vortex and psycannon sounds all right.
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May 26, 2014 07:46
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HiveCommander posted:Isn't there the big chart in the BRB that tells us the power availability? From memory, the psychic cards had a card chart showing GKs could use everything except Malefic and Telekinesis I think. The 6th ed book stated that only GK librarians could roll on the BRB charts so I was wondering if there was something similar, but if it's all psykers* then that's awesome for me. Sort of not really, in the psychic deck there's this stupid quick reference chart that states all this bullshit and doesn't make any sense. There's no such chart in the 7th BRB which is dumb but all psykers do have access to Daemonology but yeah Take Vehicles like cheap dumb vehicles. Because they add to your Warp Pool now. edit: About the Psychic Pilot thing and why Greyknights, because Greyknights specifically does not say it doesn't roll for Psychic powers and always knows that. Hemlock Fighter specifies that. I think those are the only two vehicles in the game with that ability. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 07:54 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 07:48
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Moola posted:Ok, I'll stop now, I'm very sorry. So, the moral of the story is that Moola must set aside the emotions of regret and empathy and be like a true predator in the swamp?  THIS MCDONALD'S IS TAINTED, SQUAD BROKEN! Content: my brother trolls eBay for deals on warhams all the time, I want to ask him a question but he has really poor impulse control so don't want to risk inspiring him to get more "gifts." Have the current line of Plaguebearers been showing up for good prices online? I really don't need more right now, but eventually I shall add one more group to complete the set (I have the stupid metal monkeybearers, converted WHFB Skeletons, and Dryads).
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May 26, 2014 08:22
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Post 9-11 User posted:So, the moral of the story is that Moola must set aside the emotions of regret and empathy and be like a true predator in the swamp? I haven't checked Ebay for Daemons in a while but last time I checked (which was long before 7e rumors) 2nd hand Plaguebearers were REALLY uncommon and pretty close to normal retail price mainly because they're a very strong unit in-game and I expect they will be even less common now even if their "Stealth Grenades" turned into Blind Grenades. Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 09:08 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 09:05
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And RAW space wolves still gently caress over psychic powers on a 4+
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May 26, 2014 09:52
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Post 9-11 User posted:
I hate being this guy, but gently caress it, a man can't change what he is: It's "trawls". Like a trawler is a kind of fishing boat, 'trawling' is dragging a net to pick stuff up. Sorry again.
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May 26, 2014 11:59
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Genghis Cohen posted:I hate being this guy, but gently caress it, a man can't change what he is: Look, you don't know for sure he's wrong; maybe his brother posts inflammatory messages and compares people to Hitler on Ebay. It's not outside the realm of possibility.
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May 26, 2014 12:13
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