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Ignite Memories posted:Ah, ok, so you're saying that the solution to my army getting crippled is buying even more orks? If your army is 12 ork boyz in a trukk... then, yes, you probably need some more orks. The army generally thrives with a high model count. And, my point is, the sky isn't falling. Ork trukks have always been paper thin and can be wrecked pretty simply by bolter fire. You're always going to suffer a high volume of casualty running trukks and the ability for someone to do a couple of wounds to the occupants of an open topped vehicle is pretty negligible odds were that the vehicle was going to get wrecked anyway. and sure, non open topped vehicles can't be flamed... but they also can't be used to assault from. there's also a few things that got better for orks in 7th as well. the change to the damage chart means that your battlewagons are now less likely to explode which means you can rely on them to block line of sight, even after they've been wrecked. Overkill in challenges means a PK nob can now take out a chunk of a unit and isn't stuck fighting one model in the first round of combat. plus there's a new codex, next month? edit: and here's some of my orks for the top of the page    
Cataphract fucked around with this message at 16:20 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 16:11
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YOU DON'T SAY?
Who needs anti-tank in an edition when I can just shoot flamethrowers at my enemy's vehicles and - 
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Ignite Memories posted:Oh, only MY vehicles can take damage like that? It won't have that much of an impact, honestly. You should be able to charge out of normal flamer range anyways, and heldrakes will still vector strike+flamer guys over just flaming guys. Nobody is going to load up on hellhounds and the pipeline terrain pieces just to counter the ork/dark eldar threat. However it is still a random poo poo change that just punishes orks and dark eldar for no reason seeing as those armies aren't very strong on their own. Coupled with the assault out of closed vehicle changes it seems GW loves random rules for the sake of random rules.
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May 26, 2014 16:12
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LordAba posted:It won't have that much of an impact, honestly. You should be able to charge out of normal flamer range anyways, and heldrakes will still vector strike+flamer guys over just flaming guys. Nobody is going to load up on hellhounds and the pipeline terrain pieces just to counter the ork/dark eldar threat. actually vector strike got nerfed. it now only does 1 hit against ground targets as opposed to d3+1 and, yeah, if you're an ork army playing against someone who is spamming flamer weapons you're hosed from the get go.
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May 26, 2014 16:14
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I've got 2 trukks, 2 wagons and 3 buggies and i've got enough loving vehicles thank you very much. But it sure fucks up my wagon full of shoota boyz, who actually appreciated the option of hanging out in their transport for a couple turns and not getting obliterated instantly like all the rest of my troops choices. I've been running hard boyz and MANZ in the two trucks because 12 boyz in T-shirts literally never accomplished anything ever. So now a single heavy flamer pointed in the window can roast 100 points of hard boyz without even NEEDING to draw their anti-vehicle weapons, and now those are free to shoot at my meganobz. The point of meching up is that even though your vehicles were PROBABLY going to get wrecked, sometimes they wouldn't, and that squad would be ready to kick some rear end. It was literally my army's armor save. Now we can't even count on that. The overkill thing is neat, but it should have already been that way for the last five years. Sorry if i'm not super stoked that I got a couple of my power klaw hits back, but you're basically asking me to thank them for removing their boots from my testicles and stomping somewhere else.
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May 26, 2014 16:18
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Chill the gently caress out dude. It's not like the flamer is going to be sitting right next to your AV loving 10 vehicle on turn one. I don't know about you, but I find AV 10 open topped vehicles as easy to pop as just pointing at them and rolling dice. This doesn't really change very much and is a pretty nice balance to being able to assault from vehicles.
Boon fucked around with this message at 16:25 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 16:22
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Ignite Memories posted:I've got 2 trukks, 2 wagons and 3 buggies and i've got enough loving vehicles thank you very much. But it sure fucks up my wagon full of shoota boyz, who actually appreciated the option of hanging out in their transport for a couple turns and not getting obliterated instantly like all the rest of my troops choices. I've been running hard boyz and MANZ in the two trucks because 12 boyz in T-shirts literally never accomplished anything ever. So now a single heavy flamer pointed in the window can roast 100 points of hard boyz without even NEEDING to draw their anti-vehicle weapons, and now those are free to shoot at my meganobz. but if it's wagons full of shootas they'll be 18 inches away from the guys with the flamers... and like I said, a heldrake's a heldrake. They're nasty in any situation but, they'll get d6 hits against the occupants of a wagon which is at most 36 points of shoota boys a turn. presuming it kills the full 6 every turn it only makes its cost back after turn 5.
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May 26, 2014 16:24
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Cataphract posted:but if it's wagons full of shootas they'll be 18 inches away from the guys with the flamers... and like I said, a heldrake's a heldrake. They're nasty in any situation but, they'll get d6 hits against the occupants of a wagon which is at most 36 points of shoota boys a turn. presuming it kills the full 6 every turn it only makes its cost back after turn 5. Oh is it only d6? That's much more reasonable than what I was picturing. Cuz you know us orks, we like to actually squeeze all of the models onto the vehicle if we can. I was picturing a flamer template which hit basically everything in the vehicle. I'm just a grumpy gus because my army was at a pretty reasonable power level when I first started and I got to slowly watch it become a joke. If they make warpheads not suck it'll go a long way for me. My dual warphead HQ loadout was one of the the most unpredictable ways one could forfeit a game of warhammer. Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 16:31 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 16:26
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Cataphract posted:actually vector strike got nerfed. it now only does 1 hit against ground targets as opposed to d3+1 Actually the Heldrake still does it's crazy Vector Strike thing, cause it's a special rule in it's Codex. Just like CCB in Necron still gets the Sweep Attack even though that was removed from Chariots. Blue Scribes are also hilariously broken right now, if anyone is wondering they cast a spell automatically , you can pick Malefic, they can automatically summon a Daemon or get Possessed by a Greater Daemon. Their 81 points.
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May 26, 2014 16:28
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Ignite Memories posted:Oh is it only d6? That's much more reasonable than what I was picturing. every army gets its day in the sun* and the new ork dex is just around the corner *except tyranids
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May 26, 2014 16:32
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Boon posted:This doesn't really change very much and is a pretty nice balance to being able to assault from vehicles. I thought the balance to assault was overwatch, and the fact that you would be assaulting with fewer models (transport capacity and all that). I am sure since it is assault it needs something else to help those poor badly done by shoota gitz. But you shouldn't have been taking Trukk Boyz if you actually gave a poo poo about them doing anything. They aren't even a good throw away unit. Seriously, just take 3 MANz in a trukk for 155pts. Thanks to the fact that you can now take multiple detachments, you can have loads of MANz with Bosses in Trukks. These guys laugh at most templates. The moral of the story is that the list was not competitive to begin with. If you don't care about winning, nothing has changed. If you are playing for laughs with your mates, just house-rule it away. edit for grammar and poo poo
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May 26, 2014 16:36
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Yeah i'm mostly nervous b/c my main WH homie is a tyranid player and I got to watch his new codexes continually gently caress his poo poo up. edit: did you not read my posts, raphus? I stopped taking normal trukk boys long ago. But unless I run an all-mega armor army, SOMETHING fragile is going to be in vehicles. Especailly the wagons. Don' be raggin' on my list, you don't know me. this list used to do really well.  They just keep changing the rules in ways that make it worse. That's a pretty reasonable thing to get grumpy about.
Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 16:46 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 16:36
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TheChirurgeon posted:ANAmal.net's Dark Angels (stupid idiot assholes) Dark Angels look great too, from what I can see. Post 9-11 User posted:Get them painted, ANAmal!
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May 26, 2014 16:37
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Raphus C posted:I thought the balance to assault was overwatch, and the fact that you would be assaulting with fewer models (transport capacity and all that), but I am sure since it is assault it needs something else to help those poor-done-by shoota gitz. Turn 2... we charge.
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May 26, 2014 16:39
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Thundercloud posted:See what I should be doing is finishing my space marines. What I'm thinking of doing is digging out the two black reaches + extra 30 orks plus warbikes plus grots plus 3 killa kans I've got and starting to put together a proper ork army. I've got about 90 boyz, but 60 have choppas and 30 have shootas, and as assault hasn't been fixed I'm a bit leery of two units of 30 boyz with pistols. Don't be; I've found tremendous success by just ignoring shooting altogether and focusing on getting stuck in. That said, a 30-strong mob of shoota-packing 'Ard Boyz camping a mid-field objective is a pretty strong deterrent, so shoota boyz have their uses, too. Boon posted:Chill the gently caress out dude. It's not like the flamer is going to be sitting right next to your AV loving 10 vehicle on turn one. I don't know about you, but I find AV 10 open topped vehicles as easy to pop as just pointing at them and rolling dice. This doesn't really change very much and is a pretty nice balance to being able to assault from vehicles. No balance against assault vehicles was ever needed, though. Removing models from the front, random charge range, I1 through difficult terrain, and Overwatch all hurt assault this edition ("these editions?"). Only 2 of those were ever needed to reduce the threat from assault. Now, to counter the lot of it, I just have full-30 choppa mobs running up the board constantly until they get to start hacking. If I bring backup shooting to help out my foot mobs, then I lose charge range because the enemy's models get removed from the front, too. The end result is to even come up short of other armies' effectiveness, Orks have to really focus on spending as much or more in way of points on just target saturation to ensure something makes it across the board.
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May 26, 2014 16:45
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Fun with FOC Combined arms tactics HQ Necron Lord on CCB w/ Fixings Troops 5 Man Warrior Ghost Ark 5 Man Warrior F. Attack Scarabs x 10 H. Support Tomb Spyder x 3 Tomb Spyder x 3 Tomb Spyder x 3 Combined Arms Destroyer Lord Troops 5 x Warriors 5 x Warriors F. Attack 6 Wraiths H. Support Annihilation Barge Annihilation Barge Annihilation Barge Bad Idea?
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May 26, 2014 17:00
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Who even takes flamers in squads when you can have a plasma/melta gun too?
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May 26, 2014 17:04
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Hollismason posted:Actually the Heldrake still does it's crazy Vector Strike thing, cause it's a special rule in it's Codex. Just like CCB in Necron still gets the Sweep Attack even though that was removed from Chariots. Heldrake's Meteoric Descent special rule just lets them do a Vector Strike while zooming, and the attack is resolved at S7. Otherwise it follows all the rules for a Vector Strike, which means it's only 1 attack against ground targets. serious gaylord posted:Who even takes flamers in squads when you can have a plasma/melta gun too? People who load them up in drop pods/DS/vendettas I guess? I suppose you could load up a Sternguard squad with combi-flamers/heavy flamer in a drop pod if you really want to get rid of an infantry unit, but it'd be kind of pointless all things considered. Slimnoid fucked around with this message at 17:07 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 17:05
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serious gaylord posted:Who even takes flamers in squads when you can have a plasma/melta gun too? I guess someone planning on facing Orks? joke answer 30k death guard.
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May 26, 2014 17:07
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Morkanaut pic: e: possible new MANz in the pic too.
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May 26, 2014 17:10
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Lungboy posted:e: possible new MANz in the pic too. Just about to post that. If true, YES! No excuse to complain about templates now.
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May 26, 2014 17:11
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:I guess someone planning on facing Orks? Well yeah but your typical army would still be better off with Plasma guns. Even against Orks since they will smash their transports up at the opposite side of the table, not do 2-3 wounds once they're in assault range.
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May 26, 2014 17:13
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serious gaylord posted:Who even takes flamers in squads when you can have a plasma/melta gun too? 15-25 points can buy a guard blob between 3-5x d3 autohits in an overwatch and you can sit them at the back of the unit. That's actually quite useful as a good 7 hits or so can cause a casualty or two, not even counting your lasguns. Saved my bacon more than once!
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May 26, 2014 17:14
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Slimnoid posted:Heldrake's Meteoric Descent special rule just lets them do a Vector Strike while zooming, and the attack is resolved at S7. Otherwise it follows all the rules for a Vector Strike, which means it's only 1 attack against ground targets. Whats weird is I actually have a Chaos Space Marine army, and have read the rulebook and still believed a guy when he started doing D6 Vector Strike hits with Heldrakes to my army. I will never trust anyone ever again.
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May 26, 2014 17:16
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Also lovely as so many open topped vehicles carry T3 and/or 5+ or worse save units. Perfect for flamers, who can shoot into you now as well as overwatch in the same loving turn.
spacegoat fucked around with this message at 17:22 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 17:19
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Reminder that flamers have a range of ~8", while transported units can assault from >8" away...
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May 26, 2014 17:21
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Oh boy. I hope a MORKANAUT can just be full of bomb squigs
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May 26, 2014 17:23
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Combined Armies really seem the way to go right now, you want to have 4 troops plus you get all the extra FOCs and are Battleforged. I can't see a reason to just only take a Primary Detachment unless you only have 1 HQ.
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May 26, 2014 17:24
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Liking the Morkanaut, especially the fact you can swap the arms over. New MANZ looking good too, hopefully they'll be better prices than the current Finecast ones (fat chance).
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May 26, 2014 17:27
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May 26, 2014 17:27
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Cataphract posted:Oh boy. I hope a MORKANAUT can just be full of bomb squigs This would be fantastic. Drive it up to their lines, open the door and blow everything up (including yourself). I have converted up a new "biker" boss and will post WIP pics soon. Thanks to the changes in &e, I now have an excuse to have more than 15 Killa Kans, 5 Deff Dreads and more Boyz than you can shake a stick at. I also have 3 Biker bosses now. 4 if you count an old one that looks like poo poo. I hope Ork bikes get cheaper. Much, much cheaper. Wazdakka should let you summon more bikes.
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May 26, 2014 17:29
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S6 3d6, RIP fire warriors forever
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May 26, 2014 17:29
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Raphus C posted:Just about to post that. If true, YES! Unless you're a Dark Eldar player of course. 
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May 26, 2014 17:30
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Lungboy posted:Reminder that flamers have a range of ~8", while transported units can assault from >8" away... Wall of death ignores the range of the template and as such template weapons will always hit units declaring a charge even if they are 12" away.
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May 26, 2014 17:32
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Lungboy posted:Morkanaut pic: Not a super-heavy walker, looking forward to immobilising/exploding it in the first turn.
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May 26, 2014 17:33
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Cataphract posted:Wall of death ignores the range of the template and as such template weapons will always hit units declaring a charge even if they are 12" away. Well yes, I was pointing out that it's possible to stay out of range of the flamers whilst still being in range to assault, so you don't get double-flamed.
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May 26, 2014 17:34
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:S6 3d6, RIP fire warriors forever Ballistic Skill 2. Sykic posted:Not a super-heavy walker, looking forward to immobilising/exploding it in the first turn. God dammit.
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May 26, 2014 17:35
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Slimnoid posted:Ballistic Skill 2. You throw enough poo poo at a wall...
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May 26, 2014 17:36
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:S6 3d6, RIP fire warriors forever It's 10-11 shots on the average at BS2, so don't get too concerned. That's 2-3 hits/wounds before cover.
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May 26, 2014 17:36
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Lungboy posted:Morkanaut pic: The MANz look like repaints of the existing ones. From what we've heard (from the same source who first described the Gorkamorkanaughts), the new MANz are a complete redesign.
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May 26, 2014 17:40
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Daedleh posted:The MANz look like repaints of the existing ones. From what we've heard (from the same source who first described the Gorkamorkanaughts), the new MANz are a complete redesign. If there were brand new Mega Nobz, they wouldnt be using old ones in pictures with this model.
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May 26, 2014 17:43
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