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BaronVonVaderham posted:Most things are more tolerable than a forced mulligan every game. I don't remember who it was but someone said of the recent PT "Whoever didn't mulligan won every game." Block and upcoming Standard look pretty harsh on mulligans and seem sort of predicated on incremental value.
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May 27, 2014 00:13
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I'm curious to see if there'll be any more strong discard in the near future to make using Waste Not a stronger proposition in standard rather than just a lovely gimmick.
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May 27, 2014 00:33
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Gynovore posted:A really dedicated sleazy vendor would crack the cases, box map, an re-shrinkwrap them. Of course, people would soon be flooding the message boards with "I bought 8 cases from Joe's Card Shack and only got 2 mythics, WTF?" Or you could go even bigger and map enough boxes to refill a box with packs of the same rare. "Huh, I bought a box and cracked eighteen Trait Doctorings. What are the odds?" C-Euro fucked around with this message at 01:16 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 00:46
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BaronVonVaderham posted:Most things are more tolerable than a forced mulligan every game. Whenever I'm playing modern against someone who is playing black, its a turn one Inquisition or Thoughseize. Really sucks, but you just start building decks around that. I'd rather hope for a new enchantment/artifact that is 2 or something that says "Whenever you discard a card, you may draw a card." which would rule and I would love it forever.
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May 27, 2014 00:47
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GoutPatrol posted:Whenever I'm playing modern against someone who is playing black, its a turn one Inquisition or Thoughseize. Really sucks, but you just start building decks around that. Land Destruction was the first casualty. The Ownage wars had begun...
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May 27, 2014 00:53
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Everblight posted:Exactly. One of the key things that sets Magic apart from the other CCGs is that in things like Yu-Gi-OH! you're just trying to windmill slam bombs faster/harder than the other guy, where in Magic disruption is a vital component to keep the game from being "I drew more Thragtusks than you, I win." Having to play around/plan enough redundancy to survive a little control is what keeps us from living in a world where those wacky 9-land Blistercoil Weird combos reign supreme because no one has any sort of disruption. Exactly. One time I made a white deck with barely any removal in it and just got cowed by some guy running a mill deck with a 26 toughness Tree of Redemption.
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May 27, 2014 00:56
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TheKingofSprings posted:This is honestly more often than not what standard has been for the last 5-6 years, so the trend suggests you'll see it happen again and again, just with a new face each time. In recent years the only things I can assume would be similar were turn 1 delvers or pithing needles or birds of paradise (into turn 2 birthing pod). At least with those, you can have answers that aren't removed from your hand the way thoughtseize does it. However, quote:Exactly. One of the key things that sets Magic apart from the other CCGs is that in things like Yu-Gi-OH! you're just trying to windmill slam bombs faster/harder than the other guy, where in Magic disruption is a vital component to keep the game from being "I drew more Thragtusks than you, I win." Having to play around/plan enough redundancy to survive a little control is what keeps us from living in a world where those wacky 9-land Blistercoil Weird combos reign supreme because no one has any sort of disruption. Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 00:59 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 00:57
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change my name posted:Exactly. One time I made a white deck with barely any removal in it and just got cowed by some guy running a mill deck with a 26 toughness Tree of Redemption. Please tell me he was using Phenax.
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May 27, 2014 01:00
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GoutPatrol posted:I'd rather hope for a new enchantment/artifact that is 2 or something that says "Whenever you discard a card, you may draw a card." which would rule and I would love it forever.
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May 27, 2014 01:01
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Everblight posted:Exactly. One of the key things that sets Magic apart from the other CCGs is that in things like Yu-Gi-OH! you're just trying to windmill slam bombs faster/harder than the other guy, where in Magic disruption is a vital component to keep the game from being "I drew more Thragtusks than you, I win." Having to play around/plan enough redundancy to survive a little control is what keeps us from living in a world where those wacky 9-land Blistercoil Weird combos reign supreme because no one has any sort of disruption. There was a time in Yugioh where decks ran Don Zaloog and a bunch of hand disruption like Confiscation, The Forceful Sentry, Delinquent Duo and then winning with Yata-Garasu to prevent you from drawing. All of those cards are currently banned in that game.
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May 27, 2014 01:02
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vOv posted:Please tell me he was using Phenax. This was actually before Nyx dropped, I ended up losing first in our 6-way game because he focused on me and had something to redirect all attacking creatures to his stupid tree.
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May 27, 2014 01:03
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Entropic posted:That wouldn't be played to frustrate Thoughtseize, it would be played to break cards like Izzet Charm, Wild Guess, Prognostic Sphinx and Bloodrush dudes in half. "Whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard a card, draw a card."
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May 27, 2014 01:05
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GoutPatrol posted:Whenever I'm playing modern against someone who is playing black, its a turn one Inquisition or Thoughseize. Really sucks, but you just start building decks around that. The difference is that in an older format decks are powerful enough to deal with it. You can punish your opponent severely for taking 4 or 5 damage on the first turn, because in Modern there is an added cost to running 4 Thoughtseize: You hemorrhage life through lands, and that needs to be taken into account (what deck in Modern runs 4 Thoughtseize main?). Inquisition is a conditional spell, and as such, there's a cost to running them in that it might be useless, especially drawn late in the game. Thoughtseize is ALWAYS USEFUL as long as you're at 3+ life and your opponent has a card in his hand. In Standard, there is virtually zero downside to running Thoughtseize if you play black. There IS no downside if you're MONO black (it's harmful if you're, say, forcing Jund and running 12 shocklands), which also happens to have ridiculous lifegain right now. It's pretty hosed up that a SIDE EFFECT of one of the primary win conditions of the deck automatically counteracts the supposed down-side of losing life to play Thoughtseize. You don't even need to build the deck to mitigate the damage, it's done for you. It's not like Duress where the meta dictates its effectiveness and can react to its prevalence, it is always going to be devastating and there is no way to play around it other than "don't ever mulligan because you will lose". I'm all for disruption, but I'm also for cards that don't just play themselves and don't make it impossible to play the game if your opening 7 isn't perfect.
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May 27, 2014 01:08
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If my local meta is any indication ( ), decks like 8-Rack are the only thing keeping UR Storm from dominating every tournament. 
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May 27, 2014 01:13
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vOv posted:"Whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard a card, draw a card." Nobody would play this. By the time that you can play this card, they've already t1 thoughtseized you. It also doesn't do a whole lot. You'd still frown to a thoughtseize, even if you did have one of these out.
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May 27, 2014 01:15
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They just need a Dodecapod variant that forces your opponent to choose it from your hand when you're forced to discard. Or just ban Thoughtseize because it's a dumb card that shouldn't have been printed.
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May 27, 2014 01:17
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Dr. Stab posted:Nobody would play this. By the time that you can play this card, they've already t1 thoughtseized you. It also doesn't do a whole lot. You'd still frown to a thoughtseize, even if you did have one of these out. "If your opponent would force you to discard a card you may instead discard this card from your hand to counter that spell. Draw a card."
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May 27, 2014 01:19
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vOv posted:"Whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard a card, draw a card."  This card has existed for 15 years and I'm not sure it's ever been played competitively. Starving Autist fucked around with this message at 01:30 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 01:20
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Oraculum Animi posted:"If your opponent would force you to discard a card you may instead discard this card from your hand to counter that spell. Draw a card." Nah, by the time the spell is resolving it's too late. "If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard a card, you may discard ~ instead. If you do, draw a card."
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May 27, 2014 01:21
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vOv posted:Nah, by the time the spell is resolving it's too late. "If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard a card, you may discard ~ instead. If you do, draw a card." I like this concept. Make it something like a creature ability that works in your hand (like Ninjutsu or Bloodrush). It's not direct hate for Thoughtseize, but it does allow a creature deck to build in some protection if it's running rampant. Also effective. \/ \/ \/ BaronVonVaderham fucked around with this message at 01:33 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 01:25
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Bring back Madness! E: Specifically, stuff with madness 0.
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May 27, 2014 01:28
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White at least has that little Ivory Mask guy. Forcing an enemy to use removal on a 2/1 before they can Thoughtseize might let you get Brimaz out a little more often if they don't just run it out t1 and you're not on the draw! 
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May 27, 2014 01:28
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:
Dat art.  "Have at you, werebeast! Your eye-ink is no match for my magical forehead!" But that card is pretty cool, and aggressively costed. The way they're trying to push discard lately, I could see it fitting in somewhere in this coming standard.
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May 27, 2014 01:32
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vOv posted:Nah, by the time the spell is resolving it's too late. "If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard a card, you may discard ~ instead. If you do, draw a card." I was trying to make it so it wasn't a dead card if your opponent didn't have any hand hate. So you could hard cast it for, like, one mana and draw a card. "If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard a card, you may discard ~ instead. Draw a card." Does that still work? do u believe in marigolds fucked around with this message at 01:41 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 01:36
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Gynovore posted:A really dedicated sleazy vendor would crack the cases, box map, an re-shrinkwrap them. Of course, people would soon be flooding the message boards with "I bought 8 cases from Joe's Card Shack and only got 2 mythics, WTF?"
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May 27, 2014 01:43
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odiv posted:I thought this is why they have WotC branded shrink wrap. This is exactly why they have WotC branded shrink wrap.
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May 27, 2014 01:45
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I think a more likely "discard hoser" would be another take on the Smiter/Baloth trigger. Say, a creature with "Reveal $CARDNAME$ from your hand: Whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard a card this turn, draw a card."
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May 27, 2014 01:47
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Dungeon Ecology posted:Dat art. That card is awful.
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May 27, 2014 01:51
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Entropic posted:I think a more likely "discard hoser" would be another take on the Smiter/Baloth trigger. Say, a creature with "Reveal $CARDNAME$ from your hand: Whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard a card this turn, draw a card." Dictate of "We're Sorry About Thoughtseize" 0 mana Enchantment Flash Spells or abilities an opponent controls cannot cause you to discard cards.
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May 27, 2014 01:53
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It costs two mana, that'll really help against Thoughtseize and Duress. Yeah Yeah, I realize not all discard shows up turn one but still.
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May 27, 2014 01:53
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Devor posted:Dictate of "We're Sorry About Thoughtseize" They made this card already, it's called Leyline of Sanctity.
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May 27, 2014 01:55
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Red Deck Wins question: I'm doing a mono-red RDW, and I was wondering if going Legion Loyalist over Mindsparker or Chandra's Phoenix would be a good idea? Or if Legion Loyalist is worth maindecking or even sidedecking?
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May 27, 2014 02:15
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homerlaw posted:Red Deck Wins question: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/10707
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May 27, 2014 02:19
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I don't actually play competitive constructed anymore, but a 1 mana 1/1 generally has to be very good to be actually worth playing in anything.
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May 27, 2014 02:28
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Boco_T posted:It looks like only 22% of the most successful MTGO RDW lists run Legion Loyalist, making it the least-common creature: What would you recommend swapping it out for then, Gore-House Chainwalker, Foundry Street Denizen, ????
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May 27, 2014 02:31
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In an aggro deck you want your one drop to get in for at least 2 damage per turn. If you can even turn on his Batallion, your creatures are small enough that the trample doesn't matter so much and the first strike is borderline, and the tokens clause will usually be irrelevant. You'd probably rather be playing Rakdos Cackler or Foundry Street Denizen simply because they can more reliably get 2-4 damage in quickly.
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May 27, 2014 02:35
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I don't even see Firedrinker Satyr in your list, that's a must 4-of in RDW because it's great.
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May 27, 2014 02:37
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Loyalist might be a good SB option if you see a lot of Master of Waves tokens, but I can't say for certain.
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May 27, 2014 02:39
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:
Someone was actually boarding it in legacy a few weeks ago, I forget what kind of list though. They made a big deal of it when they went to SB though, I remember they put it on screen.
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May 27, 2014 02:39
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Man, I wish instead of cards like Duress and Thoughtseize, they printed cards where you name the card to discard before they reveal their hand, like Cabal Therapy and Brain Pry. "Do you have a Jace, the Mind Sculptor?" "Nope, go fish!"
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May 27, 2014 02:50
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