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Kawaii Kiwi
Sep 22, 2004
I'm a sad panda too.
It has come to my attention that I am in fact incorrect. Look at this dog. He's gotten all the epic swords. He can't even use them. He doesn't have hands. That man is wishing he had spent 1000 hours grinding for epic swords.

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Woden
May 6, 2006
I like it because every run could be the jackpot, doing Shroud 10 times feels more like work than fun. Maybe I get lucky and pull what I need from the first run maybe I don't, but I'll always be one lucky run away instead of ~15 or whatever for each CitW weapon. I get the bad RNG thing though and know the pain, took me around 80 runs for the MS Boots on one of my toons too and 40/60/80 DQs for 3 Torcs but poo poo like that can be evened out with stuff like improved 20th lists.

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

Woden posted:

I like it because every run could be the jackpot, doing Shroud 10 times feels more like work than fun. Maybe I get lucky and pull what I need from the first run maybe I don't, but I'll always be one lucky run away instead of ~15 or whatever for each CitW weapon. I get the bad RNG thing though and know the pain, took me around 80 runs for the MS Boots on one of my toons too and 40/60/80 DQs for 3 Torcs but poo poo like that can be evened out with stuff like improved 20th lists.

I get the feeling you buy lottery tickets.

I have never made an epic item. Never gotten all 4 things needed. It mean't that every single run I did was a chore and not even a chore that I was rewarded for. That was basically the worst experience in a game and I dropped it after hitting that point. I would run something everyday for a week and have absolutely nothing to show for it. gently caress that. OH man the next one could be a jackpot, oh wait no its my 500th scroll of SoS. Ill throw it into the bag with the rest of them I guess.

muizvoid
May 14, 2014

Kawaii Kiwi posted:

At least this way you are guaranteed to get something eventually. It took me probably 75 or more runs of the Reaver to get Madstone Boots. This is not hyperbole. A lot of raid items are like that, and you're playing a similar game with the old shards/seals/scrolls thing where you can run a quest dozens of times and never see the thing you need. I seriously do not understand the logic behind wanting items to be that random to get. It isn't even a challenge, it's simply doing the same thing over and over and over and praying to the RNG gods that this time will be the run that gets you your shiny loot. The best I can come up with is the mentality that "well I had to suffer to do this the hard way, so everyone should have to go through that." Or possibly feeling elitist because you managed to get a cool sword that almost no one has because it never drops. At any rate, it's bad game design and I'm glad that Turbine has moved onward to a different system, because gently caress the old epic loot system.

Its not lucky when u constantly and put effort to grind it, use friends to help u, and u will get it for sure, it just a matter of effort.

i usually run epic quest with a static group, therefore it is easy for me to get the seal ,shard, scroll that i want if it drops. We help each other until everybody got what they want. Plus the old epic quest required a lot of strategy and skill (in EE also).

Hmmm ppl just love easy button

Woden
May 6, 2006

kingcom posted:

I get the feeling you buy lottery tickets.

I have never made an epic item. Never gotten all 4 things needed. It mean't that every single run I did was a chore and not even a chore that I was rewarded for. That was basically the worst experience in a game and I dropped it after hitting that point. I would run something everyday for a week and have absolutely nothing to show for it. gently caress that. OH man the next one could be a jackpot, oh wait no its my 500th scroll of SoS. Ill throw it into the bag with the rest of them I guess.

I actually hate gambling IRL as it's just a money sink, in MMOs it's a time sink.

I liked getting tokens as they had uses and value, so never felt like a completion with no seals or shards was wasted time. Not saying the system was perfect but much preferred it to the systems that have come afterwards.

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

muizvoid posted:

Its not lucky when u constantly and put effort to grind it, use friends to help u, and u will get it for sure, it just a matter of effort.

i usually run epic quest with a static group, therefore it is easy for me to get the seal ,shard, scroll that i want if it drops. We help each other until everybody got what they want. Plus the old epic quest required a lot of strategy and skill (in EE also).

Hmmm ppl just love easy button

Lol. Solid post 5/5


Woden posted:

I actually hate gambling IRL as it's just a money sink, in MMOs it's a time sink.

I liked getting tokens as they had uses and value, so never felt like a completion with no seals or shards was wasted time. Not saying the system was perfect but much preferred it to the systems that have come afterwards.


Tokens offered absolutely nothing that interested me in the slightest. They weren't valuable until decent augments started popping up and even then it wasn't a huge deal. CoVs fill that exact same role now.

RosaParksOfDip
May 11, 2009

muizvoid posted:

Its not lucky when u constantly and put effort to grind it, use friends to help u, and u will get it for sure, it just a matter of effort.

i usually run epic quest with a static group, therefore it is easy for me to get the seal ,shard, scroll that i want if it drops. We help each other until everybody got what they want. Plus the old epic quest required a lot of strategy and skill (in EE also).

Hmmm ppl just love easy button

I was going to make a proper post about why your post is ridiculous, but then I remembered that this argument has played out millions of times across hundreds of games.

You're a ridiculous person and you should run off and be ridiculous somewhere in a deep dark corner.

Kawaii Kiwi
Sep 22, 2004
I'm a sad panda too.

muizvoid posted:

Its not lucky when u constantly and put effort to grind it, use friends to help u, and u will get it for sure, it just a matter of effort.

i usually run epic quest with a static group, therefore it is easy for me to get the seal ,shard, scroll that i want if it drops. We help each other until everybody got what they want. Plus the old epic quest required a lot of strategy and skill (in EE also).

Hmmm ppl just love easy button

Haha you're right, I'm just not good enough at this here video game. You've uncovered my secret shame. :dogout:

Game_Whino
Jul 16, 2007

Let's drink until we can't feel anymore!

muizvoid posted:

Plus the old epic quest required a lot of strategy and skill (in EE also).

Hmmm ppl just love easy button



I'm not sure that "perch where mobs can't get you but you can hit mobs" counts as leet skills. The old epic quests required almost no skill or strategy to complete. It was all about abusing AI, stuck spots, and other such nonsense. The new epics seem a bit more active and fun than that (since cheese tactics aren't required)

If you want to run the old epic system, go run stuff on EE.

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
Guild amenities, numbers are at level 28:

Small
  • Arcane Sanctum: +1 guiild bonus to save vs enchantments, +25 guild bonus to max sp, +1 spell penetration
  • Archwizard: +1 guild bonus to spell DCs
  • Archery Range: +2% guild doubleshot
  • Armory: +6 guild bonus to AC, +15% fort
  • Banquet Hall: HP + SP heals, bind point, suppposedly buffs hirelings too.
  • Bash the Breakable's Cargo Bay: +1 guild bonus to treasure chest level
  • Black Abbot's Shadow: +1 Turn undead, lay on hands, and smite evil. +4 deflection bonus to AC, +1 enhancement bonus to saving throws (aka Protection from Evil without the great command immunity)
  • Chronoscope: +3 guild bonus to reflex saves, 40% move speed in public areas (doesn't stack with haste/pendant)
  • Concert Hall: +1 guild bonus to saves vs enchantments, +1 extra bard song per rest, +1 extra action boost per rest
  • Crusader's Chapel: +15 guild positive/negative spellpower. Vendor with divine reagents.
  • Danger Room: +3 disable device, hide, open lock, search, spot. Also has super nasty traps in there if you wanna test yourself or die in the airship.
  • Farshifter: Navigator and the blue gate teleporters around Stormreach combined (adds the Navigator options to the Captain who retains the normal location options)
  • Fencing Master: +2% guild bonus to max dodge, and max dex bonus
  • Floating Rock Garden: Strength and Wisdom buffs (according to placement text, buff text is bugged)
  • Forbidden Library: +3 concentration, heal, repair, spellcraft, use magic device
  • Game Hunter: +3 fort saves, +5% damage to helpeless enemies
  • Grandmaster's Dojo: Buffs to will saves and stunning, sap and hamstring (bugged buff text)
  • Hag's Apothecary: +20 max hp, +1 fort saves vs poison/disease
  • Ninja Assassin: +0.25[W], +6 to-hit while flanking
  • Old Sully's Grog Cellar: Constitution and Charisma buffs (bugged buff text)
  • Otto's Irresistable Dance Hall: +3 balance, jump, move silent, perform, swim, tumble
  • Paradoxical Puzzle Box: Dexterity and Intelligence buffs (bugged buff text)
  • Sellsword's Tavern: Hirelings get +3 all ability scores. Sells level 4-epic hirelings. Tavern regeneration standing in it.
  • Shrine of Experience: +1% (or more as you upgrade it) Guild bonus to experience.
  • Shrine to the Devourer: +15 guild bonus to resist acid/cold. +15 guild bonus to acid/cold spellpower. Ranking it up adds a guild bonus % absorb.
  • Sign of the Silver Flame: +15 guild bonus to resist fire. +15 guild bonus to electric/light spellpower. (Should be fire/light)
  • Stormreaver Memorial: +15 guild bonus to resist electric/sonic. +15 guild bonus to electric/sonic spellpower.
  • Tactical Training Room: +6 base damage on critical hits, +1 bonus to trip/sunder/slicing blow DCs, +2 to-hit with physical attacks
  • The Orien Express: Banker, Auctioneer, Mailbox
  • Three Finger Thad's: Armor, Clothing, and Weapon pawn vendors. And a general vendor selling all normal spell components.
  • Throne Room: +3 bluff, diplomancy, haggle, intimidate, listen
  • Trapsmith's Workshop: +5% fortification bypass. Also has a trapsmith vendor if you have free agents favor.
  • Wild Grove: +2 Extra wild empathy per rest. Summoned/charmed creatures get +3 all ability scores.

Large
  • Bath House: +10% healing amp, +15 unconcious hp range, 10% less damage received while helpless
  • Cannith Crafting Hall: All 5 cannith crafting stations (deconstruction, bound/unbound), vendor with deconstruction stuff and you can trade essences
  • Collegium of the Twelve: Arcane Sanctum, Trapsmith's Workshop, Wild Grove, Crusader's Chapel. Arcane, Divine, and Trapsmith vendors
  • Grand Reliquary: Sign of the Silver Flame, Shrine to the Devourer, Stormreaver Memorial.
  • Greensteel Crafting Hall: All 4 greensteel altars (including the Fecundity for base items)
  • Proving Grounds: Tactical Training Room, Archery Range, Armory, Grandmaster's Dojo. Includes repair, Ammo, House D Ammo vendors.

Stormglory Tempest has 8 small rooms, 2 large - our current ship, one deck
Windspyre Gryphon has 10 small, 2 large (1.8 million plat) - our next ship, two decks
Volant Signet has 15 small, 3 large - 1.85 mil plat and guild level 100 required

Stormglory Typhoon has 13 small, 3 large - 1000 astral shards to buy (no guild level required for AS ships)
Daedalean Glaive has 16 small, 4 large - 1000 astral shards to buy (required Stormglory Typhoon)
Ship after that needs 2k Astral Shards and then 3k Astral Shards.

We've got 750 astral shards sitting in the bank. So if we between us we can come up with 250 more (shouldn't be hard), we could roll with the Typhoon until we hit guild level 100 and then probably switch to the new pirate styled plat ships. Dropping another 1000 shards on the Daedalean Glaive beyond the 1k we need for the Typhoon doesn't really sound terrifically viable unless we get a ton of shards off the AH or the guild becomes super active again. It'll be awhile before we even hit GL100, so I feel the Typhoon is a good investment (especially since 3/4ths of the cost is in the guild airship bank, largely thanks to Kirannos I believe back when it accepted Astral Diamonds).

Which will give us 13 small and 3 larges to play with. I'm thinking Grand Reliquary is one of those larges for sure. The crafting poo poo is helpful but anyone with officer access can hit the hookpoint buttons and swap it over when they need to craft, so unless we somehow have a spare Large, I wouldn't count on those being there (but anyone who plays regularly is an officer so).

Leaning towards Grand Reliquary, Bath House, and one of the other two buff combiners for large. Bath house isn't a huge buff, but there's no healing amp elsewhere with guilds now.

Smalls assuming we do Collegium: Archwizard, Armory, Bash Bay, Chronoscope, Danger Room, Farshifter, Floating Rock Garden, Forbidden Library, Hag's Apothecary, Ninja Assassin, Old Sully's Grog Cellar, Paradoxical Puzzle Box, Shrine of Experience

I'd like Game Hunter and Tactical Training Room, but not sure what's worth giving up for those. Orien Express and Three Finger Thad's fall under the same thing as crafting halls, nice but you can just swap an amenity out as needed. Maybe give up Hag's or Archwizard. Given the 4-5 hour duration and us all being officers, it's not that hard to swap around and get all the buffs really.

[Edit] Ugh right, some poo poo costs shards to buy. Maybe they'll drop in 22.1 as some amenities are supposed to be offered as quest rewards but that's not making it into U22 launch.

Grand Reliquary I: 180 + II: 275 + III: 325 + IV: 395 = 1175 AS
Shrine of Experience I: 95 + II: 195 + III: 325 + IV: 400 + V: 495 = 1510 AS
The Orien Express: 60 AS
Farshifter's Chambers: 90 AS
Forbidden Library: 195 AS
Cannith Crafting Hall: 125 AS

Danger room, otto's room, sellsword, and throne room are the other AS rooms. The other useful poo poo just costs plat.

DemonMage fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Jun 6, 2014

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Training room seems to good to pass up, especially with stick fighters and swashbucklers being the cool kids builds right now, but I don't have any suggestion on what to give up for it. I should be able to put in 150 or so shards whenever I log in next, has a date for the update been set yet?

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
Leaning towards giving up Hag's for Training Room. Those values are at level 28, and at that point 20 hp isn't make or break. It'll prolly be like 10/15/20 hp scaling, which still isn't super impressive. I'll try and get on and get values at level 1 and 15 soon, I'm just too lazy to do that right now (and maybe ever).

We got a new Lammania build today, with no word on it launching this coming week. My guess is 16/17th, with a possibility of being pushed back to 23rd/24th if something happens. But no there hasn't been an official word yet. This latest patch was super small though, and we do know it's coming in June.

[Edit] Also don't put in any shards in until the patch hits please, it's possible these values could change and I'd rather not have anyone waste any shards.

DemonMage fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Jun 6, 2014

Woden
May 6, 2006
What's the level req on those abilities and ships? I thought you had to be level 100-150 for some of the new ships/buffs. If scaling works as they've said our guild will be level 118 or so after the update, so just curious what we could get is all.

Also I thought I read that there's some weirdness to upgrading ships, like you have to buy all the AS ships up to the one you want or something. And some bugginess swapping between plat and AS ships, but that'll probably get sorted.

Edit: found it, mostly: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441927-List-of-the-new-Guild-Amenities

Woden fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Jun 6, 2014

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
Not sure what you mean about scaling, that might have been something I missed? You can't transfer guilds over to Lammania, but it takes 25.2 million renown to hit guild level 80, which is all of 400k less than needed on live.

I was able to go from a Windspire Gryphon to a Stormglory Typhoon to a Volant Signet just fine with my test level 100 guild. So we should be good to go for "starting" with a Typhoon and switching back to plat ships later. And we'll have 4 hour long buffs, it becomes 4.5 at like GL90. Only buffs we won't really have access to is the higher tier of the % absorb resist shrines, and likely won't have the shards for higher tiers of the experience shrine. Probably replace the Hag and the Experience Shrine with Training Room and Game Hunter and wait until we can get the experience shrines from chests or plat. 1% more experience isn't really worth a slot.

Also needing to buy all the ships isn't weirdness, it's similar to how it is on live but forced. Like you can straight up buy a Typhoon for 3850 AS right now, or you could upgrade from the plat ship for 2000. Technically you could just buy plat ones and get a Typhoon but if you went AS all the way up it's 3600, so you save 250 shards at the cost of a few million plat (trivial with even a small guild). With the new system there's no guild level requirements to AS ships and you can get one right at GL1 if you want. It's like 1000 AS, 650, 1000, 1000, 2000, 3000. So getting a Typhoon is actually cheaper under the new system (again assuming the values don't change).

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Can old shrines still be used, or did they nix that idea? If so can't we just keep 1h 4 or 5% xp shrines down there?

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
Yup that's doable. Can even continue buying them after the patch, until they have stuff dropping correctly.

Just ugh gently caress 1 hour buffs that remove on death. Also the get all buffs button doesn't work for the stuff in the cargo hold.

Woden
May 6, 2006
Yeah old buffs suck, the XP one will be the biggest hold over I think because of the AS cost of the new one. And it's the only really needed shrine too. :/

For scaling I meant guild renown, my guild on Cannith is at 77.8 mill and apparently every level after 100 requires the same xp as from 99-100. So level 118 after the update. We get no cool poo poo at all until level 120.

We also waited to buy one with AS until the Typhoon, bunch of cheapskates in this guild and only got the big ship because one moneyed up dude bought it for us. Things are different now with the ASAH as everyone can accumulate shards so not a huge deal, but the forced buying of each tier is new for me. There was a bug I read about where if you buy an AS ship, level up then buy a technically better plat ship you get no ship at all, it'll probably get fixed but that was the bug I was talking about. If you chop and change between plat and AS ships things might get screwy so just do some research first is all I meant about that.

Oh I just did one of the new raids yesterday and got 20 ingots, you need maybe 1500 of them to make a tier 3. Also got 3 dragons scales of which you need maybe 150 to tier 3 something, the grind on this stuff looks really steep. Luckily it's all level 28 crafted gear and there's nothing to do at cap, just wish you could get in there at a lower level so as to grab a few ingredients per TR.

Woden fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Jun 7, 2014

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

Woden posted:

Yeah old buffs suck, the XP one will be the biggest hold over I think because of the AS cost of the new one. And it's the only really needed shrine too. :/

For scaling I meant guild renown, my guild on Cannith is at 77.8 mill and apparently every level after 100 requires the same xp as from 99-100. So level 118 after the update. We get no cool poo poo at all until level 120.

We also waited to buy one with AS until the Typhoon, bunch of cheapskates in this guild and only got the big ship because one moneyed up dude bought it for us. Things are different now with the ASAH as everyone can accumulate shards so not a huge deal, but the forced buying of each tier is new for me. There was a bug I read about where if you buy an AS ship, level up then buy a technically better plat ship you get no ship at all, it'll probably get fixed but that was the bug I was talking about. If you chop and change between plat and AS ships things might get screwy so just do some research first is all I meant about that.

Oh I just did one of the new raids yesterday and got 20 ingots, you need maybe 1500 of them to make a tier 3. Also got 3 dragons scales of which you need maybe 150 to tier 3 something, the grind on this stuff looks really steep. Luckily it's all level 28 crafted gear and there's nothing to do at cap, just wish you could get in there at a lower level so as to grab a few ingredients per TR.

Its only tier 3 thats a super grind. 300 ingots and 100 scales is enough to get tier 2.

Woden
May 6, 2006
Tier 2 seems weaker than CitW stuff though if you can use one of the better weapons from there. Just going to do the raid for the named items and if I get enough ingredients for tier 3 then bonus, otherwise I'm in no rush to make level cap weapons when there's nothing to do at cap.

Oh I just noticed that Bladeforged all seem to be male, only took me 3 lives to see it on my character screen.

Woden fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Jun 9, 2014

Nita
Apr 27, 2008
It's a shame that the new guild buffs don't have a +30 elemental resist anymore. Those were awesome to have as a low level character and are still useful at higher levels. I can't wait to see the new pirate ships though.

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
Yeah, I wish the new ones did that, but our guild will have access to the old version for years if nothing else and those hour long buffs are less annoying for low levels (though remove on death still harsh for new people). And a lot of non-new people are only playing levels 15-28 anyways. By the mid levels the new guild resists at least protect you from elemental weapon damage still, and self cast resists are not so short as to be super aggravating. At the epic levels, Divine Energy Resist makes keeping up resist fairly trivial.

Also U22 is launching this week.
Making medium and heavy armor useful without nerfing light armor idea post from the devs.
Making paladins useful past level 2/6 without gutting 2 paladin builds.

Both of those look really solid (though damage numbers in EE is a way bigger problem than to-hit), and if they keep the +8 max bonus to saves for a 2 splash, that seems mostly fine. That's 26 charisma useful to a 2 splash. Sorcerers are obviously going higher than that, but its not a huge nerf to non sorcerer splashes.

DemonMage fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jun 9, 2014

Tsurupettan
Mar 26, 2011

My many CoX, always poised, always ready, always willing to thrust.

Man all this poo poo I read keeps tempting me into coming back but... I just feel like I'm going to end up playing solo half the time again. :(

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
Uhhh

quote:

We will definitely need to address the lack of good small shields in future content. I know we plan to have small shields and bucklers in the loot for the epic version of Orchard which would be released at the same time as these changes.

Sev~

So that's a thing.

And you're not wrong to some degree Tsu, I mean if you play during US primetime you can join random groups in the higher end, in particular, moderately easy. But guild groups are tough to come by, which is a circular problem. Until epic levels the grouping range is fairly tight, and it's easy to outlevel people with different playing schedules. Which, amongst other things, turns off new players pretty heavily. Which then means even people enjoying the game a lot don't stick around for long, which leaves us with a smaller guild and less people to group with new/returning people.

Woden
May 6, 2006
Whoa, some big nerfs coming. Shame there's no talk about fixing the paladin trees(other than removing shields from stance reqs) in those posts as they're the biggest issue causing them to suck.

I really liked the defensive roll rogue/paladin/monk build I had a while ago and planned to go back to it at some point but these changes are doing my head in. This change has me debating rocking heavy armour instead of robes depending on how it works.

50% damage from def roll, %42 from 200 PRR on everything, then add in 15% guild buff, 50% from always making the save, maybe 10%-30% from an item or 2 and then throw on 50-80 resists. Should make spells trivial and melee much much less damaging all while getting those cool paladin perks that used to be shield exclusive.

Edit: So there will be a new paladin tree and probably fighter too. One tree about SnB DPS(lol) and a defensive SnB tree, twf/swf/thf/ranged paladins will get nothing it seems?

Woden fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jun 10, 2014

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
TWF/etc paladins/fighters get to use the Stalwart Defender stuff without a shield, or the existing DPS trees. I doubt we'll see much in the way of Kensai changing, but we could see Knight changing a little, but it's really not a bad tree as is. And of course Epic Orchard will be full of undead goodness to take advantage of Knight as well.

I'm not seeing much in the way of nerfs though? The dodge cap is a strict bonus to the way it works now. Light armor loses a couple points of PRR at 28/30 if you're full BAB, otherwise it gains PRR (and MRR). Also you'd gain MRR from your PRR items, as well as enhancements possibly. The only major nerf is not being able to use Heavy Shields while evading, and I'm not sure that's going to matter that much. It does nerf some evasion divines using specific existing named shields though I guess. The paladin splash thing for charisma is only something they're throwing around as a big maybe, but I don't think it's going to be much of a nerf for the vast majority of builds (let alone characters), but it does bring up the problem of the saves required on EE so hopefully they look into that as well (and DCs).

Also

quote:

and perhaps even a new class that supported heavy armor and martial abilities.

Warlord maybe...? They don't really use heavy armor, but I could see them choosing to go that angle with them. Support/tactics heavy armor character could be interesting I guess.

---
Regardless I'm happy to see them trying to make heavy armor and shield/weapon viable. It's not one of my favorite thematic concepts, but it's something I want to play sometimes, and it's just never really been more than a gimmick in DDO. So long as they strive for viable, and not required, I'll be happy.

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
Also on the damage in EE front:

quote:

We have been looking at the epic elite melee damage.

That said, the reason we don't only do this is because there are a number of well designed builds currently in play that already thrive in the epic elite content. Lowering the damage and capabilities of the creatures would do nothing to convince the players to move to less powerful builds, nor would it provide a compelling reason to examine the benefits of lots of builds, classes and items that are being largely ignored at the end game. Our goal is not to make the game easier, but rather to provide a wider variety of compelling and fun character builds.

When we examined the current builds being used and read through the player feedback in the balance thread one thing was clear; armored characters were not well represented in the end game. Not only does this shut down a lot of classes, but the heavily armored character is an iconic figure in D&D lore and art. We wanted to give players a reason to develop those types of characters.

Sev~

I think he/they have a point there, but I think part of the problem in EE is that if you get a couple of bad rolls in EE you can blink and be dead as a 100+ PRR low(100~) AC character. While spikes like that are part of the problem inherent in dodgy characters, I'd still like to see something done about it. Lots of smaller hits coming in helps smooth out the damage while still making you vulnerable to streaky bad luck, and I'd like to see more variation in the damage things do again. Giant and giantkin should do poo poo tons of damage when they hit, without hitting quickly. You should also be able to move out of the way of giant attacks again, instead of doing the check at the very very start of their animation. Hobgoblins and Orcs should hit more frequently for less damage for example.

I think that would make for more interesting design overall, help make sure super tanky and dodgy characters are both viable, without making EE strictly easier. That and they should make EE more like Weapon Shipment, Spinner of Shadows and the Harbinger of Madness line. Where on EN/EH you don't see certain kinds of more dangerous monsters (beholders in Harbinger) and you see less overall spawns. But you run those on Elite and you get the full challenge. No punches pulled in the types of spawns, you get massive waves of monsters coming at you threatening to overwhelm you. They don't have to be able to 3-5 shot you, there's a billion of them, and you've got to figure out how to control or slay them before they do it to you. You've got to be aware that around this corner there's a certain kind of monster you need to focus on first. That's far more interesting than blink and you die.

Woden
May 6, 2006

DemonMage posted:



I'm not seeing much in the way of nerfs though?

PRR is capped at 100 for robes, it's not hard to blow past this if you build for it to some degree. With PRR scaling better and giving MRR there's even more reason to invest in it. It's better that there's a cap I suppose to mirror dodge but with no way to raise it other than dropping monk stance is a little rough, tanky monks will feel this most.

Heavy shields block evasion, don't get this one at all. They don't cap MDB so it seems unneeded. Looks like it's so they can give it a 2x modifier for MRR without a feat cost and not sure how I feel about that.

DemonMage posted:

That and they should make EE more like Weapon Shipment, Spinner of Shadows and the Harbinger of Madness line. Where on EN/EH you don't see certain kinds of more dangerous monsters (beholders in Harbinger) and you see less overall spawns. But you run those on Elite and you get the full challenge. No punches pulled in the types of spawns, you get massive waves of monsters coming at you threatening to overwhelm you.

That'd just make TWF shittier than it already is though. Lots of movement means you use the running animation which has crap range and really bad DPS, while some archer IPSs 10 dudes at once and the caster AoEs the other 20 before you even get to a monster. TR zergs are already pretty much like how you want EEs and they're dominated by builds with good AoEs, I wouldn't mind more quests like Weap Shipment but not every quest to be that way.

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
No every quest doesn't need to be the way, but they should focus on making players fight smarter and not just jacking things up so they take 10x longer to kill and can kill you in a few hits. It's boring and makes EE more of a slog than a challenge. Combine that with the increased experience and drop rates not being nearly high enough to justify the effort, let alone the extra time, and EE is just in a real bad place right now.

Woden
May 6, 2006
With a good group most EE quests don't take much longer than EH, did High Road, Outbreak, 3 Sshind house quests, Don't Drink the Water and that other fast Druids Deep quest all in about ~100 mins yesterday. The problem is only a few builds really dominate EE, that group I was in was 5 arcane casters and a monkarcher.

I like to solo though, and solo EE is a huge PITA. Usually just skip it and mindlessly zerg EH instead, more xp and comms per min and no thinking required. So I wouldn't mind some changes, mainly to do with dungeon scaling though. Scale it down further for smaller groups.

Woden
May 6, 2006
New update is tomorrow, so go buy 3bc now if you want it cheaper. Think it goes up by 100-200tp in price.

Also looks like they're giving up on capping PRR, MRR is still capped at 100/200 for robes/light though and for some reason they got rid of the dodge buff to heavy/med armours.

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
Coming in U22.2/23: Easy Epic/Iconic hearts.

quote:

While your character is at level cap, completing epic quests adds 2 Heart Seeds into the End Reward list for that quest. This only applies to quests where Commendations of Valor already show up, including Epic Quests, on Normal, Hard, or Elite, that aren't ransacked.

So assuming you don't want to use any of your CoVs on a heart, you need to run 21 CoV capable quests when capped out to earn a heart. Seems pretty reasonable, especially since you can be getting useful stuff or money drops while running those quests.

[Edit] Coming with 22.1 or will it be later?

quote:

Signs point to reply hazy, cannot predict now.

So sadly we'll prolly have to wait until U23, but it'll be nice when it hits. Also man we're up to 22 major updates since the game went F2P tomorrow. It's come a long way since then. And even hilariously more so than launch.

So loving glad Sagas will be back tomorrow. Will make 26-28 vastly more pleasant until we can get even more content there (which 3BC will help since they're level 25 I think).

DemonMage fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jun 11, 2014

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

DemonMage posted:

Coming in U22.2/23: Easy Epic/Iconic hearts.


So assuming you don't want to use any of your CoVs on a heart, you need to run 21 CoV capable quests when capped out to earn a heart. Seems pretty reasonable, especially since you can be getting useful stuff or money drops while running those quests.

[Edit] Coming with 22.1 or will it be later?


So sadly we'll prolly have to wait until U23, but it'll be nice when it hits. Also man we're up to 22 major updates since the game went F2P tomorrow. It's come a long way since then. And even hilariously more so than launch.

So loving glad Sagas will be back tomorrow. Will make 26-28 vastly more pleasant until we can get even more content there (which 3BC will help since they're level 25 I think).

YES. Man, this is a good week to have off work.


EDIT: So I never played it pre-launch, only when it went free to play as I genuinely hadn't heard of the game until it went F2P.

I remember joining in F2P the amount of stupid in the game like the gem things you had to get to increase levels. Come to think of it this game could use an update for tutorial island or the habour quests. They are not the best thing to get people in on this though they have upped the loot for all that stuff so at least theres something entertaining dropping now a days.

kingcom fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Jun 11, 2014

Woden
May 6, 2006
I hope it's been tracking saga progress since they've been down, using a bow of sinew until level 23 is horrible.

That heart seeds change sounds incredible, can't wait for that. Getting epic completionist is going to be so much easier now that even I might get there.

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

Woden posted:

I hope it's been tracking saga progress since they've been down, using a bow of sinew until level 23 is horrible.

That heart seeds change sounds incredible, can't wait for that. Getting epic completionist is going to be so much easier now that even I might get there.

Yea, being able to pop all your sagas so you walk out the gate almost level 23 was fantastic. I found with sagas down the best method to do it was to stagger all your levels with other party members so they can carry you through the first few levels of xp.

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...

Woden posted:

I hope it's been tracking saga progress since they've been down, using a bow of sinew until level 23 is horrible.

That heart seeds change sounds incredible, can't wait for that. Getting epic completionist is going to be so much easier now that even I might get there.

It's supposed to be tracking your Saga progress. Of course you know, Turbine. And we just TRed recently and doing a semi-gimmick run trying to avoid epicable quests so we can get the first time bonus on them... so no Sagas for us right away =-( Also probably not worth it in the long run, you have to avoid a lot of the more fun and rewarding quests.

Woden
May 6, 2006
Just eTRed yesterday but before TRing I needed a few comms and some XP so did WK, VoN3, BoB, Small Problem and harbour 1-3 to get there. Had a lovely list of quests to do after that TR.

Nita
Apr 27, 2008
I just donated a thousand astral shards to the guild. From what the airship vendor shows we need about ~900 more shards to get a typhoon. It looks like you don't get a discount for having the previous ship anymore.

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
Because you don't need to have a previous ship anymore. You just straight up buy the shard ship you can afford. Which unless someone(s) else is capable of donating a similar level of shards as you were, Typhoon is all we can maybe manage. I've only got about 250 shards, and most of that is going to the first tier of Grand Reliquary here in a moment when I log on =-(

Also +6 tomes are available in the store until the 26th.

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
Alright I finished setting up the preliminary airship amenities setup:
Ninja Assassin, Paradoxical Puzzle Box, Armory, Old Sully's Grog Cellar, Tactical Training Room, Chronoscope, Floating Rock Garden, Wild Grove, Crusader's Chapel, Arcane Sanctum, Trapsmith's Workshop, Archwizard, Sign of the Silver Flame, Shrine to the Devourer, Stormreaver Memorial Monument

Using Grand Reliquary and Collegium of the Twelve for larges now.

Good smalls we're missing: Forbidden Library (this was gonna be where Armory is but it's 195 loving shards), Cargo Bay (don't think it's worth losing a buff right now), Game Hunter (no room), Farshifter's Chambers (90 shards and we don't want to lose a buff, cargo hold has navi).

Cost me over a million plat to get that setup, so if you wanna donate to the guild fund or me directly I wouldn't complain =-p We're missing a bunch of guild buffs still if people wanna get them for swapping, just make sure to return it to the state it is now so it doesn't mess with people expecting stuff to be there when they Get All buffs.

Also Two (I assume) setup the Cargo Hold with a full set of old amenities for anyone who wants/needs 30 resists and 4% experience.

[Edit] Also buffs scale at 11 and 21. Stat buffs are always +2. Resists/spellpower/fort are 5/10/15. Saves/skills are 1/2/3. Training Room is 2/4/6 crit and Armory is 2/4/6 AC.

DemonMage fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jun 11, 2014

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Nita
Apr 27, 2008
That kind of sucks that you can't get a credit towards a new ship. If we're going to upgrade past the Typhoon we may as well save up 2m plat to get the Volant Alcazar pirate ship since it's the same exact design as the Daedalean Kraken, just 4 less hold rooms and 2 less state rooms. I'm surprised that turbine didn't design the AD pirate ships to look different. The pirate AD ships look like a half-assed version of the plat pirate ships, which is disappointing when they did such an amazing job on the earlier plat and AD airships.

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