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Sulecrist posted:Do you think the 7th Edition changes generally justify non combi-weapon kit for Marine Sergeants and the like? I've got a Veteran Marine Sergeant with a combi-flamer and power fist that I will probably never ever use because it's a 59 point 1W/2A/3+Sv model but goddamn if it isn't Space Marine as gently caress. I think in 7th he'll go from "detrimentally useless" to just "detrimentally expensive and very situational".
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May 27, 2014 04:49
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I've finally answered my longstanding question of what I'm ever going to do with all the space marine captains that keep piling up. Unfortunately I didn't quite have enough to fill 1850, so I had to add a few other HQ choices in the mix as well. This is a really brutal Unbound army list no question about it, but I'm not sure I want to run it because my opponent might think I'm too cheesy. What do you guys think? code:Texmo fucked around with this message at 05:02 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 04:57
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So it's a Paladin list with no shooting.
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May 27, 2014 05:02
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Sulecrist posted:Do you think the 7th Edition changes generally justify non combi-weapon kit for Marine Sergeants and the like? What changed in that regard?
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May 27, 2014 05:03
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Squifferific posted:I don't suppose anyone has any idea how Shadow in the Warp is supposed to work? Are we just going to have to wait for a FAQ? Near as I can tell, a -3 penalty to Leadership in the old Psychic rules is kind of (?) the same as requiring 5s instead of 4s on a test now. It still works, just not very well. Any psykers, Bro-hoods and psychic pilots are at -3 leadership in general, so it does nothing to stop psychic powers going off, it just makes 2/3 of the perils chart more likely to happen. Not in line with the established Tyranid fluff at all, but it wouldn't be the first time their own background material has been ignored in the rule-making process.
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May 27, 2014 05:45
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Bavius posted:So I hear alot about this daemon summoning daemon poo poo, but what about land raiders filled with bloodthirsters? I want to see the coolest combos (not necessarily the cheesiest) that battle brother transports allow now. Better still; Bloodcrushers 
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May 27, 2014 05:53
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HiveCommander posted:It still works, just not very well. Any psykers, Bro-hoods and psychic pilots are at -3 leadership in general, so it does nothing to stop psychic powers going off, it just makes 2/3 of the perils chart more likely to happen. Not in line with the established Tyranid fluff at all, but it wouldn't be the first time their own background material has been ignored in the rule-making process. Would love if they FAQd it that any doubles causes a Perils in Shadows :P But that might be wishlisting too much.
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May 27, 2014 05:53
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HiveCommander posted:Better still; Bloodcrushers Only "Infantry" (not including Jump/Jetpack) can get in transports unfortunately, I assume this still applies in 7e. Nothing would please me more than 5 Bikes flying out of a Land Raider Crusader but it's not allowed.
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May 27, 2014 06:05
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I'm just glad Striking Scorpions can fit into DE Raiders now. Can Battle Brothers start inside each other's transports though?
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May 27, 2014 06:08
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Rulebook Heavily posted:I'm just glad Striking Scorpions can fit into DE Raiders now. I don't think so. Not Dedicated Transports, anyhow.
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May 27, 2014 06:26
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Bavius posted:So I hear alot about this daemon summoning daemon poo poo, but what about land raiders filled with bloodthirsters? I want to see the coolest combos (not necessarily the cheesiest) that battle brother transports allow now. I think Flying Monstrous Creatures count as very bulky. I'm not sure but there is some other weird rule that makes it so that they can't do that.You can't start in Dedicated Transports but you can start a Space Marine squad in reserve in a Valkryie I think. Dark Eldar have to loan out their transports to Banshees , so they can charge people. Oh I was super happy about this So with Assault being reduced -2 for difficult terrain, my Necrons got a inadvertent super boost to being in terrain and a weapon they have. Tremor Stave and Seismic Crucible. If you are in difficult terrain the assaulting unit is going to get -2 + - D3 taken off their charge range. Plus can shoot a unit with a Tremorstave and they count as moving in difficult terrain so good luck with charging a dug in necron force. You have to really get in their face to charge them now. CCBs, Finally my Necron Overlord can issue challenges from his chariot and be locked in combat so he doesn't get the crap blasted out of him. Scarabs are Scoring. HA! The Walker is actually good now, it gets Hammer of wrath which is cool. Disco Inferno Royale court got a boost by becoming scoring. Overall Necrons got alot of really cool new rules that make them better now so I'm happy. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 06:36 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 06:29
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Sulecrist posted:Do you think the 7th Edition changes generally justify non combi-weapon kit for Marine Sergeants and the like? Generally speaking, no. Combiweapons and Meltabombs are still both useful, the melee options are still overpriced in the grand scheme of things. Space Marines just aren't a melee army; certainly there are armies that have more call for that sort of thing, but I don't think they're one of them.
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May 27, 2014 06:45
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Hollismason posted:I think Flying Monstrous Creatures count as very bulky. I'm not sure but there is some other weird rule that makes it so that they can't do that.You can't start in Dedicated Transports but you can start a Space Marine squad in reserve in a Valkryie I think. Dark Eldar have to loan out their transports to Banshees , so they can charge people. Scarabs aren't scoring as they have the swarm rule and swarms can't score, it's said in the section describing scoring units that things default to scoring unless there's a rule saying they can never score. Unless swarm rules have changed.
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May 27, 2014 06:58
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Rulebook Heavily posted:I'm just glad Striking Scorpions can fit into DE Raiders now. Sort of: 40K rules posted:Models can be deployed ‘inside’ buildings, fortifications, or Transport vehicles in their deployment zone, subject to their Transport Capacity. So you could add Battle Brother ICs to a unit in an Allied Dedicated Transport, attach a Terminator Captain to a Guard Veteran Squad in a Chimera, for instance. But you couldn't deploy a Marine Tac Squad into the Chimera pre-game or things like that. And of course that only matters for Dedicated Transports. Your Land Raider taken as a Heavy can start the game with whatever the gently caress it wants, even a Guard Conscript squad. The Emperor alone knows why you'd want to, but you could do it as well as any number of more useful versions.
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May 27, 2014 06:58
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Hollismason posted:I think Flying Monstrous Creatures count as very bulky. I'm not sure but there is some other weird rule that makes it so that they can't do that.You can't start in Dedicated Transports but you can start a Space Marine squad in reserve in a Valkryie I think. Dark Eldar have to loan out their transports to Banshees , so they can charge people. Why would Scarabs be scoring? Does Swarms not exist anymore? The stupid local GW store didn't receive my rulebook shipment when I went there on Saturday so I'm stuck here like a non-7e having peasant until like Wednesday.
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May 27, 2014 06:59
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Pacheeco posted:Why would Scarabs be scoring? Does Swarms not exist anymore? The stupid local GW store didn't receive my rulebook shipment when I went there on Saturday so I'm stuck here like a non-7e having peasant until like Wednesday. Swarms can score now. Everything can score now. Park a Basilisk on that Objective that you hid behind the hill and rack in the points at the end of the game. The only thing that can override that is that your Troops in a "Battle-Forged" (ie not Unbound) get the Objective Secured rule (formerly owned exclusively by Tyrannid Gargoyles) and get priority over non-Battle Forged Troops if multiple units are within 3" of an Objective.
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May 27, 2014 07:03
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Sephyr posted:Gah. Nothing cheaper points-wise? That's half an army by itself. drat Baneblades and their cost-benefit ratio. Eldar can take any of their super heavies, so the Lynx, Scorpion, Cobra, Revenant, Phantom, Vampire Raider and Vampire Hunter can all be Lords of War. Not exactly sure what DE can bring, though I would assume the Tantalus is on the list, and the Revenant is despite it not being fluffy. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 07:11 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 07:08
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jng2058 posted:Swarms can score now. Everything can score now. Park a Basilisk on that Objective that you hid behind the hill and rack in the points at the end of the game. The only thing that can override that is that your Troops in a "Battle-Forged" (ie not Unbound) get the Objective Secured rule (formerly owned exclusively by Tyrannid Gargoyles) and get priority over non-Battle Forged Troops if multiple units are within 3" of an Objective. Swarms, specifically, may be able to score now, but a lot of those units have special rules that deny them that ability.
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May 27, 2014 07:17
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So does the new smash attack rule mean you also forgo your bonus attacks for charging of for having additional CC weapons. The 6th version said you halved your attack characteristic but the wording of 7th version says you can make a single smash attack and I spose it is somewhat ambiguous.
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May 27, 2014 07:19
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jng2058 posted:Swarms can score now. Everything can score now. Park a Basilisk on that Objective that you hid behind the hill and rack in the points at the end of the game. The only thing that can override that is that your Troops in a "Battle-Forged" (ie not Unbound) get the Objective Secured rule (formerly owned exclusively by Tyrannid Gargoyles) and get priority over non-Battle Forged Troops if multiple units are within 3" of an Objective. Im suddenly really really sad they took out the Parasite of Mortrex. With the challenge changes I'm fairly certain he would have been hilarious.
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May 27, 2014 07:20
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Cataphract posted:So does the new smash attack rule mean you also forgo your bonus attacks for charging of for having additional CC weapons. It sounds like Captain Sicarius' coup de grace attack; where you substitute your normal attacks for a single strike. It's a really, really stupid nerf and it makes life that much harder for Tyranids who now have an even harder time trying to crack open vehicles with the smash, flight-mode switching and vector strike nerfs, and in an edition where people can have 7 Land Raiders in 1850 points, it's not looking good. I don't mind the idea of having multiple Combined Arms detachments to have an army that is mostly heavy support etc. It's a nice throwback to old Chaos Iron Warriors lists which is pretty cool. Lords of War in normal games is stupid though, and Imperial Knights should get the IA treatment.
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May 27, 2014 07:31
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Safety Factor posted:Swarms, specifically, may be able to score now, but a lot of those units have special rules that deny them that ability. Actually I can't think of any Swarms that aren't scoring anymore- and Nurglings and Rippers both can get Objective Secured. Death Company, DC Dreads, and Tau drone-only units are the only things that jump to mind as units that are specifically not scoring. Cataphract posted:So does the new smash attack rule mean you also forgo your bonus attacks for charging of for having additional CC weapons. This is correct- you give up ALL your attacks for a single Smash Attack. The only thing that wouldn't be replaced is special in-addition-to-your-normal attacks, such as Stomp or the like.
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May 27, 2014 07:47
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HiveCommander posted:It sounds like Captain Sicarius' coup de grace attack; where you substitute your normal attacks for a single strike. It's a really, really stupid nerf and it makes life that much harder for Tyranids who now have an even harder time trying to crack open vehicles with the smash, flight-mode switching and vector strike nerfs, and in an edition where people can have 7 Land Raiders in 1850 points, it's not looking good. Ultimately I think it's just going to become more important to have that chat with your opponent pre game and decide how you want to play. How many detachments you'll agree on and what kind of detachments.
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May 27, 2014 08:33
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I just wish they could have given us one single example of even an experimental detachment that would have made this design worth the iteration, but no they goddamn don't. It's so full of hope and promise, but literally nothing else of substance, kinda like the last two years of allies.
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May 27, 2014 08:41
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Fix posted:I just wish they could have given us one single example of even an experimental detachment that would have made this design worth the iteration, but no they goddamn don't. It's so full of hope and promise, but literally nothing else of substance, kinda like the last two years of allies. Well inquisition and knight detachments are different. And I presume that formations are kind of detachments as well sort of maybe. I kinda see this as them laying the groundwork for different force org charts that will each yield different bonuses to the models included within them... I don't know how well it's going to come out in practice. But, hey, we can always hold out that there'll be a detachment that'll let genestealers assault from reserve I guess.
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May 27, 2014 08:51
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That's the thing, that promise has been there since they began this ally business, but they haven't followed through with it at all. It's just been poo poo theory-ing around the actual rules and they don't actually do anything to make it intriguing. Pull the loving trigger already. e: Knights are a lovely example, they feel so tacked on. Fix fucked around with this message at 08:59 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 08:54
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FWIW the book says there will be new FOCs in codexes and such.
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May 27, 2014 09:38
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Is it me or is dakka obsessed with SoB? I can't look at a thread there without a cadre of super spergs coming in and spending pages chatting about some almost completely irrelevant army.
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May 27, 2014 09:39
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There's getting to be less and less of a delay between the time when I think, "Oh man, that could be a cool idea!" and when I realize, "Oh, right, Games Workshop.  "e: referring to options for alternate FOCs
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May 27, 2014 09:41
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When I saw the previews for Combined Arms and Allied detachments, I did think that there would be a wider selection of other detachment types. Something like an all-Elite FOC with Objective Secured, or a 'strike force' FOC with extra Fast Attack but no HS / Lords of War / Fortifications. Perhaps it would have taken the spotlight off Unbound, but it would have been a nice and slightly fluffier way of building armies around a theme.
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May 27, 2014 09:44
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xtothez posted:When I saw the previews for Combined Arms and Allied detachments, I did think that there would be a wider selection of other detachment types. Something like an all-Elite FOC with Objective Secured, or a 'strike force' FOC with extra Fast Attack but no HS / Lords of War / Fortifications. But it's not like the combined arms detachment is all that restrictive to necessitate variant charts. Formations I kinda get. But if a detachment came out that had an extra elites slot and one less heavy it wouldn't really make a massive difference to the way I build armies. Cataphract fucked around with this message at 10:00 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 09:57
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Cataphract posted:But it's not like the combined arms detachment is all that restrictive to necessitate variant charts. Formations I kinda get. But if a detachment came out that had an extra elites slot and one less heavy it wouldn't really make a massive difference to the way I build armies. I was thinking something like this: quote:Strike Force That would open up all sorts of thematic armies, and even give a purpose to some sub-par units (super-scoring Shrikes!). It would basically be a design-your-own-formation tool. I'm surprised GW didn't consider it to help shift some idle stock. It's not like they care about the balance side of it.
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May 27, 2014 10:19
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xtothez posted:That would open up all sorts of thematic armies, and even give a purpose to some sub-par units (super-scoring Shrikes!). It would basically be a design-your-own-formation tool. I'm surprised GW didn't consider it to help shift some idle stock. It's not like they care about the balance side of it. This is what I was expecting to see in the main book from the wording in the Combined Arms detachment. Having new ones in extra books makes sense, but is a little disappointing. thiswayliesmadness posted:Can't say I'm really a fan of it either. The limbs are half decent and pretty orky in a stompa "we'll just randomly bolt this on here" kind of way. The main body looks like a fridge with legs or a rectangular R2-D2 on meth though. That's fair enough, but saying it's worse than the Lord of Skulls? Waaaay too far, even for hyperbole. VVV You can. but i'd imagine that the new FOC detachments will have varying bonuses, so you won't get the reroll warlord trait in favour of something more thematic for that FOC. Maybe a FA-based FOC would give all units Scout or whatever. Lungboy fucked around with this message at 11:46 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 11:35
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Lungboy posted:This is what I was expecting to see in the main book from the wording in the Combined Arms detachment. Having new ones in extra books makes sense, but is a little disappointing. You can kinda pull it off, you just need to pay the HQ+2 troops tax for each detachment, so you can have your mostly-FA, Elite or HS army. Or you could go with the new Tyranid go-to army list; 2 Hive Tyrants + 20 Termagaunts, repeat until out of points.
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May 27, 2014 11:40
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If anyone has seen the new Godzilla movie yet...reeeally makes me want to get that big 'Nid model from Forgeworld.
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May 27, 2014 11:54
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krushgroove posted:If anyone has seen the new Godzilla movie yet...reeeally makes me want to get that big 'Nid model from Forgeworld. I know right? Surprised the hell out of me, I did not see that coming.
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May 27, 2014 12:26
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I think I'm going to try consolidating my current models into Formations to benefit as much as I can from extra rules and see where that gets me. Phyresis has pointed out that apparently Gliding models get a Jink save now (!) so either a 4+ bare or 2+ Shrouded cover save on the approach is pretty solid. It's slower than Swooping, but will allow for stronger Synapse support and there's no way to fall on my rear end this way. HQ: Hive Tyrant 165pts (245pts) ++Adrenal Glands 15pts ++Twin-linked Devourer 15pts ++Twin-linked Devourer 15pts ++Winged 35pts Elite: 2x Venomthrope 90pts Zoanthrope 50pts Zoanthrope 50pts Troops: 10x Termagant 40pts 10x Termagant 40pts Skyblight Swarm 845pts Hive Tyrant 165pts (230pts) ++Twin-linked Devourer 15pts ++Twin-linked Devourer 15pts ++Winged 35pts 10x Gargoyle 60pts 10x Gargoyle 60pts 10x Gargoyle 60pts Hive Crone 155pts Harpy 135pts (140pts) ++Twin-linked Heavy Venom Cannon 5pts Harpy 135pts (140pts) ++Twin-linked Heavy Venom Cannon 5pts Living Artillery 390pts 3x Tyranid Warrior 90pts (100pts) ++Barbed Strangler 10pts Exocrine 170pts 3x Biovore 120pts Total Points: 1750pts Total Models: 66 Total Warp Charge: 8+1d6 PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 15:41 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 15:38
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ghetto wormhole posted:What changed in that regard? I was mainly thinking of Challenge overkill, but I don't have the book yet.
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May 27, 2014 16:02
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jng2058 posted:Swarms can score now. Everything can score now. Park a Basilisk on that Objective that you hid behind the hill and rack in the points at the end of the game. The only thing that can override that is that your Troops in a "Battle-Forged" (ie not Unbound) get the Objective Secured rule (formerly owned exclusively by Tyrannid Gargoyles) and get priority over non-Battle Forged Troops if multiple units are within 3" of an Objective. Unless it specifically states it is NEVER scoring. (Not sure if scarabs say this or not). But for example - Death Company say that I believe. So they are still not scoring.
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May 27, 2014 16:21
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Ghost Hand posted:Unless it specifically states it is NEVER scoring. (Not sure if scarabs say this or not). It used to be a function of the Swarms special rule, which is now gone. Troop Swarms are actually an okay choice now. I might toss in a couple Nurgling bases into my lists to hold in Reserve for last-minute grabs for objectives. But not Ripper Swarms. ....never Ripper Swarms. 
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May 27, 2014 16:25
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