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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Garak worked because he has endless layers. Just by finding out something about him, more questions tend to be raised. Consider finding out Dukat knows him personally, and they loathe one another. No explanation at first, they just exchange disgusted stares, and this kind of explains why Garak was left behind and can never go home; a highly-ranked military officer in this very militaristic culture just does not like him, and that could be well enough on its own. But that's not all there is to the story, and they sure as poo poo don't feed you all of it in one go, so you get to sit there between appearances wondering just what the gently caress is up with Garak. Is he even really a spy, or just messing with people so no one messes with him? I was watching Archer the other day and thought of Garak. Sterling did something foolish, such as he does, and Lana gave him poo poo about how being a spy is more about being unobtrusive than shooting everyone you see. This is same complaint somer people (not me) had of the recent Bond films. Garak could teach young Bond and Sterling Archer a thing or ten about being a Oh, and I just watched "Threshold." It had been built up (down?) so much that I was kind of anesthetized to it by the time I watched it. Thank you, goons. Although it was still a Tom Paris episode, so it would have been a steaming pile of poo poo with or without the breathtakingly bad understanding of evolution. So, yep. Onward!
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May 26, 2014 12:38
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The question is whether Threshold or Genesis has a more embarrassingly stupid idea of how evolution works. It'd be one thing if it was a vampire show or Here Comes Honey Boo Boo or something, but this is supposed to be sci-fi, jesus christ.
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May 26, 2014 13:33
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Garak is great because he's the number one example of one of the main things that sets DS9 apart from the rest of Trek - the enormous cast. Beyond the main ensemble that appear in the intro credits, you've got Garak, Rom, Nog, Dukat, Damar, Martok, Kai Winn, Leeta, Morn, etc, who all appear in the vast majority of episodes. In TNG you might have Barclay make an appearance once a season or so but for the most part it was just the main crew and hapless red shirts.
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May 26, 2014 13:33
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Data Graham posted:The question is whether Threshold or Genesis has a more embarrassingly stupid idea of how evolution works. It is sci-fi. It's fictitious science.
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May 26, 2014 13:39
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Star Trek would be really really boring, and also very confusing, if they had to adhere to science fact.
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May 26, 2014 13:44
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I prefer my scifi writers give the sciencey part the old college try before sprinkling in a human story to make it relatable, making it science fiction rather than fiction science.
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May 26, 2014 13:45
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The real problem with Threshold is that what is depicted isn't evolution at all, it's a totally bizarre form of mutation and if they'd just said that traveling at warp 10 [i.e. warp infinity] causes poo poo to get weird, it would have been fine. Well, not fine, it would still have been a terrible episode, but, you know.
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May 26, 2014 17:28
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It's Voyager, dude. The show later has Janeway step into the holodeck and say, like "display a parasaurophalus and extrapolate 65 million years of evolution" and surprise! It spits out the same alien species they've been running into that episode.
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May 26, 2014 17:36
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:It's Voyager, dude. The show later has Janeway step into the holodeck and say, like "display a parasaurophalus and extrapolate 65 million years of evolution" and surprise! It spits out the same alien species they've been running into that episode. I kind of wish that Voyager had become self-aware and just gone all the way with its nonsense. Like if Janeway had said "Fascinating. Now, computer, make a parasaurolophus that is capable of riding a giant skateboard and also serving as a mount for two" and then given it the Doctor's mobile emitter, put her It would have made about as much sense as the rest of Voyager, but at least it would have been more fun.
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May 26, 2014 17:44
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armoredgorilla posted:Please don't troll I'm not trolling, I just got done watching all the DS9 I skipped over previously and ultimately did not like it half as much as any other Trek, and I'm kinda annoyed at myself for wasting my time.
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May 26, 2014 18:12
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Data Graham posted:The question is whether Threshold or Genesis has a more embarrassingly stupid idea of how evolution works. Whoa now, I'll have you know that I come from a long, proud line of spider people.
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May 26, 2014 20:04
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Someone's never played Ocarina of Time.
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May 26, 2014 20:06
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MisterBibs posted:I'm kinda annoyed at myself for wasting my time. Having, over the past year or so, watched through all of TOS, TAS, TNG, the non JJ movies, DS9, Voyager, and so far one and a half seasons of Enterprise, despite a great many good episodes, this quote should really be the thread title.
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May 26, 2014 20:30
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Apollodorus posted:The real problem with Threshold is that what is depicted isn't evolution at all, it's a totally bizarre form of mutation and if they'd just said that traveling at warp 10 [i.e. warp infinity] causes poo poo to get weird, it would have been fine. Well, not fine, it would still have been a terrible episode, but, you know. Blade_of_tyshalle posted:It's Voyager, dude. The show later has Janeway step into the holodeck and say, like "display a parasaurophalus and extrapolate 65 million years of evolution" and surprise! It spits out the same alien species they've been running into that episode. Yeaah, I don't really understand how humans, even at Warp 10, could "evolve" into a weird squirmy thing. The human genome doesn't have a pre-set course to follow, starting with single-celled organisms moving right along towards primates, then ugly salamanders, and finally energy beings. Where were the billions of generations under selective pressure that resulted in these "evolved" forms? And what the hell happened to make tool-using humans on spaceships better off as wet lizards laying eggs in a swamp?
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May 26, 2014 21:54
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It's kind of like how anbo-jytusu is the ultimate evolution of martial arts.
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May 26, 2014 22:33
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Fister Roboto posted:It's kind of like how anbo-jytusu is the ultimate evolution of martial arts. Are you saying that some kung fu master or something managed to throw punch that exceeded warp 10 and thus all martial arts devolved into American Gladiators?
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May 26, 2014 23:07
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Mr Wikstroem posted:Are you saying that some kung fu master or something managed to throw punch that exceeded warp 10 and thus all martial arts devolved into American Gladiators? 
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May 26, 2014 23:18
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Someone should piece together "the theory of evolution according to Star Trek" it would be great. Spiders and monkeys and lizards (and Dinosaurs) all evolved into humanoid shapes which will eventually evolve into salamanders. I guess that pretty much sums it up...
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May 27, 2014 03:33
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Starships increasingly become mazes of Jefferies tubes and humans adapt to fit this environment, leading to the Hamster-People, which eventually leads to flooding the tubes with water to store the water there instead of in special tanks for water, which causes the Hamster-Men to become Salamanders obviously geez do I have to think of everything Wishing I had a Dale Gribble instead of a Cotton Hill because that sounds like something Dale would say
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May 27, 2014 03:43
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I killed fitty borgs!
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May 27, 2014 04:13
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Dangit, Barclay!
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May 27, 2014 04:22
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Threshold makes a lot more sense if you assume "Warp Ten" is the same as the Infinite Improbability Drive from the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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May 27, 2014 04:32
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I can never take Worf seriously when he fights as he always just slaps dudes with an open hand and he always looks like a giant pussy when he does it. Worf is always going on about how he is an honorable warrior but I can't remember the last time he actually punched a dude instead of getting in slapfights like a wimpy nerd. Now Captain Kirk, that guy is a fighter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pighpPCNPU Now if Worf did pro wresting moves and double fisted punches then yeah, we might have actually believed he was a badass.
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May 27, 2014 04:41
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Gammatron 64 posted:I can never take Worf seriously when he fights as he always just slaps dudes with an open hand and he always looks like a giant pussy when he does it. Worf is always going on about how he is an honorable warrior but I can't remember the last time he actually punched a dude instead of getting in slapfights like a wimpy nerd. Have you seen DS9? Worf was snapping necks and it owned.
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May 27, 2014 04:42
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DoctorWhat posted:Have you seen DS9? Worf was snapping necks and it owned. Yeah I love DS9. I just temporarily forgot about Worf snapping Weyoun's neck. Okay, that was awesome. I was just watching Birthright in Season 6 of TNG and just remarked how lame Worf looks when he slaps people with his palm.
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May 27, 2014 04:44
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Is that part of Anbo Jyutsu? TNG combat seems like it was choreographed by a teenage girl.
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May 27, 2014 04:47
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Cojawfee posted:Is that part of Anbo Jyutsu? TNG combat seems like it was choreographed by a teenage girl. Combat in TV/films has always looked bad because a lot of writers are nerds and have never gotten into real fights. Real fights are awful huggy messes and after a minute of fighting people usually look near death due to exhaustion if neither person has gotten knocked out yet.
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May 27, 2014 04:56
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1st AD posted:Combat in TV/films has always looked bad because a lot of writers are nerds and have never gotten into real fights. But actually that second thing is what looks bad whereas the choreographed dance fighting that permeates throughout most fiction (and is created by fight choreographers and not writers) makes better viewing. This is to say nothing about Worf-slaps, which I'm not sure why they do periodically throughout TNG.
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May 27, 2014 05:04
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1st AD posted:Combat in TV/films has always looked bad because a lot of writers are nerds and have never gotten into real fights. Writers don't type out every single move a character in a film does. That's all on the crew.
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May 27, 2014 05:05
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Yeah, fighting on TV is never realistic, but TNG has like the lamest fight choreography out of any show ever. Kirk's fighting moves are goofy as gently caress, but at least they're hilarious. People in TNG all look like they're the biggest wimps in the entire universe. Like Jesus Worf, can't you make a drat fist? Are you afraid you're going to break a nail? Plus there's the fact that the writers keep making people beat up Worf to show that said character is really tough, but in reality this just makes Worf look like the weakest jobber in history.
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May 27, 2014 05:06
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, fighting on TV is never realistic, but TNG has like the lamest fight choreography out of any show ever.
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May 27, 2014 05:58
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, fighting on TV is never realistic, but TNG has like the lamest fight choreography out of any show ever. riker-kickboxes-with-an-admiral.gif
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May 27, 2014 06:21
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You ever actually punch someone in the head? It really hurts.
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May 27, 2014 06:31
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Nessus posted:Could this have been some artifact of TV censorship or whatever? I recall that on like, Superfriends, you couldn't punch a guy, and TNG was this big fancy prestige show. Grappling and wrestling were apparently always OK though. There wasn't exactly censorship back then, but there were parent's groups that would get on your rear end for too much violence. I remember a story where an episode of Brisco County Junior got written up for "over a hundred uses of violence." Of course that particular episode was about a boxing match and they counted each and every punch as a separate act of violence... So yeah, you had to watch it, because those groups could influence advertisers which in turn could hurt your chances of getting piced up from year to year, especially for a syndicated show like TNG where you were picked up or not by individual stations rather than large networks. Those local stations tended to be more sensitive to boycotts, or the threat of boycotts. Obviously those kinds of things faded over time. I'd love to see how those '80s-'90s groups would poo poo themselves over Game of Thrones, for instance. Which isn't to say that such groups don't still exist, even in 2014, just that they haven't nearly as much influence as the did 20-30 years ago.
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May 27, 2014 06:37
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My guess would be that the producers urged directors and choreographers to try and make fighting look 'futuristic' or 'exotic', while probably not having enough time usually to re-do or even re-shoot if their ideas didn't pan out well.
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May 27, 2014 06:56
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~In the future~ civilized people have moved beyond animalistic brawls and punching, they utilize controlled and accurate motions to disable an attacker with the minimum of harm 
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May 27, 2014 07:02
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Sash! posted:You ever actually punch someone in the head? It really hurts. Also you could die or at the least suffer brain damage if you get knocked out from a blow to the head but that happens all the time in TV and movies.
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May 27, 2014 07:29
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Apple Jax posted:I posted about this project I was working on about a year ago here, but my small studio just launched a kickstarter for it today and I'm gonna shamelessly post it: Take all of my quatloos.
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May 27, 2014 07:58
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hailthefish posted:~In the future~ civilized people have moved beyond animalistic brawls and punching, they utilize controlled and accurate motions to disable an attacker with the minimum of harm If you mention Gun Kata I will slug you.
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May 27, 2014 11:00
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Gammatron 64 posted:Plus there's the fact that the writers keep making people beat up Worf to show that said character is really tough, but in reality this just makes Worf look like the weakest jobber in history. I love when this happens, though. A show I was watching last year, the main character had four elemental-themed forms, and Land Style was supposed to be the tankiest of the bunch. So of course, like Worf, you only ever saw Land when they needed to impress just how outrageously powerful the new bad guy was, completely undermining everything 
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May 27, 2014 12:12
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