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OssiansFolly posted:How can they even enforce that? Just take your cards and go. They could ban you from the store, but why you'd want to go back is puzzling anyway. quote:Doing that is technically theft of tournament materials. Even if you officially drop from the tournament they could call the cops and good luck trying to explain the DCI floor rules to them.
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May 30, 2014 18:14
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Emerson Cod posted:Doing that is technically theft of tournament materials. Even if you officially drop from the tournament they could call the cops and good luck trying to explain the DCI floor rules to them. No it isn't; after Modern Masters judges went to great lengths to clarify that if you walk away with your packs at any point, it is NOT theft of materials, you're just dropped from the tournament. Also, rare drafting is totally different from rare re-drafting.
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May 30, 2014 18:19
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Emerson Cod posted:Doing that is technically theft of tournament materials. Even if you officially drop from the tournament they could call the cops and good luck trying to explain the DCI floor rules to them. I doubt that would even fly with the cops. I've opened a pack in a draft to find a Thoughtseize and a foil Elspeth...I kindly just told them that I am dropping and taking my last unopened pack with me. My store didn't mind and the guy that is there said he'd do the same thing. I guess each store is different, but why chase away potential customers? There is a store locally here that the owner plays in the tournaments all the time...if he wins he just keeps the prize pool which is just BS.
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May 30, 2014 18:21
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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:No it isn't; after Modern Masters judges went to great lengths to clarify that if you walk away with your packs at any point, it is NOT theft of materials, you're just dropped from the tournament. Sounds more a change of policy because it was easier than dealing with that poo poo at GP Vegas when someone inevitably got a multi-Goyf pool.
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May 30, 2014 18:25
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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:No it isn't; after Modern Masters judges went to great lengths to clarify that if you walk away with your packs at any point, it is NOT theft of materials, you're just dropped from the tournament. e: It's funny that it's always the guys who didn't open the cool cards that are always whining about the policies. Oh boy, they sure missed out on the possibility of being passed 3 goyfs because their bad pool had none. They surely wouldn't do the same thing in that situation! Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 18:32 on May 30, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 18:27
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The packs you buy are your own and you can take them any time you want. If the money you spent on the event wasn't for your packs, but just a buy-in, I think that would be considered gambling.
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May 30, 2014 18:29
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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:No it isn't; after Modern Masters judges went to great lengths to clarify that if you walk away with your packs at any point, it is NOT theft of materials, you're just dropped from the tournament. Huh, that's interesting. I'm glad that Wizards put something out specific on that, all the judges I had asked considered it a bit of a grey area and leaned on it being at the discretion of the store.
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May 30, 2014 18:31
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BaronVonVaderham posted:Sounds more a change of policy because it was easier than dealing with that poo poo at GP Vegas when someone inevitably got a multi-Goyf pool. No, that's been the policy for quite some time now; it just wasn't clear and TOs could creatively misinterpret "theft of tournament materials." Toby Elliott addressed it last July when the wording was updated: quote:We also fixed up the language about when you can drop from a tournament and that it’s OK from the DCI’s perspective to walk away from sealed or draft with the product you’re currently (legally) holding. It’s not a policy change; it’s been that way for about 5 years now, but there’s never been any real need to make it clearer since it never came up. Then Modern Masters got released and suddenly a lot of people cared. Since we were making a small change to drop policy anyway – you no longer get a first round match loss, you just don’t get Planeswalker participation points for that event – we took the opportunity to clean it all up.
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May 30, 2014 18:41
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Chill la Chill posted:That still doesn't stop more ignorant power-tripping owners or clerks from saber rattling their store ban war cries. And some of these guys are purportedly trying to earn their judge lvl 1 too. Actually what happens is that if you open a pool for sealed at a GP what you usually do is register that pool and someone else gets it to play with the rest of the day and then they keep it. Now that you can drop what you can do is open a pool and drop with that pool and take cards that happen to be good in limited AND expensive like Elspeth out of the pool. But I mean sure you can make it be a thing about value.
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May 30, 2014 18:44
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Zoness posted:Actually what happens is that if you open a pool for sealed at a GP what you usually do is register that pool and someone else gets it to play with the rest of the day and then they keep it.
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May 30, 2014 18:48
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tzirean posted:No, that's been the policy for quite some time now; it just wasn't clear and TOs could creatively misinterpret "theft of tournament materials." Toby Elliott addressed it last July when the wording was updated: There's the unambiguous language that is needed. Chill la Chill posted:Right. I've been to GPs and PTQs before which is why I used such an example of passing the regged pool. Even in draft, dropping is the same as having an odd number of people in that draft in the first place. It's the exact same thing as people whining in black jack when you "took" their ace because you decided to hit. The last analogy is my favorite one for this issue: It's not technically against the rules, you can do what you want, it's just a lovely thing to do for everyone else at the table.
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May 30, 2014 18:48
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Emerson Cod posted:Regarding rare-redrafting, can we at least agree that it's shady as hell to have that be the standard and not inform players until after they've already paid for the tournament and not offer a refund if they're not interested in playing? My wife went to a release draft at a place in Pittsburgh and they told her that the only prize support would be a rare redraft at the end. At the release event. For a regular FNM at a store that doesn't get a lot of business, I understand that. But Prereleases and Releases are supposed to be where new players can come in and get some of the new cards. Where was this, out of curiosity? And where do you play normally? Also hi fellow (presumably) Pittsburgh goon.
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May 30, 2014 18:49
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Chill la Chill posted:Right. I've been to GPs and PTQs before which is why I used such an example of passing the regged pool. Even in draft, dropping is the same as having an odd number of people in that draft in the first place. It's the exact same thing as people whining in black jack when you "took" their ace because you decided to hit. It's actually not the same at all. It's more like if you got dealt an ace in Blackjack and had a choice whether you wanted to pass the ace to a random player or take an ace home and drop from the tournament altogether. Oh and of course the deck has like, an unknown number of aces and is seating 100 to 2000 people, but yeah. The more relevant issue is it alters the likeliness that cards that are already infrequently appearing in pools to show up in play - thus making paper sealed play drastically different from online sealed play. It also messes with card quality evaluations. If Thoughtseize only shows up like, never, because people take it and drop, how are you supposed to know how good a card Thoughtseize actually is? Sure, firsthand experience matters, but so does large tournament data. Zoness fucked around with this message at 18:55 on May 30, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 18:50
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Zoness posted:It's actually not the same at all. It's more like if you got dealt an ace in Blackjack and had a choice whether you wanted to pass the ace to a random player or take an ace home and drop from the tournament altogether. quote:Oh and of course the deck has like, an unknown number of aces and is seating 100 to 2000 people, but yeah. quote:The more relevant issue is it alters the likeliness that cards that are already infrequently appearing in pools to show up in play - thus making paper sealed play drastically different from online sealed play. It also messes with card quality evaluations. If Thoughtseize only shows up like, never, because people take it and drop, how are you supposed to know how good a card Thoughtseize actually is? Sure, firsthand experience matters, but so does large tournament data. There's also your red text. Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 19:28 on May 30, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 19:24
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Emerson Cod posted:Regarding rare-redrafting, can we at least agree that it's shady as hell to have that be the standard and not inform players until after they've already paid for the tournament and not offer a refund if they're not interested in playing? My wife went to a release draft at a place in Pittsburgh and they told her that the only prize support would be a rare redraft at the end. At the release event. For a regular FNM at a store that doesn't get a lot of business, I understand that. But Prereleases and Releases are supposed to be where new players can come in and get some of the new cards. If you or your wife are in the area again, check out Mr. Nice Guy Games. It's further out by Monroeville, but it's much bigger, it has actual tables and chairs, and they're a lot busier. They do multiple draft pods every Friday, starting at 5:30 and firing off whenever they get 8 people. They also provide prizes for the top two finishers. The downsides (which you might not care about) are that it's single elimination instead of swiss, and Magic dads bring their kids to draft, so sometimes you get knocked out in the first round by a 12 year old running 42 cards. Also, they don't provide lands - they'll sell you a pack of 80 lands for $2. The friendly environment and ability to go whenever make it no contest for me. They also have a Legacy tournament every Friday, if you're into that sort of thing. suicidesteve posted:Where was this, out of curiosity? And where do you play normally? Also hi fellow (presumably) Pittsburgh goon.
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May 30, 2014 19:32
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Calling WhataJudas to the thread: http://m.ebay.com/itm/181423032261?cmd=VIDESC
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May 30, 2014 19:33
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I'm scared to try out FNM in NYC because I feel like I'd get utterly steamrolled considering the high concentration of nerds here.
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May 30, 2014 19:34
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You could always just print out 2.10 of the tournament rulesquote:Players who drop during limited events own the cards that they correctly have in their possession at that time. This includes any unopened or partially drafted boosters. If it wasn't in there from the start, I want to know what situation arose where they needed to add in "correctly have" to the rules. *Scoops up all 24 packs as they're handed out* "Scorekeeper, I'd like to inform you by the means provided for this tournament that I am dropping  "
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May 30, 2014 19:35
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change my name posted:I'm scared to try out FNM in NYC because I feel like I'd get utterly steamrolled considering the high concentration of nerds here. It's fine. Montasy chapter 2 is good but small - everything in that city is small wth. I enjoy their weekly modern events but last I was there they were only starting out so I don't know what modern is like now. Half the nerds in that city probably go to board game nights because drat do they have a lot of those.
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May 30, 2014 19:37
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change my name posted:I'm scared to try out FNM in NYC because I feel like I'd get utterly steamrolled considering the high concentration of nerds here. I've done FNM at Montasy Comics (IIRC?) in Midtown, it wasn't bad. There are definitely strong players but they're all fairly sociable and agreeable - they play pretty strictly by the rules but won't go out of the way to like, jump on you for making a slight rules mistake at FNM level. The prize support isn't great and it can be cramped but it's a place in Midtown, so y'know. Chill la Chill posted:There's also your red text. This point is relevant to the discussion. Chill la Chill posted:Just factor in the likelihood of people dropping and go from there? How difficult is this? I assume large tournament data would include all the incidences of people dropping with aces vs. expected number of aces so I don't see what the problem is. That data doesn't exist because their pools were never registered.
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May 30, 2014 19:38
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BXCX posted:You could always just print out 2.10 of the tournament rules Be that guy who lets packs stack up behind him in a low-key store draft where they just put a line of packs waiting for you, then when there are like 6 of them, take them all and leave. Of course, at that point probably all the value cards have been raredrafted. Unless the store is doing rare redrafting 
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May 30, 2014 19:39
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My store makes all new attendees aware we rare redraft, and we also have 4-3-2-2 prize support for the draft as well. We regularly get 3 full pods, sometimes pushing 4 (which is a big ask in the size of store it is.)
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May 30, 2014 19:55
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An LGS I used to go to over ten years ago used to do rare redrafting for the prize pool for side drafts, but in that case, the owner was trying to drum up interest in drafts by having a $7.50 entry fee. It was also during Urza Block so I don't think anybody complained during those days.
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May 30, 2014 20:08
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Jonked posted:Hi Pitt Goon! Like I said above, I go to Mr. Nice Guy Games. They're not perfect, and it's way out in Monroeville, but I personally find it worth it. So we've probably seen each other at least. I'm actually going there tonight for Legacy. It's a 40 minute drive for me at this time of day, but it's by far the best place around. Plus it's still pretty much the closest. If you're there, say hi to the legacy - playing ginger who's in the 0/x bracket. Surprisingly enough, my name is Steve.
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May 30, 2014 20:09
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Not sure which store, we're actually from the northeast but living in Texas down in Galveston. She happened to be in town for a conference and didn't want to miss the release.
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May 30, 2014 20:11
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I'm going to the SCG open in Columbus, can anyone tell me what to expect?
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May 30, 2014 20:13
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homerlaw posted:I'm going to the SCG open in Columbus, can anyone tell me what to expect? Lots of unkempt and odorous nerds.
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May 30, 2014 20:21
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OssiansFolly posted:Lots of unkempt and odorous nerds. It's like HS wrestling. Don't let it get to you.
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May 30, 2014 20:39
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homerlaw posted:I'm going to the SCG open in Columbus, can anyone tell me what to expect? Not a lot of people, since the SCG Open is in Indianapolis this weekend  Assuming you're talking about the Invitational weekend in 3 weeks, expect a tougher crowd than normal because all the players that don't make the cut on Friday will likely play in the Open events. Also lots of Thoughtseize and grindy green.
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May 30, 2014 20:43
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homerlaw posted:I'm going to the SCG open in Columbus, can anyone tell me what to expect? Have you played Comp REL before? Make sure you pay attention to your (and your opponent's, if they're beneficial to you) triggers, clearly announce what you're responding to and when, and call a judge immediately if one of you accidentally fucks up. Guy lost on stream at last weekend's open in the quarterfinals because he drew 8 cards opening hand and didn't immediately say something. Also don't take it personally if your opponent doesn't let you take something back, or asks you to go a little faster, or doesn't let you get a trigger you just missed, even if that trigger was "Oops I let the spell resolve and I was supposed to announce the trigger on the spell being cast". Everyone's there to win, and even the nicest guys don't let things slide at a big tourney.
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May 30, 2014 20:46
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homerlaw posted:I'm going to the SCG open in Columbus, can anyone tell me what to expect? You will play against a lot of people who don't know the rules. Yes there will be people who know them to an extreme degree and will try to call you on everything (iirc one guy shuffled then set his deck down in the middle of the table after a mulligan, the opponent cut it and the guy called a judge saying his opponent touched his deck without his permission ban he please). But more often than not you'll face a lot of people who have no idea what they're doing. One of my opponents at GP Richmond thought checklands counted as the basic land types so he got really mad/confused when I said he couldn't play his second sunpetal grove untapped.
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May 30, 2014 20:52
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Anyone ever play at Asgard games in Houston? I'm going to Houston next week for work and might play modern there on Wed if I can swing it.
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May 30, 2014 20:54
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homerlaw posted:I'm going to the SCG open in Columbus, can anyone tell me what to expect? Best advice for big events like this: Bring snacks and drinks! You won't have time to find decent food nearby (sometimes I've been in locations where a nearby place is happy to deliver, but timing is awkward...beter to stay focused), and need to remain fed and hydrated; you won't get time for full meals, better to just have a granola bar or an apple after each round. It's a marathon, anything you can do to stay comfortable helps you play better. I've seen people carry those cushions you bring to a baseball/football stadium; sometimes the chairs are really nice and comfy (SCG Orlando two years ago was at a Disney resort, it was so nice), but usually it's lovely folding metal chairs, and your rear end will hurt after 10 hours. I've seen so many opponents make misplays while complaining about these things to me. Don't haul your whole trade stock, it will be ok at first but really suck 6 rounds in. What I do is make a single, smaller binder by taking good trade material out of my others...that way I can still get worthwhile trades (i.e. high value) between rounds, but not have to carry a ton of weight (and leaves room for more snacks!). You don't need a few hundred 50 cent cards for that. Otherwise, have fun with it. Don't be ashamed to drop and do a side event, if you have the cash, but if you don't want to do those, don't drop! The experience is valuable, and odds are later you'll get more wins at the bottom of the pairings so your day ends a little better than it began. I usually carpool, so I have nothing better to do if someone in the car is doing well, better to stay in and stay busy rather than letting the losses stew.
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May 30, 2014 20:58
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BaronVonVaderham posted:Don't haul your whole trade stock, it will be ok at first but really suck 6 rounds in. What I do is make a single, smaller binder by taking good trade material out of my others...that way I can still get worthwhile trades (i.e. high value) between rounds, but not have to carry a ton of weight (and leaves room for more snacks!). You don't need a few hundred 50 cent cards for that. Also, be very mindful of where your stuff is at all times and never leave anything unattended (which includes asking a rando to keep an eye on your stuff). Most big events I've been to have done a good job of making sure that your bag matches a wristband or something, but you'll likely be carrying around a lot of small but valuable cardboard treasures in a room full of people who know what they're worth and have access to immediate fences. Not that it's a rampant problem or anything, but better to be safe than sorry.
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May 30, 2014 21:24
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Emerson Cod posted:Doing that is technically theft of tournament materials. Even if you officially drop from the tournament they could call the cops and good luck trying to explain the DCI floor rules to them. Not once everything is drafted, it's not. edit Hey they changed the whole thing.
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May 30, 2014 21:56
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The funniest thing to happen to Magic in the last month is that Basara Tower Archer error in MTGO and, more specifically, the reaction the first time it pops up on any pro's CFB/MTGO/etc video recording of a draft. WHY THE HECK IS IT LIKE THAT?
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May 30, 2014 22:07
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Boco_T posted:The funniest thing to happen to Magic in the last month is that Basara Tower Archer error in MTGO and, more specifically, the reaction the first time it pops up on any pro's CFB/MTGO/etc video recording of a draft. WHY THE HECK IS IT LIKE THAT? What Bassara Tower archer error? Whats wrong with it on MTGO?
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May 30, 2014 22:10
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Pharohman777 posted:What Bassara Tower archer error? Whats wrong with it on MTGO? Boco_T posted:The funniest thing to happen to Magic in the last month is that Basara Tower Archer error in MTGO and, more specifically, the reaction the first time it pops up on any pro's CFB/MTGO/etc video recording of a draft. WHY THE HECK IS IT LIKE THAT? My best real guess is that the lady who does the photoshops for mothership articles got a request to do that to the card (maybe for some preview article about the new Oblivion Ring), and then when MTGO devs requested the art for integration, that was what they received. It is still dumb that everyone in the entire process sent that along, thinking 'yep, that looks okey-dokey!' but it is a reason, if not an excuse.
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May 30, 2014 22:10
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Pharohman777 posted:What Bassara Tower archer error? Whats wrong with it on MTGO? 
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May 30, 2014 22:12
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Everblight posted:My best real guess is that the lady who does the photoshops for mothership articles got a request to do that to the card (maybe for some preview article about the new Oblivion Ring), and then when MTGO devs requested the art for integration, that was what they received. It is still dumb that everyone in the entire process sent that along, thinking 'yep, that looks okey-dokey!' but it is a reason, if not an excuse. I am convinced they have no regression testing or review process for these things.
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May 30, 2014 22:14
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