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The time spans given for space-faring life to arise become a lot shorter when you account for the fact that even spreading to your whole local group may not be sufficient if a super nova happened to go off anywhere in a roughly 25-30 LY radius. The denser your stellar neighborhood, the more likely you are to find life and the easier it is to spread to another system but the more likely you are to be wiped out by a number of stellar phenomena, nevermind localized events which can easily nip a species in the bud. The dinosaurs never developed a fusion drive because they got wiped out by something relatively minor that happens on a fairly consistent basis even with a big gas giant shielding us. Complex life, nevermind civilizations, require a really delicate balance. Hell, if it weren't for Jupiter life may not have ever became multicellular if it even arose at all. Big cosmic explosions with lots of small planet-wrecking events in between may be all it takes to keep civs down or at least fairly contained up to this point in history.
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May 31, 2014 01:21
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or maybe it turns out that going into space in any major way is just way too much of a pain in the rear end and too expensive, and no culture ever has, or ever will, manage to be expansionist on that scale. everybody's as expansionist "as possible", but it turns out that ain't very much
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May 31, 2014 01:25
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or maybe intelligent life is really common but communication by vision and sound are not, so the universe is full of species frantically beaming smells at us in an attempt to communicate but we just have no idea
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May 31, 2014 01:28
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Trig Discipline posted:or maybe intelligent life is really common but communication by vision and sound are not, so the universe is full of species frantically beaming smells at us in an attempt to communicate but we just have no idea i imagine they'd still have to put the smells on some kind of electromagnetic carrier wave that we actually could detect, though
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May 31, 2014 01:32
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actually the possibility of life on other worlds is so astronomically unlikely as to essentially be impossible the number of factors that are necessary for complex life, let a lone intelligent life, to exist on a planet are innumerable and if any one of them are missing the possibility of complex life developing drops to about zero basically if the conditions in a solar system aren't precisely as they are in our solar system, down to the composition/size of the planets, their orbits, and position in the galaxy, then it's not happening we are alone in the universe
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May 31, 2014 01:34
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actually stymie (ugh) we have no loving clue how common or rare life is because we have a sample size of one. this is what we are discussing.
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May 31, 2014 01:36
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Stymie posted:actually the possibility of life on other worlds is so astronomically unlikely as to essentially be impossible something about a puddle being amazed that the hole it's in is perfectly shaped for itself
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May 31, 2014 01:37
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lets all engage with stymie
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May 31, 2014 01:38
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im sure it has interesting stuff to say today all those other days where it trolled were an aberration!!!
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May 31, 2014 01:38
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Stymie posted:actually the possibility of life on other worlds is so astronomically unlikely as to essentially be impossible we are quite literally discussing the astronomical odds of various astronomical events of course the odds are astronomical. those are the only odds under discussion!
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May 31, 2014 01:42
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theadder posted:lets all engage with stymie
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May 31, 2014 01:44
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Sagebrush posted:i imagine they'd still have to put the smells on some kind of electromagnetic carrier wave that we actually could detect, though ummm no i believe bohr proved that the only way to have smelt it is to have dealt it
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May 31, 2014 01:45
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Stymie posted:actually the possibility of life on other worlds is so astronomically unlikely as to essentially be impossible between this and your cosmos '14 mad-on i'm beginning to wonder if you're an actual creationist yosposter, not that it's impossible to be a creationist and a yosposter but that's a venn diagram that can't have much overlap Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 01:52 on May 31, 2014 |
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May 31, 2014 01:48
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if there aren't hole alien babes and dudes out there then whats the point of space
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May 31, 2014 01:49
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what if there are alien babes out there, the hottest babes ever, even hotter tan human babesm but they don't have any genitalia and just reproduce through parthenogenesis or something then what
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May 31, 2014 01:53
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Sagebrush posted:what if there are alien babes out there, the hottest babes ever, even hotter tan human babesm but they don't have any genitalia and just reproduce through parthenogenesis or something isnt this literally the asari
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May 31, 2014 01:55
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Sagebrush posted:what if there are alien babes out there, the hottest babes ever, even hotter tan human babesm but they don't have any genitalia and just reproduce through parthenogenesis or something they gotta have holes somewhere
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May 31, 2014 01:55
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vOv posted:isnt this literally the asari i thought the asari just got pregnant through the special mind meld dna transfer but still had babies the normal way. do they really have no hoo hah
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May 31, 2014 01:57
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Sagebrush posted:i thought the asari just got pregnant through the special mind meld dna transfer but still had babies the normal way. do they really have no hoo hah iirc they just use other species to scramble their dna, no physical contact or anything 
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May 31, 2014 02:02
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theadder posted:lets all engage with stymie i nearly did and then was like "FML" and delteted the post lmfao
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May 31, 2014 02:04
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Improbable Lobster posted:iirc they just use other species to scramble their dna, no physical contact or anything right but do they ever say where the fetus gestates? i assume they don't just keep it in a jar
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May 31, 2014 02:07
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coffeetable posted:it's not that we should be able to hear them, it's that they should be here, in this solar system, doing what life does, ie replicating until every available unit of resource has been consumed. if a single species has gone interstellar, the galaxy should be seething with them. unless they just went interstellar in the recent past, which among other things might include said interstellar travel being subject to navigation problems or simple high risk of death. or maybe successful insterstellar travel requires resource/energy usage that requires stockpiling at the origin planet for 100 years between launches, and the current civilizations out there simply haven't managed to iterate out to this area yet. like there's a ton of ways that time and resources and sheer search area ensures that there could be many cvilizations across a galaxy let alone the universe, and without practical time travel or significantly faster than light travel. there's currently 300 billion star systems to pick through in the milky way after all.
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May 31, 2014 02:13
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duTrieux. posted:something about a puddle being amazed that the hole it's in is perfectly shaped for itself yeah this we were created, intelligently, to be loving perfectly suited to our environment the not actually being perfect part was original sin
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May 31, 2014 02:29
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also the environment was created perfectly to suit us then the gays hosed that up
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May 31, 2014 02:30
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Shaggar posted:they gotta have holes somewhere 
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May 31, 2014 03:02
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Trig Discipline posted:or maybe intelligent life is really common but communication by vision and sound are not, so the universe is full of species frantically beaming smells at us in an attempt to communicate but we just have no idea Great, someone's beaming us space-farts.
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May 31, 2014 03:18
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i'm the dialog that sounds like it was written by an autistic robot
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May 31, 2014 03:21
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duTrieux. posted:i'm the dialog that sounds like it was written by an autistic robot welcome to the mass effect fandom
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May 31, 2014 03:25
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Sagebrush posted:actually stymie (ugh) we have no loving clue how common or rare life is because we have a sample size of one. this is what we are discussing. yes, but we can observe the functioning of our particular corner of the galaxy and come to an understanding about how various elements interact to enable life on this planet to exist for example, if our solar system did not have a gas giant the mass of jupiter in the same orbital plane, earth would be constantly bombarded by space debris but jupiter sweeps it out of our path if we did not have a single, massive satellite at its exact orbit the tides would be affected and would not allow for circulation of water and air currents, which are essential to the development of life if our sun was not the exact age and temperature that it is, the habitable zone would be off by many orders of magnitude and earth would either be a cinder or an ice ball it's an article of faith among most astrophysicists that intelligent life must exist elsewhere in the galaxy, but it is not borne out by the science sagan himself was not immune to falling into such magical thinking, as strong of an advocate for science as he was Stymie fucked around with this message at 03:35 on May 31, 2014 |
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May 31, 2014 03:31
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May 31, 2014 03:37
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hehe rape lol
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May 31, 2014 04:00
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theflyingexecutive posted:hehe rape lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIgFbqRngjA
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May 31, 2014 04:59
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:we are quite literally discussing the astronomical odds of various astronomical events the odds that stymie could ever write a post worth quoting and yet i see a lot of you r-tards quoting stymie
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May 31, 2014 05:16
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Star Trek will happen, and our decedents will be in Starfleet just like in the show. Please fund STEM education in or schools to make the glorious human-american future a reality... Sooner.
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May 31, 2014 06:05
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theflyingexecutive posted:hehe rape lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1agaZinJHg
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May 31, 2014 06:06
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you see, you need a gas giant to protect you from asteroids and comets, because every solar system is chock-a-block full of them it is simply not possible that our solar system is aberrant in any way
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May 31, 2014 07:43
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angry_keebler posted:you see, you need a gas giant to protect you from asteroids and comets, because every solar system is chock-a-block full of them
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May 31, 2014 07:47
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lord funk posted:nah, just some human-like aliens. i guess it must have been super commonplace at that point, but still, give them a wrinkly eyebrow at least honestly i think the bumpy forehead got overdone, especially when they did it to the romulans. i mean loving come on, the vulcans don't have bumpy foreheads, and they only split off like a few thousand years ago, so why do romulans have bumpy foreheads?! ughhhh also lol at how bolians are basically "hey how about some andorians?" "ehhhhh michael westmore says he doesn't 'do antennae' and we don't feel like finding white wigs, soooo... *shrug*" but i mean it doesn't bother me that a bunch of 'aliens' were basically just humans on another planet. it's not like a bumpy forehead or a ridged nose is a particularly meaningful distinction anyway.
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May 31, 2014 08:57
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my earlier post actually has me thinking about a story idea mid-22nd century, and humanity has been attacked by the transmissions of not one, but several different alien postorganic intelligences at the same time. the majority of the planet is busy trying to conquer the rest for their own particular attack vector or invasive conceptual framework, and there's a small number of holdouts who are immune to such things. the current idea is that the protagonist has genetic dyscalculia and so none of the alien mindviruses can even get a grip or her or her people, who by this point have their own weak AI to handle any math that needs to get done ("One of my most important memories is of my mother's machine trying to teach me how to multiply numbers. I was seven and it had been kept from me why they were so important. When I utterly failed to do so, it was cause for celebration, and I was given my real name and my own machine.") this is how spacefaring civilizations expand, it turns out. the only ones that are actually able to spread across multiple worlds are the postorganic ones, which use local biologicals to bootstrap themselves onto new planets via attack transmissions. eventually there might be actual spacecraft arriving from previously conquered worlds, but it's completely impractical to try to physically conquer a planet with an interstellar sub-light spacecraft that's taken thousands of years to get there (since even the most efficient reaction drives have limited fuel and therefore limited acceleration), so the worlds need to be seeded properly ahead of time. most of the civilizations don't even bother with ships, since these intelligences don't care about biological timeframes and most aren't picky about the local "hardware" they're running on earth happened to already be in the crosshairs of several competing civilizations (nice planet, sentient species without major physical defects, gas giants to disassemble) and multiple transmissions were decoded by human weak AI roughly simultaneously, leading to competition for "mindshare". only one of the attackers was interested in open, physical warfare because it was planning on sending ships to pick up the pieces, and that one was exterminated by a coalition of the others who all have different goals for the local biosphere but writing it in a way which is more interesting than a summary is always the hard part and i'm not sure there's actually a story here
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May 31, 2014 09:01
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what's needed to develop life is a place where organic chemistry can happen. so anywhere that's reasonably temperate and pressurized, has in influx of energy and can sit around cooking for a couple of million or billions of years. just enough to get a flow of information and energy going to kickstart decent with modification. abiogenesis is still a huge mystery, but it happened at least once on a common type of rocky planet orbiting a common type of star. my own guess to why we haven't seen signs of life elsewhere yet is that the distances are too great and FTL travel just isn't possible.
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May 31, 2014 09:01
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