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Entropic posted:Maybe it's just my local metagame, but Black Devotion doesn't feel oppressive right now at all. You'll definitely see a couple people playing it every tournament, but it's not even close to being "unbeatable". It's just been a solid Tier 1 deck for so long that people are getting bored of it, and with boredom comes hyperbole. This is the real issue, the fact that people get sick of solid Tier 1 decks. It's just that for some reason people are targeting as their bogeyman a descriptor ("mono-colored") that has actually spent very little time over the past 5 or 10 years being true of the dominant tier 1 deck, yet somehow it's what people are sick of?
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Jun 1, 2014 00:28
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People absolutely get tired of whatever archetype kicks around near the top, but the fact that devotion is a fairly linear mechanic means that the mono colored devotion decks in Standard haven't deviated a whole lot during their stay at the top. Sometimes the best decks don't adapt much but in this case it's at least felt more so than usual. If Grixis or Izzet or Dimir become the dominant control archetype people are going to change their opinion of wanting it to be good to hating it in pretty short order. JerryLee posted:This is the real issue, the fact that people get sick of solid Tier 1 decks. It's just that for some reason people are targeting as their bogeyman a descriptor ("mono-colored") that has actually spent very little time over the past 5 or 10 years being true of the dominant tier 1 deck, yet somehow it's what people are sick of? "Something hasn't been dominant for a literal decade what's the big deal?" can be applied to every single possible archetype over the history of Magic. Seeing the same stuff for six straight months is more than enough to get sick of it.
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Jun 1, 2014 00:28
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Mono-White is the funnest single-color Mutavault deck right now BTW. I just took down a GPT with the 8-anthem Brave Weenies version and it's super-fun if you like aggro. You can get in under all the durdly black devotion decks with no 1 drops.
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Jun 1, 2014 00:32
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Mono-B being viable sucks because now people won't freak out about every mildly good black card being the one that brings mono-B back.
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Jun 1, 2014 00:37
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Remember when Mutilate was reprinted in M13 and people were saying "Awesome! Maybe now Mono-Black control can be a thing again! That'd be so cool!"? I do.
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Jun 1, 2014 00:38
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My god I love UWr control in modern. Mull to 5 twice and still win. And my opponent gets salty because I got all 4 snapcasters 
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Jun 1, 2014 00:41
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forbidden lesbian posted:Doesn't that make 54% of decks multi-colored tho? Are we doing different definitions of dominating or something? You can't group in 3-colored with 2-colored decks. 3-colored decks require either incredible cards or an incredible mana base, and only esper/jund fit that criteria. Other than those two (14% of the metagame) most two-colored decks are actually "mono-black splash X" where x is either white (orzhov control) or green (golgari control). Every orzhov control listed is "mono black plus elspeth and blood baron", so if you'd like I can group that in to make it 55% mono-colored and 45% multi.
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Jun 1, 2014 00:43
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Entropic posted:Remember when Mutilate was reprinted in M13 and people were saying "Awesome! Maybe now Mono-Black control can be a thing again! That'd be so cool!"? I do. I've never understood why, either, the original MBC was a big dumb linear deck with all the subtle nuance of driving a golf cart after six or seven shots. What I'm trying to say is, bring back Wake.
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Jun 1, 2014 00:45
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Mono-B being viable sucks because now people won't freak out about every mildly good black card being the one that brings mono-B back. Yeah the change to "Fetches are being printed in the next set I absolutely guarantee it" hasn't been nearly as funny as people being positive that Damnation is going to be reprinted. RIP is MBC finally playable 
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Jun 1, 2014 00:47
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Mortimer posted:You can't group in 3-colored with 2-colored decks. 3-colored decks require either incredible cards or an incredible mana base, and only esper/jund fit that criteria. Other than those two (14% of the metagame) most two-colored decks are actually "mono-black splash X" where x is either white (orzhov control) or green (golgari control). You're making a pretty good case that black is completely nutty this Standard, but I still don't see where you're getting your "mono-coloured decks are too dominant  " kick from. Especially since the non-black monocoloured decks are apparently roughly as prevalent as three-colour "incredible cards/manabase" are.
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Jun 1, 2014 00:59
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Shavnir posted:My god I love UWr control in modern. Mull to 5 twice and still win. And my opponent gets salty because I got all 4 snapcasters I'm picking up the midrange version with Kiki-Jiki. Draw all four Snapcasters and copy one every turn 
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Jun 1, 2014 01:16
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Jabor posted:You're making a pretty good case that black is completely nutty this Standard, but I still don't see where you're getting your "mono-coloured decks are too dominant Mono-colored in general aren't too oppressive, but it's not an unreasonable leap from "Mono red dominates" (early on as it always does), to "Mono Blue dominates because it beats mono-R" to "Mono-Black dominates because it beats mono-blue (and everything else)". That's basically Thero's standard in a nutshell. GR monsters can be a footnote for almost beating mono-B
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Jun 1, 2014 01:17
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Turns out that a format with a super constricted card pool leads to a super constricted number of viable decks, who knew? 
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Jun 1, 2014 01:30
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Lottery of Babylon posted:I remember MaRo saying that 4 years specifically is the "correct" time between multicolor blocks, because apparently people didn't like Alara because it came only three years after Ravnica or something? (For some reason he wasn't counting Shadowmoor as a multicolor block, so I guess multicolor specifically means "gold" here?) I think the 2016-2017 block will almost certainly be wedge-based, but not Khans of Tarkir. Shadowmoor was a mono-color block, not multi-color. MaRo has said, though, that Shadowmoor block looking like a multi-color block was part of the problem regarding Alara block coming so close to another multi-color block. The reason I say that Shadowmoor is a mono-color block is that hybrid lets you play less colors, rather than forcing you to play more, like gold cards. For instance, mono-red decks at the time played both Ashenmoor Gouger and Figure of Destiny. Of course, 5CC didn't help that impression, being one of the best decks at the time, and having insane mana due to the Vivid land (technically, not Shadowmoor block cards) + Reflecting Pool interaction, and filter lands. Lorwyn-Shadowmoor-Alara was, by the way, the best standard  .
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Jun 1, 2014 01:52
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Playing standard, when I'm up against UW control or the like (already a tough matchup for me) I tend to feel rushed into misplays because first games always seem to take 15-20 minutes and I worry afterward about match time in general. That being said, I've never actually gone to time in a game. Can anyone explain to me just how it works? because I swear I've heard different things from different players. Should I scoop the first game early-ish if it's taking long and I only have an outside shot at a comeback in that one? Or is going to time generally a concern for the control player themselves as well? I'd be interested to know if anybody has advice on this scenario, since I haven't been playing standard long at all and I haven't really spent time playing super-serious control myself
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Jun 1, 2014 01:56
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gorgeous west posted:Playing standard, when I'm up against UW control or the like (already a tough matchup for me) I tend to feel rushed into misplays because first games always seem to take 15-20 minutes and I worry afterward about match time in general. If you're playing at FNMs and haven't been playing that long, don't make your head spin by worrying about scoop strategies, just concede games that you're sure to lose.
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Jun 1, 2014 02:03
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It depends what kind of deck you're playing. You can definitely reach a point, if you're playing a certain sort of aggro deck versus a control deck, where you basically know that they have a lock on the game. They might not be able to actually kill you for five or six turns, but they can stop you from doing anything to actually threaten them. You have to know what your outs are. Know your own decklist and think, "what would I have to draw the next couple turns to turn this around and win the game?" If you're deep in game 2, having won game 1, and you know you have no outs, it definitely makes sense to scoop and try to win game 3.
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Jun 1, 2014 02:06
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gorgeous west posted:Playing standard, when I'm up against UW control or the like (already a tough matchup for me) I tend to feel rushed into misplays because first games always seem to take 15-20 minutes and I worry afterward about match time in general. I personally don't concede until I know I can not win. I think of it like baseball, the pitcher is forced into throwing in the strikezone more if he has a couple of balls on him, vs. being up a strike he can work the edges more and try to draw out a swinging strike. When you are down a game, then the pressure is on. I suppose if your deck gets overwhelmingly better post board then maybe you snap concede but otherwise play if you think you have an out, even if it is just that one last top deck, draw your card then make your decision.
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Jun 1, 2014 02:06
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Entropic posted:Remember when Mutilate was reprinted in M13 and people were saying "Awesome! Maybe now Mono-Black control can be a thing again! That'd be so cool!"? I do. You hit the nail on the head, that's what everyone's trying to forget: that we spent like a whole five years hearing how much people want mono-black to be "A Thing". Now it is, and people want it to go away already.
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Jun 1, 2014 03:33
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gorgeous west posted:Playing standard, when I'm up against UW control or the like (already a tough matchup for me) I tend to feel rushed into misplays because first games always seem to take 15-20 minutes and I worry afterward about match time in general. What deck are you playing? It really depends on your deck and what the game state is... Does your deck take a long time to win? Do you have a ton of dead cards G1 and your post board games will go better because you can bring in a lot of hate for the matchup? Is your hand empty and you have nothing on the board while they have a full hand, a ton of lands, planeswalkers and a high life total? Have they shown you their win con? If "yes" is the answer to each then it is probably time to move on to G2.
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Jun 1, 2014 03:42
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On game day I was up against a notoriously slow player at our store. He always plays blue decks and always goes to time. I won game 1, game 2 he had me on the ropes but was dragging it out, taking minutes at a time to think about his plays. I conceded when If figured I didn't really have any outs, and beat him in game 3... in turn 4 of extra turns. Concession was definitely the right call there.
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Jun 1, 2014 03:56
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ShadeofBlue posted:Shadowmoor was a mono-color block, not multi-color. MaRo has said, though, that Shadowmoor block looking like a multi-color block was part of the problem regarding Alara block coming so close to another multi-color block. Yeah, I get that hybrid cards give monocolor options because a hybrid card can go in two different monocolor decks. But Shadowmoor also encouraged focusing on two colors with cycles like Lieges, Mimics, and those "As long as enchanted creature is [color], as long as enchanted creature is [other color]" auras. Technically you could run a bunch of the same two-color cards while only having a monocolor mana base, but hybrid plus great fixing makes it very easy to toss in a second color without suffering. And when it's in standard sandwiched between a tribal block where each tribe has multiple colors on one side and a true gold block on the other, it's pretty hard not to see hybrid as multiple colors. Which is fine by me because having lots of colors is fun, but it seems really short-sighted of R&D to think Shadowmoor wouldn't come across as multicolor.
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Jun 1, 2014 04:03
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If I'm looking to get back into the game, is it a particularly bad time to go with any one of the big deck types right now? I bought the Theros event deck for the hell of it though I'm sure it wouldn't fare too well due to being a little old, just figured it'd be something decent for the time being til I figure out what to do.
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Jun 1, 2014 04:20
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There's nothing inherently wrong with the new Psychatog art but it's not Dr. Teeth so I automatically hate it. edit: vvv feels like Creative gives as much of a poo poo about MTGO as its developers do Kasonic fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jun 1, 2014 |
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Jun 1, 2014 04:20
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Kasonic posted:There's nothing inherently wrong with the new Psychatog art but it's not Dr. Teeth so I automatically hate it. This and the new Skullclamp make me think of bad renders for a 3DO or Jaguar game that never saw the light of day
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Jun 1, 2014 04:35
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Entropic posted:On game day I was up against a notoriously slow player at our store. He always plays blue decks and always goes to time. I won game 1, game 2 he had me on the ropes but was dragging it out, taking minutes at a time to think about his plays. I conceded when If figured I didn't really have any outs, and beat him in game 3... in turn 4 of extra turns. Concession was definitely the right call there. Was this an event? Call a judge. In my experience judges rarely hesitate to give a verbal for slow playing.
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Jun 1, 2014 05:17
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Entropic posted:On game day I was up against a notoriously slow player at our store. He always plays blue decks and always goes to time. I won game 1, game 2 he had me on the ropes but was dragging it out, taking minutes at a time to think about his plays. I conceded when If figured I didn't really have any outs, and beat him in game 3... in turn 4 of extra turns. Concession was definitely the right call there. If you already won game 1, what was he doing? Slow-playing for the 0-1 loss? If he had the win handily game 2, he should have crushed you. Then at least he has a chance to win the match, and if things go bad, slow-play game 3 for the draw.
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Jun 1, 2014 05:23
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Everblight posted:If you already won game 1, what was he doing? Slow-playing for the 0-1 loss? If he had the win handily game 2, he should have crushed you. Then at least he has a chance to win the match, and if things go bad, slow-play game 3 for the draw. Maybe it was a bad matchup and he didn't want to go to game 3? There was someone who took Legacy Turbofog to an SCG Open and finished with a record of 1-1-9.
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Jun 1, 2014 05:48
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Everblight posted:If you already won game 1, what was he doing? Slow-playing for the 0-1 loss? If he had the win handily game 2, he should have crushed you. Then at least he has a chance to win the match, and if things go bad, slow-play game 3 for the draw. I don't think Entropic meant he was intentionally slow-playing, just that he's a slow player. There's a guy like that at my LGS; he's definitely not slow-playing, he just takes loving forever.
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Jun 1, 2014 05:52
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Dehtraen posted:What deck are you playing? I am playing a little variation on that RUG burn deck (riddles/blast of genius/enter the infinite), so it can definitely surprise out of nowhere. http://www.magicisruinedforever.com/2014/04/14/standard-rug-burn-combo/ But yeah, I think I mostly just need more experience in general to help me in evaluating any given sitch. Control gives me a lot of issues and I was wondering if other guys I've played against have been taking some advantage off my not knowing their decklist by heart. Thanks for the advice all
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Jun 1, 2014 06:00
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Kasonic posted:There's nothing inherently wrong with the new Psychatog art but it's not Dr. Teeth so I automatically hate it.
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Jun 1, 2014 07:52
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How good will Psychatog be in the format? He's situational but there's a lot of potential for card advantage, so if my deck is starting to resemble U/B control after two packs I think Dr. Teeth is an early-to-middle pick for Pack 3.
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Jun 1, 2014 07:56
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Everblight posted:If you already won game 1, what was he doing? Slow-playing for the 0-1 loss? If he had the win handily game 2, he should have crushed you. Then at least he has a chance to win the match, and if things go bad, slow-play game 3 for the draw. If he's intentionally playing slow to get an advantage like that, that's stalling and is grounds for disqualification. Slow players who deserve the warning for slow play do it because they're actually slow players.
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Jun 1, 2014 08:03
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What color and CMC would Invoke Prejudice be if it was printed today? I want to say 2UW or so.
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Jun 1, 2014 08:07
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vOv posted:What color and CMC would Invoke Prejudice be if it was printed today? I want to say 2UW or so. I'd wager it'd still be a blue mono-color enchantment just to fit theme and mechanics, and probably still right around 1UUU or 2UUU given its effect.
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Jun 1, 2014 08:19
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vOv posted:What color and CMC would Invoke Prejudice be if it was printed today? I want to say 2UW or so. It would be a Mythic 2WWUU Legendary Enchantment. That's such a restrictive effect though, it probably wouldn't be printed today.
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Jun 1, 2014 08:25
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Mikujin posted:I'd wager it'd still be a blue mono-color enchantment just to fit theme and mechanics, and probably still right around 1UUU or 2UUU given its effect. There's no way that effect would ever be printed at all, and if it was, you're talking multicolored and 6-8 CMC.
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Jun 1, 2014 09:11
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Elyv posted:This art is awful and Psychatog's original art owned, so I'm pretty disappointed. Psychotog already exists online. It's not like literally every version of Psychotog is being replaced with this version  It's different but freaking out about is dumb. The art looks fine, it's just not nearly as cool as the original's. Oh well! Not like there's a million different alternate art versions of a thousand other cards.
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Jun 1, 2014 09:20
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Zorak posted:Psychotog already exists online. It's not like literally every version of Psychotog is being replaced with this version That art is a loving travesty and I don't get why they keep changing iconic pieces like this. I especially love how the background is completely blank and the little added skull because Psychatog eats graveyards I guess.
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Jun 1, 2014 10:48
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netcat posted:That art is a loving travesty and I don't get why they keep changing iconic pieces like this. Actually the skull is missing the top part because psychatog eats brains 
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Jun 1, 2014 11:21
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