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If anything, Cersei's face post-fight was evidence enough that she hates Tyrion more than she loves her daughter. And we all know how much she loves her children. All about the kids, that one!
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Jun 2, 2014 16:07
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Traitorous Leopard posted:George was quoted recently I think stating something to the effect of no matter what he writes, he still can't compare to the evil that has occurred in the real world. Had a ten hour drive today. Listened to Hardcore History by Dan Carlin, first 3 parts of his ongoing series into World War 1. George has a point.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:08
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I'm probably the only weirdo who think this, but no death has even come close to the random guy getting racked off screen when Arya entered Harrenhall in season 2. He's begging, he's crying, and with each twist it becomes worse until he just suddenly snaps and everything stops. That poo poo was loving horrifying.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:09
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Asehujiko posted:If we're going by what would be an interesting story, Oberyn trying to figure out what to do next now that he's accomplished his life's goal and Tyrion dealing with the fallout of the accusations against him is more interesting than a barely sentient tower of meat killing them who then fucks off again for three more seasons until he has another horse to decapitate. Ned's death set up the plot for the entire succession war and his own role was played out already. Robb's death created the power vacuum that shook up everybody's web of alliances everywhere. Oberyn being dead and Tyrion about to die will just result in status quo, minus two good actors in the King's Landing segments, which has already been haemorrhaging a lot of talent. I LOVE dumb poo poo like this. You have no idea how this is going to play out, you dumb baby.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:10
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Blazing Ownager posted:When was the last time you watched a TV show with a BIG IMPORTANT SHOWDOWN (TM) where you really, truly did not know what was going to happen? I haven't read the books but given the history of the show, I knew he wouldn't win the fight. The whole "Oh, but no! This show is different and what you don't expect to happen, happens" shtick is getting old. It's like the opposite of a formulaic drama. It would have surprised me if Cersei and Tywin actually got what is coming to them.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:10
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Accretionist posted:Yeah, I'm almost more disappointed than entertained at this point. I couldn't get through season 1 of The Shield for very similar reasons (The Shield, a (corrupt) cop drama). This is from like 6 pages back and not related to GoT, but whatever. I'm working my way through The Shield from the beginning for the 3rd time and Season 1 is rough but the show finds focus and becomes one of the best you'll ever see.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:11
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Soulprospector posted:I haven't read the books but given the history of the show, I knew he wouldn't win the fight. The whole "Oh, but no! This show is different and what you don't expect to happen, happens" shtick is getting old. It's like the opposite of a formulaic drama. It would have surprised me if Cersei and Tywin actually got what is coming to them. This is a really easy position to take. Because any time someone you like dies, you can say "GOD THIS SHOW IS SO PREDICTABLE." But when someone you like lives (Jon Snow getting caught inside a house with nothing but a sword, against Karl Fookin Legend, who thankfully was stabbed in the back by one of Craster's wives) everyone just breathes a sigh of relief and moves on.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:12
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SBJ posted:Does Tywin even know what the hell he is doing anymore or is he just going through the motions to organize his own demise? He acts like he has some grand master plan but on the surface he doesn't seem to be very prepared to preserve his family name.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:14
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I honestly wasn't that attached to Oberyn. He was kinda cool, sure, but I'm more concerned about what this means for Tyrion.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:16
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Imagine last night's head popping scene played out with Season 1 The Mountain. Holy poo poo, even more horrifying.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:19
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Soulprospector posted:I haven't read the books but given the history of the show, I knew he wouldn't win the fight. The whole "Oh, but no! This show is different and what you don't expect to happen, happens" shtick is getting old. It's like the opposite of a formulaic drama. It would have surprised me if Cersei and Tywin actually got what is coming to them. This makes those moments in which when the thing you're expecting happens, it is so much more satisfying than it normally would be. E.g. I wasn't expecting Joffrey to die like that, but goddamn it was great.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:20
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AtraMorS posted:Tywin's the Michael Corleone of Westeros: He talks a lot about family but he's got a very warped and limited definition of the term. His children and filial relations appear to be a big blind spot for him. It's been pointed out before, but my feeling on Tywin is that he has always been a very intelligent man and strategist, but a completely terrible judge of talent and character. When people fall within the definitions of their role, he is usually pretty spot on. But the moment people start breaking the mould, he falls short. He has never taken Tyrion's intelligence seriously beyond giving him the position of Hand temporarily, but very quickly relegated him to the master of coin once he came back. He was blindsided by Robb's original maneuvers since he fully expected a rookie commander to gently caress up on the battlefield, and again never took Tyrion's feelings towards him into account when manipulating him in the court case. He mostly expects people to act rationally, and that's his blindspot.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:21
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Soulprospector posted:I haven't read the books but given the history of the show, I knew he wouldn't win the fight. The whole "Oh, but no! This show is different and what you don't expect to happen, happens" shtick is getting old. It's like the opposite of a formulaic drama. It would have surprised me if Cersei and Tywin actually got what is coming to them. That's you just attempting to be "above" being manipulated by taking an opposite stance, but are actually just making the same mistake you would if you thought the "good guys" would win by default. To this point, it's pretty even on whether people will live or die based on how much they are liked at a given time. It's no more "the liked character wins" than it is "the liked character loses." It just typically doesn't have plot armor for anyone.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:30
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SBJ posted:This makes those moments in which when the thing you're expecting happens, it is so much more satisfying than it normally would be. E.g. I wasn't expecting Joffrey to die like that, but goddamn it was great. Rethinking my earlier statement. Maybe it was an emotional reaction. I really, really wanted him to win and wipe that smirk off Cersei's face. You're right, Joffrey's death was magnificent.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:32
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Maxwell Lord posted:I honestly wasn't that attached to Oberyn. He was kinda cool, sure, but I'm more concerned about what this means for Tyrion. I'm not at all concerned about Tyrion. GRRM kills a lot of characters but I can't see him killing off Tyrion or Arya or Jon basically ever.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:36
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oswald ownenstein posted:I'm not at all concerned about Tyrion. GRRM kills a lot of characters but I can't see him killing off Tyrion or Arya or Jon basically ever. What about Ned, Robb or Cat?
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Jun 2, 2014 16:37
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Tirranek posted:I'm probably the only weirdo who think this, but no death has even come close to the random guy getting racked off screen when Arya entered Harrenhall in season 2. He's begging, he's crying, and with each twist it becomes worse until he just suddenly snaps and everything stops. That poo poo was loving horrifying. ........link?
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Jun 2, 2014 16:37
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I wish he would kill off Bran, because his entire story ark is so drat boring. You're off to find a 3-eyed raven you have seen in your dreams. WHY? I hate all the mystic wizard bullshit that his two boring companions constantly encourage him with as well.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:38
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oswald ownenstein posted:I'm not at all concerned about Tyrion. GRRM kills a lot of characters but I can't see him killing off Tyrion or Arya or Jon basically ever.  Oh sweet summer child...
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Jun 2, 2014 16:41
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SBJ posted:I wish he would kill off Bran, because his entire story ark is so drat boring. You're off to find a 3-eyed raven you have seen in your dreams. WHY? At least you know he won't be killed off because no one cares. At all.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:47
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This show had a guy killed by having a rat driven mad with fear chew its way through a guy's chest. It's brutal, guys.Max posted:It's been pointed out before, but my feeling on Tywin is that he has always been a very intelligent man and strategist, but a completely terrible judge of talent and character. When people fall within the definitions of their role, he is usually pretty spot on. But the moment people start breaking the mould, he falls short. He has never taken Tyrion's intelligence seriously beyond giving him the position of Hand temporarily, but very quickly relegated him to the master of coin once he came back. He was blindsided by Robb's original maneuvers since he fully expected a rookie commander to gently caress up on the battlefield, and again never took Tyrion's feelings towards him into account when manipulating him in the court case. He mostly expects people to act rationally, and that's his blindspot. As much as Tywin hates Tyrion, he definitely respects him. Hand of the King, especially with a young king, is a position of immense power, and that appointment is a testament to just how much he does respect Tyrion's skills. I think Tywin is okay with Tyrion if he isn't around Tyrion, which is why as soon as he came back to King's Landing, he started shunting him off to the side (although honestly, Master of Coin is still pretty important). He also hosed up with Tyrion's temperament in the trial because he has a hard time thinking of him as someone who loves, because he mostly hates thinking about him at all. If anything, I'd say Tyrion is his big blind spot. The issue with Robb is that he had every reason to think Robb would be doing foolish things, since he was green and young. Since he never faced him himself, he could only learn from stories, and by the time that happened, he'd lost the advantage. But he did address the Robb problem eventually....
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Jun 2, 2014 16:48
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'Good' characters dying isn't a shtick, it's the point of the loving story. It's characters trying to get stuff done in a radically unfair world that not only seems to reward cruelty, but also has true evil forces and magic. If you only enjoy the obvious fan service "hoorah!/girlpower" characters and moments, then you must be miserable watching this show. Since we can't talk about the books in here, how about we can't poo poo on GRRM as a writer?
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Jun 2, 2014 16:48
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Tirranek posted:I'm probably the only weirdo who think this, but no death has even come close to the random guy getting racked off screen when Arya entered Harrenhall in season 2. He's begging, he's crying, and with each twist it becomes worse until he just suddenly snaps and everything stops. That poo poo was loving horrifying. The rats in a hot bucket against the belly was pretty twisted too. Theres just something about a dudes head literally exploding and then showing the shattered wreckage of his face though..
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Jun 2, 2014 16:49
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Max posted:It's been pointed out before, but my feeling on Tywin is that he has always been a very intelligent man and strategist, but a completely terrible judge of talent and character. When people fall within the definitions of their role, he is usually pretty spot on. But the moment people start breaking the mould, he falls short. He has never taken Tyrion's intelligence seriously beyond giving him the position of Hand temporarily, but very quickly relegated him to the master of coin once he came back. He was blindsided by Robb's original maneuvers since he fully expected a rookie commander to gently caress up on the battlefield, and again never took Tyrion's feelings towards him into account when manipulating him in the court case. He mostly expects people to act rationally, and that's his blindspot. His blind spot's his own flesh and blood. He doesn't misuse and abuse Tyrion because he can't wrap his head around the concept of an intelligent dwarf; he does it because his wife died giving birth to Tyrion and he's still raw about it. Anytime else Tywin wants to get poo poo done, especially when it comes to applying leverage to other families, he's more than up to the task. But when it comes to actual relationships with his children (and not just arranging political marriages), he's rarely gotten anything constructive accomplished at all. His daughter is an utterly broken person, his heir apparent abdicated to gently caress his twin sister, and Tyrion's arc speaks for itself.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:49
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SunknLiner posted:........link? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwe4sa5_Hc Also yeah, bucket rat was horrible too, but there was something about it being off-screen which made my mind have to fill in the gaps in a really horrible way. Tirranek fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 16:49
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MrBims posted:
This phrase should be bannable
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Jun 2, 2014 16:50
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Okay, so while your average person could not crush a persons skull, someone like the Mountain absolutely can; http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/05/29/star_trek_into_darkness_could_khan_really_crush_a_skull_with_his_bare_hands.html
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Jun 2, 2014 16:57
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Baldbeard posted:'Good' characters dying isn't a shtick, it's the point of the loving story. It's characters trying to get stuff done in a radically unfair world that not only seems to reward cruelty, but also has true evil forces and magic. Also remember that this is based on a gigantic 7 book series and we're a little more than halfway through the main story. I don't think there should be many victories for the good guys this early on. It's going to make the ending that much more satisfying if the characters we like end up on top when it's all over. Now that I think about it, the only story line that has had some major victories is Daenerys. I could totally see them setting her up to be a major villain in the end.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:59
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Darko posted:That's you just attempting to be "above" being manipulated by taking an opposite stance, but are actually just making the same mistake you would if you thought the "good guys" would win by default. To this point, it's pretty even on whether people will live or die based on how much they are liked at a given time. It's no more "the liked character wins" than it is "the liked character loses." It just typically doesn't have plot armor for anyone. Plus the fact that the story was written 10 years ago, well before any viewer started "liking" a character. As has been said multiple times in the thread, Oberyn was a minor character in the books hardly ever mentioned until just before all this kicks off. He wasn't a major likeable character being killed off to do the opposite of the "good guys always win" thing. They upped the presence of the character in the TV show as it made better TV.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:02
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The most shocking thing I learned from this thread is that large numbers of people like Daenerys. Arya I get, because she's becoming an icecold killer, but Dany? She got gifted dragons and armies, and talks non-ironically about "the usurper" when her dumb family stormed into Westeros with a huge deus ex machina fairly recently and hosed everything up (and legalized regal incest), and about her brother's claim, even though her brother was an idiot she doesn't even like. At least she could acknowledge that under the old Targaryen rules, her only shot at the throne would've been on his lap. And now she's sent off the only guy who keeps her from doing insane things. Gonna go great! Maybe Tyrion can go meet up with her and teach her dragons what Cersei looks like. Only way they redeem those things is if one of them eats her.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:04
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I said come in! posted:Okay, so while your average person could not crush a persons skull, someone like the Mountain absolutely can; http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/05/29/star_trek_into_darkness_could_khan_really_crush_a_skull_with_his_bare_hands.html Looking at the numbers: So 520lbs to crush a skull? The current Mountain can bench press 507 lbs- while the show presentation is obviously dramatic, it does not seem implausible for such a huge dude to literally  your head if he is leaning and pushing on it (he weighs 419 lbs).
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Jun 2, 2014 17:10
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AuxiliaryPatroller posted:Looking at the numbers: So 520lbs to crush a skull? The current Mountain can bench press 507 lbs- while the show presentation is obviously dramatic, it does not seem implausible for such a huge dude to literally It's not saying that anyone who can bench 520 pounds can pop a skull.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:11
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AuxiliaryPatroller posted:Looking at the numbers: So 520lbs to crush a skull? The current Mountain can bench press 507 lbs- while the show presentation is obviously dramatic, it does not seem implausible for such a huge dude to literally That also may not be taking into account the fact that he had some leverage, since his thumbs were wedged in his eye sockets (that is so gross.)
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Jun 2, 2014 17:13
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I loved when Arya started laughed her rear end off at the Hound when they were told her aunt died.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:15
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As much as I dislike the Oberyn/Mountain fight, I am actually really interested in Essos/Dany story all of a sudden. It's been really stagnant, but now...sending Jorah away, Dany is really building up some serious flaws of her own. She's getting drunk on power and killing her support from the people who have been closest to her. The closest person to her now is Dario...who she really shouldn't trust as much as she does.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:16
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419 pounds, plus all that armor weight, pounding onto a skull through the contact point of metal gloves. Yeah, it could happen.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:16
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Super Aggro Crag posted:I loved when Arya started laughed her rear end off at the Hound when they were told her aunt died. I think it was a mix of that and just laughing at how horribly hosed up her situation is at this point.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:16
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SBJ posted:Does Tywin even know what the hell he is doing anymore or is he just going through the motions to organize his own demise? He acts like he has some grand master plan but on the surface he doesn't seem to be very prepared to preserve his family name. He HAD a master plan, until Tyrion went all you-cant-handle-the-truth and hosed everything up (again). Jorah is going to ride in to Tyrion's rescue any second now
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Jun 2, 2014 17:19
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Wait, isn't Cersei's daughter being held by Oberyn's people? What's to stop them from deciding they aren't happy with the whole skull crushing business and lopping the princess's head off?
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Jun 2, 2014 17:23
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I love how both the Stark girls are just becoming their male captor/surrogate father, with Ayra becoming a murderous pup and Sansa's starting to sprout mockingbird wings. Also, it's not a goth look, she's trying to pass herself off in the Eyrie as Littlefinger's niece, Ladyfinger.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:24
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