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 Smart Approach to Marijuana #1: "Keep on keepin' on!"
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Jun 2, 2014 02:07
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Kevin Sabet's presence in an article evokes an instant laugh from me at this point. The guy was politely reamed in a Congressional hearing while peddling exactly this line and it doesn't seem to have slowed him down any.
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Jun 2, 2014 02:26
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Pryor on Fire posted:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/01/us/after-5-months-of-sales-colorado-sees-the-downside-of-a-legal-high.html I'd bet that the  medical examiner is some dumb anti weed crusader. Even if this were true it's still worth it to legalize weed, the harm created by weed prohibition is way worse than some dumb kids life. 
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Jun 2, 2014 03:30
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Don't be callous. A kid just died. Probably very, very far away from his family and home country. There should be a parallel drive for public awareness and information about marijuana though, but I think the federal stance yet stifles that lane of discourse in public ground. People have noted wild inconsistencies with edibles though, that's a well known fact and really should be publicized more, if at least to get some regulation efforts rolling on that area. The people that make edibles aren't nearly as stringent in their methods as they should be.
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Jun 2, 2014 04:19
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Don't be callous. A kid just died. Probably very, very far away from his family and home country. Pffft they have weed and tall buildings in Africa, he was just a dumbass. The story here is that anti-drug crusaders are trotting out reefer madness bullshit as always.
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Jun 2, 2014 05:34
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I'm not at all surprised that dumb poo poo is happening in the wake of legalization, seeing as it opens the door to all sorts of situations where some newbie gets way too high and freaks out in some unpredictable and potentially dangerous way. With that in mind, I'm all for putting out PSAs, pamphlets in dispensiaries and whatnot to provide some helpful information to tourists, newcomers, and otherwise inexperienced consumers regarding safe and responsible enjoyment of the reefer. I would also be for a unified labeling standard for indicating the potency of marijuana products, as well as some indication on what constitutes a single dose and how many a given package contains, similar to the Units of Alcohol thing they have in the UK. Sometimes it's easy to forget that weed isn't a universally benign drug, and that there are risks involved, we're talking about a mind-altering substance after all, and there are plenty of people out there who have trouble with its effects and sometimes can't cope with an overwhelming experience. snorch fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 12:32
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snorch posted:With that in mind, I'm all for putting out PSAs, pamphlets in dispensiaries and whatnot to provide some helpful information to tourists, newcomers, and otherwise inexperienced consumers regarding safe and responsible enjoyment of the reefer. Edibles especially. No need to go nuts, but with the way THC can be concentrated in those, it seems more than reasonable to require companies to provide THC content and source strain (and this should be enforced on some level to force consistency from edible producers). A note or insert would be a good idea too. Something along the lines of explaining that this product can have intense/or uncomfortable psychological effects for some users, but there is no physical danger. e: This is putting the cart before the horse in most states though. Any sort of criminal enforcement for marijuana causes far more harm than the occasional freakout or DUI, and yet more criminal enforcement is exactly what most of the critics in the article would move towards. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 12:45
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Pryor on Fire posted:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/01/us/after-5-months-of-sales-colorado-sees-the-downside-of-a-legal-high.html There is a prime example of crappy reporting. The kid who fell off the balcony and the murderer have been discussed to death elsewhere, but the worst case interpretations of the events are seized upon by those with a prohibitionist agenda. Those with any sense get that the Mormon murderer was probably trying to fabricate a defense in advance of the crime. There are also questions about the toxicology reports and so forth.
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Jun 3, 2014 01:34
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snorch posted:I'm not at all surprised that dumb poo poo is happening in the wake of legalization, seeing as it opens the door to all sorts of situations where some newbie gets way too high and freaks out in some unpredictable and potentially dangerous way. With that in mind, I'm all for putting out PSAs, pamphlets in dispensiaries and whatnot to provide some helpful information to tourists, newcomers, and otherwise inexperienced consumers regarding safe and responsible enjoyment of the reefer. Look at all this 1930s-level bullshit. Read some history and stop repeating it before you hold forth about what laws need to be passed.
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Jun 3, 2014 01:52
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Millions of people smoke marijuana and have been for quite some time. Where are the weed horror stories to match the alcohol, crack, meth, acid, shroom, heroin, and cocaine stories? There should be thousands if not tens of thousands of these stories every year, going back decades. Where are they? What percentage of users is "plenty", "a lot", "many", or "some"? The anti-marijuana crowd has basically not even tried to make much of a case beyond using scary language and a handful of incidents.
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Jun 3, 2014 02:05
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ToastyPotato posted:Millions of people smoke marijuana and have been for quite some time. Where are the weed horror stories to match the alcohol, crack, meth, acid, shroom, heroin, and cocaine stories? There should be thousands if not tens of thousands of these stories every year, going back decades. Where are they? What percentage of users is "plenty", "a lot", "many", or "some"? The anti-marijuana crowd has basically not even tried to make much of a case beyond using scary language and a handful of incidents. Fear is all they've ever really had the whole time, but the rational arguments are now winning. One argument I've been using for years now is that prohibition has been such a failure at preventing people from obtaining marijuana, we're already experiencing the worst effects of marijuana consumption in addition to all of the problems associated with black-markets. If there were violence or serious health problems associated with marijuana use there would be strong evidence given the millions of people who routinely use it. If there was strong evidence, wouldn't anti-legalization supporters be using that instead of a few isolated incidents? The ironic thing about the arguments made from fear is that most of them can be addressed and resolved by legalization itself. Afraid that potent strains and edibles will make people go insane? With a regulated legal market you can test the strength of products, accurately label products for strength and recommended use and limit the availability of stronger products.
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Jun 3, 2014 14:09
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No guys. The new weed cookies are stronger than any illegal drug. They're the crack of weed, crack of weed, crack of weed. Crack of weed  
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Jun 3, 2014 14:17
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You could smoke shatter with a literal crack pipe. On a related note: Why are there so many dumb motherfuckers making BHO in their basements, garages or apartments? We've had 3 BHO explosions in the area in the last 2 weeks. Save yourself a month-long stint at the burn unit and do that poo poo outdoors.
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Jun 3, 2014 14:30
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The funnier thing about marijuana is that people make medical claims about the potential for devastating psychological effects, but the fact that millions of people use it every year probably makes it one of the more well tested drugs out there. 
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Jun 3, 2014 14:39
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quote:In February, for example, in the Denver suburb of Aurora, a 17-year-old planning to rob an out-of-state marijuana buyer instead accidentally shot and killed his girlfriend, law enforcement officials said. How is this in ANY possible way a side product of legal pot? Are you telling me that someone who was willing to rob another at gunpoint would have trouble with moving the product on the market under the old system? Or is the issue that the new rules have made targets more conspicuous, in which case what was to stop him from simply staking out a medical dispensary and picking out targets that way? I usually hold the NY Times in pretty high esteem but this article is really bad.
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Jun 3, 2014 18:29
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Icept posted:How is this in ANY possible way a side product of legal pot? Are you telling me that someone who was willing to rob another at gunpoint would have trouble with moving the product on the market under the old system? Or is the issue that the new rules have made targets more conspicuous, in which case what was to stop him from simply staking out a medical dispensary and picking out targets that way? Because now it's inept white suburban kids doing this instead of inner city gang kids, I guess? Expect the fear to be kept on life support for years.
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Jun 3, 2014 18:43
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Spoondick posted:You could smoke shatter with a literal crack pipe. On a related note: Why are there so many dumb motherfuckers making BHO in their basements, garages or apartments? We've had 3 BHO explosions in the area in the last 2 weeks. Save yourself a month-long stint at the burn unit and do that poo poo outdoors. Because you can buy that stuff at the corner store, how dangerous can it be? If it's safe enough to fill lighters it must be safe enough to buy a case of cans and vent them into your oven hood.
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Jun 3, 2014 20:04
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http://time.com/2814282/marijuana-sleep-deprivation/ Study links teenage marijuana usage with long-term sleep deprivation.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:47
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AYC posted:http://time.com/2814282/marijuana-sleep-deprivation/ ...and then there's this: quote:The research team notes that the study was not designed to determined causality, so they cannot determine the exact relationship between marijuana use and sleep disturbance. Predictable.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:50
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I don't think it's unreasonable for high schoolers to refrain from excessive marijuana use, for the same reason they should refrain from excessive alcohol use.
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Jun 3, 2014 22:02
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Doesn't caffeine also prevent sleep, in a much more provable way, and is also something young people abuse intentionally to achieve exactly that effect?
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Jun 3, 2014 22:08
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AYC posted:I don't think it's unreasonable for high schoolers to refrain from excessive marijuana use, for the same reason they should refrain from excessive alcohol use. I don't think it's unreasonable to stop worrying about it. Completely. Because unlike alcohol nobody is dying from it. Nobody cares how reasonable you are.
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Jun 3, 2014 22:20
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SedanChair posted:I don't think it's unreasonable to stop worrying about it. Completely. Because unlike alcohol nobody is dying from it. I too am mad enough about the drug war that I refuse to even acknowledge or consider potential negative side effects of drug legalization, whether they would warrant a policy shift or not. Seriously, why would you post in d&d to shout at other people sharing information when you have no desire to talk about it or consider it? You contribute nothing and encourage others to do the same. AYC isn't some anti-drug crusader preaching the immorality of drug use, he is just sharing information relevant to the topic at hand. EDIT: It seems all your posts here are similarly, uhh, cogent: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3511253&userid=37552 Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 22:25
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Because it's a boneheaded approach. If you're wringing your hands about negative effects of cannabis and drawing comparisons to alcohol, the killer alcohol of all things, you haven't earned a place in the discourse.
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Jun 3, 2014 22:29
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Jeffrey posted:I too am mad enough about the drug war that I refuse to even acknowledge or consider potential negative side effects of drug legalization, whether they would warrant a policy shift or not. I don't see what he posted as information but instead as propaganda masquerading as information. I don't doubt that both it and even the "Oh noes, ebil mary-hu-wanna makes the poor widdle children jump out of windows!" article were posted in good faith, but that's no reason to treat them as creditable.
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Jun 3, 2014 22:38
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A few months ago there was a lot of talk about potential shortages of legal weed in Colorado, did that ever end up happening?
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Jun 3, 2014 22:42
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Jeffrey posted:I too am mad enough about the drug war that I refuse to even acknowledge or consider potential negative side effects of drug legalization, whether they would warrant a policy shift or not. The position, in general, is illegitimate, unless anyone making the point that marijuana is dangerous is also in favor or banning alcohol and maybe even tobacco. It's silly to come into a discussion like this (where weed is being compared to other drugs to make a point) and be concerned about weed when you aren't expressing concern for other drugs that are provably more dangerous and also completely legal. If the people who are concerned about weed dangers are being honest and are also concerned about alcohol and tobacco, then they sure aren't framing their opinions that way in most discussion I've seen. It's like posting articles trying to get people to not take airplanes because plane crashes happen, while completely ignoring that cars exist and are statistically a way more dangerous way to travel.
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Jun 3, 2014 22:44
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Jeffrey posted:I too am mad enough about the drug war that I refuse to even acknowledge or consider potential negative side effects of drug legalization, whether they would warrant a policy shift or not. I too am mad enough about womens' lack of voting rights that I refuse to even acknowledge or consider potential negative side effects of allowing women to lawfully vote.
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Jun 3, 2014 23:14
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Xandu posted:A few months ago there was a lot of talk about potential shortages of legal weed in Colorado, did that ever end up happening? There was a shortage of cheap weed, because everything had to be either grown starting on January 1, or had to be weed previously grown for medical uses and then transferred over.
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Jun 3, 2014 23:19
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http://www.aasmnet.org/articles.aspx?id=4779quote:Results show that any history of cannabis use was associated with an increased likelihood of reporting difficulty falling asleep, struggling to maintain sleep, experiencing non-restorative sleep, and feeling daytime sleepiness. The strongest association was found in adults who started marijuana use before age 15; they were about twice as likely to have severe problems falling asleep (odds ratio = 2.28), experiencing non-restorative sleep (OR = 2.25) and feeling overly sleepy during the day (OR = 1.99). Results were adjusted for potential confounders including age, sex, race/ethnicity and education. In other news, results show that any history of melatonin, benadryl, or ambien use is also correlated with an increased likelihood of problems falling asleep. loving statistics, how do they work  EDIT: http://www.journalsleep.org/Resources/Documents/2014AbstractSupplement.pdf It's 0817 in this list. Note how study 0816, above it, is a much better study in every respect; it adjusts for anxiety, depression, and drinking, it uses actual sleep measurements and documented marijuana usage instead of fishing for spurious correlations in epidemiologic data, and isn't going to get a whiff of coverage in TIME or anywhere else because it found no difference in sleep health except for current, daily users, which doesn't fit the MARIJUANA NOT EVEN ONCE narrative. Amazing what you can do when you don't design with your head up your rear end. Elotana fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 00:20
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Jeffrey posted:I too am mad enough about the drug war that I refuse to even acknowledge or consider potential negative side effects of drug legalization, whether they would warrant a policy shift or not. Indeed. I am a full supporter of marijuana legalization and regulation. "Regulation" means that people need to be educated about the facts related to its usage, including potential harm in extreme amounts of use. I'm a regular pot smoker myself (hell, look at my custom title!); doesn't mean I daybake or that I think it's completely harmless. Don't get me wrong: the potential harms of legalizing marijuana are far outweighed by the continued, objective harm of keeping it illegal. But if we are going to legalize it, as we rightly should, we need to do so in a smart and responsible manner, and that includes airing all of the facts in a public discussion. Which is what the forum is for.
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Jun 4, 2014 00:25
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http://www.policymic.com/articles/90419/5-months-since-legalizing-marijuana-here-s-what-colorado-looks-like Here, something for SedanChair's circlejerk. 
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Jun 4, 2014 00:38
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All of this "regulation" horseshit claptrap is superfluous. They've spent the better part of 100 years searching desperately with the entire resources of the federal government for any evidence that cannabis is harmful. They've found exactly nothing. It should be as legal as Cheetos.
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Jun 4, 2014 01:22
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SedanChair posted:All of this "regulation" horseshit claptrap is superfluous. They've spent the better part of 100 years searching desperately with the entire resources of the federal government for any evidence that cannabis is harmful. They've found exactly nothing. It should be as legal as Cheetos. You are literally the caricature that legalization opponents try to portray all of us as. You're not helping.
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Jun 4, 2014 01:32
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AYC posted:You are literally the caricature that legalization opponents try to portray all of us as. You're not helping. The purpose of posts on the something awful forums is not to "help". He's right, get over it. "You are literally the caricature that abolitionists try to portray us all as. You're not helping."
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Jun 4, 2014 01:35
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AYC posted:You are literally the caricature that legalization opponents try to portray all of us as. You're not helping. No the caricature would be if I held the same position for heroin and amphetamines. Cannabis is not harmful and the only arguments for its regulation are political and tactical ones like you are making.
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Jun 4, 2014 01:46
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Having written a few meeting abstracts, I would suggest not relying on them for anything important ever.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:53
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SedanChair posted:No the caricature would be if I held the same position for heroin and amphetamines. Cannabis is not harmful and the only arguments for its regulation are political and tactical ones like you are making. I'm as big a hippie stoner as the next guy, but the idea that sales of cannabis should be completely unrelated is misguided at best. I understand the feeling behind it, but no, high schoolers probably shouldn't smoke pot. Aside from whatever harm it does our doesn't do at that age, it's completely harmful to the movement towards legalization because it's unconscionable to the general public and gives people solid arguments when they say that legalization will just get a bunch of kids on pot. I am aware that the country is primarily composed of adults, and that it's impractical to set all the rules for "the children." The country is also in the real world.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:58
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I don't particularly care if it's legal for them to smoke it, but I don't think they should be able to straight up buy it. Let it be like alcohol in most states, where if underage kids want to use it they need parental permission.
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Jun 4, 2014 04:05
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Inspector Hound posted:gives people solid arguments when they say that legalization will just get a bunch of kids on pot. It's not a solid argument though. Prohibition is not an effective way to curb usage. Beyond that, kids can already buy pot. Making it legal only makes it harder to buy pot, not easier.
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Jun 4, 2014 04:17
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