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Linedance posted:All this fantasizing about rwd performance Lincolns is all well and good, but who's gonna buy one over audi/bmw/merc/caddy/(and maybe)infiniti? Meanwhile Lexus is sitting there with boring, reputedly rock solid comfy couches driven by whatever wheels, it hardly matters outside of marketing, and they make a killing doing it. Used car values reflect it, a used Lexus is going to be nearly double the price of the equivalent German. That's the end of the market Lincoln should aim for, not the sharp end where there is zero reason for consumers to look twice at your brand. Who the hell goes looking for something with performance and a decent image, then buys a 220bhp FWD budget-brand over a 320bhp RWD premium brand?
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Jun 8, 2014 09:59
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InitialDave posted:Eh, people make some strange decisions. I have no idea how VW sell Golf GTis, let alone Golf Rs over here - once you option leather on a GTi, you can get a BMW M135i for only £2k more. Better in every way, better image, a lot more power, and that power is sent to the correct wheels. VW is a special case, because VW buyers are... a special case... That whole premium brand thing though, that's just pure marketing smoke and mirrors. Modern 3 series and C-class interiors are as cheap and plasticy as any non-german mainstream line (maybe GM aside). 1 series really aren't any more deluxe than a Golf or A-class, regardless of the driven wheels.
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Jun 8, 2014 10:12
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I'm not sure I'd entirely agree on that, I felt the 1 series seemed slightly better in those terms than the Golf, but yes, really, it's a moot point, it's more the "I drive a..." factor than the reality of the quality, and BMW definitely has the edge there.
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Jun 8, 2014 10:19
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The current 1 series/X1 is the ugliest car I've ever seen, even by modern BMW standards. BMW's Chinese joint venture partner makes a knockoff version of it that I saw at the Beijing auto show and honestly the Chinese knockoff is better looking. Also the RWD drivetrain cuts down significantly on interior space and surely the GTI gets better fuel economy?
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Jun 8, 2014 10:23
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Throatwarbler posted:Also the RWD drivetrain cuts down significantly on interior space and surely the GTI gets better fuel economy? If all you want is fuel economy and space you may as well get the much cheaper and more economical base Golf with the little 1.4
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Jun 8, 2014 11:48
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Throatwarbler posted:The current 1 series/X1 is the ugliest car I've ever seen, even by modern BMW standards. BMW's Chinese joint venture partner makes a knockoff version of it that I saw at the Beijing auto show and honestly the Chinese knockoff is better looking. Also the RWD drivetrain cuts down significantly on interior space and surely the GTI gets better fuel economy? The 1 series isn't entirely horrible but I honestly have no idea what the gently caress the X1 commands a premium for. It doesn't look sleek or stylish, doesn't really have much luxury to speak of and it's not like it's more economical than the competition. That badge costs some dollars I guess.
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Jun 8, 2014 15:08
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dissss posted:If all you want is fuel economy and space you may as well get the much cheaper and more economical base Golf with the little 1.4 Or someone could go fast and have performance AND economy and space. Hot hatches are a thing for a reason.
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Jun 8, 2014 15:36
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InitialDave posted:Eh, people make some strange decisions. I have no idea how VW sell Golf GTis, let alone Golf Rs over here - once you option leather on a GTi, you can get a BMW M135i for only £2k more. Better in every way, better image, a lot more power, and that power is sent to the correct wheels. I bought my 2010 GTI in 2012 for $17k (deal of the century). It has a fantastic leather, almost Audi-like interior, i was able to fit a full dresser in it with the seats down/hatch closed, it has 265hp/300 torque with a tune, and it draws less attention than a BMW. What's not to like?
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Jun 8, 2014 15:48
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Residency Evil posted:I bought my 2010 GTI in 2012 for $17k (deal of the century). It has a fantastic leather, almost Audi-like interior, i was able to fit a full dresser in it with the seats down/hatch closed, it has 265hp/300 torque with a tune, and it draws less attention than a BMW. What's not to like? How many miles on it? I'm starting to look at a new(er) car and I love the GTI but it's hard to justify buying one over either of the STs, especially when you start adding bullshit packages. I just want a bare bones GTI with a moonroof.
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Jun 8, 2014 16:04
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travisray2004 posted:How many miles on it? I'm starting to look at a new(er) car and I love the GTI but it's hard to justify buying one over either of the STs, especially when you start adding bullshit packages. I just want a bare bones GTI with a moonroof. I bought it with 35k miles in June of 2012 and have 45k on it now. The GTI isn't the best at anything (except maybe the interior) but it's great at everything.
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Jun 8, 2014 16:20
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Residency Evil posted:I bought my 2010 GTI in 2012 for $17k (deal of the century). It has a fantastic leather, almost Audi-like interior, i was able to fit a full dresser in it with the seats down/hatch closed, it has 265hp/300 torque with a tune, and it draws less attention than a BMW. What's not to like? Not to mention driving a 1-series makes you look like a complete choad in ways you've got to push much harder for in a VAG product
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Jun 8, 2014 18:03
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Snowdens Secret posted:Not to mention driving a 1-series makes you look like a complete choad in ways you've got to push much harder for in a VAG product If a 300hp/300ft lb RWD coupe with a 6-speed manual that can also get up to 30mpg is wrong then I don't want to be right.
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Jun 8, 2014 18:40
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Did the 1 series ever come to America? BMW's USA site only lists the 2 series currently. Makes it all kind of a moot point for a lot of people.
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Jun 8, 2014 18:42
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pik_d posted:Did the 1 series ever come to America? BMW's USA site only lists the 2 series currently. Makes it all kind of a moot point for a lot of people. It only came as a coupe. I love how "but mah baaaaaaaaadge" has now turned into "but your baaaaaaaaadge"
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Jun 8, 2014 18:44
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Guinness posted:If a 300hp/300ft lb RWD coupe with a 6-speed manual that can also get up to 30mpg is wrong then I don't want to be right. So get a V6 Mustang.
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Jun 8, 2014 18:45
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Residency Evil posted:and it draws less attention than a BMW. Assuming we're still talking about luxury sedans/coupes here, this is a small percentage of why people buy BMWs or Lexuses or Audis. People will pay a premium for the attention those higher-priced brands bring.
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Jun 8, 2014 18:46
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Powershift posted:It only came as a coupe. That's what I figured, too bad really.
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Jun 8, 2014 18:47
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Devyl posted:Assuming we're still talking about luxury sedans/coupes here, this is a small percentage of why people buy BMWs or Lexuses or Audis. People will pay a premium for the attention those higher-priced brands bring. That doesn't make it any less gauche. I don't need any extra attention at work/out. Residency Evil fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jun 8, 2014 |
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Jun 8, 2014 18:53
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pik_d posted:That's what I figured, too bad really. There have been 2 generations of 1 series. The previous gen came as a coupe or vert in North America and additionally as a hatch in the rest of the world. The current generation 1 series which I think is not very good looking only comes as a hatch in the rest if the world and not at all in North America. Strangely, BMW kept the previous generation 1 series coupe and vert in production for the North American market until *this year* only while the rest of the world has moved to the current gen hatch in 2011. Meaning that in 20014 you could still buy a car that had been essentially unchanged since 2006. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jun 8, 2014 |
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Jun 8, 2014 19:01
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Residency Evil posted:That doesn't make it any less gauche. It's ok, dude. You can chill out. Nobody is judging you because you can't afford a proper car. We're all friends here. Some people just don't like the pussy shrapnel caused by F or ///M badges, and that's ok with us.
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Jun 8, 2014 19:10
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You made me do it, bike thread. Also, set a few PRs today on the CAAD10. Did 35 miles in 101F Palm Springs hell. I guess I'm back in the zone.
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Jun 8, 2014 19:21
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eyebeem posted:You made me do it, bike thread. That's not gone well.
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Jun 8, 2014 19:23
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Powershift posted:That's not gone well. Oh sweet jesus. That's what I get for post-ride posting. I swear I'm just a normal car-guy like the rest of you. I swear. I'm leaving that post up to remind myself of... of something.
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Jun 8, 2014 19:27
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Powershift posted:It's ok, dude. You can chill out. Nobody is judging you because you can't afford a proper car. We're all friends here. You get pussy shrapnel from driving a Lexus now? Maybe I really do need to add those IS's to my cross-shop list.
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Jun 8, 2014 19:27
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Cocoa Crispies posted:So get a V6 Mustang. Perfomance per dollar aside, some of us just plain like the look and feel of a BMW over a V6 mustang and can justify the cost difference because of preference.
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Jun 8, 2014 19:28
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Residency Evil posted:I bought my 2010 GTI in 2012 for $17k (deal of the century). It has a fantastic leather, almost Audi-like interior, i was able to fit a full dresser in it with the seats down/hatch closed, it has 265hp/300 torque with a tune, and it draws less attention than a BMW. What's not to like? Also, the M135i blends in quite well on this side of the Atlantic, because there are a lot of base versions like the 116d floating around. It doesn't stand out any more than the Golf, really.
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Jun 8, 2014 19:41
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Powershift posted:It's ok, dude. You can chill out. Nobody is judging you because you can't afford a proper car. We're all friends here. I think he's a surgeon just out of med school so I'm sure we'll be seeing his Aventador in the Post Your Ride thread in a few years.
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Jun 8, 2014 19:47
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Wheeee posted:Fair enough, the new Fit and Civic are probably the best examples of Honda's decline. I get the Civic hate (I think it's misguided, but I get it), but how in the hell is the new Fit an example of Honda's decline? It is hands down the best car in its class by any measure or metric.
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Jun 8, 2014 19:58
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KakerMix posted:Or someone could go fast and have performance AND economy and space. Hot hatches are a thing for a reason. I guess it depends on relative pricing - in my market the GTI is extremely overpriced (virtually double the price of a normal Golf) PeterWeller posted:I get the Civic hate (I think it's misguided, but I get it), but how in the hell is the new Fit an example of Honda's decline? It is hands down the best car in its class by any measure or metric. How do you figure that? It definitely has the most interior space, but that is about it.
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Jun 8, 2014 20:18
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InitialDave posted:It's FWD, which is a pretty drat big issue, and the BM still has 20% more power. OTOH, the price gap is quite a bit bigger in some countries, making the 135 a lot less competitive. The BMW is almost £8k more expensive here, and that's before you start loading up on extras (some of which are just silly expensive because BMW). The Golf R is even £400 cheaper than a base 135 here.
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Jun 8, 2014 20:18
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I'm surprised to hear that, normally it's the UK that gets a kicking on price increases for premium versions (as in manufacturer's pricing, not the taxation that buggers things up in so many places). The Golf R is £1k cheaper than an M135i here, but it comes with cloth rather than leather inside, and holy poo poo do VW gouge you on the leather. £1700!
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Jun 8, 2014 20:25
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Snowdens Secret posted:You get pussy shrapnel from driving a Lexus now? Maybe I really do need to add those IS's to my cross-shop list. The original pussy shrapnel dude was bragging about his IS-F at the time. It's from 2012 and i don't have have archives so i can't dig it up though. I'm really just taking the piss out of Residency Evil because he has to work so hard to convince himself he doesn't really want a BMW.
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Jun 8, 2014 22:19
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Powershift posted:The original pussy shrapnel dude was bragging about his IS-F at the time. It's from 2012 and i don't have have archives so i can't dig it up though. It's not like I didn't look at the 1-series when I was buying my car, but I found a fantastic price on the GTI and from a practical standpoint the hatchback is loads better than a comparable 1-series. The Ultimate Driving Experience doesn't mean much when you're commuting to and from work in traffic. Besides, Automotive Insanity › This is a BMW Thread. The 3 Series is only for poors who can't afford a REAL BMW. Residency Evil fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jun 8, 2014 |
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Jun 8, 2014 22:35
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That thread title only exists because i was taking the piss out of hotcanadianchick, don't use it against me. You used words like "gauche" and "attention" in a badge-whoring manner. Badge whoring to put down a brand is worse than badge whoring to put it on a pedestal. It comes across more as jealously and in this case frugality rather than a choice based on how much junk fits in the trunk. Like people who wear a tag heuer and bitch about tryhards in their rolexes, and poors in their casios.
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Jun 8, 2014 22:45
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Residency Evil posted:It's not like I didn't look at the 1-series when I was buying my car, but I found a fantastic price on the GTI and from a practical standpoint the hatchback is loads better than a comparable 1-series. Driving excitement doesn't mean much when you're commuting to and from work in traffic. You were thinking of the 1-series 2-door, which is now replaced by the 2-series, and I agree, it wasn't going to win any beauty contests. I am talking about the 1-series 3-door, which I didn't realise until now wasn't available in the US. Still not the prettiest car, but they look much better in the metal than in pictures. Point is, it really is directly comparable to other high-end hot hatches, because that's what it is. A (relatively) small hatch with a nice big engine in it.
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Jun 8, 2014 22:50
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InitialDave posted:I don't think we're talking about the same cars then. I should have realised. Yeah, unfortunately we don't get the hatchback 1-series here in the US. Powershift posted:That thread title only exists because i was taking the piss out of hotcanadianchick, don't use it against me. I thought I was just getting a good deal by buying a car worth $20k for 17k a few years back, but I guess you've caught how jealous I am and next time I'll pick up a used 1/3-series instead? 
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Jun 8, 2014 22:54
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Residency Evil posted:Yeah, unfortunately we don't get the hatchback 1-series here in the US. The 3 series really is for poors though. You'd be best off with a 5 series touring, or at the very least a 4 series gran coupe.
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Jun 8, 2014 22:59
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Powershift posted:The 3 series really is for poors though. You'd be best off with a 5 series touring, or at the very least a 4 series gran coupe. I'm just hoping I can hold off on knocking someone up for the next few years and get something far less practical 3 years from now.
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Jun 8, 2014 23:01
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The current attitude of elitism being expressed here with regard to BMWs is very disappointing. I expect better from people. Everyone who goes to a BMW dealer should be asked if they have owned an E30, if they really liked it, and if they would honestly prefer BMW to still make them. Lifetime ban unless you can answer "yes" to all three questions. X1, X3 and X5 production should be scaled back to the point where only enough are built so that every dealership can have one of each, as bait for people who may be interested in buying one. If they express such interest, you shoot them. Also, nothing available that isn't RWD only and with a straight six (unless you specifically ask for an S14, at which point they press a button under the sales desk which causes balloons and streamers to fall from the ceiling, and you are crowned king/queen of the dealership for the day), and the entire Mini division shut down permanently. There we go, that's how you do it.
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Jun 8, 2014 23:14
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dissss posted:How do you figure that? It definitely has the most interior space, but that is about it. Nah, the new Fit is near to or best in class in every single measurable metric, and despite being a little softer than the last one, is still considered one of the best driver's cars in the class.
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Jun 8, 2014 23:18
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