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SedanChair posted:Like the police? Yes? That's one example I guess? Or, as I stated before, someone who has passed the necessary safety and handling courses and background checks, and has been licensed to own a firearm. That's another one. Military personnel. Private security. Like, I'm not sure what the point you're making is, but those are a few off the top of my head. EDIT: Missed a word.
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Jun 9, 2014 10:01
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Willatron posted:Yes? Nah, he's saying the police shouldn't be trusted to own firearms. Is it possible he's trolling? Does SedanChair have a record of gun-nuttery on the forums? I'm not used to this level of incoherence.
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Jun 9, 2014 10:03
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Discendo Vox posted:Nah, he's saying the police shouldn't be trusted to own firearms. Is it possible he's trolling? Does SedanChair have a record of gun-nuttery on the forums? I'm not used to this level of incoherence. Actually, his gun nuttery has been pretty consistent over time, but general nuttiness and incoherence has begun to expand to other subjects recently. I think something broke him at some point. Also, isn't gun chat outside of gun threads probatable at this point? I'm not trying to backseat mod. I thought that used to be the case at point.
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Jun 9, 2014 10:06
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One of the mods should make a gun control/tipping honeypot thread at some point. ANYWHO, I stumbled upon a bunch of borderline incomprehensible memes about the emergent church.      
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Jun 9, 2014 10:09
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Willatron posted:Yes? The authorities you're so comfortable with are much more dangerous than the people you're afraid of.
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Jun 9, 2014 10:13
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SedanChair posted:The authorities you're so comfortable with are much more dangerous than the people you're afraid of. Maybe, but we tried fighting them with our guns before. We had better marksmen, better tactics and homefield advantage. Know what they had at the time? Better rifles, more men, essentially unlimited ammunition, better equipment and Gatling cannons. This was in 1885, and the myth of heroic patriots defeating the oppressive government with ARE GUNS was already bullshit. We've had WAY more success with grassroots political action, truth be told. Willatron fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 10:16
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You're really bringing it all out aren't you? I mean I can certainly go there with you. But this is why everybody says gunchat always ends up the same. It's not because of gun nuts like me, it's because you guys flip through every argument in turn looking for one that will stick or that can't be rebutted by basic information. Grassroots political action is the bedrock of everything. But there's no reason to collaborate with the government in disarming yourself. ErIog posted:Actually, his gun nuttery has been pretty consistent over time, but general nuttiness and incoherence has begun to expand to other subjects recently. I think something broke him at some point. ErIog: "Different opinions" 
woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 10:19
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I'm just telling you we've been down that road. Some of us, anyway. My people were some of the only natives in Canada to mount an organized resistance and it didn't go too great. And we're far from disarmed. Canada is chock full of gun owners. We just have reasonable gun control laws, and the myth of the heroic civilian stamping out oppression and crime with his trusty gun just has never been much of a thing up here. I'm relating experiences to you in hopes you'll realize there is reasonable compromise between EVERYBODY owning guns and NOBODY owning guns.
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Jun 9, 2014 10:22
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Willatron posted:I'm just telling you we've been down that road. Some of us, anyway. My people were some of the only natives in Canada to mount an organized resistance and it didn't go too great. It was better than not doing it. Well, not that it's for me to say. For them it was worth it.
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Jun 9, 2014 10:23
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I don't know why you guys don't have SedanChair on ignore; dude's got a long history of getting probated for shitposting on D&D.
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Jun 9, 2014 10:26
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It actually set us back. We lost a great political leader, gained a martyr, were pushed out of our homes and ended up as small pockets of red necks living in rural backwaters (my former fellows I mentioned earlier) who had to hide their identity because the government followed up the quashing of our resistance with a massive propaganda campaign branding us as traitors to the crown. Lynchings were a thing for a while. My grandparents were still denying their culture and ethnicity when I was a kid. Whereas before they were talking to us at the negotiation table, the extreme elements in the communities that sparked violent action against government land surveyors basically set back our bargaining position about 100 years.
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Jun 9, 2014 10:28
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Blarghalt posted:One of the mods should make a gun control/tipping honeypot thread at some point.
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Jun 9, 2014 10:34
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Discendo Vox posted:OK, I can't tell what's going on here- I googled "emergent church", I read the wikipedia page, and now I'm even more confused. It seems vaguely opposed to smuggery by being even more smug, but beyond that I can't even figure out what position it's advocating. From what I understand, the emergent church are basically new, more liberal churches. So obviously conservatives hate them.
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Jun 9, 2014 10:37
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I can't recall if we can emptyquote in DnD.
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Jun 9, 2014 10:42
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Cat Army 
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The Iron Rose posted:I can't recall if we can emptyquote in DnD. For my part, I'm done. I've just lurked through one too many of SedanChairs gun rants, and figured maybe, just maybe, if someone who lives in a nation with reasonable gun legislation, and is part of a culture that has gone through the armed resistance to government tyranny thing, related some experiences, I could make some headway. But yeah, I've got nothing left to say. SORRY EVERYONE!
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Jun 9, 2014 10:48
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falcon2424 posted:Is this a good response? The argument's structure is, "Why don't the people who know about X do the thing that seems obvious to me? When all of the experts are in favor of a status quo that is harmful to everyone but them and actively oppose any attempt to change it, yes, it is a good response. If they don't want to get hosed when everyone else fucks up without them they can participate in finding a good-faith solution.
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Jun 9, 2014 11:03
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Goddamnit people, we already have a thread for arguing with SedanChair about guns right here.
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Jun 9, 2014 13:21
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Remember me, Eddie?!
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Jun 9, 2014 13:50
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Don't get caught up in all the bullshit quibbling, just go straight to repealing the Second Amendment or changing "the People" to "State Militia" so each state can define militia as it desires.
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Jun 9, 2014 14:15
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Nevvy Z posted:Don't get caught up in all the bullshit quibbling, just go straight to repealing the Second Amendment or changing "the People" to "State Militia" so each state can define militia as it desires. Is there a problem with the Federal definition of the milita?
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Jun 9, 2014 14:19
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LeJackal posted:Is there a problem with the Federal definition of the milita? Well, it excludes most teabaggers so....no.
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Jun 9, 2014 14:25
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States generally (probably all of them) already have their own definition of what the militia consists of anyway.
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Jun 9, 2014 14:51
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It doesn't matter if you repeal the Second Amendment, and it doesn't matter what laws you pass, nothing meaningful will ever be done about guns in America. There are 89 firearms per 100 citizens in this country, and they aren't ever going to disappear. So there's absolutely no point in doing anything about it, Pandora's Box is already open and it can't be undone. If you care about gun violence then we need to address the failures of the state to reduce societal causes such as poverty, lack of education, demonization of mental health issues, and more. And you especially need to just flat out ignore single-issue gun voters. If we take guns off the platform then they'll eventually stop caring and stay home, letting us elect better officials that don't have to pander to a bunch of racist, sexist, worthless fuckheads and might actually do something good one day. Let the gun nuts keep their guns, at best they'll stay down in their bunkers mumbling about Mexicans and Blacks coming for them, and at worst someone at the gun club will hear a car backfire and start a shoot out that will solve the problem for us. Either way who gives a poo poo?
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Jun 9, 2014 14:57
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I heard a piece on NPR about the open carry protests in Texas, one of the organizers said something like 'We want people to know they shouldn't be scared of these weapons'. I wanted to shake the guy and yell in his face. They aren't scared of the weapon, they are scared of YOU. You can be button down, suit and tie, and if you're carrying a weapon openly people don't know if you're going to start shooting people. Being publicly armed is not just a statement of rights, it's provocative as hell, and it's impressive how cluelessly myopic these gun fetishists are. I really think guns are just a token identifier of social awkwardness in the same vein as a bag of RPG manuals.
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Jun 9, 2014 15:30
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Popular Thug Drink posted:I heard a piece on NPR about the open carry protests in Texas, one of the organizers said something like 'We want people to know they shouldn't be scared of these weapons'. I wanted to shake the guy and yell in his face. They aren't scared of the weapon, they are scared of YOU. You can be button down, suit and tie, and if you're carrying a weapon openly people don't know if you're going to start shooting people. Being publicly armed is not just a statement of rights, it's provocative as hell, and it's impressive how cluelessly myopic these gun fetishists are. I really think guns are just a token identifier of social awkwardness in the same vein as a bag of RPG manuals. Oh, and I can't (can, I totally can) wait for someone to commit a crime or 'act stupid' in the vicinity of an open-carry protest. Because it'll happen, and some gun nut will flip out over a mugging or something, or more likely some teenage bullshit and open fire, likely missing his target (who he's trying to murder, let's be clear) and endangering others, while expecting people to not be terrified of him having a loving gun. That's why these open-carry people scare the poo poo out of me, because I've got no reason to believe they're trained or competent or not going to flip out if I wear an NPR shirt or order a vegetarian burrito or whatever 'marks' me as an opponent of gun rights in their eyes! Ghost of Reagan Past fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 15:52
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:But they're good responsible law-abiding gun owners! Can't you tell?!? Besides, guns don't kill people, why are you afraid of my gun? See, I have to aim it and press the trigger to shoot you! Stop being so afraid of it, it can't hurt you! Unless, of course, somebody points it at you. It's hard to actually hit what you're shooting at if you don't have any sights on your rifle 
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Jun 9, 2014 16:10
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Popular Thug Drink posted:They aren't scared of the weapon, they are scared of YOU. You can be button down, suit and tie, and if you're carrying a weapon openly people don't know if you're going to start shooting people. Being publicly armed is not just a statement of rights, it's provocative as hell, and it's impressive how cluelessly myopic these gun fetishists are. I really think guns are just a token identifier of social awkwardness in the same vein as a bag of RPG manuals. Pretty much on point. Can't discriminate the person but we can discriminate the gun. And guns have no rights.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:19
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Soviet Commubot posted:It's hard to actually hit what you're shooting at if you don't have any sights on your rifle That's what extended mags are for. You'll hit something eventually if you throw enough lead at it.
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Jun 9, 2014 17:21
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Soviet Commubot posted:It's hard to actually hit what you're shooting at if you don't have any sights on your rifle She needs that gun to protect the world's widest baby
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Jun 9, 2014 17:30
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I'd have more sympathy for (white) gun rights protesters if their primary point of contention, that they need guns to protect against tyranny, wasn't a literal paranoid persecution/hero fantasy.
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Jun 9, 2014 17:38
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Popular Thug Drink posted:I'd have more sympathy for (white) gun rights protesters if their primary point of contention, that they need guns to protect against tyranny, wasn't a literal paranoid persecution/hero fantasy. Its pretty hilarious to call them out for having paranoid fantasies when people in this thread believe they'll be shot for ordering a vegetarian burrito.
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Jun 9, 2014 17:42
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LeJackal posted:Its pretty hilarious to call them out for having paranoid fantasies when people in this thread believe they'll be shot for ordering a vegetarian burrito. Considering there was just a killing at a Cici's pizza by these exact type of white supremacist Tea Party whack jobs...
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Jun 9, 2014 17:47
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Blarghalt posted:ANYWHO, I stumbled upon a bunch of borderline incomprehensible memes about the emergent church. Is it bad if I found every single one of those completely comprehensible? There's a reason I stopped going to the churches in my town, I dropped Sunday school the second someone in the class said evolution was like "an explosion in a junkyard forming a completely functional car." Who What Now posted:Considering there was just a killing at a Cici's pizza by these exact type of white supremacist Tea Party whack jobs... Yes but you see Cici's Pizza doesn't serve vegetarian burritos so his statement is technically correct, the best kind of correct.
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Jun 9, 2014 18:04
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LeJackal posted:Its pretty hilarious to call them out for having paranoid fantasies when people in this thread believe they'll be shot for ordering a vegetarian burrito. "Some idiot with a gun fetish might shoot me while I'm minding my own business" has a hell of a lot more precedent than "I will use my tacticool manchild toy to resist the US military/negro looting waves" Sorry if this triggers your ridiculous martyr fantasies. e: I wonder if alienation isn't a root cause here, because there are a hell of a lot of people who use gun ownership as a path to imagine a noble self-sacrificing end to their otherwise miserable life. boner confessor fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 18:05
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Popular Thug Drink posted:I heard a piece on NPR about the open carry protests in Texas, one of the organizers said something like 'We want people to know they shouldn't be scared of these weapons'. I wanted to shake the guy and yell in his face. They aren't scared of the weapon, they are scared of YOU. You can be button down, suit and tie, and if you're carrying a weapon openly people don't know if you're going to start shooting people. Being publicly armed is not just a statement of rights, it's provocative as hell, and it's impressive how cluelessly myopic these gun fetishists are. I really think guns are just a token identifier of social awkwardness in the same vein as a bag of RPG manuals. It's very amusing to me that the appurtenances of an obese redneck will now necessarily include an actual rifle slung from the body at all times. To accompany a ketchup-dripping sack of McDonald's, jorts, flip-flops and flag t-shirts, as if real life were created by a baffled Dutch cartoonist. The original point of open carry protests in many cases was to draw attention to the inequality of restrictive concealed carry laws. It was always supposed to be a little jarring and absurd. Now morons insist there's nothing absurd about it.
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Jun 9, 2014 18:12
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Let them have their open carry "protests". A non-statistically relevant number of legitimately violent extremists not withstanding, these white redneck blobs are more a danger to themselves than to normal people.
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Jun 9, 2014 18:18
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Who What Now posted:Let them have their open carry "protests". A non-statistically relevant number of legitimately violent extremists not withstanding, these white redneck blobs are more a danger to themselves than to normal people. Sure, it's just funny how clueless they are when they assume everyone implicitly knows they are a law abiding taxpayer when they parade around in public pretending to be super patriotic militia man. Like they have no awareness of how other people percieve them, something common in mental children. I think they honestly believe people are mainly scared of guns themselves as inert objects versus being scared of some cracker idiot rolling into the public library with a dangerous weapon for no reason other than to assert that it is legal. If I see some dude walking around with a rifle in public I am going to assume he is a potentially harmful ideologue. The point is how bad their ham fisted messaging is and the ironically self-defeating optics.
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Jun 9, 2014 18:33
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LeJackal posted:Is there a problem with the Federal definition of the milita? Not necessarily. But allowing state defined militias with a wording change would open up constitutional state level gun control legistlation which is my explicit goal.
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Jun 9, 2014 18:48
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Sure, it's just funny how clueless they are when they assume everyone implicitly knows they are a law abiding taxpayer when they parade around in public pretending to be super patriotic militia man. Like they have no awareness of how other people percieve them, something common in mental children. I think they honestly believe people are mainly scared of guns themselves as inert objects versus being scared of some cracker idiot rolling into the public library with a dangerous weapon for no reason other than to assert that it is legal. Oh, these people should absolutely be ridiculed and ostracized from society at every single opportunity, and it's always reasonable to be extremely cautious around anyone with a firearm of any kind. But they shouldn't be outright feared, in my opinion.
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Jun 9, 2014 18:51
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Nevvy Z posted:Not necessarily. But allowing state defined militias with a wording change would open up constitutional state level gun control legistlation which is my explicit goal. I too, would delight in denying minorities their rights. Why can't we expand this to all the amendments? If Texas wants to make a state religion and burn down every competing church why shouldn't they be allowed? If Arizona wants to revoke any rights against unlawful search and seizure for say, anybody a little too brown, why should we stop them? 
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Jun 9, 2014 18:56
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