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NTRabbit posted:There's so little in common that I fail to see any reasonable way in which Apple and GW could be compared. So. Anyone selling any Tau stuff? I'm looking to scrape together a Farsight Enclave force.
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Jun 9, 2014 15:34
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NTRabbit posted:There's so little in common that I fail to see any reasonable way in which Apple and GW could be compared. I've mentioned a number. But the big ones, both have large market share, relatively elastic demand for product and don't compete on price. Leading to trade practices that seem odd when compared to traditional markets that deal with homogeneous products.
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Jun 9, 2014 15:44
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Cataphract posted:I've mentioned a number. But the big ones, both have large market share, relatively elastic demand for product and don't compete on price. Leading to trade practices that seem odd when compared to traditional markets that deal with homogeneous products. Apple doesn't have odd trade practises, and they don't have remotely similar PR practises, which was the entire pint of the discussion.
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Jun 9, 2014 15:50
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NTRabbit posted:The only hard plastic GW I have are Eldar, and they're honestly not anything to write home about, nor are the finecast examples I have. Additionally Apple has to continually compete and stay ahead of competitors like Samsung and Motorola, and do not own nearly as large a share of their market as Games Workshop does. iOS devices own around 48-50% of the market, give or take, with Android owning another 46-48% or so and everyone else fighting over the remaining 2-6%. On the subject of communication, having an open line of communication doesn't necessarily mean having forums or taking customer feedback (the bulk of which will be worthless outside of a market research context). Where are the developer blogs? Regular articles on tactics, scenery, painting, design, experimental rules to test out, fluff, or anything that isn't "hey here's a new thing to buy"? These used to be regular additions to the Games Workshop site and they encourage sales of content as well. They don't need forums (but they should keep a Facebook presence), but they should strive to create touchpoints with their customer audience that aren't based just around pitching a new product. The more they have, the more positive the general brand experience consumers will have, and the more likely they will be to spend more. serious gaylord posted:I kind of figured they had a lose lose situation going on. Every social page they've ever had was overrun with idiots who didnt play, paint or buy anything from GW anymore whos sole existence was to just poo poo on every announcement and bitch and whinge until the thing was inevitably deleted. We get it--You really don't like seeing people complain about Games Workshop, and I get that you'd rather see content in say, this thread, but it hardly means that their concerns are illegitimate. And it's far more likely that GW shut down those pages so they wouldn't have to pay a community manager, not because it would cut down on any kind of negative feedback--those people will complain elsewhere, just as loudly. It will probably negatively impact future growth though, since it removes what was essentially a very cheap channel for advertising, which is pretty important when the only channels they appear to currently have are White Dwarf, which you can't subscribe to, their website, which is awful, and internet rumor sites, where they can't control the content or message.
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Jun 9, 2014 15:50
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CyberLord XP posted:Wait, how? By forgetting that they actually can't and instead setting them on a hilariously fire-drawing charge around the back of the tank to take out the infantry lurking behind it while other units busted the Raider instead. I am very rusty with orks. EDIT: That being said, they're great to stick in a *orkanaut for various purposes. Goat Bouillabaise fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 16:03
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Cataphract posted:I've mentioned a number. But the big ones, both have large market share, relatively elastic demand for product and don't compete on price. Leading to trade practices that seem odd when compared to traditional markets that deal with homogeneous products. Magic Similar to GW ------------- * Dominant market share, similar position to GW in that they created their own genre and thus have all the goodwill and market share that comes with it * Elastic demand * Certainly do not compete on price * Owned by publicly-traded company Dissimilar to GW ------------- * Massive social media presence including lead designers and VP's * Massive international organized play presence * Endless company-provided online content (only a small percentage of which is direct "buy this product now" advertising) * Strong relationships with third-party vendors, websites, and brick-and-mortar stores * Magazine discontinued before the turn of the century The position GW is in does not require them to engage in the practices that they do.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:09
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NTRabbit posted:The only hard plastic GW I have are Eldar, and they're honestly not anything to write home about You do know that those are, for the most part, donkeys years old yeah? Plastic Guardians and most of their vehicles were released 16 or more years ago.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:09
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Goat Bouillabaise posted:By forgetting that they actually can't and instead setting them on a hilariously fire-drawing charge around the back of the tank to take out the infantry lurking behind it while other units busted the Raider instead. So you had a great time with a new ork models, by playing incorrectly? Fair enough, it was an honest mistake, but hardly great evidence to show how great the new ork book is (could be)."
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Jun 9, 2014 16:10
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TheChirurgeon posted:We get it--You really don't like seeing people complain about Games Workshop, and I get that you'd rather see content in say, this thread, but it hardly means that their concerns are illegitimate. And it's far more likely that GW shut down those pages so they wouldn't have to pay a community manager, not because it would cut down on any kind of negative feedback--those people will complain elsewhere, just as loudly. It will probably negatively impact future growth though, since it removes what was essentially a very cheap channel for advertising, which is pretty important when the only channels they appear to currently have are White Dwarf, which you can't subscribe to, their website, which is awful, and internet rumor sites, where they can't control the content or message. If you genuinely think that the people who were commenting on an article about someone's armies on parade entry with such gems as 'It'd be nice if I could ever afford to have that collection.' and 'Finecash lololol' are worthwhile then you are being intentionally obtuse.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:12
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:You do know that those are, for the most part, donkeys years old yeah? Plastic Guardians and most of their vehicles were released 16 or more years ago. And don't forget these were contemporaries of those plastic Eldar: 
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Jun 9, 2014 16:12
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serious gaylord posted:I've always found it a bit interesting that Forgeworld get a pass on their prices because they're a 'luxury', despite the entire game being a 'luxury' to begin with. Sure but they have good customer service and the quality and price of sculpts (e.g. Krieg) are on par with similar kits like infinity, raging heroes, malifaux, or other "boutique" model lines that usually focus on a few character models. The only difference is that unlike other games you're still stuck using GW rules and army sizes. For playing warhams I wouldn't choose them because you're still paying $7-10 for hundreds of models but if you played a skirmish game they are decent at ~$100-150. Still, they are better to paint than chunky rear end marines and guardsmen. I only have mine cuz I used to volunteer for game days about 8 years ago and they used to give you $300 in store credit for compensation. I of course used it on forgeworld models since you could get GW stuff way cheaper. I did it for 3 or 4 years so I have an almost entirely forgeworld tau army if I ever got around to painting them again. It's even more ridiculous when you look at the price increases. I'm still in shock that when I reviewed the forgeworld model prices they are about the same as they were 8 years ago while GW prices have gone up. There's really no reason now to get the ugly and boring anime battlesuits when you can get the nicer forgeworld versions. This is a long bad post about warhams and even worse I used it to defend some models I didn't even pay for besides working for a few hours. Now I'm wondering which of the old EOT guys are still around. I see Sulecrist post but I miss huge human being
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Jun 9, 2014 16:13
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Indolent Bastard posted:So you had a great time with a new ork models, by playing incorrectly? Fair enough, it was an honest mistake, but hardly great evidence to show how great the new ork book is (could be)." Fair enough re: codex, but I wasn't saying anything about it, just the new units and that they were fun. I suppose I should have said 'unless the new codex louses them up', but I figured at the moment that was a given.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:14
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SRM posted:Yeah, they don't compare to new stuff. The Dark Eldar that came out a few years ago are leaps and bounds better, and their sculpts aren't old enough to drive. It's might seem surprising that most of the old Eldar plastics still hold up, but, well, Jes Goodwin. I see no problem with those Catachans.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:15
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serious gaylord posted:If you genuinely think that the people who were commenting on an article about someone's armies on parade entry with such gems as 'It'd be nice if I could ever afford to have that collection.' and 'Finecash lololol' are worthwhile then you are being intentionally obtuse. Again, like I just said, in the post that you quoted an exerpt from, having an article does not mean enabling comments or allowing feedback (see also: Wizards' daily content). Who's being obtuse here? Also negative comments do not destroy the content--millions of people enjoy content on YouTube and it has what may be the most toxic comment culture on the internet. Movie studios and Game companies regularly post content on YouTube with comments enabled and do not worry about the comments, because most people will look at the content and ignore the comments, or will be primarily influenced by the content. Though again, you can--*gasp!*--turn off comments on videos if you prefer. TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 16:22
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serious gaylord posted:I see no problem with those Catachans.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:29
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TheChirurgeon posted:Again, like I just said, in the post that you quoted an exerpt from, having an article does not mean enabling comments or allowing feedback (see also: Wizards daily content). Who's being obtuse here? GW post youtube videos with commenting disabled. This led to people going on their facebook and bitching about not being able to comment on a youtube video, often in some totally unrelated post just because that was at the top of their page. I distinctly remember a facebook post just linking to their daily blog, which featured some guys Grey Knight army, not a staff member, just someone who sent in some pictures, having 400+ comments after a poo poo flinging match started over the price of the Stormravens he had. My point against you was that you seemed to think every comment is worthwhile. My point was that it got to the stage on the GW facebook page where you had a group of people whos entire intention was not to actually discuss anything, but try to derail any post into price/finecast chat. That was probably a major reason why it was nixed. Their pages served no purpose anymore.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:32
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:You do know that those are, for the most part, donkeys years old yeah? Plastic Guardians and most of their vehicles were released 16 or more years ago. I know they're old, which is why I'm more inclined to say that GWs quality varies amonst its catalogue as much as any other company. There seem to be a lot of other companies, albeit smaller ones with smaller catalogues, that match or exceed them in quality with individual minis. A bit disingenuous to continue to insist they make the best when it's not really the case anymore.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:32
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Chill la Chill posted:Sure but they have good customer service One thing you really can't complain about with regards to GW is their customer service. They regularly send out entire new kits to replace a single missing or broken part, no questions asked.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:34
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serious gaylord posted:GW post youtube videos with commenting disabled. This led to people going on their facebook and bitching about not being able to comment on a youtube video, often in some totally unrelated post just because that was at the top of their page. I distinctly remember a facebook post just linking to their daily blog, which featured some guys Grey Knight army, not a staff member, just someone who sent in some pictures, having 400+ comments after a poo poo flinging match started over the price of the Stormravens he had. No, I don't think every comment is worthwhile, just like I said in my post that you didn't read. My exact words around comments and feedback were "the bulk of which will be worthless outside of a market research context." But OH poo poo--someone might post a negative comment to an article/post/video! Quick, someone tell Microsoft/EA/Sony/Nintendo/Wizards of the Coast to take down their social pages before having them does more harm than good! That big thread about the Xbox One's resolution issues will kills sales! Those comments about Nintendo being a console for babies will destroy their brand! That super-toxic discussion about Mythic rarities turning Magic into Yu-Gi-Oh will turn away anyone who would play the game! Why do these large successful brands even bother?! How will I ever enjoy content or previews from these companies now?
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Jun 9, 2014 16:38
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NTRabbit posted:I know they're old, which is why I'm more inclined to say that GWs quality varies amonst its catalogue as much as any other company. There seem to be a lot of other companies, albeit smaller ones with smaller catalogues, that match or exceed them in quality with individual minis. A bit disingenuous to continue to insist they make the best when it's not really the case anymore. Please feel free to show examples of plastic wargame miniatures made to a better standard than GW ones.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:42
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TheChirurgeon posted:No, I don't think every comment is worthwhile, just like I said in my post that you didn't read. My exact words around comments and feedback were "the bulk of which will be worthless outside of a market research context." I would point out that WoTC actually killed all posts in regards to RA Salvatore because he got butt hurt about people ragging on his characters and writing. So it became a rule on their official forums that you couldn't discuss certain things (in particular the works of RA Salvatore). Not sure if this is still the situation - but it was for quite awhile. Lungboy posted:One thing you really can't complain about with regards to GW is their customer service. They regularly send out entire new kits to replace a single missing or broken part, no questions asked. I would go so far as to call their Customer Service "World Class". I have NEVER had a problem with their Customer Service dept or Forge Worlds for that matter. Also many people don't know this - but if you are having problems assembling a Forge World Model - you can call (or write) them and ask for assistance and they will walk you through issues you might have...
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Jun 9, 2014 16:42
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That's pretty funny. Salvatore makes Nick Kyme look like Shakespeare.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:44
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:That's pretty funny. Salvatore makes Nick Kyme look like Shakespeare. I actually quite enjoyed the RA Salvatore stuff when I was younger... but eventually I got tired of the super hero complex he has where no character ever stays dead.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:44
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Cataphract posted:It's a hype campaign. They're trying to get people excited for orks over the month rather than blowing their load in one go. It's their equivalent of a trailer Agreed. It's really all about trying to get people excited about what is coming... SOON.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:47
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:That's pretty funny. Salvatore makes Nick Kyme look like Shakespeare. Surely you jest?!
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Jun 9, 2014 16:48
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Two Feet From Bread posted:
This hasn't gone up on SA Mart yet has it? There's a couple things in here I want but haven't been able to find a post yet.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:49
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TheChirurgeon posted:No, I don't think every comment is worthwhile, just like I said in my post that you didn't read. My exact words around comments and feedback were "the bulk of which will be worthless outside of a market research context." You're utterly failing to grasp the point I'm making. GW felt that their facebook pages were pointless, due in large part to the fact they were constantly hijacked by dick wads. They then removed these pages as they didnt feel it was worth the hassle of managing them. Clearly bigger companies have the budget to do this. But please, continue to add hyperbole because someone on the internet doesn't agree with you.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:50
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serious gaylord posted:I see no problem with those Catachans.  He sees all your problems!! NTRabbit posted:I know they're old, which is why I'm more inclined to say that GWs quality varies amonst its catalogue as much as any other company. There seem to be a lot of other companies, albeit smaller ones with smaller catalogues, that match or exceed them in quality with individual minis. A bit disingenuous to continue to insist they make the best when it's not really the case anymore. The kits that they produce today are hands down the best plastic model kits I have seen. It's disingenuous to compare something GW designed 16 years ago and hold it up against the current products of another company. Resin and metal is another matter and you can definitely draw comparisons there; But plastic kits, GW outclasses the rest.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:50
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Chill la Chill posted:This is a long bad post about warhams and even worse I used it to defend some models I didn't even pay for besides working for a few hours. Now I'm wondering which of the old EOT guys are still around. I see Sulecrist post but I miss huge human being Hey who were you? I'm still facebook friends with a fair number of SDW/EoW people but I'm not sure who still plays. I took a break for like six years but I back playing a lot of Kill Team and Zone Mortalis stuff. I know a few of us got into Warmachine; that's the first place I went after leaving the hobby completely until ~2011. I'm sure other Dub people are still posting in here but our names changed so many times that I don't remember who's who. I can't even remember my own names (I think I was Problems With Poop! or toot toot im a kroot at the end).
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Jun 9, 2014 16:51
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Sulecrist posted:Hey who were you? I'm still facebook friends with a fair number of SDW/EoW people but I'm not sure who still plays. I took a break for like six years but I back playing a lot of Kill Team and Zone Mortalis stuff. I know a few of us got into Warmachine; that's the first place I went after leaving the hobby completely until ~2011. I'm sure other Dub people are still posting in here but our names changed so many times that I don't remember who's who. I can't even remember my own names (I think I was Problems With Poop! or toot toot im a kroot at the end). Fox of stone but I got this sweet name change. I took you off fb a while back cuz we stopped talking but I could add if you want. I remember being all gay for tau and being shunned by it - never did get my gay tau fanart but that's ok they're all sob now I mostly play x-wing minis now as I get back to painting but I will prob start painting animes again when I can freehand diamonds again
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Jun 9, 2014 16:56
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To me those old Catachans are the level you see from a lot of modern companies who are moving into plastics. The other end of the spectrum is stuff like Malifaux, where the casting is pretty good but there's a large degree of "this was clearly designed on computer" low detail, and inexcusably fragile elements.Ghost Hand posted:I actually quite enjoyed the RA Salvatore stuff when I was younger... but eventually I got tired of the super hero complex he has where no character ever stays dead. I used to love the Battletech books, adored them as a young teenager. Never ever go back and re-read the stuff you liked then. :( Lungboy posted:Surely you jest?! I'd actually say it's about the same level of technically inept fan fiction drivel from the little I read of Salvatore before deciding that D&D fiction could go and piss up a rope.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:59
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serious gaylord posted:I dont think its negatively impacted how many people buy their stuff, and an argument could be made that its helped them by removing the cancerous monkeys so it does actually make sense from their point of view. It might not be impacting their current sales, but I think you can make a strong argument it affects their future ones. GW is popular and all, but that doesn't mean they can't benefit from additional publicity and information distribution to folks, and currently they are pretty lacking in that department. For players deep in the hobby keeping up with things isn't hard, but for folks more on the periphery the blackout on info GW tends to maintain can make it very difficult to keep current with what is going on. Ghost Hand posted:I would point out that WoTC actually killed all posts in regards to RA Salvatore because he got butt hurt about people ragging on his characters and writing. So it became a rule on their official forums that you couldn't discuss certain things (in particular the works of RA Salvatore). Not sure if this is still the situation - but it was for quite awhile. As amusing as this is, I don't think banning a particularly-contentious topic of discussion is the same thing as shutting down your entire message board/etc. I mean, SA has plenty of banned topics and even this very thread has a couple unique to it that are pretty well-known just to cause tons and tons of shitposting; avoiding those is more a matter of common sense than anything else.
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Jun 9, 2014 17:00
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Ghost Hand posted:This hasn't gone up on SA Mart yet has it? There's a couple things in here I want but haven't been able to find a post yet. I'm just sitting at my desk refreshing the page about once a minute. I'm actually not leaving to go get lunch because I'm afraid I'll miss it and thus miss the precious 2-3 minute window before everything good is gone. So hungry. 
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Jun 9, 2014 17:02
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Make like a Roman, eat your mouse.
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Jun 9, 2014 17:03
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Please feel free to show examples of plastic wargame miniatures made to a better standard than GW ones. Dreadmforge is the obvious one, and I'm pretty sure there's some high quality historicals going around now, but that's not really my area.
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Jun 9, 2014 17:09
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AbusePuppy posted:It might not be impacting their current sales, but I think you can make a strong argument it affects their future ones. GW is popular and all, but that doesn't mean they can't benefit from additional publicity and information distribution to folks, and currently they are pretty lacking in that department. For players deep in the hobby keeping up with things isn't hard, but for folks more on the periphery the blackout on info GW tends to maintain can make it very difficult to keep current with what is going on. I'm curious to know how GW ropes in the 12-14 year olds nowadays. When I was a kid it was a combination of playing heroquest and battlemasters and then visiting a pretty vibrant store in my local mall and realising they were all connected plus having friends at school who were into it. What is it now? There's no Milton Bradley tie in board games, most of the GW stores have moved out of malls. Is it the video games? Or is it somehow some kind of father, son thing? Here you are Timmy, I used to have space marines when I was your age.
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Jun 9, 2014 17:10
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:I used to love the Battletech books, adored them as a young teenager. Never ever go back and re-read the stuff you liked then. Funny you should mention that, I just busted out my Battletech anniversary kit last night to prep for a game this week and have been dorking out over the lovely fiction. And you want to talk about bad plastics? Yeesh!
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Jun 9, 2014 17:12
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PierreTheMime posted:I'm just sitting at my desk refreshing the page about once a minute. I'm actually not leaving to go get lunch because I'm afraid I'll miss it and thus miss the precious 2-3 minute window before everything good is gone. It says 5PM central in the post.
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Jun 9, 2014 17:12
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NTRabbit posted:Dreadmforge is the obvious one, and I'm pretty sure there's some high quality historicals going around now, but that's not really my area. Victoria Lamb does astounding work, but it's all resin and metal, no plastic yet. Even then, I'd compare her stuff more to the Perry Bros' metal IG ranges from the mid 90s, which are still excellent models. Dreamforge is very computer-designed looking stuff but not bad. Wargames Factory is starting to get there, but their older models looked like greasy poops. I haven't picked up any of the Perry Bros' plastic historicals, but I'd assume they're about as good as anything they've done for GW - those guys know what they're doing. Cataphract posted:I'm curious to know how GW ropes in the 12-14 year olds nowadays. When I was a kid it was a combination of playing heroquest and battlemasters and then visiting a pretty vibrant store in my local mall and realising they were all connected plus having friends at school who were into it. E: I don't know how any teenager can't become a Warham after the intro to that game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtAH7kGEqic SRM fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 17:13
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Fix posted:Funny you should mention that, I just busted out my Battletech anniversary kit last night to prep for a game this week and have been dorking out over the lovely fiction. Hey, the multiparts are at least mediocre!
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